| Hmm. That's a fair point. I think the immense hype around it makes it a bit overrated, considering that it's ultimately a shounen show about a group of kids fighting titans. The plot isn't anything groundbreaking [Claymore has a similar premise], and the characters aren't that innovative either [Eren draws many similarities from Shinji from NGE]. But, despite its lack of originality, it does feature many cool scenes and has a remarkable budget to make the action sequences flow beautifully. It's not the next Madoka Magica in my book, but it's definitely not Guilty Crown or SAO either. The manga chapters have been getting interesting lately, yes. |
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| Eren does draw similarities from Shinji... if that means that they're practically the exact opposite when it comes to the way they handle situations. With Shinji, it's more like "Get in the robot" whereas with Eren, it's more like "Get out of the titan". The titans are sorta like mechs, I suppose. I will agree that there are some similarities as well, especially their respective situations but in terms of personality, they occupy opposite extremes. It isn't exactly original, that's for sure. While I personally prefer AoT over Madoka Magica (please don't kill me... I'm weird), I can definitely see why people would say otherwise. AoT probably has this kind of hype due to it's widespread appeal, kinda like Death Note which had a similar kind of hype back in 2008. Plus, they're both directed by Tetsuro Araki. I think it has to do with the fact that the author held back on killing off some of the characters, leading some to be better characterized now, which I thought was the main weakness of the series. Especially Sasha, Connie and Christa. Even Reiner and Berthold to an extent, especially good old Bert. While they are a bit dialogue heavy, it's a nice breather from the insane action we had a few chapters back. |
SolosFeb 9, 2014 10:06 AM
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| No. While Attack on Titan is by no means a masterpiece, it is deserving of such popularity and acclaim. It features a simple but thrilling premise, and executes its drama (for the most part) well, with interesting world-building, interesting themes, and splendid action sequences. No, it's not the best anime evar. No, it's not an overrated piece of standard shounen shit. It's a show that appeals to the lowest common denominator, but does so in a respectable fashion, with a dark atmosphere, consistent mood and development, and zero fanservice. |
| Yes. The amount of hype surrounding this manga/anime and it's rabid fanbase is starting to grate on my nerves. I first started SnK with the first 2 episodes of the anime, I thought it was interesting and considering all the fuzz surrounding it it looked pretty good. So I went ahead and got caught up with the manga. Now I don't think it's a bad manga, it's quite good, great in fact. I just think it doesn't do anything special for me. I don't get the hype around it. The story isn't anything remarkable or new, the characters except for a few are pretty one dimensional and just going for the 'cool factor' and the pacing is of at times. The anime was well done, a very good adaptation of a decent manga. I just think that people need to chill out and wait till this manga is done before acting like it's the greatest manga of the decade. Right now as it stand it's a 7/10 for me, hopefully if the story has a coherent ending my rating will go up. TL;DR It's by no means a masterpiece, but it's definitely good. So yes it's very overrated when comparing the reception it's gotten to how good it actually is presently. |
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| I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it, but I do believe it's overrated. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good enough to be at top 50, not to even mention top 20. Like most anime, Shingeki no Kyoujin had its flaws. The difference between a fan and a neutral viewer is the ability to overlook those flaws. I couldn't, so I guess that explains my stance. Then again, I can't really complain about it being overrated. I've given a 10 out of 10 to some anime that others would rather rip their eyes out than watch. It's all a matter of taste. |
| Is it overrated No, simply because it was great enough to blow all other anime series from that year to smithereens. Attack on titan has done what other anime from other years tried and failed to do, it climbed up to the very summit of anime glory and now stands beside anime like: Claymore, Death note, Code Geass... Plus I have been waiting for an anime that people can get exited about and think to myself, finaly the fans are getting exited over a good anime series, it was about time. |
SofiaBulgaApr 17, 2014 2:58 AM
