DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
| Epic events done in the most boring way possible the show. A bunch on nothing - we know Nina won't chop off his hand, even though it's not necessary deadly. We know Favaro will catch her. They mostly just stand around and talk in Eibos, nothing epic in terms of spectacle like the activation of Dromos. Oh, and the king is a figurehead after all. Pathetic. Though the conscious sacrifice position adds a bit of flavor, it does explain his dead-like bearing and general uninterest towards anything. But how have they driven him into the decision? A dead mom won't be enough for such a tragic life project - he wasn't using his king position for personal gains as a payment. I don't even want to talk about the stupidity of trying to kill Bahamut in the middle of other conflict, while straining your security thin. Creating an empire and not securing it before going into the suicidal biggest problem wouldn't compute for any sort of a sensible planner. Tho maybe they needed demons to build Dromos or conquered them to stop their terrorizing to complete the projects in peace and gods were first deprived of power and then they denied the tech... But that would mean that they knew what Charioce was planning. That's a potential for a twist or a plothole. But the writing isn't all that great anyway, since I feel like I am emergency plumbing it with this reasoning, lol. And their lax attitude towards the security of the capital in these decisive moments make one question the promise about caring for humans. Bahamut is also seriously downplayed now, since humanity can think about taking it down alone. Still letting it to go through the land towards the capital? Really? And what a soundproof plan with flying ships falling all around the one exactly the same technologically with the key king on it. That skimpy outfit doesn't suit Jeanne. She is hot as hell, but she's a war leader, a saint, a mom and a middle-aged woman now. Somehow feels wrong. Why is it that the king can't fight at all? Now, I don't say that he should, even though he has the body for it, but he has survived the expeditions to Cocytus and god sanctuaries. And what especially bugs me is the contrast with the first OP, which was focused in building him as a fighter. He is also very fond of his armor and going on the frontline. So why is he so unbelievably bad at using that big sword? (And where's the trademark fight animation?) Charioce's stubborn silence is more boring and stupid, than mysterious. Is he that damaged? Why is he risking dying by Favaro's hand and not doing what he has lived for in just a few minutes instead of talking a bit, especially if he can't fight Favaro off anyway? Btw, when they go into the portal there's also a mage - was he just standing by all the time? Favaro deducing that the king hasn't ordered El to avoid conflict isn't all that sound, they wouldn't want the ability to stop the green magic around before going into a big operation, that's a good reason too. Really, they could've let Chari to communicate in the final moments. A steward turned kinght... eh, my AU origins were way more interesting. Also - can't they give a name to the poor Onyx Soldiers captain? The man deserves it already. And he discovered the most important notes - why would even one of his oldest friends not call him by name in his story? Btw, maybe Martinet has played another joke on them and his notes aren't true? Speaking about good things - I liked that they have addressed the moral underside of the rebellion and the last scene with Charioce saying to Nina to leave before going into the portal was beautifully drawn. Alexand shows promise as a character, he is scum, but there's a pov where he really hasn't done anything wrong. Him desperately trying to adopt that confidence it is very human and fun to watch. |
deadoptimistSep 15, 2017 5:49 PM
| Bahamut is back. Would be cool to see Amira again. |
"I’ve set myself to become the King of the Pirates…and if I die trying…then at least I tried!" Monkey D. Luffy (One Piece) |
Zapredon said: I'm not convince with Charoice reasoning. If he want to defeat Bahamut, then why did he hide it from the rest and even risk fighting Gods? It doesn't make any sense. If this is not explained, it will be the biggest plot holes in anime. Anyway, welcome back Bahamut. I hope Amira will return too. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a plot hole, but I will admit that I'm not exactly a fan of how he decided to go about his plan from a writing perspective. It was just really poor planning on his part to go around attacking and killing the people whose help he would undoubtedly need if his plan happened to go to shit, because without their shiny green weapons, the humans by themselves wouldn't stand a chance in hell against Bahamut if they had to face him without help from the demons and angels. It just seems like he was shooting himself in the foot by being so openly hostile towards the angels, and especially the demons. I'm also not sure why he would keep the info that Bahamut was breaking out of his seal, and that he was planning to slay him for good, such a big secret from all the parties that probably would have been on board with his plan had he not opened up hostilities towards them. This was really poorly written, but that's not saying much considering what we got for the entire middle portion of the show. Okay episode overall I guess. |
