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| This episode is an interesting one for character connections. For Elias and Chise, it's complicated but I really enjoy watching their time together. Even from the first episode to now, they have a bond that is very unique in this show. Chise reflects all the time they've spent together and I believe every minute was meaningful. Alice's character was also interesting although also emotional for being lol, family zoned. |
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| From Chise to Elias, then to Renfred, the idea of making someone your significant partner, it's a question that not everyone can answer. On the topic of Chris, Renfred grooming his own adopted "bodyguard" daughter to be his successor, and the proclaimed girl herself has some reservations while she's picked up by Elias and Simon off from the train station. The talk about words and friends, and they both land at Elias's home, with Alice loaning a night. Rather than sleeping together with Elias, Chise shares a bed with her, talking about expectations and the past with his Master and the terrorizing sorcerer Cartaphilius, which took an arm off of Renfred to quill the corruption in the Kingdom of Cats. To Chise, she may be married with Elias, but technically they share only the apprentice and master relationship, to which the interpretation is different. The hearing from Alice prompted Chise to go up the roof to find Elias not resting, wanting to divert what Chise has told him earlier in the day. And more than just the wanting of becoming assigned roles in life, it just depends on the person, and Elias knowing that he can't let Chise go, his feelings are starting to pop up of understanding, though I feel that it's alright to think of such. In the end, Alice confronts Renfred about the path that he set her on, and since she felt responsible for the guardian losing an arm, it may be all for naught that Renfred might not understand at all. Such introspective. |
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| Chise and Elias' honest talk about them being married being simply convenience at first before turning into genuine desire to be at each other's side is heartwarming, love blossoms after you know each other. However, I sure hope the part with Alice is simply her wanting to be a proper bodyguard to Renfred and it doesn't blossom into something romantic since Renfred sees her as a daughter, that she's simply upset that she can't protect him and gets protected all the time instead |
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| There is only one word to describe how I feel about this episode... Boring |
| A slow episode focusing on relationships and our preconceived roles in them. Pretty nice overall. Chise has really come a long way |
| Absolutely love how this show addresses and explores Elias and Chise's relationship. It's so interesting and refreshing to see this kind of bond being handled in such a sincere way without falling into fetish territory to please a certain specific audience. But yeah, such a shame some people can only see the taboo aspect of it. This is why I think twice before recommending shows like Cardcaptor Sakura to people. |
| You know.... ok... there's always been a burning question in the back of mine re: Chise being Elias' wife. What happens when Chise get's that itch, which I would think she already has. Underneath the nice finery, Elias is some kind of hairy beastie. And he's 100s of years old. What if Chise decides she wants to have children? She's never even been kissed. Dude doesn't have lips! I'm making light, but my hope is for Elias' family to grow. Meaning from the beginning I always just saw him as her father and guardian. Since Chise didn't have anyone to teach her and him not knowing, neither truly understand that love isn't just one note. I've always hoped she'd stay by his side but still able to explore relationships and marry someone she can have a family with if she desires. That's why I was so happy she went to school. I have been wanting her to be on her own and meet people her own age and grow up. I'm not at all happy that Elias followed her to school like a helicopter mom. I don't even know what to make of Alice any more. Who gets mad because the man that took them in and raised them thinks of himself as their father? I hope she's confusing filiality with romantic feelings. |
dragynfaerieMay 13, 2023 3:10 PM
| Elias and Chise were so darn adorable during the rooftop part |
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| what was that at the end |
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| Taking the opposite view to some above negative comments about story elements revisited in this episode, I can firmly and safely say elements like this are actually what made the series so interesting, thought-provoking, meaningful, and worthwhile to me to watch in the first place and it would be an entirely different series and a much more straight-laced and vanilla one at that without them. Some people would also love or even very much prefer that theoretical differently written series in an alternate world, but I for one certainly would not in comparison to what we instead have. One of my favorite lines of dialogue from the entire series up to now comes from an earlier episode in season one - The one where Elias in a fit of jealousy and anxiety about the uncertainty of what he was feeling goes rogue and goes running off on all fours in mixed bestial form into the forest, then holds Chise hostage after she pursues him until she threatens