Catalano said: @Pullman well, you're not wrong, you can be offended by anything if you have some inner demons. People should just accept media as it is and stop with the conspiracies. people need to realize that taking offense is their problem and they should figure it out themselves instead of trying to make the whole world bend around their psyche by making it everyone else's problem. That's really all there is to it imo. FMmatron said: CatSoul said: I've never understood all of this fuss over fictional stories when we've got real problems to deal with al around us. Some people love to ignore their actual problems, tho. I like to do that too but doing it by going out of your way to create even more problems (that often are just extensions of rl problems) for yourself in the realm of fiction which is supposed to distract you from the real problems is just stupid and counterproductive no matter how you look at it :> It's exactly why this stuff should be kept out of fiction. It destroys its purpose as a method of escapism and distraction by shoehorning the exact same shit one doesn't want to deal with 24/7 into fiction so there's no way to not have to deal with that shit. The only people who profit from that are the ones who are already consumed by these conflicts and ideologies irl and can't stand it that not everyone cares about what they care about 24/7 so they invade all the areas where the majority of peopel go to relax and escape from these issues and shove them into their face against their will. Gaming, Movies, TV, Anime. It should be more about Us (as in the majority of people who don't want to deal with politics 24/7) vs Them (as in everyone who tries to force us to deal with it 24/7) but it ends up being more of the traditional right vs left crap, led by a minority on both sides who keep forcing those topics into these areas in efforts to 'recruit' the rest of us into becoming like them, 24/7 obsessed with political ideology. And it seems to be working tbh. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Savasvania said: Vecko said: God I fucking hate Social Justice Warriors. Fuck them and their PC culture. It's all virtue signaling. When you look deeper into their profiles you'll find contradictions, double standards and hypocrisy. Preach! Preach! Preach! This show will be become a hit from bad publicity just like Goblin Slayer and I'll be here giggling like the troll I am. You're happy that a bad series by a talentless author, that is only relevant due to deliberate shock factor, became succesfull? -.- |
Catalano said: @Pullman damn, you're so good. When I see you're posts on mal, my neurons become smarter. Ok op, end of thread. not sure if sarcasm tbh but thx? charlimit |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Really, out of the texts used as samples the only ones I could understand having issues with are Zac's, and particularly the second tweet, which by the wording doesn't seem like he's actually read the novel, yet he's talking about how the novel frames the moral of the story later on. Paul is talking about the hypocrisy and unclear standards on ethics and political agenda of Crunchyroll. Nick is just reacting very strongly against the first episode. On this discussion about getting offended or not: of course being offended is subjective, but that also means that we shouldn't dictate or restrict this emotional answer. On the author supposedly being a woman: check your sources. The author's gender is unknown. They have never confirmed it. |
CatSoul said: I've never understood all of this fuss over fictional stories when we've got real problems to deal with all around us. If an anime's subject matter puts you off, don't watch it. Oh, sadly that argument never works against them. Reason being : You can't use that as a valid defense for the anime. logic 10/10 as usual. It's criticism for the sake of criticism. |
| It's kinda ironic to see this NPC complaining about mysogynist MC, while completely ignoring countless misandric female characters. |
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Pullman said: Catalano said: @Pullman well, you're not wrong, you can be offended by anything if you have some inner demons. People should just accept media as it is and stop with the conspiracies. people need to realize that taking offense is their problem and they should figure it out themselves instead of trying to make the whole world bend around their psyche by making it everyone else's problem. That's really all there is to it imo. I like to do that too but doing it by going out of your way to create even more problems (that often are just extensions of rl problems) for yourself in the realm of fiction which is supposed to distract you from the real problems is just stupid and counterproductive no matter how you look at it :> It's exactly why this stuff should be kept out of fiction. It destroys its purpose as a method of escapism and distraction by shoehorning the exact same shit one doesn't want to deal with 24/7 into fiction so there's no way to not have to deal with that shit. The only people who profit from that are the ones who are already consumed by these conflicts and ideologies irl and can't stand it that not everyone cares about what they care about 24/7 so they invade all the areas where the majority of peopel go to relax and escape from these issues and shove them into their face against their will. Gaming, Movies, TV, Anime. It should be more about Us (as in the majority of people who don't want to deal with politics 24/7) vs Them (as in everyone who tries to force us to deal with it 24/7) but it ends up being more of the traditional right vs left crap, led by a minority on both sides who keep forcing those topics into these areas in efforts to 'recruit' the rest of us into becoming like them, 24/7 obsessed with political ideology. And it seems to be working tbh. Interesting perspective, I was always just symplifying it. My impression was that people are usually just pissed or frustrated in general and instead of working on themselves or their circumstamces they just go for the cheap and temporarily satisfying method, namely getting triggered over trivial stuff and complain about it whether it's related to them or not. They can blow of steam, but their situation remains unchanged. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
