Dororo Episode 21 Discussion

Farabeuf said:
Cowards. They're all a bunch of cowards, ganging up on Hyakkimaru like that and taking Dororo away.




So Hyakki loses all the right to exist then? Why didn't Tahomaru when he found out about his fathers heinous crime, offer his body or better yet his fathers to the demons in the temple?
Tahomaru is no hero. He's a brat who's jealous of his mother's longing for her eldest and he disguises it with a burning sense of duty.

Suduha said:
It was such a great idea the way they used the horse to try and blow up Hyakkimaru, that samurai is no joke.

Amazing episode as usual, getting ready for that feels ending

kater_tot said:


I say that because he always seems to know where Dororo & Hyakki are and he seems very interested in what happens to Hyakki

Bobby2Hands said:
I felt bad for that horse, ripped away from her child and then killed in a suicide bombing.

Daniel_Naumov said:

Well of course he would be - Hyakkimaru was protected by Buddha, and is not slowly succumbing to evil. The monk is fighting against evil, and, logically, less evil there is the better. So it is in monk's best interest to stop Hyakkimaru from becoming a demon, but while at it he does not interfere with mortal struggle.

Daniel_Naumov said:
To be honest after they introduced Tahoomaru's illogical morality based on the needs of the majority, it just kinda... lost the rest of logic and became rather dull. But it was good when it lasted. I liked it.

Devil_Slayer said:

I am not saying it's the right thing to do, I just said I can see where Tahomaruo is coming from.

Also, yeah. You have to remember Tahoumarou is just 15-16 years old kid who thinks he is some hero who is destined to save the country by killing the EVIL "which is his brother" when the situation is much bigger than that.

Farabeuf said:
Cowards. They're all a bunch of cowards, ganging up on Hyakkimaru like that and taking Dororo away.




So Hyakki loses all the right to exist then? Why didn't Tahomaru when he found out about his fathers heinous crime, offer his body or better yet his fathers to the demons in the temple?
Tahomaru is no hero. He's a brat who's jealous of his mother's longing for her eldest and he disguises it with a burning sense of duty.

Swagernator said:
Hyakkimaru will ride a fucking Rapidash to the final battle, absolute madlad.

SparkleDuck said:
Except... Hyakkimaru is killing the remaining demons that actually were proven to make the land more plentiful and healthy...? Both sides clearly have actual reasons. Tahomaru doesn't want his entire country to be in ruins like it was before. The people the demons killed are a FRACTION of the suffering that was happening before. That's one of the points the show has been drilling our heads since early on. Tahomaru definitely has noble ambitions.

kater_tot said:
Ah man, this anime is tearing me apart...

I don't want Tahomaru to die because he's just trying to be a good ruler and i don't want Hyakkimaru to die but he's getting so cold and hard hearted and it's so sad. I thought he'd turned a corner recently but it feels like he's taken 3 steps back.

I also have a theory that the old blind man is the demon that didn't take a part of him but i'm not sure what that would mean for the plot...

I've kinda given up on a happy ending... just preparing for the worst now 😭

ninka22 said:



WTF. Tahomaru is real monster and he should to die a painful death.
Trying to be a good ruler by sacrificing innocent children to demons. If he wants to be good guy why didn't he sacrifice his own body to those demons.
Hyakkimaru isn't cold. He's angry and has every right to be angry after what his shitty famili did to him. Do you seriously think he has no right to get his body parts back? Did he ever attack his shitty brother or father. They are the ones attacking him and he has no choice but defend himself.

I'm sure justice will be served and manga spoiler.
If you really think that spoild brat Tahomaru is the good guy in this story you have serious problems.

I don’t usually post rants and stuff but todays episode just, uuurg! I loved it, it was a great episode but I just hate it when they make Hyakkimaru out to be the bad guy. They’re once again trying to get us to feel sorry for the people living in Daigo’s land by showing epidemics and war and death. yeah, hate to break it to you Daigo but your land isn’t the only place that’s suffering, like the entire country is at war but you don’t see anyone else go whining to demons. Not until he freed them and other villages started following in his footsteps and began making deals and sacrificing innocent lives.

It’s like everyone seems to be forgetting that the only reason this bit of land is thriving is because of a deal with literal Demons. They’re thriving off an unwilling. innocent sacrifice and don’t even acknowledge it because Daigo didn’t even have the balls to admit what he did and lied to them about sealing away the demons and feeding his own ego.

