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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Reinhard can't even have a pleasant honeymoon without a riot/insurrection/war breaking out somewhere. It seems the headaches never cease with territory so expansive. I find it odd that Oberstein conveniently backed up all the navigational data from Phezzan. On one hand it can be viewed as implementing an emergency management plan. On the other it could be viewed as a ploy to gain favor by displaying his foresight in anticipating such an emergency and being prepared beforehand. It's good to see Julian finally heading out and taking part in some military action. Staying on Iserlohn for too long could lead to complacency. |
 ...even a saint needs a soldier to do the dirty work. |
tainteddonut said: I find it odd that Oberstein conveniently backed up all the navigational data from Phezzan. On one hand it can be viewed as implementing an emergency management plan. On the other it could be viewed as a ploy to gain favor by displaying his foresight in anticipating such an emergency and being prepared beforehand. I find it perfectly normal to make backup copies of very important data. In fact, if the data was lost and there would be no emergency copy, it would be very strange to me. |
| I had fun once and it was awful. |
| I know the importance of backing up data. It's not so much that the data was backed up but who did it and the timing. Even Reinhard was surprised that Oberstein had done so using computers that normally wouldn't be able to hold the data. Like I said, it could be just good emergency management planning on his end but after all the betrayals and underhanded plots coupled with some of Oberstein's past actions gives me certain misgivings. |
| ...even a saint needs a soldier to do the dirty work. |
It's not so much that the data was backed up but who did it and the timing. Someone has to do it. From what I remember others were rather busy having a war. Also, Oberstein is down-to-earth and practical person, so making backups imo fits his character. Like I said, it could be just good emergency management planning on his end but after all the betrayals and underhanded plots coupled with some of Oberstein's past actions gives me certain misgivings. LoGH is simple anime. There are no extra-sufiscicated plans like those from Death Note or 95% of other anime. In LoGH simplest solutions work best. Remember the assasination attempt on fleet commander that was going to Terra to wipe out the cultist? It was quite simple: just go there and stab the bastard. Same goes for the infiltration of Terraist HQ by Julian & friends. In it wasn't LoGH i would expect that those religious freaks would come up with something like "we knew who you were", "it was all part of our evil plan", or "you were just a puppet". But no, they were surpised. Just watch few episodes more and you'll see what their "great scheme" will work for them. In conclusion, in LoGH simplest solutions works best. And it's not a bad thing. In fact, after all these anime featuring Just As Planned...'s it's really refreshing to see anime that features logic. |
| I had fun once and it was awful. |
| It's more surprising to me that Oberstein was the only person who thought to backup the data. Even if he did plan to destroy it in the future to prove how useful he is (and I don't think that is the case), he deserves to be commended for pointing out a gaping security flaw in the imperial system. Besides, what exactly does Obersten have to gain? He can't go any higher in the political system (his "anti number 2" policy, and the fact that everyone hates him means he'll never become emperor). |
kilmindaro said: tainteddonut said: I find it odd that Oberstein conveniently backed up all the navigational data from Phezzan. On one hand it can be viewed as implementing an emergency management plan. On the other it could be viewed as a ploy to gain favor by displaying his foresight in anticipating such an emergency and being prepared beforehand. I find it perfectly normal to make backup copies of very important data. In fact, if the data was lost and there would be no emergency copy, it would be very strange to me. One of the most important thing is to backup all your data. As an engineering student, that is one of the most important thing you need to do.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
wakka9ca said: kilmindaro said: tainteddonut said: I find it odd that Oberstein conveniently backed up all the navigational data from Phezzan. On one hand it can be viewed as implementing an emergency management plan. On the other it could be viewed as a ploy to gain favor by displaying his foresight in anticipating such an emergency and being prepared beforehand. I find it perfectly normal to make backup copies of very important data. In fact, if the data was lost and there would be no emergency copy, it would be very strange to me. One of the most important thing is to backup all your data. As an engineering student, that is one of the most important thing you need to do.... Yea, but it wasn't so in the 80's when the book was written :P |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Poor Reinhard; the guy can't get a decent honeymoon going when he has several things poking at his sides. Fortunate for him, Oberstein played a step ahead of the Earth Cult by having the navigation data backed up somewhere else. Julian finally wants to go to war, and I can't wait to see what he's capable of, and at the same time, I don't want him going off where he can be potentially be killed. |
