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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- hmm figured there would've been a discussion thread for this movie already, oh well. Just watched this for the second time early this morning after I came across an exquisitely released copy from THORA (Commentary track!), and this time around I had some lingering thoughts that I might as well put down so they'll get out of my head. By and large I thought it was an excellent movie. It was paced perfectly for having a fairly long run-time, with nearly every scene at least serving some purpose, whether it was the advancement of the Space Force's goal to successfully launch the rocket, or Shiro's own development from a slacker nobody to the determined pilot he becomes over the course of the movie. Even some of the more filler-ish elements of the movie (like those with Riquinni and Manna) seemed to bolster Shiro's development, though in more subtle ways I believe. But aside from that the animation was gorgeous and multilayered, the side characters were light on development but engaging, and the music largely felt out of place and distracting, a sentiment that seems to be fairly unanimous from what I've read on. Some scenes I liked or ones that stuck out: Shiro and Riquinni's last scene together in the movie was nice; may be a bit cliche perhaps but I really like the way it didn't delve into anything melodramatic, just, "I gotta go..." and, "Come back soon." No sadness, no nothing, and that really stayed with me. And how Shiro was about to say something to her, and you almost believe it's going to be something all romantic ... but nope. He stops himself. And I think it was right there that I decided that there wasn't really any romantic connection between Riquinni and Shiro, or at least in the traditional sense. That scene between them also stood out (you'll probably know what I'm talking about if you've seen it) as well. But it is not really the moment in question that sticks with me, it's the conversation that happens the next day. Where Shiro goes to apologize and try to do all that stuff you'd expect to happen. But Riquinni apologizes to him instead. It was a very interesting moment on her character, and I'm itching to watch it again with the commentary on to see what GAINAX was going with it. And then there was Shiro's monologue at the very end of the movie. Felt very reminiscent of Charlie Chaplin's moment at the end of The Great Dictator; not necessarily the topic raised, but more of the nature of the speech, that plea for humanity. There's more I could blab on about moments I liked in Honneamise, but I'll leave it at that ... except that perhaps, just perhaps, this movie is underrated. But different tastes suit different people, so I'm not going to stress that in the slightest. |
KinetaJan 11, 2013 5:50 PM
| The scene that stuck out to me was the part when the rocket shot launched and how the soldiers stopped fighting to watch it. and when the rocket flew above the fighting planes |
| It was a fantastic movie. It was just a pleasure to watch the Blu Ray version of it. The opening and ending scenes could have been better and more polished (evolution of civilization). However, the stunning animation and realistic characters show how amazing animation can be when used as a vehicle for story telling. |
arimakenshin said: It was a fantastic movie. It was just a pleasure to watch the Blu Ray version of it. The opening and ending scenes could have been better and more polished (evolution of civilization). However, the stunning animation and realistic characters show how amazing animation can be when used as a vehicle for story telling. A Blu-ray version? =0 I think I found the next thing I need to pick up. I haven't seen this movie for years. Simply a great story. |
| Speechless, incredible movie, really deep and intense, really shows the dark side of man and humanity, because evil exists no one is pure good. The art is stunning, better than some of today's standards. This movies doesn't get a 10 from me because it has a rather slow start and it felt a little long, but it develops into an amazing story. |
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| I liked Honneamise a lot too. One thing I dont get though, did it have any actual religious meaning, or was all the talk about humanity being "shameful" and creationism just because the director thought it was "cool" like in Evangelion? Also what was the overall message?l |
| I heard some people complain about the 'pro-religious' element in the movie, but to be honest I dont think it was intended that way. Its not that the movie is advertising religion or supporting it; its only trying to portray the idea of how we have screwed up everything from the beginning of history and how we still haven't learned the lessons, despite making huge strides in technology and gaining vast amount of knowledge we haven't changed very much. Or at least that's my interpretation. I liked how the movie ended on a hopeful note. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| I enjoyed many parts of this movie, but there were also some strange and questionable parts too. Taking into consideration when it was made, the animation was really nice and fluid for the most part, especially in key/climactic scenes. While at first the character designs were a bit off to me, I ended up really liking them. Facial expressions were conveyed really well. Another factor that let me enjoy this as much as I did was the comedy in this movie. Some of the scenes or lines were just ridiculously funny! 8/10 |