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zieek said: No, simply because it was great enough to blow all other anime series from that year to smithereens. 2 problems: 1. if you find something watchable from a pile of trash, that doesn't automatically make it a masterpiece 2. Yes the quality of anime in those seasons were bad, but there are more watchable and enjoyable shows than pointless gore-fest + ultra-asspulls depending on the viewer's perspective zieek said: Attack on titan has done what other anime from other years tried and failed to do, it climbed up to the very summit of anime glory and now stands beside anime like: Claymore, Death note, Code Geass... I fail to see any, as far as the anime material concerned (nor really do I see it in the actual manga thus far) See what I've got: Whiny & annoying main char - NGE and GS Destiny already excelled in that perspective Asspull: Geass and Claymore exceled in that too Gorefest: compare to elfen lied, this is really nothing Plot? Decently reasonable, yet does not excel compare to many predecessors Graphics + music: personal taste matters alot in that perspective Anything else notable? Not really So climbed to the very summit of anime glory? Gimme a break I never knew the summit was that low |
| "His (Lancer's from fate zero) end is also very anticlimactic. I mean as soon as he gets betrayed, he kills himself, and yeah." ---- Rorico's Hipster Gang |
| It isn't the best show but it's still good compared to most shows. I think the main problem is its hype. A lot of people say it's the best of the best since most anime fans are shounen watchers (Naruto, Bleach, etc) and are easily impressed with something new being introduced. Does it live up to its hype though? Yes, I think it does and it's and enjoyable watch. I get just as annoyed when people say it's an awful or average show because it isn't. I've seen a lot worse shows, credit should be given where credit's due. So ultimately, a masterpiece? No. But is it a worthwhile anime to watch? Definitely, I don't even mind it being in the top 10. This is just my opinion on how the show should be viewed. |
| Is it a Masterpiece? No. Is it Great? Maybe. Is it still Really Good? Yes. Is it Undeniably Flawed? Yes. So in Conclusion, Is it Overrated? For it to be called one of the Best animes of 2013, No. For it to be called one of best animes of all time, Yes. |
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| I thought the show was good, and it's one of the most promising shounen anime in a long time. However, I absolutely think it's over-hyped, for sure. |
::End of Transmission:: What have I been watching? Click here and find out on my viewing blog, "Vigorous Viewing" |
| I did love this show in first 8-9 episodes, but I stopped watching it, because I was tired from Yuki Kaji's screams. I think this show received that big score, because there are really few new shonen anime last years. Shonen genre became so rare that people are happy with anything new. They even give high scores to quite average shonens like SAO. |
Hayama-MizukiJun 24, 2014 11:19 AM
Hayama-Mizuki said: Shonen genre became so rare that people are happy with anything new. You're kidding me with this comment right? |
| "His (Lancer's from fate zero) end is also very anticlimactic. I mean as soon as he gets betrayed, he kills himself, and yeah." ---- Rorico's Hipster Gang |
| I think he is.... |
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| It's mostly up there for hype but you.can see why. |
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| Obviously overhyped. I could rant for a while about this, but I'm too lazy this early in the morning. Bottom line, the characters were easily predictable, filling the same archetype roles that have been used over and over again when a writer isn't creative enough to come up with templates of their own. |
| "I'm gonna make you bleed like me!" Characterization Society Discord |
| It's not an 8.8 show but the hype is somewhat understandable. |
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| Overrated same as Death Note. Same director afterall. While I enjoyed the show, the presentation of the mood was maybe too hardcore... Slightly distracting. Joined btw, looks like an interesting club. |
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| Welcome to the club. |
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| this is more overrated than Dnote imo |
| I agree. |
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| Id say its less overrated than death note death note was definitely overrated. Im not saying it was bad, it was pretty interesting with a pretty unique premise. Had some interesting characters but falls off pretty hard halfway through the show. People however treated it as the god of anime.... And thats the main problem really, Fanboys. id say Titan is better than death note for a couple reasons including use of color, music and atmosphere. The overall filmography was better and of course the art and animation were also better, but thats more due to it being newer. The only reason id say titan is overrated is because fan boys dont know how to keep it in their pants, or make reasonable arguments. So you got tons of people (more than death note had since anime is growing in popularity) calling out its praises while not being able to acknowledge any negatives. |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
