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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- First half felt slightly slow but I think it was mostly the mind games and strategies that were going on. Poor Baby Magnum... The boys just never get a break. Object configuration for the Bright Hopper  So-so episode. While the pacing felt a bit odd, it did have a few moments. Qwenthur and Frolaytia has some weird chemistry lol. |
Stark700Dec 18, 2015 8:58 AM
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| Poor Frolaytia, being seen as an object.(heh) Of course her uterus would absolutely be a huge prize for ANY man regardless of the male heir thing. :D |
animefan8800 said: ThisPoor Frolaytia, being seen as an object.(heh) Of course her uterus would absolutely be a huge prize for ANY man regardless of the male heir thing. :D Loved the strategic stuff going on in this episode as well |
VanishingKira said: Frolaytia's ass heavily focused on this episode. Seriously, it felt like every other shot was focusing on that. Anyway, besides Frolaytia and Qwenthur's conversation about how she's viewed by her family, there was a lot of intense stuff going on in this episode. Hopefully Qwenthur gets the prediction correct (he most likely will, lets face it). |
| People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime. Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait. MAL is literally just anime Twitter as its own website lol. |
| I'm sorry for being slow, but if only males are produced how was she made? Assume a male from her family got some next chick from another family pregnant with her then doesn't that mean all males aren't produced because the dude's seed was ability to make a girl. Or let's say her mom from the family got some next dude from another family to knock her up and thus produced a girl, then that means the mom was able to give birth to a girl. But then where did her mom (a woman) come from in the first place? WHAT AM I MISSING HERE? |
Inugirlz said: I'm sorry for being slow, but if only males are produced how was she made? Assume a male from her family got some next chick from another family pregnant with her then doesn't that mean all males aren't produced because the dude's seed was ability to make a girl. Or let's say her mom from the family got some next dude from another family to knock her up and thus produced a girl, then that means the mom was able to give birth to a girl. But then where did her mom (a woman) come from in the first place? WHAT AM I MISSING HERE? I'm pretty sure the women of the family, Frolaytia's mother included, married into the family rather than being conceived within it. As for Frolaytia herself, she did say that the children are ALMOST always male, so I suppose she's just an exception to the rule. Decent episode in any case, a significant improvement on last week's (I think it was last week's) episode. |
| The enemy's a tough one, having a weapon that can travel at speeds of Mach 25 is insane. No wonder that Bright Hopper was easily destroyed and thanks to Qwenthur's quick thinking, it saved Milinda and Baby Magnum from heavy damage. It must suck to be in Frolaytia's shoes right now. Coming from a family that are almost entirely of men, it's kind of depressing to hear that there are random people who are desperate to be her fiancé, just so they can bang her all they want. If Havia heard her back story, he would be breaking someone's head right about now... Even during Frolaytia's explanation, the show does love to focus on her lovely backside, pretty much fitting in with her back story. ^^; Either way, let's hope Qwenthur makes the right choice and can defeat this hidden enemy ASAP. |
danieltortoisee said: This is of course ignoring the fact that sex determination is left with the male. Women have two "X" chromosomes men have have both a "Y" and an "X" chromosome. Some regardless of whether or not her family is notorious for producing male children, her gender automatically forfeits this for her and, once again, this rests on the shoulders of her suitor and not her family's so-called trait. I must say that was hard to watch. That has got to be one of the worst reasons a rich girl has gone to the military or decided to work abroad. The should've just kept it at the fact she's nobility and her family is one of the elite of the elite and there fore they want to marry their way into it. But, of course when dealing with the concept of nobility it completely ignores the fact that even under the circumstances of manually adjusting the baby's genes/sex they'll still put so much stock in the fact "it's a girl". Not to mention the fact this isn't the 19th century. Overall, it did nothing but suck up time in an episode that felt rather hard to follow. Perhaps because I'm simply losing interest and barely remembered the previous episode.Inugirlz said: I'm