Kuro_YuukiSep 15, 2017 7:33 PM
| Matsuoka Yoshitsugu has hardly any range as a voice actor, and is grossly over-cast. Yeah. I said it. |
| There you go,the resurrection of Bahamut finally begin and Charioce is ready to face it. |
[url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Mascera&sclick=1]  convert gambar online |
| If anything the presentation was on point, aside from that I'm not sure how I should think of Charioce motives, so I won't say anything about that without thinking it through properly. And yeeeeeaaaah Bahamut is back, I'm totally ready for some epicness. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| The king could of talked it out with the other races at the beginning of the series. Just bring up the Doomsday Dragon and everyone will have his back. |
 |
| Oh look, Charioce was a "good guy" all along... yeah, fuck right off with that moronic, predictable bullshit. Like seriously, if this was his plan he didn't need to act evil when he could have just had everyone work together to defeat Bahamut like in Genesis. Instead, we get this idiotic nonsense, complete with Nina doing a complete 180 on how she feels about the King for the second week running. Also, Jeanne's speech to the army assembled against Charioce was not even remotely inspiring and was just pathetic. It says a lot that I'm hoping Bahamut kills most of the characters off, rather than hoping for everyone to win. The only consolation will be if this somehow gets Amira back, but I bet they'll butcher that reunion as well somehow. |
I'll say thank you for your effort. I agree with a big part of what you said : Charioce actions do make sense even though they should have pointed out what kind of artefact he stole from the gods and eventually the devils to make the weapon (which explains why he went on war against them) I don't remember it being clearly mentioned. Many people don't like Charioce and above all this last development (even though we saw it coming long long ago) because it's the typical "this asshole is not as much an asshole as I wish he would be". Lots of people like to see in black or white, it's easier to love or it's easier to hate BUT sorryyyyyy! we have someone "grey" here, how dare they ??? Too complicated! A racist sadistic pro-slavery (with demons) asshole who wants to save humanity and free it from gods and demons and fall in love with a mixed human-dragon idiot! What a headache! I like that. Having said that, I don't fully support the realisation of this episode. Nina - Charioce fight was no fight and the result was sadly within expectations. Previous episode was better. Last but not least, while I hated Favaro in the first season, I think now he is cool! These ten years changed him for good, that's maturity for you. |
Ysad_ZiwezhanSep 16, 2017 2:55 AM
| Bahamut is back! Does this mean we will see Amira too?! |
| To be honest, I do believe that nobody from the Demons and Gods would allow Charioce to revive Bahamut in order to slay him, simply because reviving Bahamut is extremely dangerous and risky thing to do - it's pure madness. The intentions are noble, sure, but we are talking about Bahamut here, the "ultimate destruction (tm)" that could just easily wipe out everything on its way. So, if Charioce would just simply reveal his intentions to Gods and Demons, he had no way to be sure that: 1) any of them would help him and show up to slay Bahamut (because everyone fears him and they are also not known for their willingness for teamwork); 2) they would not interrupt his research for slaying Bahamut (Gods made pretty sure they buried and destroyed everything related to ancient destructive magic); So what he could do to gather them all together at one place? Subjugate them all under one empire and/or stirring up drama to make them chase him and play the villain role so they all go to war. I don't suspect its the latter but that the latter is an effect of the first - because some specific events (like Mugaro's death) are not his immediate responsibility. By no means I try to justify him because he still did what he did to achieve this dream of slaying Bahamut, but because his personality ended up a cliche anime trop which annoys me to no end, but maybe we should also look at it from another POV. The Nina x Charioce romance was going so well in the beginning and they had to screw it up with the boring romance cliches galore. Also Allessand shouldn't have become captain and I hope it goes back at him at some point. Kaisar has more guts than him. |
nelliecatalinas said: And who here have said Charioce is now a saint? Ironically, the one who said that was you, because I was pointing out to just one dimension of his character, but thanks to God he is better than just that. He is not saint, not a savior, but someone who tried to do something different and take a risk in order to make his people not depending on anyone, that was his vow in the episode 10 and he talked about his goals to Kaisar in the episode 5. And this turns really funny when I remember that Charioce gave Jeanne the choice of be free and keep her son away of this war, and what was the thing that Jeanne did? Choose the God that abandon her the previous season, Jeanne did that choice, Charioce gave her the election back in the episode 11, and now what she is doing? Bringing hurted people to start the war with zero winners