FMmatron said: Pullman said: people need to realize that taking offense is their problem and they should figure it out themselves instead of trying to make the whole world bend around their psyche by making it everyone else's problem. That's really all there is to it imo. I like to do that too but doing it by going out of your way to create even more problems (that often are just extensions of rl problems) for yourself in the realm of fiction which is supposed to distract you from the real problems is just stupid and counterproductive no matter how you look at it :> It's exactly why this stuff should be kept out of fiction. It destroys its purpose as a method of escapism and distraction by shoehorning the exact same shit one doesn't want to deal with 24/7 into fiction so there's no way to not have to deal with that shit. The only people who profit from that are the ones who are already consumed by these conflicts and ideologies irl and can't stand it that not everyone cares about what they care about 24/7 so they invade all the areas where the majority of peopel go to relax and escape from these issues and shove them into their face against their will. Gaming, Movies, TV, Anime. It should be more about Us (as in the majority of people who don't want to deal with politics 24/7) vs Them (as in everyone who tries to force us to deal with it 24/7) but it ends up being more of the traditional right vs left crap, led by a minority on both sides who keep forcing those topics into these areas in efforts to 'recruit' the rest of us into becoming like them, 24/7 obsessed with political ideology. And it seems to be working tbh. Interesting perspective, I was always just symplifying it. My impression was that people are usually just pissed or frustrated in general and instead of working on themselves or their circumstamces they just go for the cheap and temporarily satisfying method, namely getting triggered over trivial stuff and complain about it whether it's related to them or not. They can blow of steam, but their situation remains unchanged. You're probably not wrong, I'm sure some people do it for that reason. Others probably just do it because they like to generate shitstorms and like to see the world burn. At this point getting enraged by fiction is a large enough field to house many groups with different motivations for playing along with the trend. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: FMmatron said: Interesting perspective, I was always just symplifying it. My impression was that people are usually just pissed or frustrated in general and instead of working on themselves or their circumstamces they just go for the cheap and temporarily satisfying method, namely getting triggered over trivial stuff and complain about it whether it's related to them or not. They can blow of steam, but their situation remains unchanged. You're probably not wrong, I'm sure some people do it for that reason. Others probably just do it because they like to generate shitstorms and like to see the world burn. At this point getting enraged by fiction is a large enough field to house many groups with different motivations for playing along with the trend. Yeah, we shouldn't forget about trolls either(which create most likely the majority of these threads) Well whatever, it's their life, may they get happy :~D |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
It's an Isekai, so yes, it's trash. How is this news? |
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| maybe you should get off twitter with their shitty opinions, OP. saves you a lot of time, nerves and space for better threads here |
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| As the resident Shield Hero hater, yes, it is very "problematic". There is no shortage of the MC participating in casual misogyny and slavery. That being said, even if those elements didn't exist, the story would still be trash. Let's see... the MC is unlikable edgelord, generic game world isekai power fantasy plot, eventual pseudo-harem, everyone who isn't a waifu is either a jerk, a villain or unimportant. My biggest gripe with the story is that it feels like it only exists for the author to try to justify his persecution complex. Speaking as a LN reader here. |
NthDegreeJan 8, 2019 1:25 PM
| Yeah, the problem of current era is that everything is controversial. Nowadays, people complains to anime (or other media) for things such as women rights, rape, cultural diversity, and etc. It's hard to enjoy anime when it is bogged down with trends such as this. One of the more prominent example of this is that they changed Andromeda's gender (from Saint Seiya) to female just to satiate feminist around. What a joke, as they totally destroyed what makes Andromeda interesting and enjoyable as a character to begin with. Just my opinion though. |
| It's time to play the Game folks! |
Paul_Levesque said: Yeah, the problem of current era is that everything is controversial. Nowadays, people complains to anime (or other media) for things such as women rights, rape, cultural diversity, and etc. It's hard to enjoy anime when it is bogged down with trends such as this. I can't with this post. Controversies (and censorship, which so far hasn't and isn't likely to happen with Shield Hero) didn't just begin to exist in 2016 or something like that. You are just noticing now because these controversies affect your niches and opinions are more widespread thanks to the internet. |
| I can't comprehend in my head why people have to overexaggerate everything. SJWs would defend everything, but not because they actually want to defend something, but because they're attention seeking assholes that ruin creativity in fiction. I would have no problem with SJWs if they actually used all their energy on helping third world countries, instead of wasting energy on controlling entertainment. |