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| I'm looking very much forward to see Julians capability in the upcoming battle :) BUt I sure hope Wahlen doesn't end up getting killed.. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Average episode, but helps developing Julian's character a bit. |
| i'm curious about how will Julian pull this battle off :) it was a nice episode...was it me or they tried to make Oberstein less of an a*hole this episode? 4/5 |
Sayonara,papa! "Just how a mirror reflects you,people will also reflect your heart." ~Athena Glory,Aria "Whatever happens,happens" ~Spike Spiegel's thoughts on dying(Cowboy Bebop) |
| GOOD! Now something tells me both Merkatz and Julian will die in the hands of Reinhard von Lohengramm |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| Maybe not. That'll be too easy. Oberstein less of an a*hole this episode? I don't think he was ever an asshole. Remember when he tried to protect Reinhard from a rocket launcher (lolz) where Seigfried died ? |
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WanShan said: Confucius said: GOOD! Now something tells me both Merkatz and Julian will die in the hands of Reinhard von Lohengramm I hope so, although it's not going to happen. They are like children playing some games without any discipline at all. And that's really annoying... Excuse me good sir. Your bias is showing. Please put it away. It's not polite to wave it around in public. |
| Now we get to see if Julian is indeed worthy of being Yang's protege. |
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| During this episode I was thinking that there's something contradictory about the Republican government. They claim to be the protectors or the seed of democracy, which is compared to a fragile flower that needs to be nurtured. But such an opinion is based on the assumption that people elsewhere in the galaxy will let democracy die if everyone at Iserlohn don't take action. If that were to happen, people didn't want democracy after all. So despite claiming to be on moral high ground they are still taking the attitude that people as a mass need to be controlled and guided into the correct form of government, whatever it is, and that notion in itself is anti-democratic. Like Julian said, if people are starving they don't particularly care who's in charge or what the form of government is, they just want a government that works. It's not like the republican ideals will disappear if Iserlohn loses. People in Heinessen and the rest of the old Alliance still remember that leaders can be elected. The biggest difference is that such forces would no longer have a military presence in space, so it would take a more large scale revolution. But if people are unhappy and want their own government, they will strive for it anyway. It's an interesting paradox. If democracy is weak enough to disappear from history completely without military intervention, then it's not really the will of the people after all, is it? |
Feorg said: It's an interesting paradox. If democracy is weak enough to disappear from history completely without military intervention, then it's not really the will of the people after all, is it? It certainly is an interesting paradox. The best solution I can come up with is that democracy itself, as a political system, doesn't have to be the "will of the people" for that group of people to govern itself by the will of its majority. This has no formal basis: the first line of the U.S. Constitution, for example, is "we the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union...," suggesting that legally, the establishment of democracy does in fact come from the people partaking in it. But does the majority of people in a democratic system partake in democracy for democracy's sake? Explicitly, very few people do (the U.S. has the Constitution Party, and many other countries have similar minor parties) -- but implicitly...? I'm a heterosexual who supports gay marriage on the basis that it doesn't infringe upon anyone else's life and liberty; that the choice is so harmless that it should come from individuals and not from the government. Does that mean that, in this case, I implicitly partake in democracy for democracy's sake? Well, now my solution to the paradox is starting to fold backward on itself. It's a murky topic. That being said, I'll also say that I agree with Julian: Julian said: If there were a vote to determine the supreme leader in the Empire, there's no doubt that he, Reinhard von Lohengramm, would be elected. In that sense, Kaiser Reinhard, though he's an autocratic and warlike ruler, is a very democratic existence, considering the popular support for him. But my agreement with Julian is contingent on Reinhard's perfection. It's been said many times over the course of the series that the rest of the Lohengramm Dynasty isn't going to be as magnificent -- or benevolent -- as Reinhard. |
| Man the Alliance people are so violent, it's like the 10th??? time they start riots. LOL |
| What I don't get is why are they blaming the Empire for what is obviously disturbances set-up by Phezzani's . . . Anyways, I wonder if Reinhard is going to meet a tragic end in the battle . . . It seems that might be the case due to how their are only a few episodes left. |
 |