because her son was killed, she is not doing this because of that people behind her, she said by HERSELF, that people behind her has suffered thanks to Bahamut 10 years ago, that was something that Gabriel and even Lucifer pointed out in previous episodes, many times, and now everyone is marching out to a annihilation. How heroic, right? Again, it's questionable. I am impressed at how much you Idolize Charioce and his action, your whole comments half of them literally made from nothing and false, the other half are truth but simply just how Charioce doing evil for the sake of humankind. Lets take this episode and Jeanne for example. All the "hurted" armies behind Jeanne are the victim of Charioce's rule and his men, pointed out by Jeanne, not suffered from Bahamut incident like you said. All of Charioce's action against the angels and enslaving demons sow the seed of hatred and revenge, a rebellion bound to happen sooner or later. To point out again Gabriel didn't say anything and Lucifer's comment on "lost war" was refering to the battle with Charioce not Bahamut. The demon lost the war with Charioce once thats why they are being enslave now. So in the end regardless of Alessand kill El or not, that 'seed' is just waiting for one event to explode. Unluckily Alessand's action speed up the process. In episode 11 Charioce only gave her the option to presuade El or war, its not about letting El go scot-free in the future and he never promise anything in return, which made Jeanne hesitated during that time. Don't forget that before episode 11 Charioce never give Jeanne a chance and the dark knight was chasing after both Jeanne and El, resulted in Jeanne cutting his own son's wing and went to jail herself. That is why you Idolize Charioce, seeing him "offered" Jeanne something good still doesn't change the fact something has happen. He even threaten Jeanne in the jail regarding her son appeared and stuffs, just when El gonna brought angels to attack the city Charioce suddenlly offer Jeanne to presuade El? Even if Charioce trying to avoid casualties, thats late and out of nowhere. Everytime Charioce presuade Jeanne, was all about getting those faithfull people under him. As Jeanne is very faithful there is no way she would turn against the gods even if she is abandoned by the gods, which is an obvious thing because she killed an angel regardless of she being manipulated ot not. Its not like the angels can forgive Jeanne's action simply because she was manipulated. Jeanne said things about how evil intentions from Charioce to El is the truth, here what she was referring to is all the actions & choices Charioce has done, even if Charioce doing it for humankind and slaying Bahamut, everything can't be discounted. Which also applied to those armies behind her, the victims of Charioce's rule. Questionable huh. Those "hurted" victims you referring to, are you saying they don't have the rights to march against the king? Are you saying Jeanne should do nothing despite all the things she has experience including El's death? Obviously its wrong to say "marching out to annihilation", its like saying you will die if you rebel against a dictator so lets not do it. The main reason for Jeanne starting this its not because El died, its Charioce's reckless acts of violence that pushes every one to the war pointed out by Jeanne, Jeanne only stepped forward and lead the army because of El's death, the victims following Jeanne not because of her son was killed but all the violence they have suffered from the King. Jeanne may be mad over her son's death, but she is still a straight & a just person, she lead this war not under the reason of El's death but cannot forgive Charioce's reckless violence all around and she will bring peace to the the land again(credits of episode 21). Just as how Kaiser explained her son was not killed under the command of Charioce, she is not effected at all, thats because she is not doing this for her son anymore. |
valvravetruthSep 16, 2017 6:06 AM
signora-sole said: So, if Charioce would just simply reveal his intentions to Gods and Demons, he had no way to be sure that: 1) any of them would help him and show up to slay Bahamut (because everyone fears him and they are also not known for their willingness for teamwork); 2) they would not interrupt his research for slaying Bahamut (Gods made pretty sure they buried and destroyed everything related to ancient destructive magic); I'm still not sure about that coz there's Gabriel's evil smile to be considered. |
When someone asks me why I like anime, I'd say Just Because. |
GreenEmu said: Leo_10 said: Bahamut was revived Charioce's goal was to slay him. Since Bahamut was revived, does that mean Amira will come back?? Most likely. She did become part of Bahamut at the end of Genesis after all, so the chances of seeing her again next episode or in the finale are pretty high. Tbh it has been so long since Genesis aired, I don't even remember that. So Amira became a part of Bahamut and he went into hibernation or something? |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
| Bahamut, the most kawaii dragon of them all, is back and ready to slayyyyyy. |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