sorry for being slow, but if only males are produced how was she made? Assume a male from her family got some next chick from another family pregnant with her then doesn't that mean all males aren't produced because the dude's seed was ability to make a girl. Or let's say her mom from the family got some next dude from another family to knock her up and thus produced a girl, then that means the mom was able to give birth to a girl. But then where did her mom (a woman) come from in the first place? WHAT AM I MISSING HERE? I'm pretty sure the women of the family, Frolaytia's mother included, married into the family rather than being conceived within it. As for Frolaytia herself, she did say that the children are ALMOST always male, so I suppose she's just an exception to the rule. Decent episode in any case, a significant improvement on last week's (I think it was last week's) episode. |
QWERTYFish25Dec 18, 2015 12:07 PM
| Far too much techno-babble in this episode. I felt like someone reading an instruction manual. Not a great episode really, getting to know a bit more about Frolaytia was a plus though. |
| My God.... Frolaytia past looked kinda dark to me. Mind battle again i guess, i kinda like it.... DAT cliffhanger though.... not bad. |
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| First half was so-so. Not really interested in all the technological talk. Second half was really good with Frolaytia speaking about herself. |
| At least it was interesting to get to know more about Frolaytia's background. Kinda sad tbh. First half made me sleep x) |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Things got pretty crazy in that first half. Dat Frolaytia ass was all over this episode. It's a pretty nice ass. Felt really bad for her. The battlefield is the only place where she has any freedom :( |
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| I feel so sorry for Frolaytia. I wanna save her from these terrible aristocrats, especially since they're scientifically wrong. It's the man's sperm that determines the child's sex, not the woman's egg. |
| This was definitely a slower pace episode but that is how it usually has been for this as they build up to the big boom which I think will be the next episode by the looks of it. It was pretty interesting to see the chemistry between Frolaytia and Qwenthur as we learn more about Frolaytia and wow they just want her for her uterus lol interesting thing to say. Also what was up with all those fanservice shots of Frolaytia not that I mind, it was just funny to see them literally all over the episode with just random butt shots lol. Well like I said before it was a slower paced episode which made it a so so episode in my opinion but I'm sure its just all the build up to the next episode which I cant wait for to see how Qwenthur and Frolaytia destroy the object and how will Havia stop those people from destroying the dam. Here is my full review on the episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1652NidZJY&feature=youtu.be |
| This show continues to surprise me, in a good way. Just when you think it can't get any worse, they take the most fan service laden character aside for almost four minutes of dedicated actual character development. Seriously, it is quite an accomplishment to combine this amount of fan service with raw satire and protest against objectification. This series has gone beyond it! Love said: lol they showed her butt on purpose like at least 3 times. aside that, great episode and cliffhanger ;-; They were consistently focussing needlessly on different parts of her body throughout the episode. Some shots were a bit more subtle than others though (neckline, ears, etc.). QWERTYFish25 said: This is of course ignoring the fact that sex determination is left with the male. Women have two "X" chromosomes men have have both a "Y" and an "X" chromosome. Some regardless of whether or not her family is notorious for producing male children, her gender automatically forfeits this for her and, once again, this rests on the shoulders of her suitor and not her family's so-called trait. I must say that was hard to watch. straggy said: It's the man's sperm that determines the child's sex, not the woman's egg. Both of you are right, yet fail to see one critical point. If a man is entirely unfertile, no children will be produced at all, and it is true that with unfertile couples, most often the male is to blame. When it comes to determining the sex however,.. The man's chromosomes determine the sex of the child, but most men will deliver both X's and Y's in a single load. What really determines the child's sex, is which particular seed is able to reach and penetrate the egg. This is pretty much were science, or at least our understanding of it, ends. Who is to say whay influence the woman (subconsciously/genetically) has on deciding which seed is allowed to do so? ;-P |
