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| so....does kanba almost kiss Himari has anything to do with this episode?... |
FOEbulous-max said: And then there's the third penguin symbol, the one which I am using for my avatar. I believe that the name of the third faction is "Kiga", going off the apple in the opening. That is probably also a representation a limbo, or at least a bridge of sorts between Pingroup (Yang) and Penguin Force (Yin). The reason I say this is that the most prominent use of that particular penguin symbol so far was on the skunk in episode 4, who let off the gas that sent Ringo into the pond, which ultimately ended with CPR between Shouma and Ringo, which could be interpreted as kiss, and certainly was an action which intermingled Yin with Yang. fabulous observation, Max ^_^ I'm also trying to figure out the meaning behind this third yin-yang penguin label. And I also believe that this is something that balances the other two factions. In many episodes, though, it tends to appear more on the Force side. It's placed on the books from the dark part of the library. It's placed on the apple (which might also be considered a tool of the dark side, just like it's been used as a tool by the snake in the Bible). It's placed on those red "bullets", etc. On the other hand, it's probably just that PingForce are using the underworld tools more frequently and aggressively, because of their very nature. So, perhaps, it's basically a sign that alerts, that the thing it's placed on, comes from the Underworld. That means, that such tools can be used by both sides, Pingroup.Inc and PingForce, for their own needs. After all, in the Bible the Apple itself was growing in Edem quite peacefully. It was the snake that used it in a negative sense for its needs. So this probably is why, this label has such Yin-Yang appearance - suited for both sides. ***** ADD: I wonder what was the meaning behind that other child in the hat? I can't even figure out properly, was it a boy or a girl - the one Himari saw? I'm also curios, why is the Underworld located on the floor -61 of the basement? I mean, it makes sense for it to be down in the Earth, but why 61 exactly? Does this value has any special meaning? Why were some floors marked with fractions, like 56 1/3? I'm trying to Google the meaning behind the number 61 but to no real avail so far... |
soulelleSep 9, 2011 9:00 AM
| Terrific episode, the direction was near perfect. One of the best episodes of the season (wait what ? I already said that for Steins;Gate this week ?). |
 In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
| OH MY GODDESS! FULL OF WIN! Steins who? Madoka.. who is? AnoHana... i laugh! And minna... I'M VERY PROUD IN ALL OF YOU!  |
PaninaManinaSep 9, 2011 9:18 AM
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soulelle said: I'm also curios, why is the Underworld located on the floor -61 of the basement? I mean, it makes sense for it to be down in the Earth, but why 61 exactly? Does this value has any special meaning? Why were some floors marked with fractions, like 56 1/3? I'm trying to Google the meaning behind the number 61 but to no real avail so far... maybe that aquarium is modeled on this :"Sunshine Aquarium" http://sites.google.com/site/soukarinbu/home/pingudoramuseitijyunreisuizokukan and it is situated on the rooftop of "Sunshine 60" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_60 IE, -61means "roof terrace (in the reverse world?)", i think |
zimnoSep 9, 2011 9:37 AM
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Orulyon said: I can't agree. That boy blonde person looks like a girl. True that the hat has a crown and the Himari's hat may be that of the queen but regardless nothing remotely suggests of any kind of Monarchy within the society of penguins. I don't trust that Sanetoshi since he could be another Kyuubey or Mephiagreed. The important person to Himari is the "penguin" boy. and the best of it are the hints that the librarian guy gave her telling her she is the bride of Destiny. Now, she has a penguin hat, the little blonde boy had a penguin hat too but his penguin hat has a crown which suggests that he might be the King of penguins "Destiny" ? Ikuhara also directed SailorMoon, so this has a great chance of being true XD That being said, I strongly will keep an eye on the blond hair person. |
| as much as i enjoy this show, i'm not really keen on the stuff from utena recycled here... |