| Changes of Charioce's plan completely backfiring are almost certain, expecting it to end with all of them uniting against Bahamut (again). Sure hope they explain a bit more in depth in the next episode as some of the decisions in there don't make a whole lot of sense, with a 24 episode order one would have expected a bit more explanation as the last season did more with less. |
 |
| Yay CGI Bahamut is back, the show's saved like hell It's too late to try and make us sympathize with shitty king. Actually I don't even follow this plan, it makes no goddam sense to me. I watched this episode and felt nothing. And there's still 2 more for this mess to be over... |
| Baby, daijobanai... |
| What a plot twist!!! Charioce really followed the philosophy principile of utilitarianism by Stuart Mill. Basically he's doing whatever it takes for the greater good. So all of the sacrifices are for the sake of slaying the bahamut. Jeanne is so focused on revenge for her son that nothing will stop her from going after charioce and the appearence of the Bahamut just difficults things even more! But yeah, obviously I'm full of hope of the possibility of seeing Amira again! |
 |
| The weapon won't work on Bahamut. After all, if it worked why wouldn't the ancient civilization use it against Bahamut? Bahamut has been there since the beginning of the world. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| So like, why immediately assume this is all to redeem Chaorice? Why can't he still be a racist asshole that acts in the interest of humanity & humanity only, tho' by slaying Bahamut he's doing the angels & demons a favor as well by mere coincidence, nothing more. He can be a hero for some of his people & a villain to everyone else at the same time. |
Adome said: isekai said: ye i agree with that Hitler for example is an example in history using the idea of the end justify the means, he wants to conquer the world all for the sake of white supremacists or german race Are you 13 years old no but im child at heart |
| Charioce might be one of the single worst examples of trying to make a morally gray character ever, its so fucking bad it turns this fun show into a complete unmitigated trainwreck. I sincerely do not know what the fuck happened to this show, the director has been pretty great on all his works, there was genuinly fun adventure and character interaction, hell even the premise was loaded with potential. But this show threw all of it away in favor of one of the worst romances I have ever witnessed whilst simultaneously making nina go from a kind of fun character to one of my most disliked protagonists ever. I think as of this episode I cant even give this show anything above a 4. Like its not even like the logic isnt there behind charioce's actions like some are arguing, the problem is theres no proper writing behind any of this shit, the show is just flinging shit in your face and telling you to believe it with the laziest justificaiton of actually showing you the viewer anything. See nina and charioce love eachother cuase they danced, see charioce is a kind guy cause he played soccer with a demon once, fuck right off show. fuck right off. You have not done a single thing to actually properly build up to these events in the slightest which is absolutely unforgivable given the time they have had to so, instead it meandered along at a slogs pace of jack shit happening, I really cant think of the last time i have been this let down by a show, it had everything going for it, everything and it fucked it all |
JizzyHitlerSep 16, 2017 8:00 PM
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
 Nice dodge there lol. OF COURSE Charioce is the "good" guy here (well, he's trying), didn't you people see him shedding dat single, genuine tear in the opening?! It just had to happen at some point, duh. Can't say I was particularly surprised to see it happen, but it was a decent episode, I'm just a bit sad they didn't show younger Chris during the flashback :< But I enjoyed it nevertheless. Bahamut's back, but now I wonder if that means we'll get to see Amira again as well... That could certainly be an interesting development, and maybe Favaro would finally get some love after all these lonely years? Sadly right now I have a feeling that Charioce's gonna share one last kiss with Nina and then die by sacrificing himself to get rid of Bahamut once and for all... And there are only 2 episodes left! T^T |
  |
| For all the people trying to justify Charioce by saying gods are prideful and opressive. You know who is prideful and opressive? Charioce. Even against humans. Don't forget he actually put in jail people just because they disagree with his vision. Don't forget he made Kaiser and Azazel fight against each other to the death. He probably did it before, if he did it there. He made a human being fight to the death with a demon because he didn't share his vision. How is this even justifiable? Demons might be "evil" by nature, but in the show they're just shown as character who can choose and feel empathy as everyone else. So it just looks like another race. I don't need to say why killing and saying another race is inferior is wrong, I think. As a side note, this is the kind of work the writer of this season does: http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Ooishi_Shizuka It's just a bunch of dorama soap opera. Not the same writer of the first season, anyway, so lower your expectation. Also funny how Favaro says: "You didn't killed Mugaro, right? If your plan was to slay Bahamut, it wouldn't make sense to start a fight with the gods". Ok, except for the fact that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE DID THE ENTIRE SHOW. Is this guy even paying attention? |