to injure or kill herself with a knife until he releases her. Anyway, at the end of that episode Ruth aired a very insightful comment I thought put a great perspective on their relationship. He says something to the effect of "One moment just before they were like father and daughter, and now they're walking home like a mother and son". Then you throw in the fact that one bought the other as a slave and property even if he didn't mistreat her or have an intention at the time of purchase of mistreating her, and it was essentially used as a framing device which was dispatched with functionally within the first episode. Then the fact that even after relegating their technically on paper master-slave/owner-purchased relationship to more of a formality he still as a mage served as a master educator to her and she an apprentice/student, and then later in the first season that master-apprentice/student relationship also started to go in dual directions as she would also teach him innate traits and quirks of humanity to which he'd be the pupil. And throw on top of all that, last but definitely not least, the romantic and (potentially moreso down the line) sexual aspect with her becoming a bride and their marriage ceremony in the season finale of season one. How could those who acted like a father and daughter in their respective roles to each other one day now take on seemingly the reverse roles of being more like a mother and son, and also all the while growing more comfortable in a domestic situation with sparks of romantic chemistry and attachment to end up as husband and wife, while still being master and apprentice? Maybe they could in some ways be all of these things and in some ways not be bound by placing any one name or title on the nature of their relationship as a limiting factor for others to categorize and classify. Maybe it could be a relationship which spanned several categories, defied set roles and naming conventions, and was uniquely and marvelously just for them. All this culminated (although I'm sure it will continue yet still and wind and meander, maybe stagnate, maybe take one step forward two steps backward, and possibly even go in unforeseen directions) in this episode with the discussion about the nature of any relationship between two individuals - familial, romantic, friendship, professional/business, or something which cannot be adequately described in words and combines several different aspects of these, is inherently subjective to the subjects of said relationship. Relating to all this, this episode definitely solidified my position that Renfred is easily and by far my least favorite character in this series. And I don't mean that as in he's a bad character in the sense of being badly written or a bad addition to the series or anything like that. No, he is perfectly fine and more likely than not a positive addition in that respect to add to the story, drama, and showing of different sides of human nature and thought processes. I mean that I harbor an intense personal dislike of his attitude and actions, and the condescending, self-righteous attitude from him was on full display in this episode. It was present and front and center in everything he said and did to Elias and Alice both. He essentially epitomizes the type of person and mindset I find extremely infuriating and let's just say...have very little patience for. About as much patience as they themselves have for anyone who doesn't line up with and conform to their rigid outlook of the world and people and how other people are, should behave, and what roles they should fulfill. I don't "ship" Alice and Renfred in the way that I do for Elias and Chise, even though I like Alice well enough, just because of the aforementioned strong distaste for Renfred and the type of attitudes and thinking his ilk represents, but at the same time, if Alice wants to be with him in "that" way as well as the apprentice and bodyguard role, then hopefully it happens for her sake. If things get screwed up with them because of his intransigence or some unrelated random reason, then I just hope they don't project it onto and derail Elias and Chise. |
WatchTillTandavaMay 15, 2023 10:13 AM
Aurakin said: That would be for the most part true of someone's actual daughter, whether biological or adopted daughter. But she is not actually in fact his adopted daughter (neither Chise with Elias, which is a whole different story) - not on paper or legally in any sense, and part of what the entire episode is about is that very fact that it is therefore up to the two of them - the two participants and stakeholders in the relationship - to define what the relationship actually is and name it or present it a certain way if they can, but right now the two do not agree and see eye to eye on the nature of what the relationship actually is. If she was actually his adopted daughter, there would have probably been a lot less ambiguity (well, some anime would go there, but mainly ones where that is meant to be the entire dramatic focus of the story or incestuous sex comedies or pornographic ones). The grooming part is getting creepier again. There should be ZERO space for your adopted kid to become anything like a non-platonic partner. And all the talk about how words doesn't matter (Yeah they kinda DO though!), because everyone use them differently anyway. NOO. Not when it comes to distinguishing between being someone's "daughter" or their "wife"/romantic life partner. KINDA matters which one you go for! |