soulelle said: oh my GAWD!!! So here we saw the UNDERWORLD!!! In fact, it's quite confusing, since the afterlife concept in the show seems to be a mixed one: based on the Japanese mythology, it nevertheless adds Christian elements. For example, the Heavens part (the green and light Library area with birds in the sky) - this is where the 7-sins plate is located - and the Hell part (the dark area of the Library with books by KAERU-kun) - with its Leader, the DEVIL - are both located in the underworld. Damn, I knew that that guy would either be God or Devil. Turned out to be devil or so it seems. And he almost made Himari his bride! AH!!! Such a snake!! He even throw her an apple to share with her precious beloved one... See another Christian reference about Adam and Eva here? But Himari stopped that bastard in time and chose the right way... that's how she, in the very last moment, managed to escape becoming a member of Penguin Force (unlike Natsume) and stick to the PenguinGroup.Inc instead. Regarding the book she got (Kaeru-kun "Tokyo wo Sukuu" - "Save/Help Tokyo" by Froggy): She tried looking for it in the Light part of the Underworld but they didn't have it. She then asked #3 to help her find that book and #3 showed her the way to the Dark part of the library... The books in that library are all written by Kaeru-kun (i.e. Froggy). Most of them are called "Save/Help somebody/something", e.g. "Save Otello", "Save the Foreign Legion", "Save the lover", "Save the family" etc. The "Devil" reads three books to Himari about her past: "Save the H trio", "Save the Takakura", "Save the TV-combo" - it's up to you to speculate about the actual meaning of those titles. I'll do it once I'll see the episode with subs and can understand for sure everything that happened in each of the flashbacks. But I'm pretty sure that the book Himari was looking for and eventually found was the "spell" to get back to Tokyo. One might also consider it a pun on KAERU, which can also be translated as "return, go back" rather than "frog". But now the Double-H and Triple-H thingy is finally clear. Himari and those other two girls wanted to enter the Idol-Talent world as a "Triple-H" trio. But in the end Himary got kicked by the other two or so it seemed to me. So the two girls formed the "Double-H" duo without Himari. Some pictures: Penguin Force PenguinGroup.Inc Children's Broiler Heavens/Light part of the Underworld Hell/Dark part of the Underworld woow, at first i knew this episode was great, but was a bit confused, but what you just said here really helped me!!! thanks!! can't wait for next episode, wanna see how badly injured shouma is... |
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| That was outstanding! I even forgot about Shouma for a while. Hibari and Hikari have the same hair colour as Shou and Kanba, odd. Hopefully next week we get to see Shouma's fate, though the preview suggests a detour to Kanba's story. Mundane said: YES! omg, Sanetoshi is a much less creepy and much more beautiful version of Akio. And the whole bride references. Ah, the entire episode screamed Utena. I loved it.I'm getting such massive Utena vibes from this, which is great. |
| Nice catch on Triple H girls having the same hair color, I wonder if it correlates with Himari and destiny. Shou-chan next week XD |
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| Great episode! Nice to see a bit of Himari's background. But now i have to wait another week to find out if Sho-chan is okay T w T |
soulelle said: oh my GAWD!!! So here we saw the UNDERWORLD!!! In fact, it's quite confusing, since the afterlife concept in the show seems to be a mixed one: based on the Japanese mythology, it nevertheless adds Christian elements. For example, the Heavens part (the green and light Library area with birds in the sky) - this is where the 7-sins plate is located - and the Hell part (the dark area of the Library with books by KAERU-kun) - with its Leader, the DEVIL - are both located in the underworld. Damn, I knew that that guy would either be God or Devil. Turned out to be devil or so it seems. And he almost made Himari his bride! AH!!! Such a snake!! He even throw her an apple to share with her precious beloved one... See another Christian reference about Adam and Eva here? But Himari stopped that bastard in time and chose the right way... that's how she, in the very last moment, managed to escape becoming a member of Penguin Force (unlike Natsume) and stick to the PenguinGroup.Inc instead. Regarding the book she got (Kaeru-kun "Tokyo wo Sukuu" - "Save/Help Tokyo" by Froggy): She tried looking for it in the Light part of the Underworld but they didn't have it. She then asked #3 to help her find that book and #3 showed her the way to the Dark part of the library... The books in that library are all written by Kaeru-kun (i.e. Froggy). Most of them are called "Save/Help somebody/something", e.g. "Save Otello", "Save the Foreign Legion", "Save the lover", "Save the family" etc. The "Devil" reads three books to Himari about her past: "Save the H trio", "Save the Takakura", "Save the TV-combo" - it's up to you to speculate about the actual meaning of those titles. I'll do it once I'll see the episode with subs and can understand for sure everything that happened in each of the flashbacks. But I'm pretty sure that the book Himari was looking for and eventually found was the "spell" to get back to Tokyo. One might also consider it a pun on KAERU, which can also be translated as "return, go back" rather than "frog". But now the Double-H and Triple-H thingy is finally clear. Himari and those other two girls wanted to enter the Idol-Talent world as a "Triple-H" trio. But in the end Himary got kicked by the other two or so it seemed to me. So the two girls formed the "Double-H" duo without Himari. Some pictures: Penguin Force PenguinGroup.Inc Children's Broiler Heavens/Light part of the