p r o f i l e 👀 |
| I don't know how anyone can say the animation was bad. Are your eyes broken, or are you making the mistake of associating modern fashions with quality? This movie was so cynical that I think eyerok's interpretation of the religious element could be right. I'd like to imagine the movie was a bit more nuanced than that, but to be honest I have no clue where they were going with the religious element. That, and the music, stood out like a sore thumb. Lots of really stand out scenes though. I loved the way the camerawork was reminiscent of classic cinema rather than anime; doing that I think distanced the viewer a bit and allowed him space to interpret it a bit more. The pencil artwork at the beginning and end was amazing. |
| “Money can't buy dere” |
| Thou shalt not leave my hard drive. |
| Couldn't make it past 70ish minutes, it looks great for its age but was boring the hell out of me. (inb4 "go watch a Michael Bay film" - I like slow drama and rarely ever drop feature films...) It set up its plot terribly, it feels totally directionless and I've watched long enough to expect it to have grabbed me with something by now. (The launch might provoke a war? Promising.. oh wait we've gone back to the mute kid yet again... obviously more important plotwise) I'm guessing it pulls out something special near the end to justify the rave reviews but no wonder it flopped... |
Blackouting said: Couldn't make it past 70ish minutes, it looks great for its age but was boring the hell out of me. (inb4 "go watch a Michael Bay film" - I like slow drama and rarely ever drop feature films...) It set up its plot terribly, it feels totally directionless and I've watched long enough to expect it to have grabbed me with something by now. (The launch might provoke a war? Promising.. oh wait we've gone back to the mute kid yet again... obviously more important plotwise) I'm guessing it pulls out something special near the end to justify the rave reviews but no wonder it flopped... ^ exactly my thoughts except i got past 90% of it plus, it's just not my cup of tea |
| I think the sequel will tell how Royal Space Force change everything especially in weapon technology Look at the jetfighter, in Honneamise they still use vane-based power but in aoki uru (based from promo art) the fighter use rocket for movie itself is little boring but i like the animation, is really detailed can't wait to see aoki uru |
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| I saw this movie on TV back around 1999 or so. While it looks nice, and has a decent art style, it is one of the most boring things I've ever seen in my life. I did not enjoy it at all. |
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| He tried to rape a girl and she said sorry for stopping him.. .. |
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ExTamplier said: He tried to rape a girl and she said sorry for stopping him.. .. That was the point I think. The movie does a tremendous job at showing the dualistic nature of mankind. |
koreye said: I heard some people complain about the 'pro-religious' element in the movie, but to be honest I dont think it was intended that way. Its not that the movie is advertising religion or supporting it; its only trying to portray the idea of how we have screwed up everything from the beginning of history and how we still haven't learned the lessons, despite making huge strides in technology and gaining vast amount of knowledge we haven't changed very much. Or at least that's my interpretation. I liked how the movie ended on a hopeful note. This. Man rewatching this after all these years was sure something,really inspirational movie,I can see why it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea but I really liked it.And the artwork,animation and backgrounds were really great. I feel like this movie is a personal embassy from the crew at Gainax to each and everyone of us.The world it takes place in is actually very similar to our own.All the themes of politics,social struggles and religion are ,sadly, as relevant as ever in our world.A fight between the advancment of sciene against our own stupidity and everything that comes with it is also quite relevant huh?Even if we have developed rockets,we are still fighting and screwing up because of the most stupid reasons,almost without noticing how pitty and tragic that all is.And it's not like our protagonist are flawless saints,no,they are flawed humans themselves but even so,they do what they need to do.You really see the groundwork for all later Gainax anime by establishing their themes and identiy,while helping the medium to grow as a whole.It's also worthy taking a look at the time it was made in and in what state "the society" was back then.I used to watched it with my dad and he saw a different story.Maybe there is a generation gap?Idk but I have a lot of respect for this movie. The ending speech felt similar to Charlie Chaplin's in the Great Dictator. "Can anyone hear me? I'm the first man in space. If you look up, well, maybe you'll see it. Or at least please listen. We've left the oceans and climbed above the mountains. I'm flying. We've found the untouched realm of God. You have to look now it's your only chance. Nothing is here yet, not even air or water to ruin. Soon the next man will follow to touch it, and another, and in all the rush we may again destroy it. Maybe our killing comes from the madness of being confined? Please listen! There's no more reason to kill because we don't have any more borders now! Can anyone hear me? If you can hear me, then pray. The humblest of all things, the most noble. Pray for each step you take. Make a path that's safe so those who follow shall never stumble. Dear God, please give us your mercy. Mercy for we are lost. Forgive the irresponsible, the trivial men who beg you from the dark for the forgiveness of your light." |