| The reasoning for Iserlohn to get involved is very weak. I feel like its just an attempt to get Julian involved in the action, b.c otherwise there was no real need to come to blows. It's not like Iserlohn has the slimmest chance of victory. Yes the supposed excuse is that if they perform well they will then be on better grounds to negotiate with Reinhard. But the truth is that is exactly what Yang accomplished, which is why Reinhard invited him for talks in the first place. After his murder the talks and the theoretical peace were discarded, but the reality is that it still earned Iserlohn a permanent truce as long as they weren't aggressive or overtly hostile to the Empire. This was furthermore cemented when they agreed to let Mecklinger pass, earning them credit and extra goodwill. At this point if Iserlohn indefinitely remained neutral and held to the truce there is borderline no chance they would ever be attacked (atleast not while Reinhard is still alive). They would be allowed to continue their "democratic" way of life on Iserlohn, and possibly transport the few discontent people in the former FPA territories over to Iserlohn. Besides the stupidity of getting involved in an unwinnable war, the reasoning of "the uprisings" and supposed calls of help is also weak. Julian and co. should realise that its being spurred on by Terraists or Rubinsky (it is even discussed and acknowledged by them as a likely possibility), yet they still go ahead with the war. Absolutely idiotic and I feel this is just a way for LOGH to get Julian involved in war, and to end on a war note, since in LOGH world logic there has to be a perpetual war. Notice how outa the 110 episodes probably almost 100 of them have onscreen deaths, whether in space battles, assassinations, murders, accidents, terrorists attacks, or characters discussing deaths. Its funny but early in the next episode the narrator says "Julian couldn't help but wonder if this battle might be an act of idiocy that could break up the bridge of amity that was starting to be built between the empire and them". This is extremely damning, even those of you who for some reason think its a good idea for this to happen and think its logical (for some unknown reason) can't counter that. The next line doesn't make things any better at all - "But once he had made his decision, there was no way he could go back in time". Uh hello?? They haven't done anything hostile yet whatsoever, just moving near the corridor is far from a situation thats unrecoverable. Would he lose face for changing his mind? Sure. Is that price worth avoiding a catastrophic, futile, and 'Idiotic' war? Absolutely. Really disappointed here, both with Julian and LOGH. Note I am a True LOGH Fan, but I can't help but notice some weaker plot and logic in the 4th season, including the Reuental rebellion and all the flaws with that. There is no doubt the 4th season is the weakest link, no matter what happens in the next 9 episodes that won't change that. |
SlickDApr 26, 2014 10:26 PM
| If this little bullshiter beats the Kaiser my opinion of this show will fall even further. I disliked the stupid idea of him becoming the commander of Iserlohn, but if he beats the Kaiser, that'll be even more ridiculous. He has NO experience commanding a fucking fleet, hurr durr let's make him a commander. If he wins, rating will drop by at least two. |
| The constant riots under a good rule show how retarded these people are. |
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| How are they going to do a war in 9 episodes? |
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| Some really nice development! Looking forward the the remaining 9 will offer but on the other hand I do wonder how they'll finish it! |
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| Give these idiots what they want. Another scum bag like Trunhit. And Jules, what the hell are you thinking. Another pointless war? |
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| Looking forward to what Julian and the alliance is capable without Yang |
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| I'm getting disappointed, is this an obligation for the plot to continue going? It must have wars to go on? Even though it's so stupid giving the fact that Julian's army has almost no chance of winning. And if he somehow outwins Reinhard, then the series would fall really hard, but I trust the writer, he has been doing a brilliant job so far. |
| I didn't like Katerose at first but she grew on me with her warming up to Julian like that. |
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Feorg said: During this episode I was thinking that there's something contradictory about the Republican government... ..The biggest difference is that such forces would no longer have a military presence in space, so it would take a more large scale revolution. But if people are unhappy and want their own government, they will strive for it anyway.. I think you answered the conundrum yourself, or maybe one could say the answer was hidden in the question itself. Yang, and later Julian, wanted to preserve Iserlohn as a seed for democracy in the future, where Reinhard's successor might not be so darn perfect. Of course revolution from the inside is possible, but it's far easier if there is already a force on the outside, especially with its own military - that would make the revolution/transition far smoother, with less bloodshed. Even in the case of the FPA - it was born of dissension, but it needed a base far away from Odin, in Heinessen, to really flower. It's a matter of being