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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- I'm still perplexed by the end of the movie. Edited====== After reading Sky Eclipse, I somehow understood what director Oshii wanted to say. In the novel, |
dtshykAug 4, 2008 7:41 PM
| This was shown in theaters, wasn't it? Any idea when we will get to watch it? |
Azndude said: This was shown in theaters, wasn't it? Any idea when we will get to watch it? The release of DVD has not been announced yet. They will release Ghost in the Shell 2.0 DVD/BD this winter, so I expect Sky Crawlers will be in stores this winter or next spring. Sky Crawlers will be shown in Venice Film fest and Toronto International Film Fest. Theoretically you have a chance to watch it there. |
| Strange and sad movie. But the quality of the sky, planes and all 3D is just astounding. It just felt like real when the planes rolled to the runway... As I saw this in theathers with English subtitles I know for sure that this is kinda unique and sad love story. 21st Helsinki International Film Festival also screened it. IIRC all tickets were sold out, but I got mine early :) |
 "Time is liquid. One moment is no more important than any other and all moments quickly run away." |
| can any one tell me where can i find eng subs ? |
Seba-chan said: can any one tell me where can i find eng subs ? Wait for Sony Pictures to release it in US & Canada. Sony to Distribute Sky Crawlers in US and Canada edited on Dec 11th============= DVD and Blu-ray will be released on Feb 25th, 2009 Source: official announcement |
dtshykDec 11, 2008 8:13 AM
| finally watched it. as great as I expected. extremely detail and realistic. breathtaking battles in a sky and a great love-story, though character design is kinds weird. tinyRedLeaf, I think I got it. |
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| Finally the renaissance of Oshii after two less interesting movies (in my opinion). Sky Crawlers goes well beyond what he has done recently and shows for the first time very strong relationships between the characters and a great love story, as well as a fantastic rural background (similar to that of Ireland where he did all the photo shootings in pre-production). Very nostalgic and unreal experience in the desperate fantasy world of the Kildren, the teenagers that never age, live to fight for the TV corporations and entertain bored and passive spectators, and only find salvation in death (that's why Suito Kusanagi is such a complex and melancholic character - very close to Oshii's Motoko Kusanagi in GITS -). The 2D and 3D visuals are really breathtaking and incredibly more realistic and beautiful than Innocence for example, while Kawai's music just amplifies the atmosphere of the movie. As some people mentionned before, the ending is a bit abrupt and needs at least two viewings, maybe three, to analyze all the details and all the plot elements. After the second viewing, you're in for a truly immersive and highly satisfactory movie with great themes and a flawless plot. A true masterpiece for me, and one of Oshii's best movies along with Patlabor 2 (to which Sky Crawlers can easily be compared, more than his recent works) and GITS. It seems really easy to understand on a superficial basis, but be aware that it's absolutely not, it's a very deep and complex movie, much more than what Oshii intended I believe. He even said that it was an adventure romance movie for all audiences and I think that he messed up a bit on this part : it remains a very underground and ethereal movie ;) dtshyk said: Kannami's "Stay living on until you make changes" clarified the theme of the movie: encouraging the young people to step forward to experience a dynamic life. Yep, that's definitely the theme of the movie. According to ANN's Justin Sevakis, Oshii mentionned in the Japanese press kit that he wanted to make the otaku/hikkikomori theme the central theme in the movie. He deducted that Oshii wanted to say that Japanese animation was being increasingly redundant and just fed the same kinds of plots and characters to the same audiences for marketing purposes and no originality or creativity was involved nowadays in the industry. I must admit after watching the movie twice that it's a very tempting conclusion and if Oshii really wanted to express that, he did it very well with the characters of Kusanagi and Kannami. Iahel, you're spot on :) |
 In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