Underworld Hell/Dark part of the Underworld Wow. This was a really good interpretation of the event. I'm not really religious so I would not have thought about relating it to the afterlife but it does make sense. I can see how the pink hair guy could represent the devil. The way he tempts Himari into showing a sign of narcissism/selfishness through presenting her with stories and questioning her (like when he said "but deep down you felt mad at your friends for becoming famous right?"). It's very similar to within the bible when Lucifer tempted Jesus into committing sin, but in the end Jesus persevered as so did Himari who decided to return back to earth. Also, another interpretation I thought of was possibly that she never went to the "Library" physically but mentally. You know, kind of like the movie Inception where people travel deeper within their dreams. In Himari's case, she was moving deeper and deeper into her subconscious and viewing the most poignant/memorable moments of her life (kind of like how your life flashes before your eyes right before you die).. God.. there could be several interpretations for this episode. But that's why I loved it so much!! Also, Himari was not kicked out of Triple H (remember she was sick). That must have been the reason why she said that she left school and never came back/saw them again.. Also when she was on the metro and saw her friends from double H on the train, it kind of seemed like the director was trying to show that they were watching over Himari; as if they hadn't forgot her. Himari's friends were always there on the metro (not literally, but symbolically), showing that they hadn't forgotten about her and still care about her ( at least, if you view it from a literary standpoint).. Phew.. what a great episode that was.. I'm loving this series. This was probably one of the best episodes yet; they should make more like this. |
MSfanaticSep 9, 2011 2:58 PM
| The episode was absolutely great! I loved how the episode decided to cover the background of Himari since we have not had much episodes with her much. I also liked the fact that there was some Shaft vibe to it especially the huge library. Although it was sad the fact that she wasn't able to be her childhood friends when they became idols. However it was nice that she doesn't view them grudgingly (I think) but more of admiration. Haha I feel bad because I totally forgot about Shouma being hit by a car from last week until the end. I really do hope it doesn't turn out to be incest... Also I like to mention about the book number 3 was resting on. Could Himari possibly be saving Tokyo next? :] |
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| Awesome episode this is definitely one of my season faves. And the mirrors had awesome quality no color splotches like in the recent episodes! 5/5 |
MSfanatic said: Could be also astral travel as OBE (Out of Body Experiences) That is quite possible because the devil having her as wife would mean having totally control of her physical body, which would be much more feasible for him to try.Also, another interpretation I thought of was possibly that she never went to the "Library" physically but mentally. You know, kind of like the movie Inception where people travel deeper within their dreams. In Himari's case, she was moving deeper and deeper into her subconscious and viewing the most poignant/memorable moments of her life (kind of like how your life flashes before your eyes right before you die).. There is also the notion of her waking up in her room. |
zimno said: Why "Kaeru-kun Tokyo wo Sukuu"? i like "Kami no Kodomotachi wa Mina Odoru" tho...murakami world? mmmmm.....so many riddle 5/5 9/10 edit...................................................................................... i remember now. this episode reminds me of "図書館奇譚(Tosyokan Kitan)" by Murakami Haruki It reminded me of the same. Then again, in that library there were some Murakami references, like the one book with a similar name to Sputnik Sweetheart, so perhaps that was what was intended in the first place. The lift shaft and the "frog rescues..." books also reminded me a bit of Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World. Anyway, this episode really has confirmed to me that this series will be genius. Might I go so far and say that before long we might even see an anime that is even better than Utena? Maybe I do. Then again, constantly comparing this to Utena is perhaps not the right thing to do. Does it have to be similar to be good? edit: Just a reminder that posts should be constructive and not 1 sentence lines like "lol gay" or "cool st00f". Any such posts will be deleted. |
SoheiSep 9, 2011 4:31 PM
Athena said: That was outstanding! I even forgot about Shouma for a while. Hibari and Hikari have the same hair colour as Shou and Kanba, odd. Hopefully next week we get to see Shouma's fate, though the preview suggests a detour to Kanba's story. Mundane said: YES! omg, Sanetoshi is a much less creepy and much more beautiful version of Akio. And the whole bride references. Ah, the entire episode screamed Utena. I loved it.I'm getting such massive Utena vibes from this, which is great. I couldn't forget about Shouma at all, I was hoping him to show in the hospital but it seems that I'll have to wait next week. This epidose was really cool, the new guy appears, and the ep also show how Himari "was" doing while dead. All in one. Shouma, don't die! |