Neko_96 said: Leave it to MAL to attract persons with shit taste in characters like youTokoya said: Leave it to Nina to disappoint the fuck out of me (AGAIN) and for Favaro + Kaisar and to try and use some type of bullshit means to attempt to redeem Charioce THIS MAN IS AN EVIL TYRANT PIECE OF SHIT THAT IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF ThOUSANDS....Yeah he didn't order king of fuckboys to kill Mugaro but this cunt king tried to kill him many times before (It's amazing how Kaisar doesn't know that) The only thing keeping me from raging during this ep was watching Jeanne and the others go HAM + Favaro thinking about best girl Amira (Please let her come back to life) and like I thought, Charioce's plan does not paint him in a good light at all yet alone does it make any fucking sense (So it was good to have my hate for him be 100% justified) I hope Bahamut kills his ass though because man do I miss seeing that beautiful dragon killing/machine lol You are fucking brainless asshole fuck off watch the anime again brainless! ! Charioce is a hypocritical, murderous asshole, DEAL WITH IT |
| BAHA BAHA BAHA what an embarassing thread to read. The naivete of people never ceases to amaze. I am largely dissappointed in the execution of this show but the core is still solid. But specificallly with people calling Charioce racist, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it hurts you people exist. I don't know if I should even bother engaging with such projections of morals. I think this anime and how many on MAL react to it is a prime study of how humans expect their leaders to be great but can't stomach what was done for them to be great. Why is ignorance is bliss so unbelievably true? Its crazy. Its so true it hurts. Want to know HOW I know you're so very small minded? If season 2 had started AFTER Charioce slays Bahamut you would have lamented at not knowing this 'hero/saints/w/e' |
 |
| well that was a sloppy production job if ive ever seen one. mappa really seems to be stretched to thin. |
| Objectivity doesn't exist. Subjectivity is an excuse. Beautiful world of online discourse. |
| Friggin' EPIC episode! The way they execute this episode was perfect the OST the visuals all together amazing! Favaro mostly figured it out because of all his experience that he has dealt with... Looks like there's no stopping Jeanne with her godlike angel powers back! she's full offensive right now! not even Kaizar could stop her anymore! Nina hesitated, she really couldn't strike the king. So Bahamut is back into the game! Bahamut isn't really eliminated! and they want to slay it once an for all...we learned most of the truth this episode with that short flashback...even Martinet was mentioned from S1! When Charioce said "Don't get in my way" what was so serious and cool of course! The visuals and OST when the scene of Bahamut getting resurrected and all was breathtaking! You're damn right FAVARO! "It's been ten years!" 5/5! |
 |
| So Charioce is a nice guy who did evil things to save everyone... |
 |
Gersoncs said: For all the people trying to justify Charioce by saying gods are prideful and opressive. You know who is prideful and opressive? Charioce. Even against humans. Don't forget he actually put in jail people just because they disagree with his vision. But he didn't. He specifically said to Kaisar that he didn't care that Kaisar had different views until Kaisar took actions against his plans, even though Kaisar specifically went and told about his disagreement. Kaisar was jailed after he protected Azazel, who was attacking the king himself and had just orchestrated an act of terror during a festival, with casualties. And it was treason for Kaisar, normally punisheable with death. Later Charioce allows Nina to speak against him. Jeanne also was banished after she refused to vow to the new king, not jailed. That happened after she tried to hide a god and they learnt about her giving birth to a half-god kid, who could negate the green magic. |
deadoptimistSep 17, 2017 11:43 AM
deadoptimist said: Gersoncs said: For all the people trying to justify Charioce by saying gods are prideful and opressive. You know who is prideful and opressive? Charioce. Even against humans. Don't forget he actually put in jail people just because they disagree with his vision. But he didn't. He specifically said to Kaisar that he didn't care that Kaisar had different views until Kaisar took actions against his plans, even though Kaisar specifically went and told about his disagreement. Kaisar was jailed after he protected Azazel, who was attacking the king himself and had just orchestrated an act of terror during a festival, with casualties. And it was treason for Kaisar, normally punisheable with death. Later Charioce allows Nina to speak against him. Jeanne also was banished after she refused to vow to the new king, not jailed. That happened after she tried to hide a god and they learnt about her giving birth to a half-god kid, who could negate the green magic. That's pretty much the same thing. That's how censure works, for example. No one cares about what you think, but saying those things in public (meaning, taking action) will get you in problems. Most people in the kingdom don't talk openly about what they think about the king, and most seems to be unsatisfeid with him. He's a tyrant that doesn't care about humans. He cares about putting the whole world in danger just so he can have his petty vengeance (because there's no logic reason to take out the seal from Bahamut, he just want to kill the one that killed his mother). Otherwise he would at least try to understand what his people want. |