Jacut said: Yep, that's definitely the theme of the movie. According to ANN's Justin Sevakis, Oshii mentionned in the Japanese press kit that he wanted to make the otaku/hikkikomori theme the central theme in the movie. He deducted that Oshii wanted to say that Japanese animation was being increasingly redundant and just fed the same kinds of plots and characters to the same audiences for marketing purposes and no originality or creativity was involved nowadays in the industry. I must admit after watching the movie twice that it's a very tempting conclusion and if Oshii really wanted to express that, he did it very well with the characters of Kusanagi and Kannami. Iahel, you're spot on :) this do make sense, but I don't think Freud and anime industry is the best way to explain it. it's a little bit more deep, covering not only anime issues but the whole construct of artificial in our life. here we go again with this self-identification, non-ego stuff and cognition that's the common problem of majority of anime titles, cause they targeted on teens. but Oshii goes far beyond these patterns. the main problem is esse quam videri, to be not to seem. and Kusanagi is the only one from Kildren who actually really lives, Mitsuya is just on a half way, cause she didn't accept herself like Kusanagi did. one more thing I loved in this move - this stunning contrast between the world they live in and their emotions, it looks like an oasis in the deserted reality without people. for most of them who still can feel something the only place where they can do it is the sky. I think it's somehow true that all aviators are married with the sky. |
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| In all honesty, overall, I found the movie to be as cold, aestheticized, and ... almost smug (?) as the nearly vacant characters it portrays, but strangely compelling. The allusion to Camus' The Stranger at the beginning of the film is very apt here. There's constantly a feeling of suspended time, suspended memory, and perpetual alienation from the present moment. I can't say I enjoyed the film, but I respect the intelligence behind it. So I think I'll be watching this one again, especially considering the theme of recursive lives. Very subtle, and almost disturbing, work. |
FrohikeMar 9, 2009 8:13 PM
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| That was awesome. dtshyk said: This helped thanks. And I got that message while watching relating it to my life lol. Btw Suito looked awesome bowling. |
WTFwasThatMar 10, 2009 8:33 PM
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Frohike said: In all honesty, overall, I found the movie to be as cold, aestheticized, and ... almost smug (?) as the nearly vacant characters it portrays, but strangely compelling. The allusion to Camus' The Stranger at the beginning of the film is very apt here. There's constantly a feeling of suspended time, suspended memory, and perpetual alienation from the present moment. I can't say I enjoyed the film, but I respect the intelligence behind it. So I think I'll be watching this one again, especially considering the theme of recursive lives. Very subtle, and almost disturbing, work. This. Though I must say I got the feeling this movie was trying too hard to be artsy in a pretentious way. It had the feeling of a modern novel that wants so hard to be a classic Dickens or Austen. The most poignant idea in it for me was the "corporation" giving people whatever they wanted, and Suito saying killing people was just part of his job. Japan's workforce being told something about themselves through Suito maybe? |
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| well, sky and plane design is awesome, but the movie seems to me like: kage bunshin no jutsu + air fights. and this scene was hot: http://wgrajna.net/uploads/silv/15-03-2009-2737.jpg Also, lol'd at polish speak and signs |
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| That was really nice, the sky looked fabulous and the battle scenes were great. 8/10 |
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| It was a pretty decent film, but nothing amazing. Battle scenes were pretty nice though. 7/10 |
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| Really good film with clear message. I truly like Oshii Mamoru films. Only thing I forgot (again) was that Oshii really likes my country so I was shocked in a middle of watching when i saw and heard familiar language ^_^ |
aranelcharis said: Though I must say I got the feeling this movie was trying too hard to be artsy in a pretentious way. It had the feeling of a modern novel that wants so hard to be a classic Dickens or Austen. Pretty much my thoughts exactly... |
 ilu Mathes. thanks for awesome Beato sig. <3 ilu mah_marina. thanks for awesome Beato icon. <3 |
| Simply a fabulous movie. In the start I didn't really know what to think about this movie, and was wondering what the hell I started watching just now. From about midway through, however, it started to become really good, and the ending was great. The use of CGI was also amazingly done. That alone is a good enough reason to watch this movie, to me. This movie gets an 8/10 from me. =) |
| Forgot about this, watched it a while back. Beautiful animation, but the story was rather boring and ultimately went nowhere. I was somewhat disappointed. But it was still very pretty eyecandy with a brilliant score, so I give it points for that. Seven of them. |