HenrikDK said: I can't comprehend in my head why people have to overexaggerate everything. SJWs would defend everything, but not because they actually want to defend something, but because they're attention seeking assholes that ruin creativity in fiction. I would have no problem with SJWs if they actually used all their energy on helping third world countries, instead of wasting energy on controlling entertainment. That would make some sense if you used the term to talk about those who form the staff of projects in the industry and are involved in its creative control, not to label every single analyst, reviewer or consumer with values and criticism that don't adjust to your own, which is literally what happens every time somebody mentions "SJW". Even then, it's kind of absurd to associate individual, franchise-related decisions to a single overall direction in the industry, but at least it would make more sense than being paranoid because some rando who writes stuff on the internet apparently wants to control entertainment. |
jal90 said: HenrikDK said: I can't comprehend in my head why people have to overexaggerate everything. SJWs would defend everything, but not because they actually want to defend something, but because they're attention seeking assholes that ruin creativity in fiction. I would have no problem with SJWs if they actually used all their energy on helping third world countries, instead of wasting energy on controlling entertainment. That would make some sense if you used the term to talk about those who form the staff of projects in the industry and are involved in its creative control, not to label every single analyst, reviewer or consumer with values and criticism that don't adjust to your own, which is literally what happens every time somebody mentions "SJW". Even then, it's kind of absurd to associate individual, franchise-related decisions to a single overall direction in the industry, but at least it would make more sense than being paranoid because some rando who writes stuff on the internet apparently wants to control entertainment. I think SJWs can have a big influence on companies that want to be seen in a good light. It happens all the time in mainstream entertainment. Not saying they have any influence is not true at all, you can find many examples in the movie and gaming industries where company decides to cater to the feminists and radical leftists instead of listening to their main consumer (BF5). |
Piromysl said: It's kinda ironic to see this NPC complaining about mysogynist MC, while completely ignoring countless misandric female characters. Actual misandry is very rare. Mostly what you're seeing is backfiring misogyny. For example, I'm guessing you're thinking of the 'violent tsundere girl' stereotype? I hate those types of characters. But they're misogynistic. It's deemed acceptable for a girl to hit a boy because girls are weak and boys are strong, so girls cannot hurt boys, and if a boy is hurt by a girl hitting them, it's funny, because they're being weak and not a proper boy. The girl thinks it's acceptable to hit the boy because she's internalised the misogynistic idea that girls can't hurt boys from the society she lives in. |
HenrikDK said: jal90 said: That would make some sense if you used the term to talk about those who form the staff of projects in the industry and are involved in its creative control, not to label every single analyst, reviewer or consumer with values and criticism that don't adjust to your own, which is literally what happens every time somebody mentions "SJW". Even then, it's kind of absurd to associate individual, franchise-related decisions to a single overall direction in the industry, but at least it would make more sense than being paranoid because some rando who writes stuff on the internet apparently wants to control entertainment. I think SJWs can have a big influence on companies that want to be seen in a good light. It happens all the time in mainstream entertainment. Not saying they have any influence is not true at all, you can find many examples in the movie and gaming industries where company decides to cater to the feminists and radical leftists instead of listening to their main consumer (BF5). Main consumer? Why do you think that the main consumer is you or the kind that shares your values? And you talk about others wanting to control entertainment? And if you want to mimic the "success" these so-called SJW have you can always do the same as they do, write opinions and analysis on the internet. |
jal90 said: HenrikDK said: I think SJWs can have a big influence on companies that want to be seen in a good light. It happens all the time in mainstream entertainment. Not saying they have any influence is not true at all, you can find many examples in the movie and gaming industries where company decides to cater to the feminists and radical leftists instead of listening to their main consumer (BF5). Main consumer? Why do you think that the main consumer is you or the kind that shares your values? And you talk about others wanting to control entertainment? And if you want to mimic the "success" these so-called SJW have you can always do the same as they do, write opinions and analysis on the internet. Yes i complain about these so-called SJW these types of people get triggered by essentially anything that doesn't fit in their bubble they often want every form of media to be "Politically correct" so they don't get triggered by it. I'm sorry if you're getting buthurt about my post. I'm just tired of this politically correct bullshit they want to push on people. I'm already tired of them ruining good game franchises, i'm not about to see them ruin my other form of entertainment. |
| everything’s problematic if people want to see it as such. that said, people really need to chill with their complaints about rape/violence - some people enjoy that, some people enjoy ‘[shows] for all the lgbt kids out there watching anime.’ |
AnimeFreak-San said: is this a male gender issure...human issue...mental illness perhaps? |