_HeroKenzan_Jul 21, 2015 6:54 AM
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| I got kinda bored of this movie tbh, only after the assassination attempts and towards the end it got me interested a bit more. Still solid movie nonetheless. 7/10. |
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| A rewatch after some 5 or 6 years confirmed that is a great and unappreciated film in the anime community. Ambitious, driven with beautiful animation and some deep, yet subtle characterization. Every frame is incredibly detailed. The ending more than makes up for a slow start. It's incredible to believe that this was Gainax's first real work. The sheer audacity to do something on this scale for your first work is ...well Gainax. About the only thing I really don't like about the film is the music which is a surprise since it's by Ryuichi Sakamoto who I really like, specially his Yellow Magic Orchestra period. They should have used the music from the trailers instead. Amazing use of Polovetsian Dances. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| Incredibile movie. Some scenes were really intense, whereas some others were bizarre in a good way. I hated that kid That Akira-like animation 9/10 |
| That was horrible. There was no clear overall thematic message; the characters weren't developed meaningfully; and the plot was wholly unsatisfying without this support (not to mention some questionable developments, such as the attempted rape). Even the religious elements contained some very questionable ideas. The message was condemnation and despair; very messed up. If all of that wasn't enough, it was terribly boring too. I thought about dropping half-way through, and it actually became slightly worse in the second half. |
| For those confused about the significance of 'that scene' here's an article that I found that explains it. https://sketchesandscratches.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/the-wings-of-honneamise-and-that-scene/ I feel it's a very good explanation of the scene, and why it's important. |
doodlemancy said: Just... c'mon. If you're gonna do a weird rapey thing at least address it properly. But I think I may be expecting too much from 1987. In my opinion it was adressed/shown quite properly. A woman in a war-torn country, half brainwashed by a religious cult with terrorconections feels remorse because she fought off the rapeattempt from a man who was helpful and nice before that. Its tragic and grim, yes, but quite realistic. What you make off it is what counts. |
| (First I have to admit I was totally expecting something different! Like space fighting or something ^^ But I was not disappointed.) wow the major part was very calm so the action in the end took me by surprise. I think its quite a nice movie, with different ways to interprete the "message". The art was nice, but the OST felt rather lacking, something really unusual for older movies imo. Would have wished to see more about Riquinni, what she was doing, how she got religious and where she met manna. I think they would had the time, its quite a long movie after all. But overall I think Gainax did a great job with this as one of their first big projects. What really amazes me is the amount of detail they put in. Like all the little changes, from clothes over the currency to the invaders language. There was no real need for it, but it was nice to have. Speaking of no need for it, "that scene" was quite surprising. I wonder what the intention behind this was. maybe showing us how different people can act? (Thx for the article above btw, I was thinking the same about the way she got her money. In fact I exactly "interpreted" it the same. Considering I was not the only one, I might even rewatch it and see if my theory still makes sense) Actually this movie was quite motivational. As in everything serves a purpose, through Riquinni Shirotsugh found faith in his job and became one if its biggest "fans". And then the harsh reality kicks in. Is spending that much money necessary? Forcing a war? I have the feeling in the end when he was up there, he was not sure himself. He just wanted to do it, because else everything so far would have been a waste. Yes, one could say it was "boring" to watch. And I hardly doubt I would rewatch it anytime soon. But Im glad that I picked up one of Gainax first works. So maybe my rating is a bit off with 8/10, but this movie is now nearly 30 years old. PS: Just noticed, this is actually my 200th completed entry. Quite fitting. Now just for the spirit of it, I really hope Gainax will release the sequel. Even if the story will probably have nothing to do with this, but I would love to see how they handle it. After putting some more thoughts into this. Its a freaking amazing movie. Not just shows it perfectly what Gainax is and can do, it also is a masterpiece on its own. definitely something worth to buy. (30 years after its release.. yeah) |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| A masterpiece. And the only thing worthwhile Gainax has ever made. |