| I think this kinda cruel what they are doing to this people, anyway not a bad movie but not as awesome as I thought it might have been. |
| I think it's hilarious, all of you who write to the tune of "boring story, but beautiful pictures." You're exactly the kind of person that Oshii is condemning in this film. The kind of person who can't read between the lines, who has a hard time interpreting, and who lives only for the superficial. The kind of person who is stuck in a rut, stagnating, unwilling to discern the same boring cliches beneath your latest anime fix. It's time to grow up, allow yourself to move on, and start watching anime as adults. |
SirduncanMay 28, 2009 11:58 AM
| Actually it has a beautiful story but boring pictures, but I suppose you were too busy trying to look sophisticated in front of us lesser folk to realise it. In any case, enjoy your glacial pace populated by nuance-lacking mannequins. Oshii should stay in live action cinema if he continues with what he's started in Sky Crawlers, at least the actors' performances would be engaging. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
Beatnik said: Actually it has a beautiful story but boring pictures. That was more or less the gist of my post... And the nuance-lacking mannequins are an important part of what the film is trying to get across. Likewise, the glacial pace. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to look sophisticated. I just think if you don't like the film, you didn't get it. |
Sirduncan said: That was more or less the gist of my post... No, it wasnt. You came into the thread insulting anyone who didnt like the movie by claiming they were flashy animation-junkies who dont have the patience to appreciate a deep story, when infact, I counter-claimed that the movie's story is good on paper but was presented haphazardly. And the nuance-lacking mannequins are an important part of what the film is trying to get across. Likewise, the glacial pace. There's a difference between engaging characters starved of any decent upbringing and emotion, and the plain-faced stoic and utterly boring characters in this story. It is possible to convey a characters plight with a performance, but this movie barely has any performances at all. If it were live action, we could revel in the nuances of the actors' performance, but its not live action, its animated with very generic character designs who only have one expression on their faces (they are human beings and this is Production I.G, not robots and fucking Bee Train) and utterly worthless and tripe dialogue for most of the running time that doesnt bear up for repeat viewings. And what is the point of the glacial pace again? I've already gone into why this movie doesnt work in my review, so there's no need to repeat myself, I only came into the thread to confront your lousy attitude: It seems like you have as difficult a time interpreting the written word as you do film. Unless Oshii is a family member, there's no reason for your zeal and you're just continuing to look foolish. Sirduncan said: I just think if you don't like the film, you didn't get it. That line of thought never goes down well in online debates. I got what it was trying to do and failed. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
| Really, all I was trying to say in my original post was an extension of what I believed the film was trying to say. Also, it was an attempt to provide a counter to what I believed to be the thoughtless contributions to this discussion. A discussion should include thought, or why bother having one? My zeal is also figment of your imagination. I did write that line, the attack, but I deleted it when I thought of the inanity of a personal attack to an anonymous person on the internet. For my momentary lapse, I apologize. So shall we go about this a little more civilly then? A flame war, fun as it would be, is not what I was trying to start here. Just a healthy discussion. I didn't love the film by any means, just taking a position for debate's sake. In response to your point about the boring characters, they are boring because their lives are boring, repetitive, and without meaning. You're right, they could have been more engaging, but I don't think that would be as meaningful, thematically. The characters' portrayal embodies their lives. Do you think that if you were observing them in real life that you'd find them immediately fascinating? Not necessarily, not any more so than you did while watching this. Also, who's to say that real Kildren are capable of nuance? If they aren't then it would be impossible to portray them in a live action movie because a human actor wouldn't be capable of eliminating such nuance from his performance. Maybe I'm being too charitable, but it is open to interpretation. The glacial pace I figured was another thematic decision, to show how utterly slow their lives move. It's a reflection of the characters' apathy and weariness, that their lives appear to be moving at a crawl. Personally, I was never bored. Most, if not all, scenes had interesting points to consider from an animation/CGI perspective, or for the story. Then again, I guess that's just me. |