HenrikDK said: jal90 said: Main consumer? Why do you think that the main consumer is you or the kind that shares your values? And you talk about others wanting to control entertainment? And if you want to mimic the "success" these so-called SJW have you can always do the same as they do, write opinions and analysis on the internet. Yes i complain about these so-called SJW these types of people get triggered by essentially anything that doesn't fit in their bubble they often want every form of media to be "Politically correct" so they don't get triggered by it. I'm sorry if you're getting buthurt about my post. I'm just tired of this politically correct bullshit they want to push on people. I'm already tired of them ruining good game franchises, i'm not about to see them ruin my other form of entertainment. I'm not getting butthurt, you are the one who appears angry for some reason. And you still haven't tackled the whole issue that you could do the exact same these SJWs do instead of complaining. We'll leave the hypocrisy of "they want to control MY entertainment" for another occasion. |
jal90 said: HenrikDK said: Yes i complain about these so-called SJW these types of people get triggered by essentially anything that doesn't fit in their bubble they often want every form of media to be "Politically correct" so they don't get triggered by it. I'm sorry if you're getting buthurt about my post. I'm just tired of this politically correct bullshit they want to push on people. I'm already tired of them ruining good game franchises, i'm not about to see them ruin my other form of entertainment. I'm not getting butthurt, you are the one who appears angry for some reason. And you still haven't tackled the whole issue that you could do the exact same these SJWs do instead of complaining. We'll leave the hypocrisy of "they want to control MY entertainment" for another occasion. The reason for me being angry isn't related to you, i have no ill feelings for you. When i say MY form of entertainment it's taking out of context, it's meant as my form of enjoyment in my sparetime. In any of these post i have never said that own any of these media, i have only said that i'm annoyed that people write articles about issues that is non-existent calling people women hating induviduals or rapist for something as stupid as watching anime in their sparetime. I only stated that companies are getting influenced by these people. It wasn't meant to be a argument but only a outlet for my frustation on this topic. |
HenrikDK said: i'm not about to see them ruin my other form of entertainment. It's literally impossible to ruin isekai LN. Edit: Unless you mean anime and manga. But then why the fuck would anyone bother to defend the biggest cancer in the industry? |
Jin_uzukiJan 9, 2019 5:34 AM
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HenrikDK said: jal90 said: I'm not getting butthurt, you are the one who appears angry for some reason. And you still haven't tackled the whole issue that you could do the exact same these SJWs do instead of complaining. We'll leave the hypocrisy of "they want to control MY entertainment" for another occasion. The reason for me being angry isn't related to you, i have no ill feelings for you. When i say MY form of entertainment it's taking out of context, it's meant as my form of enjoyment in my sparetime. In any of these post i have never said that own any of these media, i have only said that i'm annoyed that people write articles about issues that is non-existent calling people women hating induviduals or rapist for something as stupid as watching anime in their sparetime. I only stated that companies are getting influenced by these people. It wasn't meant to be a argument but only a outlet for my frustation on this topic. I don't condone people who just mistreat other fans but that is not the norm, and when they do they get called out for that because that's bad behaviour regardless of political spectrum. Saying that a show is mysoginistic or that it is problematic is far from being an attack towards the fanbase. And this is what like a 95% of these texts do. They criticize the work under their own agenda, like everyone else. And maybe there's a... 5%? that truly appears confrontational and vitriolic against the fanbase with no previous interaction. |
Jin_uzuki said: HenrikDK said: i'm not about to see them ruin my other form of entertainment. It's literally impossible to ruin isekai LN. Edit: Unless you mean anime and manga. But then why the fuck would anyone bother to defend the biggest cancer in the industry? Berserk/Monster and Gintama are not adaptions from LN, i wouldn't call them cancer i personally like them very much :) |
jal90 said: HenrikDK said: The reason for me being angry isn't related to you, i have no ill feelings for you. When i say MY form of entertainment it's taking out of context, it's meant as my form of enjoyment in my sparetime. In any of these post i have never said that own any of these media, i have only said that i'm annoyed that people write articles about issues that is non-existent calling people women hating induviduals or rapist for something as stupid as watching anime in their sparetime. I only stated that companies are getting influenced by these people. It wasn't meant to be a argument but only a outlet for my frustation on this topic. I don't condone people who just mistreat other fans but that is not the norm, and when they do they get called out for that because that's bad behaviour regardless of political spectrum. Saying that a show is mysoginistic or that it is problematic is far from being an attack towards the fanbase. And this is what like a 95% of these texts do. They criticize the work under their own agenda, like everyone else. And maybe there's a... 5%? that truly appears confrontational and vitriolic against the fanbase with no previous interaction. It's not that the articles themself contains any meaning other than starting propaganda to get more clicks on their site. But people outside of that media actually gets affected by these articles getting posted online. I have personally had interactions with people IRL about me being a manic because i like violent video games. I can't stop feeling bad about them since people like that exist who will take everything at face value. |