| I really enjoyed the art and direction of this film and it still holds up remarkably even today, but I can agree with others that the assault scene really did feel out of place and felt somewhat passed over in terms of character/plot development. It made it really hard to sympathise or care for Lhadatt after that point, I was half expecting him to die during takeoff... The ending really was spectacular though, it's just a shame as they ruined quite a likeable character up until that point for me. The subject really could have been explored differently. |
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| Well this sure was quite a movie! Firstly I am quite amazed by the overall quality in terms of animation and visuals from a movie from 1987! That together with a pretty decent story and while average still quite interesting characters, I must say that I quite liked this movie as a whole! There were obviously some minor points in the story, but in general I really loved it! |
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| The post linked above by LancimusPrime is a must-read. https://sketchesandscratches.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/the-wings-of-honneamise-and-that-scene/ This comment seems right to me: James Wood said: It's important to remember that we are shown very clearly what Riquinni does during the day. She works as a day laborer in the fields, gathering wheat. She probably does other odd jobs as well. I am not saying that it is impossible that she is also prostituting herself – that is one possible interpretation, but unsupported by the framing of the movie. However, I think the more reasonable explanation is that she does honest work. If she were really a prostitute, I doubt she would have been portrayed having that look of fear and horror as Shiro is on top of her. You are spot on about Shiro’s conclusions, upon seeing the money. He resents her apparent hypocrisy, and even rejects the food she offers him, until the bitterness culminates in the dreaded scene. When he sees the horror on her face though, he not only realises what he is doing, but also realises the possibility that he was horribly wrong. For a current real-world comparison to the central open-ended dilemma in the film, see India's space program. http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2017/03/why_india_is_investing_in_space.html Balaji Viswanathan: "It is the poor who need innovation the most. The rich can survive with their wealth, not the poor. Poverty can only be broken by out of the box innovation." https://www.quora.com/Is-spending-tons-of-money-on-space-research-projects-regarding-life-on-other-planets-justified-when-on-the-other-hand-India-is-a-poor-country/answer/Balaji-Viswanathan-2 Vijayendra Mohanty said: But poverty vs space exploration is a false choice. India's space program has actually helped the country's prime concerns in many ways. Some of India's poorest districts owe their primary schools to ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation). Some tribal villages are simply too remote to have education establishments in. India's EDUSAT program (educational satellites) has enabled beaming of the government's UGC education channel to the children of these villages. The school has a TV set. That does it. Also, satellites have been put in geostationary orbits that scan India's geography for mineral deposits. These deposits when mined, provide employment to entire villages for years. Similarly, weather monitoring satellites have helped streamline agricultural endeavours and government agencies advise farmers regarding crop seasons based on the estimated dates for the arrival of monsoons. These satellites are also a big help when it comes to storm warnings in coastal regions. -from https://www.quora.com/Is-spending-tons-of-money-on-space-research-projects-regarding-life-on-other-planets-justified-when-on-the-other-hand-India-is-a-poor-country/answer/Vijayendra-Mohanty |
| what a total dissapointment |
| :v |
| A slow, intimist and with a good vein of religiosity. It is not for everyone, the narration can be difficult for even the slowness, but reading between the lines can say many things, in addition to what you see on the surface. The prop design is very special and the quality of the drawings and the backdrops is high. The atmosphere is almost always gloomy and contrasts with the frivolous and joyous soundtrack. 8/10 |
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| I will make mine this dude's words: Maybe it was revolutionary but most of its features are outdated, the plot and cast was far from exploring really well the theme, which I though was really interesting, that almost rape scene was SHIT, same for the consequences and that ending!! You just dont end it there. For everything else good about this movie I will give it a 8.4/10 = 8 I would reccomend people to watch this and Akira so they can get a sense of history and see how far the genre as storytelling medium as come to, but that is it. RafaelDeJongh said: Well this sure was quite a movie! Firstly I am quite amazed by the overall quality in terms of animation and visuals from a movie from 1987! That together with a pretty decent story and while average still quite interesting characters, I must say that I quite liked this movie as a whole! There were obviously some minor points in the story, but in general I really loved it! For all the mess Akira movie plot was vs the source, the animation was really something, I m not calling this one bad, but Akira has even much better smoothness and detail to each and every movement. |