| Death Note being Death Note, I don't think it's overrated. It's the type of series that gets people into the anime medium itself and for that alone, it deserves plenty of praise. In India, anime isn't really a thing but still, most people that I know who have gotten into the medium, have done so because of Death Note (Myself included). It wasn't my first anime but it's THE show that got me to marathon show after show and get where I am now. And your argument for AoT being better than DN is completely based on production values which I find baffling. Story wise, there's only one winner. I am.by no means a "fanboy" but it's clear to see why DN is widely acclaimed. And just imagine DN having the same atmosphere and colors as AoT, it would be ridiculously out of place. DN was supposed to have that dark atmosphere and the OST in my opinion was a perfect match so I obviously don't share your opinion at all. Another thing that I am surprised by is the fact that DN doesn't have a BD release aka a 720p copy. |
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| I'm inclined to agree with you on this one, ABISHEKV. I don't like either of the shows, but Death Note is above Shingeki, in pretty much everything. I don't really get the praise for Shingeki's soundtrack either. It's kind of generic as 'epic' music goes. It's not memorable and it doesn't stand out. Death Note's soundtrack on the other hand feels more original and both Light's and L's themes are very good. Much more fitting and helps with the atmosphere. |
| No validation, no applause You don't have prove you got it when you know it's yours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSSKDIcpdSE |
| Absolutely. You literally took the words out of my mouth. |
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| DN is a psychological series whereas Shingeki is a survivor horror so I won't compare the two by the same values. But when judging the shows against their objectives, I'd say that DN did a better job than Shingeki did. The soundtrack in DN wasn't overwhelming either. As for why I still consider Death Note overrated, it would be the second half. Besides the fact that Light had no solid grounds for doing what he did even in the first half. He was kinda between looking for a change of pace and taking responsibility. Problem I always wondered was why would he bother to take the responsibility? |
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| I mean, it doesn't change the fact that on the whole, DN still delivers what it sets out to do. I think it's perfectly reasonable for it to be popular but I do agree with most of your first paragraph. |
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| my argument was totally on production values lol, i didnt want to compare their stories or genre since theyre really different. i found the DN soundtrack to be sufficient, but not great by any means... A show like DN where there isnt any real action and is quite dialogue heavy really needs a good soundtrack to keep you going and i didnt find it was so with DN. the music didnt phase me. The mind games intrigued me, but the music didnt make me feel like him writing in book was as intense as they wanted to make it seem. And that was 1 example, but over all the music didnt add as much to my experience. The only reason i liked Titan soundtrack is because it was different from what i was normally hearing. Which isnt saying it was good or even better lol, more it was just different. That might be my main praise for it, other than that its probably pretty standard. The atmosphere in this show is more done by the art style and color choices than the music. The music seems like its more to give it that european feel. i do find that death note falls off hard once L is gone though where as titan has some slow parts but remains pretty consistent through out. |
ComboSmoothApr 10, 2015 8:40 AM
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
| With all due respect, I find that to be completely baffling in the sense that, I don't see why the production values should matter when.it comes to the topic of whether a show is overrated or not. It's a small factor but irrelevant when considering the merit of a series. A merit lies in the story, characters, enjoyment, impact, consistency, presentation, etc. Music is a completely subjective topic dependent one one's taste but I'll say this much, Death Note's soundtrack hardly receives criticism. You're actually the first person to complain about it as far as I've seen. Pretty much everything you're stating is your personal feeling towards the production values and not a valid criticism towards the shows themselves. And while it might have dropped a bit after L died, it still stayed consistent enough in.my book and many people actually like the second half more than the first. It's just how you view it. AoT is hardly a comparison in my eyes. |
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| If you're talking production values then I'll agree, lunaticsrus. But Production I.G had always been known for their cutting edge animation if I remember correctly. I'm sure Madhouse put as much effort in their production as Production I.G did. Shingeki's soundtrack is outstanding by itself, just not when incorporated in the anime. It was distracting and not subtle enough, especially if the anime was pretty tragic. I didn't say the soundtrack was bad or average, it was pretty good but didn't fit in. (If it was in a tournament anime, I might approve.) About plot consistency, Shingeki had its own flaws just the same. Remove the year gap(and animation improvements) between DN and AoT and you'll still see they're overrated. A lot of people overlook their flaws the most, compared to other series. The more readily people overlook flaws the more the series is overrated IMHO. |