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| Interesting episode. I was so disappoint they didn't carry over the suspense from lats week, and adding another week ontop of it is really brutal. |
| Brilliant episode. Most likely my favourite so far, as well. I love Ikuhara, his darned genius script and directing, and the deep plot that lies under a thick layer of seemingly innocent and unrelated references. It’s amazing how symbolic everything is, despite looking arbitrary and odd at first glance. It’s got a clever way of showing the flashbacks, too. Himari’s “destiny” should be written in a book, somewhere in that huge library; otherwise, she wouldn’t be able to go against it, as it is implied. The other moments of her life a recorded there, as we saw. … Man, I feel bad for Shouma; he was totally neglected. I wonder how serious his injuries are… |
I think, then procrastinate. Therefore, I am. |
| I THOUGHT that "underworld" library looked familiar! Now I got it! I had been reading stuff for my profession but never thought I would bump into this same architecture structure in my anime! So, looking similar enough? Underworld is apparently in Sweden, haha! Must tell this to my close relatives living there... That aside, highly entertaining and intriguing episode. Pink haired guy caught me off guard since I had mistook him as a girl in the OP and he reminded me somewhat of Akio (Utena). I loved all the symbolism there. Also really liked how they handled the backstory. Got some huge Utena (and Bakemonogatari) vibes like others. Shouma cliffhanger is still there... looking forward to it. |
MinekoSep 9, 2011 5:57 PM
| I love Sanetoshi hair. not the color, mind you. But the hairstyle~ I wonder what happened at the last day at Himari's school? puella-magi said: Skeeturz said: This episode had a really big SHAFT feel to it, was it just me? Nope, it's not just you. Bakemonogatari's visual director actually worked on this episode. It's also worth noting that he was the chief animator for the Utena movie. I knew it. \o/ |
| This episode just was so full of symbolism and references you really have to be well cultivated to understand. Good job at everyone that had sharp eyes and mind to point out all the references. Now we are talking about a series that can make people have more intelligent conversations. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
Sohei said: That is why on one end I have less thinking to do since I did not see Utena just heard about it. Anyway, this episode really has confirmed to me that this series will be genius. Might I go so far and say that before long we might even see an anime that is even better than Utena? Maybe I do. Then again, constantly comparing this to Utena is perhaps not the right thing to do. Does it have to be similar to be good? I think comparing this to philosophy, apparently now religious terminology and a sweet combination of symbolism along with their meanings according to many things among those the director's own messages, that gave me a melting good feeling of thinking more. Since Madoka started, I did not really think that much. This episode makes you think a lot in fact. Well this episode there was amazing discussions at the beginning and still am puzzled about certain symbols. |
| I enjoy everyones commentary and the discussion about the deep symbolism within this episode. Astounding how this man seems to always hit it out of the park when it comes to symbolism within his animes... @Yumekichi11 - If you are impressed with this episode and the amazingness of it's symbolism and gorgeous abstract visuals, DEF check out Utena. Everyone should. It's my fave show, that aside, it really blows your mind as it gets deeper. I think it'd be right up your alley ^^ GREAT episode and I was very pleased to finally see the FABULOUS pink haired man (Akio v2?!)! This show is impressing me now. |
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| I was thinking the "fated one" was Kanba too. I hope it's not that annoying fabulous max guy. Little Himari was a bit of a brat. the mother was so nice and then BOOM. her friends seemed nice then turned out to just be in for themselves. still hate the cliffhanger of still not knowing what happened to Sho. more Himari was nice, but Kanba? |
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1idd0kun said: We can all agree that does not mean Himari will go with that fate but it could mean a fight between Penguin Force and Penguin Group Inc if she does not adhere to her fated one. That may happen but who knows.2ch agree that Himari's "fated one" is Mario Natsume. According to the credits, this character is voiced by Aranami Kazusa, and folks at 2ch recognize the voice, and if there's something they know about is voice actors, so I'm inclined to believe in their assessment, at least for now. |