Gersoncs said: That's pretty much the same thing. That's how censure works, for example. No one cares about what you think, but saying those things in public (meaning, taking action) will get you in problems. Most people in the kingdom don't talk openly about what they think about the king, and most seems to be unsatisfeid with him. He's a tyrant that doesn't care about humans. He cares about putting the whole world in danger just so he can have his petty vengeance (because there's no logic reason to take out the seal from Bahamut, he just want to kill the one that killed his mother). Otherwise he would at least try to understand what his people want. Erm, no. Saying something in public =//= taking action. Censorship is specifically limiting free speech. People in the beginning of the show said that the king had brough them prosperity and that Nina should be grateful - that was genuine, because they said so of their own will. There hasn't been anything in the show that implies that people in Anatae are prosecuted because of the words alone. I mean we really don't know, the one thing we've seen was Charioce warning Kaisar that his sympathy towards demons may bring him problems, but Kaisar was the king's knight captain and personal guard (then), and Alexand is left at his officer position despite it being no secret that he favors demon brothels. Kaisar was left alone despite approaching the king with his different views, the actions that brought him to prison were much more than speaking up - he protected a demon terrorist and fought his lord. Why is it that Charioce doesn't care about humans if he's stopped demons from attacking them, improved the economy and advanced their tech? He vows to protect humans when taking a mantle and a new name, he lets his people die for their sake and is going to die himself. And Bahamut was breaking out, as they have discovered, so it's an immediate danger to humans, which they want to deal with once and for all while they have Dromos. Can't say that the subplot about killing Bahamut is very logical, but it's tied with protecting humanity allright. |
deadoptimistSep 17, 2017 12:43 PM
deadoptimist said: Erm, no. Saying something in public =//= taking action. Censorship is specifically limiting free speech. People in the beginning of the show said that the king had brough them prosperity and that Nina should be grateful - that was genuine, because they said so of their own will. There hasn't been anything in the show that implies that people in Anatae are prosecuted because of the words alone. I mean we really don't know, the one thing we've seen was Charioce warning Kaisar that his sympathy towards demons may bring him problems, but Kaisar was the king's knight captain and personal guard (then), and Alexand is left at his officer position despite it being no secret that he favors demon brothels. Kaisar was left alone despite approaching the king with his different views, the actions that brought him to prison were much more than speaking up - he protected a demon terrorist and fought his lord. Why is it that Charioce doesn't care about humans if he's stopped demons from attacking them, improved the economy and advanced their tech? He vows to protect humans when taking a mantle and a new name, he lets his people die for their sake and is going to die himself. And Bahamut was breaking out, as they have discovered, so it's an immediate danger to humans, which they want to deal with once and for all while they have Dromos. Can't say that the subplot about killing Bahamut is very logical, but it's tied with protecting humanity allright. There was a previous episode where people were clearly against his second war against the gods. Some people also criticized him, while others said them shouldn't say that aloud. There's clearly a censor of free speech going on, and people really don't share Charioce's vision. Kaisar is a special case because of his position. Bahamut coming back was obvious since the first season. But that would take some hundred of years. If he was worried about that, he would just leave advices to the future ruler about how to defeat Bahamut using the weapon, not, you know, releasing a deadly dragon in the middle of a city full with humans. Even if it would break the seal in a early time, it wouldn't make sense to break it even before. Only reason for that is that Charioce wants HIM to be the one that slays Bahamut. That's pretty selfish. No saying that the anime isn't trying to say he's thinking about humans. It's just doing a very poor job at that. Then again, this is the writer who wrote plots like: "He killed my husband, but I love him", so I don't know why I'm even trying to find some logic in all this mess. |