HenrikDK said: jal90 said: I don't condone people who just mistreat other fans but that is not the norm, and when they do they get called out for that because that's bad behaviour regardless of political spectrum. Saying that a show is mysoginistic or that it is problematic is far from being an attack towards the fanbase. And this is what like a 95% of these texts do. They criticize the work under their own agenda, like everyone else. And maybe there's a... 5%? that truly appears confrontational and vitriolic against the fanbase with no previous interaction. It's not that the articles themself contains any meaning other than starting propaganda to get more clicks on their site. But people outside of that media actually gets affected by these articles getting posted online. I have personally had interactions with people IRL about me being a manic because i like violent video games. I can't stop feeling bad about them since people like that exist who will take everything at face value. "Videogames are violent" is a narrative pushed by media since videogames became a thing. This is hardly the work of these modern SJW, it actually falls more into a socially conservative spectrum that has been the dominant voice in the West for a long while and the one that actually and factually pushed censorship. |
HenrikDK said: I meant Isekai is the cancer, not anime/manga lol.Jin_uzuki said: It's literally impossible to ruin isekai LN. Edit: Unless you mean anime and manga. But then why the fuck would anyone bother to defend the biggest cancer in the industry? Berserk/Monster and Gintama are not adaptions from LN, i wouldn't call them cancer i personally like them very much :) |
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| The only problem with Shield Hero is how everybody treats the Shield guy like shit for no reason and how the plot wouldn't exist if anybody in the show thought for a second "hey maybe there's a reason there are four heroes instead of three?" |
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jal90 said: HenrikDK said: It's not that the articles themself contains any meaning other than starting propaganda to get more clicks on their site. But people outside of that media actually gets affected by these articles getting posted online. I have personally had interactions with people IRL about me being a manic because i like violent video games. I can't stop feeling bad about them since people like that exist who will take everything at face value. "Videogames are violent" is a narrative pushed by media since videogames became a thing. This is hardly the work of these modern SJW, it actually falls more into a socially conservative spectrum that has been the dominant voice in the West for a long while and the one that actually and factually pushed censorship. It was just a example of articles having a effect on people. I'm not saying that it's modern SJWs at work here. But just that articles like this can clearly have changes on peoples perception on anime. |
Jin_uzuki said: HenrikDK said: I meant Isekai is the cancer, not anime/manga lol.Berserk/Monster and Gintama are not adaptions from LN, i wouldn't call them cancer i personally like them very much :) That is what i call a oopsie, i do like isekais if they're done right. |
| Beta complains while Alpha destroys him. Nothing new here boys, it looks like Señor Sexy destroyed the [classified]. Also people should learn that fiction=/=reality. |
| Yeah right there is no way a doujin about vomit exists. Good song https://soundcloud.com/yeungkakit33/op4-hekireki-last-alliance Tsumino account is BigMaraIppo Another Good Song Listen to テスト by mukami #np on #SoundCloud https://soundcloud.com/mukami/77a Ashita no Joe and Megalo box are disappointing anime. My reviews:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Botan-Chan45/reviews Best Naruto Op: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByCNZxOBVWM&list=RDByCNZxOBVWM&index=1 discord name: Chitoge Kirisaki#9564 https://discord.gg/nGKu6zx my discord server for plebs |
| This is honestly so dumb to me. The girl literally ruined his life for no reason other than her own gain with no way for him to get back home and no way to prove his innocence. So right there on their first complaint I'd have to disagree. Considering she made a false rape accusation just to make a bit of money (which is far from the worst thing she'll do as many light novel readers know.) He has every right to want to get revenge on her. I will say I can at least see the reasoning behind why someone have more of an issue with the fact that his allies are slaves but if you'd actually read into the story a bit more you'd most likely know why he did it. After you have someone screw you over and ruin your life lets see how many people you're still willing to trust in a new strange land in which you know no one. I'd argue the fact the worst thing he ended up doing is buying some slaves is a miracle. It isn't right by any means but story wise having an ally who is physically unable to betray him is of course gonna be a tempting offer. Anyway I'm not here to change anyone's opinion, at the end of the day it's just an anime if you don't like it no one is making you watch it. |
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Pullman said: TripleSRank said: Maybe you were talking generally, but do you happen to have any examples of this off-hand? I’d be interested in looking at them if you do. how about every time someone calls a show 'sjw' because it has elements like, idk, strong females, homosexuality or anything else that isn't white, male and heterosexual? Or the whole High Guardian Spice discourse based on a 1:30 trailer? There's plenty of people who call anything 'sjw propaganda' that has ANY elements in it that can be considered 'progressive' by the right-wing (strong females, homosexuality of any sort, non-white characters or actors in important roles etc ('blackwashing')...), be it Steven Universe, the Saga comics, the movie Get Out, the Ghostbusters remake or just Netflix or modern comics as a whole, or any gaming executive making any decisions towards more diversity or less fanservice in their games. It's always SJW conspiracies and propaganda, and never individual decisions by individual creators who simply want to do something. The only way to not have complaints like that, is to only make stories about white males and their subservient female counterparts because everything is else is apparently forcing your progressive SJW values on poor audiences against their will for manipulative reasons. And if you do that then ofc the other side will attack you and accuse you of all kinds of stuff. It's like you can't write fiction anymore without one side or the other (or even both in some cases like SU) ranting