a step ahead in case the cry for a democracy does come up from within the New Empire. The inherent assumptions - and Yang's steadfast beliefs - are that hereditary autocracy is bound to go wrong at some point, and democracy, though flawed, is the best way of governance, and it's need will never die. If any of these two are wrong, then the Iserlohn Republic might have to rethink its existence. Until then, I think their behaviour is justified. The apparent paradox is because of the exception and paradox that is Reinhard, the benevolent and fair conqueror. SlickDragon said: The reasoning for Iserlohn to get involved is very weak. I feel like its just an attempt to get Julian involved in the action, b.c otherwise there was no real need to come to blows.. Agreed, it's very flimsy reasoning for what is essentially plot convenience - but really, after Reuental's rebellion (hurr durr, the Kaiser doesn't trust me, why should I have to talk to him at all, I should just rebel with my forces which are 10x smaller. Hail Death!!) this almost seems solid. -_- The Iserlohn forces exist in order to support the cry for democracy, after all. Except, well, they had a much better chance at winning if they had combined forces with Reuental and sucker-punched Mecklinger. Yare, yare.. season 4 has been really trying, and it's not just the OP song. |
| Finally Julian took a great and hard decision!!! |
| I wonder how they are going to fight the Imperial if I remember correctly there are only 942,000 people left on Iserlohn and 2/3 of are men how the hell can they fight when they don't have enough firepower. |
| Best line of the episode, spoken by Mittermeyer: "Even if a volcano erupts, winter doesn't become summer." |
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| It's time. They have to end this confrontation. Staying in Iserlohn won't do any good. They have to fight for the people that still believe in them. |
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| Finally Julian's turn to show his skills! But when both sides go to war, won't the Terrarist and Rubinsky stab them from the back? |
"Signature removed"   |
| Karin and Julian moments are getting cute and cuter. Seeing that Julian goesn into his first battle as a leading commander makes me a bit nostalgic. Not long ago he was participating in his first battle. Time flies. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Man I really hope Julian and the republic loses. He says some fancy word dressings about democratic theory but the truth is that its a shallow view of humanity since people don't even really know WHAT they want. Kind of like those quotes about whoever controls media controls the people, like theories of manufacturing consent by Noam Chomsky. Truthfully, meaning is far more important than the esoteric belief that the "sanctity" of life is being able to make your own unfettered choices. Reinhard's dynasty will provide far more meaning to the people than some plutocratic "democracy". |
| Dusty: You're going to turn 30 this year, aren't you? You'll finally be joining us, huh? Poplan: Until my birthday comes, I'm still in my youthful 20's. Dusty: And when is your birthday? Poplan: Treizember 36th Dusty: Oh, don't give me your stupid crap, you bad loser! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm going to start using that. Also "I didn't turn 30 because I wanted to..." |
| A good author leaves the audience enough material to be satisfied with, yet yearning for more. |
| julian - "its terraists" also julian - "imma do it anyway lel" i hope he gets btfo, can't stand that prick |
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| seriously? after all that hard and serious thinking that what julian came out with? going out a war against the empire? really don't understand this conclusion following the discussion beforehand. making the empire going out for a war - meaning, wahlen forces would use money that should use for economic and distribution for the flee forces. if it's not earth cult cause, they are pretty much screwing up the heinsen's anti-empire citizens. how they'r gonna excuse themself by "we are democratic who's going to help you!"?? and if by, the chance it's the terraists fault, and the possibility that by fighting the empire would help their enemy rather than "spread the democratic!" what does going to war gonna help? but no, there's just no logic in julian's opinion except the dramatic conclusion that "reinhard loving war". lol. seriously season 4 so far feeling really forced in terms of the isserlohn side. it would be much more interesting if julian would side reuntal. oh well, you didn't. in fact - you also helped reinhard's forces coming through. the only normal and logic possibility i see from here is trying to coexist with the empire and by those somehow tho gain political power to make some democratic nation. maybe even to fight the terraist together. so my only hope is that julian isn't just "gonna war with the empire", but actually have some smart plan there. because so far he's kind of dull commander. he have no chance to win against the empire. unless he had succeeded somehow yang's magics. lol. hell, even attenborough and poplan conversation in the middle of the meeting just showed how they are little kids who plays the box game "fighting the emepror". they didn't have showed little seriousness there lol. my only concern here is, that reinhard cannot have peaceful honeymoon . |
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