Gersoncs said: There was a previous episode where people were clearly against his second war against the gods. Some people also criticized him, while others said them shouldn't say that aloud. There's clearly a censor of free speech going on, and people really don't share Charioce's vision. Kaisar is a special case because of his position. Bahamut coming back was obvious since the first season. But that would take some hundred of years. If he was worried about that, he would just leave advices to the future ruler about how to defeat Bahamut using the weapon, not, you know, releasing a deadly dragon in the middle of a city full with humans. Even if it would break the seal in a early time, it wouldn't make sense to break it even before. Only reason for that is that Charioce wants HIM to be the one that slays Bahamut. That's pretty selfish. No saying that the anime isn't trying to say he's thinking about humans. It's just doing a very poor job at that. Then again, this is the writer who wrote plots like: "He killed my husband, but I love him", so I don't know why I'm even trying to find some logic in all this mess. Oh, right, I've forgotten - they were warning one another. Yet we haven't seen any executions over speech against the king. And the king himself is not very interested in curbstomping opinions, though his personal views do not traslate directly into his policies. Kaisar's job makes him opposing the king even more risky, so not even removing him from his position of the captain was a grand gesture. I don't think that it's fair to say that humans hate Chacrioce. They are shown to be discontent over evacuations and revolts broke out after Gabriel's declaration of war, which can be tied to the suppressed religious sentiment. But it was established in the initial episodes that Anatae is prosperous and safer than ever, simple people freely expressed their respect for the king to Nina. (edit: Oh, and torturous nobles and slavers, who happen to be humans too, are also super ok with new policies.) I wouldn't be sure about the hundrends of years. Maybe him getting out earlier was what they implied with those foreshadowing remarks about critical levels of something at Eibos. And using Dromos costs a lot, not only Charioce loses his life, the black knights soldiers fuel the thing with their life energy, so it's an understandable idea to slay that biggest foe while you still have the technology and the will and also to save the horror of turning into fuel to further generations. They release Bahamut far from the capital, but I too am surprised that they built Dromos in Anatae (and plan to let Bahamut go through the land...), though maybe it was necessary to protect the capital from gods or because of the location of the green mineral mines. It's normal to protect the center of power with biggest weapons. What I am trying to say is that bashing Charioce for banning freedom of speech is maybe not on point. The show hasn't given us material to think that they police thoughts all that throroughly. And they are medievalish absolute monarchy, where they wouldn't normally allow to openly criticise the king or have any freedom of speech developped. Plus as a person Charioce obviously isn't vindictive towards those who don't agree with him, he values action. Kaisar is punished not because of his words. He is a knight and he has betrayed his lord, this is a big crime. There're plenty of other things that Charioce can be criticised for, and and you're right that the writing is very poor, so discussing their politics becomes an exercise in fanfiction. |
deadoptimistSep 17, 2017 2:11 PM
| Can't wait for this to be over. I'm so tired of Nina and her shit. Also, if the end goal of Charioce was to defeat Bahamut, then why not simply ask for help instead of making an enemy out of everyone? Makes no fucking sense. He's either complete retarded, or so arrogant as to think he can kill Bahamut by himself. Season 1 was so much better. Virgin Soul started off strong but has slowly been going downhill. Just hope the ending isn't any worse. |
 |
| So basically Charioce was a Machiavellian character all this time. Noting can redeem him now. |
 |
| Yikes, wasnt expecting to see Bahamut anytime soon. Um, welcome back? :/ |
| When Jeanne appeared in front of the mixed army it sure gave me chills. I absolutely love her character and her burning passion right now. She already was the tragic fallen hero in season 1 and now its arguably even worse for her. Go for it! (That ending card 10/10 ) |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Added layers seemingly only for the sake of adding layers. This show would have been far better if it didn't try to be so much more than it should be |
| well well.. there are people here who already knew that this is the plan of Chris. they were right :0 this ep was too short T-T |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Shingeki no Bahamut: Virgin Soul Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Jun 9, 2017 |
107 |
by Gator
»»
2 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Bahamut: Virgin Soul Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Jun 2, 2017 |
101 |
by Gator
»»
4 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Bahamut: Virgin Soul Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - May 26, 2017 |
144 |
by Gator
»»
Jan 22, 3:19 AM |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Bahamut: Virgin Soul Episode 7 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - May 19, 2017 |
102 |
by Gator
»»
Jan 22, 2:54 AM |
|
Poll: » Shingeki no Bahamut: Virgin Soul Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - May 12, 2017 |
125 |
by Gator
»»
Jan 21, 11:29 AM |