| To quote your interlocuter's review: Oshii manages to direct the story well without resorting to heavy exposition, the narrative proceeds with characters moving the story forward, but then when that point comes where the story comes to the boil, he resorts to having a character basically waffle revelations and exposition to the viewer. It’s a shame and again relegates anime behind live action movies, most of which would choose to simply continue to let the characters drive the story forward and let the mysteries of the film become apparent more fluidly rather than in the forced anime nature of having a character basically stare at the camera and just give an unnatural speech. This is precisely what popped the bubble of this film for me. I was prepared for it to end with just a sense of enigma, malaise, and a crushingly inescapable deja vu, like something out of a David Lynch film. But that point described by Beatnik above is where the emperor reveals his new clothes... or rather simply overplayed his hand. It was the moment where I decided I simply wasn't enjoying the film, although I still respected the intelligence behind it, somewhat. There are just too many flaws in the execution, and this takes it from being profound and literary to nearly sophomoric posturing; like something you would see in film school. And Oshii is far too experienced for that type of indulgence. |
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| i dont understand the finale of this anime, is to complex, or i am missing something or i need to read the manga, even the characters backgrounds are too complex |
    Sumeragi Kururu - Pledge Queen of Tool Toul To   |
| I really not sure I believe the fact this was a little anti-anime fandom, seemed to be a stretch to me. The movie was more, leave a mark on the world and war is necessary for peace film. I can't tell you why this movie didn't get a 10 from me or a 9, it is just an 8 feels right. |
| My anime list |
mitamaking said: I really not sure I believe the fact this was a little anti-anime fandom, seemed to be a stretch to me. The movie was more, leave a mark on the world and war is necessary for peace film. I remember reading something from an interview by Oshii himself where he states that the movie was intended to be a jab at anime fandom. But then again, I am too lazy to coroborate this, so take it with a pinch of salt. The thing I liked about it, though, was that it had many levels which it could be viewed on. However, like mitamaking said, the Sky Crawlers does not make the cut for a 9 or a 10. An 8 (give or take, depending on mean scores) is just right. |
aranelcharis said: Though I must say I got the feeling this movie was trying too hard to be artsy in a pretentious way. It had the feeling of a modern novel that wants so hard to be a classic Dickens or Austen. More or less what I was thinking, this is all personal preference of course and I have not read the manga. The movie had a message yes, but it took 121 minutes of semi redundant scenes to give the message when I feel that it could have in much less time. The message is on but the delivery kept me wanting. but I have to give credit where credit is due, this movie had its moments and the cgi was beautiful Cebola92 said: Quite good film, but, I did expect Teachers death XD How will lessons be learned if the teacher dies? :D |
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| I was definitely expecting a lot more from the story in this film. I mean~ I thought it was really interesting... but that ending was way too abrupt~ and left a lot to be desired. There were many parts of the story I wanted them to go more in depth with as well~ mainly regarding the conflict (like why they're fighting in the first place, and exactly who they're fighting against. All we're really given is a name~ unless I missed something there). I just would have liked to know a little more. Despite the unsatisfying conclusion, it did keep my attention~ so I'll give it a 7/10 |
jaygold33Jun 10, 2009 6:00 PM
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| I must be used to these sort of films so I enjoyed it very much. I'm not the type of person who thinks too deeply about movies so I didn't feel the need to over analyze anything. All in all, I liked this movie quite a bit because of the airplanes. I ♥ Airplanes. And dogfights. :DDD 8/10 |
 ジリティック♡BEGINNER |
| I must say I'm totally perplexed by that sort of appreciation for this particular anime. There are war films that would be a better use of your time, without the existential BS between dogfights. If that's your bag. If it were mine, I'd still be giving this a 7 because there's not enough airplane porn. |