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| ABHISHEKV - Id say that a lot of the stuff that you mentioned are just parts of the production values. Story is important but its a multi-layered artform and many parts of it should be taken into account such as Story, Art, animation, music, filmography. Most of this stuff is production values too id say. Should consider all these things as well as the stuff u mentioned. If a show looks like crap but somehow still has a good story, you still got to judge that. Just like if you ever read the original hunter x hunter. For a long time the manga looked like butt. I still like the series but that definitely affects my judgement over the series. phraze - well i never listened to the sound track out off the show. Could be good by itself for all i know, maybe ill give it a listen but i think it did its job well enough in the series though. It just didnt blow me away. I Found shingeki pretty consistent. Plot wasnt complicated enough yet to be too inconsistent lol. |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
| @lunaticsrus Haven't heard every single one of the soundtracks but what I've heard were good. And if you want my honest opinion, the soundtracks playing throughout the anime made it feel like Gladiator or something. Dunno if that was intentional. The manga didn't seem to imply that kind of atmosphere. Just doesn't fit well, for me. Yeah, sure. It was consistent. But people give it too much credit hence the overrating. :P |
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| I don't see it that way lunaticsrus. Production Values affect the presentation and is a factor in terms of impact. Great direction and execution of a scene is also extremely vital but they're all just parts of a whole. You can't simply separate them from the quality of a story or its character cast and compare them. It doesn't work that way. Consistency, quality of a story, its characters, etc are not necessarily because the production values of a said show are good. A series might have outstanding production values but a crappy story and cardboard boxes as characters. Another series might have a low budget but utilizes whatever it has at its disposal to produce a fine story with multifaceted and character development. It executes its climactic scenes well. Does that imply that the one with better production values is the better show? So what I'm saying is that while the production values definitely play a part, they can't be separated and compared to judge which show is better. And AoT is a simple story. Nothing to write home about. I don't want to get into a discussion regarding soundtracks because that's really subjective and unique to each person. |
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| I doubt soundtracks are that subjective. We weren't talking personal preferences after all. Only whether it matched the series. Soundtracks also play an important part in the delivery of the story. Agree with you on production value btw. But character development isn't necessarily the point of a story, the adventure or experience could be the main point instead. |
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| Oh! in that case, DN's soundtrack suited it perfectly. I said as much. They do. Like I said, it's all part of a whole and not separate merit in itself that makes one series better than the other due to that alone. Character development is part of the series. What are you talking about? If not character development, at least apt characterization is important. Characters matter. |
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| Of course all these categories also need to be looked at in context together but I feel that you can look at a lot of them separately as well. Things like animation can certainly be looked at seperately, but then things like art should be looked at more in context but you can still argue about which conveyed its message better and etc. I understand what youre saying ABHI, and its certainly important how everything works together, thats the main thing at the end, but i find you can still rate, judge and compare the components separately. Especially if your comparing two shows. ABHISHEKV said: Consistency, quality of a story, its characters, etc are not necessarily because the production values of a said show are good. A series might have outstanding production values but a crappy story and cardboard boxes as characters. Another series might have a low budget but utilizes whatever it has at its disposal to produce a fine story with multifaceted and character development. It executes its climactic scenes well. Does that imply that the one with better production values is the better show? So what I'm saying is that while the production values definitely play a part, they can't be separated and compared to judge which show is better. i would definitely compare all these things you mentioned between two different series and take both into account. Just cuz you have higher production values doesnt mean the show is better, but it would be fair to say that one show out shined another in whatever aspects. If the show u mentioned with great direction and characters and whatnot but mediocre production values got a bigger budget and was remade exactly the same but just had a nicer aesthetic and had smoother animation, wouldnt that affect your rating of it? |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