| "I'm a middle schooler bartender!" - Mishima Hitomi |
Laionidas said: This show continues to surprise me, in a good way. Just when you think it can't get any worse, they take the most fan service laden character aside for almost four minutes of dedicated actual character development. Seriously, it is quite an accomplishment to combine this amount of fan service with raw satire and protest against objectification. This series has gone beyond it! Love said: lol they showed her butt on purpose like at least 3 times. aside that, great episode and cliffhanger ;-; They were consistently focussing needlessly on different parts of her body throughout the episode. Some shots were a bit more subtle than others though (neckline, ears, etc.). QWERTYFish25 said: This is of course ignoring the fact that sex determination is left with the male. Women have two "X" chromosomes men have have both a "Y" and an "X" chromosome. Some regardless of whether or not her family is notorious for producing male children, her gender automatically forfeits this for her and, once again, this rests on the shoulders of her suitor and not her family's so-called trait. I must say that was hard to watch. straggy said: It's the man's sperm that determines the child's sex, not the woman's egg. Both of you are right, yet fail to see one critical point. If a man is entirely unfertile, no children will be produced at all, and it is true that with unfertile couples, most often the male is to blame. When it comes to determining the sex however,.. The man's chromosomes determine the sex of the child, but most men will deliver both X's and Y's in a single load. What really determines the child's sex, is which particular seed is able to reach and penetrate the egg. This is pretty much were science, or at least our understanding of it, ends. Who is to say whay influence the woman (subconsciously/genetically) has on deciding which seed is allowed to do so? ;-P *Rolls eyes, this isn't a supernatural show. To justify her drive to escape the family soley on the fact that she's royalty, and to make er even more preferential on that level by making it seem she'll almost definitely produce male children is just bullshit. They should've just played it straight and made her hate the idea her family is prestigious and are willing to make a quick buck by selling her off to another wealthy family. The attempt fails by telling bogus ideas of the female determining the child's gender. Also the idea of marrying her because she's a woman does nothing help an infertile male. Regarding where "science ends"; thing is, millions of sperm bombard an egg. One or three cells may dig at one area until number four zips right past them, "taking advantage" of the weakened barrier. I would say probability of a male child being born exist with the overall amount of "Y" designated sperm present, that however, doesn't mean you will have a male child rather it makes it more likely. My stepfather had my sister, and two other daughters on a second marriage, the fourth child was male. He could've easily just had "shit" luck and been abundant with "Y" designated cells the whole time. Unless the family is highly religious or something, a male heir could be predetermined by a procedure, the fact that this takes place in the future only makes this more probably, but even then the idea of Fro (I'm not spelling out that name another cheesy Japanese attempt to sound cool using an uncommon western name which is unnecessarily eccentric) being the key factor in this is total bullshit and a failed attempt at adding dept to a very bland character, hell all of them are bland and the lack of action takes away from the show. The techno babble was excessive and didn't really feel engaging, maybe be the fault that the episode cut there but honestly, this is just another sow with very typical archetypes that are very predictable, at last in the broad sense. You knew right away the MC wasn't gonna leave the girl to die, even if it meant risking the lives of others, and there was no practicality behind it, such is the risk of being captured and torture for intel or the BM remains being studied, well OBJ. do self-destruct when disabled so, meh. |
| I'm happy, that was the only thing that was lacking on this show so far for me, some character development ! |
| Great episode! I love how their battles change to different objects & situations, etc.., didn't expect this. Frolaytia told about her sad life and why she chose to stay in the war-zones... Poor girl :/ Qwenthur & Frolaytia would do a great couple :D :D hahaha Can't wait for next episode! |
"There is no such thing as an Anime elitist. You watch Anime, therefore, you are trash by society's standards." |
| wow that was fucking intense and those assholes are going to kill many people by destrying that dam Frolaytia ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