| So there really is a story behind those two girls that were constantly showing up, especially in the subway. I really wanna know what's going to happen to Shou! |
| This episode is great \m/ I really like the way they approach and tell Himari's story of the past. I won't be surprise if this show in the end turns into some kind of brain-hacking mystery anime =)) |
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| I am honestly blown away by the fact that despite that they revealed so much and answered unanswered questions, the series gave us so much more to ponder about and still left us with a strong feeling of inconclusiveness despite delving into Himari's background. The timing of it all is weird however; they probably should have broadcasted this episode sometime before going into Ringo-chan's "arc", but maybe this is how it was done in the original material. Honestly haven't been THIS interested in a series for a very long time. |
Will I fall in love someday? I wonder? |
| This episode was so SHAFT. |
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| It's SO Bakemonogatari-ish =)) Like the school yard, the way Himari tilts her head... |
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1idd0kun said: Natsume? As in as a relative of Masako? That would expalina lot as to why she is opposing Kanba and Shouma.2ch agree that Himari's "fated one" is Mario Natsume. According to the credits, this character is voiced by Aranami Kazusa, and folks at 2ch recognize the voice, and if there's something they know about is voice actors, so I'm inclined to believe in their assessment, at least for now. Oh, and next episode will probably be Kanba/Masako-centric, probably to confirm the statment I just said, so people waiting on Shou will most likely have to wait another week to find out about him. |
Current FAL Ranking + Previous best::  [ |
FOEbulous-max said: why that? xD it isn't possible to have both in the same episode? :3Oh, and next episode will probably be Kanba/Masako-centric, probably to confirm the statment I just said, so people waiting on Shou will most likely have to wait another week to find out about him. |
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wakka9ca said: This episode just was so full of symbolism and references you really have to be well cultivated to understand. Good job at everyone that had sharp eyes and mind to point out all the references. Now we are talking about a series that can make people have more intelligent conversations. Exactly why I love this show. Behind the cutesy facade lies the deeper and more mature subject matter. This show has a lot of potential and is living up to it so far. |
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| great episode but now i need to wait another week to see shouma :( |
| I wondered who was that person with the penguin hat, now I know. And damn...I think I'd like to participate more in these intellectual conversations as well in the upcoming ep releases. Haha. |
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| Gosh, I needed an episode like this SO badly! It finally makes sense to me! (Well, most of it.) There are still plenty of confusing aspects, but I'll bare with it until this show decides to fix itself right. So far, I think this is the best episode yet, imo. |
Dr_Smurph said: Did anyone else realize that the penguin had the number on it's back before it was actually written? That was from before they wrote the numbers. lol That's what lost me in the first half of the ep before she enters the annex library. |
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GigaSPX said: Could be just a foreshadow of Fate being done. The numbers were to appear anyway on the Penguins therefore it was Fated and it happened. I really want to see the methods shown to fight this Fate notion in this series.Dr_Smurph said: Did anyone else realize that the penguin had the number on it's back before it was actually written? That was from before they wrote the numbers. lol That's what lost me in the first half of the ep before she enters the annex library. |
Yumekichi11 said: till now there hasn't be a real duel/match, but since natsume is using a special weapon, i guess special weapons/items are one way to do itI really want to see the methods shown to fight this Fate notion in this series. or did you mean fight in a more figurative way? :P fight the events? taking himari and ringo as examples, ringo was actively forcing her fate on a predecided way, while himari looks a bit dragged by her own fate |
ZeandoSep 10, 2011 10:22 AM
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| regarding the theory himari had to leave school because her parents were suspected of being related to the gas attack, and so she was kicked out thinking about it, it looks unlikely, because shouma and kamba still go to school and they don't seem to have that sort of aura around the people they met (classmates we've seen few to none, but there is tabuki) anyway, they still are in school, so what has caused himari to leave seems something more related to himari herself instead of a family matter, or maybe it is a family matter but which only affected himari and not her brothers |
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