| @Abhi: Examples I can think of with focus on story and not characters are 5cm per Second and Shinigami no Ballad. Story was memorable but I don't remember the characters. And it's pretty common in kids anime. I take into consideration what the producers were trying to achieve, not just the characterization. |
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| @lunaticsrus - I kinda agree with both your paragraphs this time around. If you're purely comparing certain categories then I guess they can be separated. One show can be better than the other in that particular category but for the overall picture, everything needs to be taken into consideration. If a remake was made then of course it would affect my ratings provided the quality of the core categories is the same. @Phraze - There are exceptions to every rule. And those two series are short to boot so they can be constructed such that they focus more on the story that its characters although either way, the characters act as the medium to convey the story's message. |
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| Fair enough. |
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tonicwalter said: I don't really undestand the question of a series being "overrated". Just replace it with "Is the show as good as people make it out to be?" If it means "does it live up to the hype" - then there's no real question to it: the hype around a series stems from a huge amount of people being amazed by its qualities. Since that "amazement" boils down to the work striking the right note with not one, but coincidentally a lot of viewers, it is still purely subjective. In other words, it is merely an accumulation of "a mainstream"'s like of a series. The existence of the hype therefore justifies the hype. 4hype noun Definition of HYPE 1 : deception, put-on 2 : publicity; especially : promotional publicity of an extravagant or contrived kind <all the hype before the boxing match> By the very definition of the word hype, no show lives up to it's hype. I doubt that anyone can say that Shingeki~ is NOT a skillfully done anime (graphics, lightning, use of color, animations, soundeffects, soundtrack, etc). The basis of comparison should be the industry standard. It isn't. The character designs look stupid compared to the background which makes the entire anime feel like it takes place in front of a green screen, moreso than anything else. I don't consider it that much above average. The soundtrack is average and forgettable. I wouldn't be surprised if a google search for "generic epic music" would have Attack on Titan's soundtrack there somewhere. The judgement of "content" however (writing, character design, character developement, etc) is entirely subjective No it isn't. You can be objective (to some extent, at least) when evaluating a show, although how much each asset matters for an individual is in the end subjective. Besides, while it is theoretically possible to argue almost an point, making certain claims will just come off as laughable. If someone makes the claim that Mikasa is among the best written anime characters ever, I would just find it funny because I fail to see any reason how she is. Unless you count personal bias into the picture, which you shouldn't when evaluating how well-written something is. and therefore not really up for discussion Then why are you in a club geared towards discussing anime if you don't think it's up for discussion? ...since no "taste" is wrong. That is unrelated to the quality of a work though. I vastly prefer Jigoku Shoujo over Barakamon, for example. Why? Because it's occult horror (which I love) compared to slice of life comedy (which I don't like at all). That doesn't mean I consider Jigoku Shoujo to be better (I don't) simply because I have bias towards it however, even though my taste makes me prefer it. |
| No validation, no applause You don't have prove you got it when you know it's yours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSSKDIcpdSE |
| @tonicwalter: Overrated means whether something gets more credit than it is due. It's not necessarily a subjective or negative word, at least that's how I see it. Shingeki had it's own shortcomings but many ignore that and give it a perfect. If they acknowledged the flaws and gave it a perfect based on their enjoyment, then I won't call it overrated. The majority (note that I say majority) of reviews I've read of the series so far don't acknowledge its shortcomings, hence why I call it overrated. Nothing to do with hype. Hype is just about whether a series hits the target with all the right stuff. Shingeki did that well, I won't doubt that. It doesn't count towards being overrated though. People can still talk about their favorite series, acknowledge it's flaws and still love despite it's flaws imho. |