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| Mach 25 is greater than orbital velocity in Low Earth Orbit. Those missiles must be awful tough if they're going to avoid melting between point A and point B! Also, wouldn't you be able to locate the enemy object by tracing back the plasma trails? |
| *Strips off Clothes* I volunteer.. I volunteer as tribute to marry Miss Froylatia!!! Jokes aside, that "RUUNN!" dialogue gave me chills like damn.. Found myself running upstairs Also, I am kind of Glad that Floylatia escaped from that Noble life. Being used as a birth machine is worse than being on the battlefield |
ElectricRedDec 19, 2015 1:02 AM
QWERTYFish25 said: (...) Just answer this one question: did you click the spoilertag or not? |
| "I'm a middle schooler bartender!" - Mishima Hitomi |
| Froylatia's anatomy was the star of this episode. It's pretty funny how she kept talking about her 'objectification', while half the episode was doing precisely just that. I'm sure she'll sell a ton of figures |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| Decent episode. Those missiles are no joke, holy shit. Mach 25. Besides that, it was interesting to learn more about Frolaytia's background. Talk about a shit life. Poor her ): |
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AivanK said: Frolaytia probably needs a hug, but knowing her, she would reject your request for permission. (^o^);;Frolaytia told about her sad life and why she chose to stay in the war-zones... Poor girl :/ Qwenthur & Frolaytia would do a great couple :D :D hahaha Possible romantic triangle between Quenthur, Milinda and Frolaytia developing, or am I thinking into this a bit too much? ElectricRed said: If I were doing the subs for this ep, I'd go all caps and italicized with plenty of U's, N's and exclamation points to stretch across the screen in a single line.Jokes aside, that "RUUNN!" dialogue gave me chills like damn.. Found myself running upstairs |
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Reverberate__ said: Decent episode. Those missiles are no joke, holy shit. Mach 25. It's absolutely ridiculous, Mach 25 = 25 x speed of sound = (+/-) 30 870 (km/h) or 514 500 (m/s) It would probably:
- ignite the air around it - be useless to use a rocket motor to help achieve this velocity, because no shell mounted rocket motor would produce enough torque unless the starting velocity was allready so high, no motor would survive intact - sure as hell not be able to have its trajectory adjusted mid flight by some mechanism, assuming the mechanism would survive in the first place - require an insane amount of energy to be fired, not even produceable by an Object - produce enough recoil to send the weapons platfrom straight from England to Australia, down through the earth's core HockeyKamen said: Possible romantic triangle between Quenthur, Milinda and Frolaytia developing, or am I thinking into this a bit too much?. I think you are. Quenthur is too dense to even see Milinda, who's miles behind Frolaytia in terms of maturity. The way she calls him a genius for his flirting remark also suggest she's not serious about it. She opened up to him because she needed a friend, nothing more. Havia on the other hand has actually shown some interest in her, and even he isn't getting anywhere. |
| "I'm a middle schooler bartender!" - Mishima Hitomi |
Laionidas said: I read it, I was just making my point. I think I may have wrote that with the effect of me thinking you were actually taken by that. Sorry bro.QWERTYFish25 said: (...) Just answer this one question: did you click the spoilertag or not? Laionidas said: I didn't even peep that, It seemed a little awkward when I heard it....Reverberate__ said: Decent episode. Those missiles are no joke, holy shit. Mach 25. It's absolutely ridiculous, Mach 25 = 25 x speed of sound = (+/-) 30 870 (km/h) or 514 500 (m/s) It would probably: |
| never get bored with frolaytia's body lolxD |
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Laionidas said: Reverberate__ said: Decent episode. Those missiles are no joke, holy shit. Mach 25. It's absolutely ridiculous, Mach 25 = 25 x speed of sound = (+/-) 30 870 (km/h) or 514 500 (m/s) It would probably:
- ignite the air around it - be useless to use a rocket motor to help achieve this velocity, because no shell mounted rocket motor would produce enough torque unless the starting velocity was allready so high, no motor would survive intact - sure as hell not be able to have its trajectory adjusted mid flight by some mechanism, assuming the mechanism would survive in the first place - require an insane amount of energy to be fired, not even produceable by an Object - produce enough recoil to send the weapons platfrom straight from England to Australia, down through the earth's core I don't know if the numbers are right, but: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/BGH/hihyper.html |