| Lol at the night talk scene between Chise and Alice, a girl's heart is hard to understand. I feel so guilty for shipping Chise with Elias but... here I'm shipping them. Uh, that last scene. There are too many suspicious people here. |
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| Now I think I know what Alice really wants Renfred to think about their relationship, but there he is rigid on his stance.. he sees her nothing more than his daughter. Then there is Elias, feeling down just because Chise couldn't sleep with him one night lol. Love this pair. Again some super suspicious people doing some super suspicious things in the end. That's the second time we got that as a cliffhanger. |
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| some of alice's troubles about renfred involving interpretations. i liked chise and elias's conversation on the roof a lot. already better than the last season. |
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| wait, chise didn't deny when asked if she had sex with elias. If it's so then I need to see a sex scene |
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| That was so good, Chise and Elias conversation. They both care about each other a lot. Also they sleep together? |
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| I liked the idea of different perceptions and different meanings, of the different roles and their assumption. I mean, it was well put and made me think a little bit. que bonito :^) |
Catalano said: "Sleep together" as used here can be taken literally, as was shown in several previous scenes in different instances in season one, rather than as a euphemism for sexual intercourse. They sleep in the same bed, talk, and sometimes embrace one another in close proximity. wait, chise didn't deny when asked if she had sex with elias. If it's so then I need to see a sex scene |
WatchTillTandava said: ok thanks for clearing that out, I jumped the gun and posted straight after I finished the episode. But still, it' came as damn right confusing for someone like me who is an anime only and doesn't pay that much attention to detailsCatalano said: "Sleep together" as used here can be taken literally, as was shown in several previous scenes in different instances in season one, rather than as a euphemism for sexual intercourse. They sleep in the same bed, talk, and sometimes embrace one another in close proximity. wait, chise didn't deny when asked if she had sex with elias. If it's so then I need to see a sex scene |
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| Are all their discussions like this? No wonder Renfried is so pissed, that must be super exhausting |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| It would actually be a bit weird to raise a gal and then marry her.. but if she was just younger and ya'lls just met give or take a few years then its fine. But yea i don't think her feelings will be reciprocated. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| Awww really sweet episode, feels really reminiscent of some of s1 eps where Chise and Elias try to understand one another better. Good reminder as well that both of them had rough pasts and can struggle to explain their emotions, Chise had a rlly sad past from a young age and Elias is quite literally an abnormal oddity still learning human emotions from the ground up in a world of magic. Their relationship includes a lot of leaning on one another in a metaphorical sense while still learning about themselves / one another and building off that. This was honestly one of the reason's i loved s1 so much and i'm happy they're able to keep that same feeling in s2. Mean while we got a pretty nice amount of character growth for Alice, but also got daughter zoned pretty hard. |
| It's both funny and sad how Alice loves Renfred and he doesn't(?) seem to realize it.. |
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| Oh Alice....you should admit how you feel about him. Renfred clearly knows, but loves you as a daughter. Your thing about being his bodyguard, he's just playing along. He completely gets it, you don't seem to. |
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| alices got a problem |
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| The feelings were the point of this episode! kekeke |
| She really looked much better with long hair, maybe Renfred would've changed his opinion if she looked more girlish. |
| Why are you people hating on Renfred?? The man had qualms about him BUYING A CHILD SLAVE, becoming her master, and making her his bride. He did the same he took in a child became her master and views her as HIS DAUGHTER he is disgusted that a a man he views as his compatriota man on equal footing with him would take a girl the same age as his daughter and put her in the role of wife and child bearer. Please remember Elias literally just asked him why aren't you grooming this child to raise your babies for the betterment of you gene pool?? Like he straight up said that to his face. Like I know we are in a fantasy show here, but think from a normal human's perspective here. Elias looks like a pedophile, a criminal, especially when Renfred is in the same position, comparable power level, career experience etc with Elias. We all can talk about how Elias lacks emotional maturity and has a child like role with Chise sometimes, but Renfred doesnt see or know that about him. He only sees him as his work compatriot you know, equal footing shared life experience of an adult. It's no wonder he responded that way. How can literally any of you in the comment section hate him for this?? |
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