Also, every time Tahomaru calls Hyakki a demon I just want to scream. like can you not see the hypocrisy in what your saying dude!! You’re calling the person trying to stop the demons a demon himself while your people continue to prosper…with the help of demons? What?

People like to talk about minority vs majority but tend to forget that since Daigo freed the demons they’ve been allowed to run amok all over the country, killing people, taking over villages, manipulating people etc etc. If we want to talk about minority vs majority then why let this one piece of land prosper while the entire rest of the county has to suffer even more for it. What about the thousands of people not living in Diagos land who are now plagued and hunted by the Demons that he set free.

Instead of trying to find a solution on their own, they’re using Hyakkimaru as a scapegoat, an easy way out. ‘Oh why find a better, permanent solution when we can just murder this innocent boy who’s life we’ve already made a living hell?’ As Nui said, the deals already broken now, so killing Hyakkimaru probably isn’t going to do much good. I doubt the Demons are going to be so forgiving for breaking the deal.

This deal was doomed from the start. This is literal Demons we’re talking about here, since when do they play fair. They’re living on borrowed time, time that doesn’t even belong to them. I went back and watched episode one and the priest at the hall of hell told Daigo that what he’s doing is evil and nothing good will come of it and that he’ll pay the consequences and he is. Some divine intervention obviously wanted Hyakkimaru to survive, we’ve seen that symbolised throughout the series and I feel like the gods are using Hyakkimaru as punishment for Daigo abandoning his faith in them and turning to the demons.

Also I feel like people are going to be upset for what Hyakki did to Hyogo and Mutsu in the episode but like what’s he supposed to do? Just stand there and do nothing why these people keep jumping him and attempting to kill him? They gang up on him 3 to 1 then whine about it when they keep losing, like come on. They keep going in for the kill, why can’t Hyakki do the same?

In conclusion, I could not care less about what happens to the people in Daigos cursed land and I will stand by Hyakkimaru’s right to get his body back!! Go baby boy!! get back whats rightfully yours!!

seafirefly said:
I'm surprized at people calling Tahomaru a plain villain or just a spoiled brat. Maybe you people perceive him through the manga prism, idk, but this adaptation basically reinvented his character so referencing to the original makes no sense. As for me, Tahomaru’s character in 2019 version totally steals the light. While Hyakkimaru’s motivations are basic like those of a child who is fighting just to be born into this world, Tahomaru’s motives are complex and his choice conditions are harsh. Calling him a plain villain is just ignoring everything this anime tried to convey up to this moment.

First, there is a huge and constant emphasis on Tahomaru's noble and caring attitude. He cares for his people and land to the point of constantly risking his life. He does it for his pride? Nope. He just feels personal responsibility, it is clearly stated several times. Like when he attacks Hyakki 3 on 1 or brings a whole army to kill him which is obviously harmful to his pride, but more efficient. He needs the work done to secure the safety of his land, not to indulge himself or to prove smth to his father. (Btw, it was shown that he actually tried to prove himself to his MOTHER ("tell father to send me to war, maybe that will make you proud of me"), while he had no problems with his father who did praise him and notice his successes). So, there is no evidence of him doing it just to prove himself.

Second, Tahomaru doesn't believe that sacrificing Hyakkimaru was a right thing to do. He said it himself. He accused his parents and his father, straightforward saying that he did it for his own ambitions and not for the people. That alone draws a line thick enough between his and his father's motivations.

Why Tahomaru called Hyakkimaru a demon then, if he does consider his brother to be an innocent victim? Because he has made the decision, chosing to protect his land over his brother, and once he made it, he should follow it through, otherwise he would be just a weak emo kid driven by his sentiments, wavering and fluctuating. Sentiments are good for the mellow people of 21 century who don't want to decide and just want to enjoy life. For a ruler, especially the one from the Sengoku era, sentiments can't be good. If you have no advanced medicine to stop epidemics, you have to burn down the village. If you can't do anything against floods, droughts and other calamities other than killing one guy, you have to kill the guy. The price - just 1 life - is ridiculously cheap for that era.

Does Tahoumaru enjoy it? Did he lose his humanity? No. He clearly says that he forbids himself to let his feelings get in the way. So, he does have them. His feelings. Meaning it is absurd to label him as a plain villain even from the emotional perspective.

Notice how he never once called Hyakkimaru "brother" after their first battle. But during their first battle, he still called him exactly that. Brother. Meaning this is the very sentiment he has sworn to not let blunt his sword ever again. It makes him weaker. So he tries to depersonate this as much as he can, calling him just Hyakkimaru and a demon. This is not malice; this is a desperate attempt of a boy to manage his feelings in order to do his duty.