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| That was amazing. The whole Kildren concept was interesting. |
| Nice film. I like the slow pacing and the idea of interpret things. I think I should watch it again some day. 8/10 |
psygolJul 5, 2009 11:45 AM
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| The look of it was amazing. CGI was fantastic. Watching it in Blu Ray was literally mind blowing. But I didn't really rate the story. :/ |
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| Well it seems a lot of you did not enjoy the story. I for one actually quite enjoyed it! The pacing was perfect for me, and if there was ever a story to be told by Animation this is it. The character design, flight sequences and setting could not be reproduced by actors with any amount of training and blue screens. As for the plot, I enjoyed how the story unfolds very slowly. It was clear where some things were headed half-way in, but they were not made clear until later. While I was still relying on my assumptions the story continued, and would not have had been as enjoyable if I did not guess what was going to happen next. Even after the final dog-fight I was watching to see if he was going to come back or not, I knew what I had seen but the scene continued without definition. I don't what it is about the Kildren, but watching them interact with each other and "adults" was like watching a sick sarcastic joke where no one was laughing. I was saddened and intrigued by their stares, and when they smiled I smiled. If you did not enjoy the movie the first time, and you are not a total add basket-case, I would recommend you sit down with your favorite sipping glass and dedicate a dark-rainy evening to watching this again. |
| Good movie. It had some beautiful CGI and the fights were fantastic. The music was great as well. Not that I expected anything else considering it was by Kawai Kenji. Reminded me of Ghost in the Shell and Gundam 00. As for the story and characters I found them both to be confusing - I didn't even get what the "Kildren" were. Didn't make any sense to me why everyone had a death wish either. It was a slow paced movie, but I wasn't bored. 7/10 |
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| This was an exceptional title. Although I like to lose myself in mindless series on a regular basis, something thought-provoking like Sky Crawlers is good every now and then. My only issue- one I think many will have- is the ending. Well, not the actual ending so much as the climactic dogfight. Despite the experimental nature of their designs, the planes flown in Sky Crawlers had the same capabilities as any prop plane in production. Anyone with a smattering of knowledge of aerial dogfights could see what should have happened. That something scientifically impossible- even in this fictional world, what transpired should not have even been remotely feasible- decided the outcome of such an important conflict is something my brain refuses to accept. It unabashedly shattered the realism the movie had maintained with such strength until that point. Aside from that, I'd have given Sky Crawlers a 10. |
| It was very intersting to look how Oshii's thoughts transformed from GITS (especially Innocence) to TSC. But after watching this anime I was confused about an ending. Shame on me, I've not watched post-credits' episode :/ . Thank you, guys, I'm glad I've watched it only 2 days after the first time. Now it's much better ^^ . Pictures look great, not only sky and planes. One of the greatest effects of the movie is that the whole place, that is somelike lifeless and "pale", makes you feel it is beyond time and space -- past and future are compressed in one point. Characters are very good, their relations touch you deep. My fav among them is Tokino, a-person-who-just-lives-his-life (enjoys it, of course) and has no anxiety, but true inner harmony. This is where he differs very much from other a-person-who-just-lives-his-life characters. As some of us (and me too) think, the plot can be looked at from different points of view. I think, it's more about life in general, than about... anime fans :) (I resist to believe in such thing, it seems to be much deeper). Some passages are clear to me (seem to be logical), but the question that is confusing me even now is: "Why did he want to kill the Teacher, to "step into the unknown"?" 'Cause Yuichi said "...I can't reach the target?" in some kind of flashback, shot Suito and failed to got her. Why THIS was his way to reach the goal.. and WHAT IS the goal? But even without these answers I feel satisfied enough. The Sky Crawlers definitely deserves 8/10 or even 8.5/10, not less... but not more. |
MaxCrankOct 8, 2009 12:56 PM
| I really liked this anime. I am a little confused about the whole thing, so I will probably watch it again. The mix of CGI and animation was amazing! I really admired the animation and sound effects. And the plot line. |
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