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| @tonicwalter: I read reviews occasionally. And no, a shortcoming is a shortcoming. There's always a certain amount of objectivity because everything follows a basic blueprint or foundation. That's probably my criticism - that people rarely acknowledge this fact, whether they like or dislike the show. Btw (as mentioned before), I don't think the soundtrack fit well. Told a friend that and she agreed with me even if she loved Shingeki. About what you wrote to ftFate, subjectivity does play a role, but only after the objectivity/foundation is laid down first. |
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| Definitions of hype in various dictionaries I could find. The red thread in most dictionaries I found is "Exaggerated publicity" or something among those lines. Wouldn't it be fair to assume you would use the more prevalent meaning of said word? But sure, if you use it your way, then your argument stands. I don't really know what to tell you, but "look stupid" doesn't really fit into my questioning of the "quality" - and the character designs thrive on being most realistic, that's why you won't see any crazy haircolors (etc). The overall work put into details is far above industry standards (look at the uniforms, the different nose and eye shapes, the inherent facial expressions). The backgrounds were very detailed as well with an above average use of perspective, lightning and color. Again, the reference point is the industry standard, not your very favorite work. The overall puzzle is more important than the individual pieces. Why does detail (for example) matter if the end result look stupid? I said I consider it above average regardless, for what I consider standard/average. Just not amazing or anything of the like, because well, it looks stupid. The soundtrack does exactly what it's supposed to - it fits the situation and "cultural background" the anime takes place in. Classical composition is a very daunting thing to approach, and the pieces used in this soundtrack remind me of Carl Maria von Weber. The variety isn't too bad either, ranging from orchestral pieces to singing+acustic guitar. Just fitting doesn't make it good - just average. Which I said I considered the soundtrack. Average and forgettable. It didn't really add anything to the show to me. It would have - if the show was exciting then it could probably have helped to underscore that, but the soundtrack just ends up being wasted on a lost cause instead and doesn't add anything. So...your point is that you can be objective about certain aspects. but weighing them (and coming to a result) is subjective. That's close to what I said - I never claimed that the conclusion you come to cannot be reached by taking into account partly objective aspects (="objective to an extent"). Furthermore I disagree, because I don't think there can be any objectivity when talking about actual content (you admit to it being limited to "an extent"). I agree that any claim concerning the above is laughable when not explained reasonably. To Did you accidentally stop mid sentence here? But either way, pure objectivity is uninteresting while pure subjectivity is useless. Think objectivity = content and subjectivity = opinion on said content. If a show has plot holes for example, and a reviewer doesn't acknowledge that then it's probably a poor review. If he does acknowledge them but consider them to be of minuscule importance, then he is at least being fair. You're a feisty one. The quoted post is a rant, so don't you go generalize my generalizations. From my experience, discussing the wrapping (that which can be perceived directly) tends to yield a lot more results than discussing the content (that which needs to be processed first) since personal preference (or bias or taste - call it as you will) plays a huge role in the latter. Implying it doesn't play a bigger role in the sooner. For example, I found the dubstep music in Parasyte to be not only unfitting, immersion breaking but also directly laughable. If someone thinks differently, well, there's nothing I can do about that except making him understand where I am coming from. If we were discussing content however, then I we could reach a conclusion much easier. Plot holes, inconsistencies, characterization, pacing et cetera are all elements that is possible to discuss and reach to a conclusion regarding the quality of the content. the shortcomings you claim may not be shortcomings in the reviewer's books. But they should still be "presented as fairly and objectively as possible" so you should still discuss potential shortcomings for other people. |
| No validation, no applause You don't have prove you got it when you know it's yours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSSKDIcpdSE |
| Interesting discussion but I'll shy away from this one. |
|
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