Tahomaru's line is downright tragic: he did nothing wrong, he managed to grow up a noble and caring man, and then he was set between the hammer and the anvil and made to take responsibility for everything his father had done. And he took it. This is admirable.

Back to why Tahomaru has made this decision at all: he couldn't find how to oppose his father's argument "The ambition of the lord is the ambition of his people", following with how he sacrificed his own son and not ashamed as a samurai. This one is about his political interests, not about calamities even. And yet again, we have to mind the era: the country was a mess of constant feuds, the Ashikaga shogunate being weak and failing to control the local daimyos, Imperial court having no political power either. Daigo basically wanted to pull out an Oda Nobunaga and grab the whole land. He wasn't the only one like that. If he wasn't attaking, he would be defending, that's how it was. You can't be a pacifist in the Warring States era. Now, Oda Nobunaga along with Toyotomi and Tokugawa are considered the unifiers of Japan. They killed thousands of people, and Oda, for one, was named a Demon during his lifetime. Did they do it for their ambitions -- or to unite the country, put an end to the feuds that drained it and reestablish the law? Both, obviously. No idealist can conquer and unify the country without being ambitious. And vice versa, no ambitious man would conquer the country without having a high ideal in mind, just out of greed.
If i was drawing parallels, i'd rather draw them between the abovementioned historical figures but not Hitler who killed millions just because he wanted them not to exist. Daigo has found the way to obtain his prosperity and political success by killing just one. And yes, it does make a perfect sense to sacrifice 1 for many. The whole human history is the story of such sacrifices. Army, for one, is the potencial sacrifice material for the benefit of the whole country.

What doesn't make sense is to make deals with demons, obviously.
If you can't be a great ruler and conquerer by yourself, it means you simply can't. You lack qualities or conditions necessary for that. No demons will make you one. Daigo failed to realise it.

Now, I don't know if Tahomaru's objectives are, like his father, to conquer the country and thus make the wars stop. Mutsu said he hates wars. I guess it's the same for Hyogo and Taho. Tahomaru seems more like a local ruler who will just try to protect his own domain. But he also has shown the ability to control his sentiments, a quality without which you can't be any good as a leader.

Momohime said:
It broke my heart when I saw what they did to that beautiful horse.

ninka22 said:

noble ambitions? LOL Pretty sure Hitler thought he was doing what he did for noble ambitions too and it worked for him for the time being too.
Nothing shows noble ambitions more than sacrificing children to demons for your countries prosperity. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I'll have a lot o fun when Hyakkimaru kills that brat. The salt of Tahomaru fans in this thread will be delicious.

It was very satisfying when he chopped Tahomaru's minions arms off in this episode. They sure got what they deserved.

SparkleDuck said:
Chill on the edge. Also, MANY people view the greater good as more important than a few individual lives. What Daigo did benefited way more people than it harmed. I don't necessarily agree with his ambitions, but it's pretty understandable why some would. There's a reason why Fate/Zero is held in such high regard, half of its plot is literally focused on this topic: is it better to sacrifice a few for the greater good? It's in no way comparable to Hitler. Hitler didn't make it so his people weren't starving and dying at insane rates by killing Jews. You're making really bad comparisons.

Yautja said:
This is getting worse and worse, and more generic and generic; the morality issues are becoming more inane, and boring. It's trying too hard and making a caricature level of "both are wrong / right" kind of shit. I kind of wish this was split in two cours so I could give the first cour the higher ranking is deserves, and this cour the shit ranking it deserves.

kater_tot said:


Ah that makes sense. I might sound really stupid here but how do u know that Hyakki is protected by Buddha?

Farabeuf said:


I have always enjoyed that most japanese fiction tries to look at things from both sides of the equation and not paint everything in a binary, black and white, evil and good kind of way that most western fiction directed at youth/young adults does. Morally grey character are more interesting.
That being said, yes sometimes they go overboard and like you say reach a caricature level of right and wrong, and specially giving those in the wrong, a series of motivations and background that gives them an easy out for their failings. This has detracted of my enjoyment from some manga like recently Attack on Titan and some others. Dororo is slowly going there.

I don't know how much of this unconsciously stems from Japan's role in the last world war. Unlike Germany, they have never had a proper nationwide policy of contrition and educated their population on what transpired.