about it being political propaganda. It disgusts me to constantly see fiction abused like that by people who probably couldn't care less about fiction and just see it as another platform to fight their political battles. I'm surprised you seem surprised by this and couldn't think of any examples yourself tbh. Once you go outside the 'anime bubble' you see it everywhere. I could list dozens of more movies, books, comics, series, franchises, games where I've seen people accuse them of being nothing bu SJW propaganda just like this guy accuses Shield Hero of spreading misogyny. Idk. For whatever reason I just don’t see radical right-wingers taking the instigating role around here as much. It seems like it’s more often reactive to something a SJW has said or done. I’m not particularly active in other communities so it’s not a surprise I wouldn’t notice it there, though. Maybe it’s worse in those communites than it is in the anime community? SJWs think they’re morally justified in their beliefs, so I think they’re more likely to go around trumpeting them— and moderate leftists don’t seem as likely (from my perspective) to disassociate with them because they have similar beliefs that they just aren’t as vocal about. As for this thread specifically, calling it misogynistic is extreme, but thinking the setup in Shield Hero is problematic is a position I’m sympathetic to even if I’m not passionate about it. Nobody wants to be called racist or sexist though (which is what the far right is generally accused of) unless they’re literally part of the neo-KKK or something, and there aren’t exactly many people going around saying “hey this is a great show because it keeps women in a subservient role!” or anything of the like. I believe the vast majority of first-world country people would disassociate with that regardless of political association (and I think saying hate stuff is automatically “radical right” is disingenuous too, but that’s getting into another topic). But yeah, who knows. Maybe I just don’t notice it as much due to political bias. That’s why I was wondering if you had any examples off-hand since it might not be something I explicitly pay as much attention to. |
Catalano said: @Pullman damn, you're so good. When I see you're posts on mal, my neurons become smarter. Ok op, end of thread. Really hoping that's sarcasm... OT: I don't know anything about this Shield Hero thing everyone's talking about but going from what the guy tweeted alone, it gives me the impression that it's a show containing the author's political beliefs sprinkled in a very ham-fisted and uncreative way, much like a certain "spicy" show that sparked a lot of controversy somewhat recently, with the only difference being that the complaints had come from the "other side", if you will. And it can also be argued that the latter was more explicit with their intentions, but I digress. I do think that the clumsy attempt at blending the author's political beliefs with the show's narrative should be pointed out. That said, even without knowing anything about the show in question, I'm almost certain that the accusations of it being misogynistic and problematic are blown out of proportion like basically everything media complains about. The words "sexist" "misogynistic" "problematic" etc. are used way too liberally (pun intended) and more often than not unwarrantedly these days. If you really care about the social issues why complain about things whose effect on people's behaviour are infinitesimal rather than shedding light on real issues people go through that actually have an impact on real life? |
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| lmao imagine if berserk aired during this time when guts was raped as a boy by the guy that bought him or caska's rape by femto that caused a miscarriage |
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| Meh. It's always gotta be some right versus left shitfest, and I guess now there's going to be some hot political topic or series that's unavoidably going to serve as a vessel for their stupid, stagnant trench warfare. HGS, Goblin Slayer, now this fucking Shield LN adaptation. Fuck me sideways. It feels like every day we're edging closer to CE 2.0 territory. I've been around for this shit before on other forums and I don't like where it leads at all. Pullman said: It should be more about Us (as in the majority of people who don't want to deal with politics 24/7) vs Them (as in everyone who tries to force us to deal with it 24/7) but it ends up being more of the traditional right vs left crap, led by a minority on both sides who keep forcing those topics into these areas in efforts to 'recruit' the rest of us into becoming like them, 24/7 obsessed with political ideology. And it seems to be working tbh. I'll just +1 this, and note that this thread on a near-holistic level feels like a pretty good fucking example of just that. I really don't have anything else I want to add to this absolute tumor that's sucking what little life this board had away from it, and already giving it acknowledgement by posting in it is bad enough to me. |
ManabanJan 9, 2019 10:19 AM
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| I don't think rape should be used as often as it's in various medias as shock value, it easily can reduce some female characters just objects for that shock value and it can be distasteful too. Even more if it's sth done just for the genre. There is some cases where the rape is just weird and unneeded doesnt' do anything for the story or characters like in Kakumeiki Valvere. There was no purpose it served. However to me that doesn't mean like sexual violence is not sth that shouldn't be used in fiction at all, since fiction does often show various acts of violence and tell story, raise emotions etc. that way. In Goblin Slayer rape was kinda for shock value, but it showed how terrifying the monsters were and was important part of characterisation for some characters like Sword Maiden. It was one of biggest reason why there was this worry over what is going to happen- what you were going to see- when the adventurers went to battle. So I think it did serve purpose, though I think Goblin Slayer would have worked without sexual violence too, I mean torture isn't most nice thing either