PlaycoolOct 20, 2018 12:06 PM
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| Mmh... looks like my message was deleted... It's living ! Only problem: the music score by Sakamoto Ryûichi. While reminiscent of his work on "Mr.Lawrence" at times, it rarely feels "in touch" with the movie and is a rather poor delivery. At least, its use is often very discret. Score: 10/10 Enjoyment: 5/5 edit: an article about the soundtrack, https://karageko.com/2018/12/16/music-into-another-world-royal-space-force-the-wings-of-honneamise/ June 20, 2019 @Radnitzky1890 Why did you laugh? Because of the "masterpiece" part or what comes after? |
Rei_IIIJun 20, 2019 9:31 AM
| It was too long and rather boring most of the time, but the ending was solid. None of the characters were that likeable or interesting to me, thus I barely cared what was happening. The animation and visuals were noteworthy, though. An average movie overall I'd say. I see nothing special about it besides being one of Gainax's first works. |
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| I liked it much better the 2nd time around. The story feels aimless at first because the protagonist is aimless. The things that make the story interesting are probably things that go over people's heads if they're not interested in history, corruption and politics. |
domko said: A masterpiece. And the only thing worthwhile Gainax has ever made. Thanks for the good laugh |
| The movie turned out not how I expected, but it was pretty nice. The artwork (especially the backgrounds) are absolutely superb and very well detailed, I just love how all these old anime movies have incredibly detailed mechanisms, even if it's not necessary per se. Shows how much dedication the animators have for their work. The story was pretty good too, with strong anti-war themes and the motive of distrust for the government, given that both governments were doing really shady things there. Although I felt that sometimes the pacing could've been better. I expected Shiro to return to Earth at the end of the movie in order to meet Riquinni again, but... whatever. The ending was pretty good on its own. Honneamise reminded my of the latest Miyazaki movie, "The Wind Rises". They have a lot in common, if you think about it. Similar anti-war themes, a moral dilemma that the main character faces (Should I pilot this ridiculously expensive rocket when there're so many poor people out there? Should I build the airplanes I like, even though they will be used for war?), and a woman that inspires the main hero to develop. Maybe Miyazaki took some ideas from this movie. In the end, he's a friend of Hideaki Anno, who played the main character in his film, so they might've discussed some of the older Gainax projects like Honneamise. At least I'd like to believe in that. |
St0rmbladeJul 8, 2019 7:00 AM
"Someone recognises this guy's necessity, so he's here. If the need for him were to disappear, then so would he." |
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| great movie. all the characters were interesting, and their developments felt natural and pure. how Hiroyuki Yamaga directed that "simple" story was amazing. liked how he presented the nature of human emotions in it, making it real and genuine. art was perfect for me and the music was refreshing and different in a good way, sometimes felt kinda like a video game soundtrack. would have preferred a better ending, like Lhadatt arriving back on earth and everyone greeting him etc. (which apparently happens in the credits, but is drawn not animated)... but it was a decent finale with Riquinni at the end, another character that I liked. underrated movie, gonna be re-watching this gem a couple of times. |
| That was... weird. I liked how different it was in some aspects, like how it was about the start of space travel with a cyberpunk edge and how the soldiers looked up at the rocket as it took off, but the thing with the enemy soldiers kinda felt forced for the sake of having a climactic end, the message at the end (and in some parts of the story like with the rape scene) was sorta confusing (yay religion), it would've been nice to have more closure on the romance subplot, and overall it just felt like it could've had a cleaner execution (especially with the themes, specifically religion, and even more specifically at the end. It would've been cool to see him start to recite the speech he had practised earlier before transitioning into his true feelings. Also I sorta get why they made it unclear whether anyone from Earth was listening, but logically they would be). I think the world could've been explained a little better too, but that's just my opinion. Overall it was an alright watch, and as I consider the themes more my score may change (lower if anything), but for now 7/10. |
TheFlyingOrangeMar 17, 2020 7:01 PM
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| Ah, Space Force. Feels like watching Space Odyssey for some reason. |
| . |
| That was a nice story; a lot of small dark scenes scattered throughout the movie, but the ending is made in a way that ties the story up in a more hopeful light. Watching movies like this sure makes me miss the old charm and character of anime. |
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