and there is otherwise to humiliate and shame people than sexual violence. I have just seen Shield Hero's first ep. I guess some could argue that it's bit against MeToo and current (important) discussion regarding sexual harasshment rape currently going on through the world. It's pretty rare rape accusations are false too, it's more common that victims never report rape due to shame. But it does happen and good men (and women too I guess) have been been falsely accused and even judged for it. And it does make sense in the story, it characterises both Naofumi and Malty, Malty wouldn't be as horrible person if she had just robbed the guy. And it creates plotpoint for the story, reason why Naofumi was shunned so harshly and why he's so mad. But I don't know about what will happen with the slave stuff, if this is really slave harem and much less of "lolis", I'm out. I have dislike towards harem and ecchi both so no thanks. But I haven't read manga so I can't judge that yet. |
| Even if it represents the author's pol belief that doesn't change the fact that it's fiction and it has to sall, you bring in the ecchi you sell, who cares about setting. It's not state sponsored. Too lazy to @ some boring user. |
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| I don't know the anime is question but honestly what IS NOT PROBLEMATIC nowadays? ¬¬ (I guess real social issues are not lol) So, what is the sin of this danmed anime of doom and immorality? By the synopsis it seems like a pretty standart isekai anime o-o |
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TripleSRank said: Pullman said: how about every time someone calls a show 'sjw' because it has elements like, idk, strong females, homosexuality or anything else that isn't white, male and heterosexual? Or the whole High Guardian Spice discourse based on a 1:30 trailer? There's plenty of people who call anything 'sjw propaganda' that has ANY elements in it that can be considered 'progressive' by the right-wing (strong females, homosexuality of any sort, non-white characters or actors in important roles etc ('blackwashing')...), be it Steven Universe, the Saga comics, the movie Get Out, the Ghostbusters remake or just Netflix or modern comics as a whole, or any gaming executive making any decisions towards more diversity or less fanservice in their games. It's always SJW conspiracies and propaganda, and never individual decisions by individual creators who simply want to do something. The only way to not have complaints like that, is to only make stories about white males and their subservient female counterparts because everything is else is apparently forcing your progressive SJW values on poor audiences against their will for manipulative reasons. And if you do that then ofc the other side will attack you and accuse you of all kinds of stuff. It's like you can't write fiction anymore without one side or the other (or even both in some cases like SU) ranting about it being political propaganda. It disgusts me to constantly see fiction abused like that by people who probably couldn't care less about fiction and just see it as another platform to fight their political battles. I'm surprised you seem surprised by this and couldn't think of any examples yourself tbh. Once you go outside the 'anime bubble' you see it everywhere. I could list dozens of more movies, books, comics, series, franchises, games where I've seen people accuse them of being nothing bu SJW propaganda just like this guy accuses Shield Hero of spreading misogyny. Idk. For whatever reason I just don’t see radical right-wingers taking the instigating role around here as much. It seems like it’s more often reactive to something a SJW has said or done. I’m not particularly active in other communities so it’s not a surprise I wouldn’t notice it there, though. Maybe it’s worse in those communites than it is in the anime community? SJWs think they’re morally justified in their beliefs, so I think they’re more likely to go around trumpeting them— and moderate leftists don’t seem as likely (from my perspective) to disassociate with them because they have similar beliefs that they just aren’t as vocal about. As for this thread specifically, calling it misogynistic is extreme, but thinking the setup in Shield Hero is problematic is a position I’m sympathetic to even if I’m not passionate about it. Nobody wants to be called racist or sexist though (which is what the far right is generally accused of) unless they’re literally part of the neo-KKK or something, and there aren’t exactly many people going around saying “hey this is a great show because it keeps women in a subservient role!” or anything of the like. I believe the vast majority of first-world country people would disassociate with that regardless of political association (and I think saying hate stuff is automatically “radical right” is disingenuous too, but that’s getting into another topic). But yeah, who knows. Maybe I just don’t notice it as much due to political bias. That’s why I was wondering if you had any examples off-hand since it might not be something I explicitly pay as much attention to. And the right don't think they're morally justified? Or why did you find it worthy to emphasize that fact on the left? Seems weirdly biased. But that just as a sidenote. And as I tried to show with my list of examples, the right are just as happy to shit on fiction for not conforming to their norms. That doesn't mean they will praise something when it is outright misogynistic as you said and I never even remotely hinted at that, but they will shit on anything that is progressive in any sense and declare it as part of some SJW conspiracy to manipulate the media just like SJWs shit on anything they can construct as being 'misogynistic' or contrary to their values. I really don't understand why I have to repeat that, I'm pretty sure I was clear about that in my previous reply and I guess if you didn't get it then, you won't now either, but I feel I have to try at least once more. If you don't believe me look up the reaction to High Guardian Spice or the Ghostbusters remake or modern comics yourself. There's plenty of material out there and those topics are just the tip of the iceberg, the ones where the backlack got so big that it overshadowed or overshadows the work itself. For every example there's a dozen more where the 'controversy' was limited to the specific fandoms, like this Shield Hero 'controversy' is. There is no inherent difference between criticizing a work for putting in false rape accusations or harem slaves because those ideas disagree with what you want to see and your values, and criticizing it for using women/having feminist values or Black or Trans characters or actors instead of white hetero male ones because that disagrees with what you want to see and you values. I've even seen people complain about fat characters being in a show making it too inclusive and therefore being sjw propaganda. And not just once. Anything deviating from the cis hetero male norm will find at least some right-wingers, and in some cases a broad front of them, shitting on it for no other reason than that they perceive it as being progressive and therefore part of the SJW agenda which goes against their political and social values. Same reasons why SJWs complain about stuff they perceive as going against their values. And most of the time it's bullshit and overreactions on both sides. If you're really that unaware of how many people shit on fiction for reasons like too many blacks, too many women, too many trans, too much feminism, even to the point of large-scale boycotting some of them, then I'm sorry to say that you must have lived under a rock for the past couple of years. But I haven't, I've actually watched and liked some of the targeted 'SJW propaganda' series (I didn't know they were that hated before I watched them) and got for example unsolicited comments or PNs on MAL, calling me a SJW for simply rocking a Steven Universe avatar and forum set for a while. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I never delved into the fandoms of SU or Sense8 (two of my favorite shows from the last few years), I just scratched the surface and realized how much hate there is for them from the right that completely ignores anything related to how good something is, how well it is executed, how it approaches certain themes and shits on it purely for certain elements being present in somewhat important roles. Be it homosexuality or transsexuality or non-standard bodytypes. It frustrated me so much that I didn't even want to talk about those shows on the internet unless in private, because you never know how people will react once they know you like them. It might instantly turn into a political debate, and I wanted to avoid that. And those aren't quite mainstream enough to really make it to the public discourse, unlike some of my other examples. But seriously, just google any recent movie or Series that is somewhat popular and focuses on blacks, homosexuality, transsexuality or related topics and you will find a multitude of backlash comments, often much angrier and antagonizing than the ones about Shield Hero that started this thread. Even if it is something widely acclaimed like Get Out, you get the backlash of 'racism against whites' etc... The only difference is noone bothers to make MAL threads about random comments like that so if you get all your opinions on the current discourse on politics and media from MAL you might think that it's always SJWs taking issue with fiction for political reason, but once you come out from under that rock it's impossible to still think that. You don't even need to be terribly active of other communities or examples (I'm not). It's just so omnipresent. So yeah, if you're still asking for 'examples' after two posts full of them, then that's on you. I'm already annoyed enough I had to repeat myself once and I'm not gonna do it again. If you want to believe it's only SJWs who stir up shit regarding what is in fiction, then feel free to keep living in that dreamworld. I can't do anything more to convince you of how things actually are than I already did. For my own mental health (because I'm really starting to HATE these political debates centered around escapist fiction) this is gonna be my last reply to this thread. I already didn't want to write this one tbh. I'll just say one last thing and that is that the people who 'stir up shit' are, in my opinion, more the ones like OP who spread twitter comments or the likes, with usually very limited ranges, and turn them into this huge community-wide deal while blaming the person they quote for 'instigating' a shitstorm that would not exist if they themselves hadn't gone out of their way to involve as many people as possible in what would otherwise have just been a random twitter post with limited reach. Sometimes they spread the word about a stupid post because they're part of the opposing political side and see an opportunity to weaken the credibility of their opponents, but I also think a lot of the time (like probably in this case) it's people who don't care either way and just enjoy creating shitstorms for the sake of it. They know people on both sides are just waiting for any opportunity to go at each others throats, so they provide those opportunities and lean back to enjoy what ensues, with the pleasant side effect of also triggering people like me who'd like to keep all that political bs out of areas like MAL. It's perfect for trolls. So yeah, people having their politically biased opinions on fiction isn't the real problem. I find those opinions stupid most of the time, but almost without exception it's always someone else (either from the other side of the political spectrum, or someone outside of it) who is actually responsible for turning these uttered opinions into large-scale shitstorms. They're the real assholes in this whole story as far as I'm concerned. They're the instigators. So if you mostly see topics complaining about what SJWs say on MAL, you can know one thing for sure: The instigators are unlikely to be leftist themselves. They're either right-wing or just trolls trying to create shitstorms. If they've given you the impression that it's the other way round, they've successfully tricked you tbh. It's never the same people making the MAL threads that make the initial 'controversial' comments. |
AlcoholicideJan 9, 2019 11:33 AM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
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