HockeyKamen said: Possible romantic triangle between Quenthur, Milinda and Frolaytia developing, or am I thinking into this a bit too much? You're probably right on the mark. Considering the author, Quenthur is definitely going to get a large harem like Touma. He's going to defeat enemy after enemy, and the females will all be shown as people who can be redeemed and will join his harem, while the males will all be shown as blatantly, irrecoverably evil and corrupt villains who will all die/get fired/mysteriously disappear/insert other bad things to make sure character never appears again. But hey that makes it funny, so whatever lol. XD |
| This show has really nice scenery porn - for a 24 episode show the animation overall is really good outside some particle/water effects. Nice character development for Frolaytia. The enemy's new weapon is OP as fuck. |
eXtacy67 said: Well we see Frolaytia cosplay as Kaori Kanzaki(Index) next? They share the same seiyuu after all. :-DNice character development for Frolaytia. eXtacy67 said: Yep. How will Baby Magnum be able to battle it in its state after Bright Hopper got pwn3d the way it did?The enemy's new weapon is OP as fuck. |
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eXtacy67 said: This show has really nice scenery porn - for a 24 episode show the animation overall is really good outside some particle/water effects. Nice character development for Frolaytia. The enemy's new weapon is OP as fuck. Dat CG water though, much wave, many wow! |
| "I'm a middle schooler bartender!" - Mishima Hitomi |
| @ Laionidas & QWERTYFish25: I totally agree with you two, but there is actually one theory that can support the whole ~100% male guarantee with the woman being the determining factor. I forget what I was watching at the time, but the women's immune system plays a role as well. It's probably already been tested unless it can't be tested, but it may be possible for a woman's immune system to target the xx chromosomes above the xy chromosomes and visa versa. Of course, I highly doubt the immune system could tell the difference. It would be more reasonable to believe that the ~100% male guarantee ended with her instead, so it was unreasonable to think she could do the same as her male ancestors anyway. It hasn't been stated how many brothers she has, or if she has any to speak of. So, it's possible her father didn't have the trait. |
ReloadDec 21, 2015 2:11 AM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
Reload said: That should've played the part of covering up that hole (no pun intended) I'll look it up).@ Laionidas & QWERTYFish25: I totally agree with you two, but there is actually one theory that can support the whole ~100% male guarantee with the woman being the determining factor. I forget what I was watching at the time, but the women's immune system plays a role as well. It's probably already been tested unless it can't be tested, but it may be possible for a woman's immune system to target the xx chromosomes above the xy chromosomes and visa versa. Of course, I highly doubt the immune system could tell the difference. It would be more reasonable to believe that the ~100% male guarantee ended with her instead, so it was unreasonable to think she could do the same as her male ancestors anyway. It hasn't been stated how many brothers she has, or if she has any to speak of. So, it's possible her father didn't have the trait. Edit: Just skimming I've seen people say the woman's body determines the winner. Perhaps one can conclude something with regards to what you added. But that should've expressed that since it tastes like bullshit to anyone with a basic understanding. |
QWERTYFish25Dec 21, 2015 7:40 AM
FiveOVER said: Laionidas said: It's absolutely ridiculous, Mach 25 = 25 x speed of sound = (+/-) 30 870 (km/h) or 514 500 (m/s) It would probably:
- ignite the air around it - be useless to use a rocket motor to help achieve this velocity, because no shell mounted rocket motor would produce enough torque unless the starting velocity was allready so high, no motor would survive intact - sure as hell not be able to have its trajectory adjusted mid flight by some mechanism, assuming the mechanism would survive in the first place - require an insane amount of energy to be fired, not even produceable by an Object - produce enough recoil to send the weapons platfrom straight from England to Australia, down through the earth's core I don't know if the numbers are right, but: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/BGH/hihyper.html I'm sure that a projectile could survive those speeds and temperatures if it were properly shielded except for a couple things: 1) The density of the lower atmosphere is exponentially greater than the density that a reentering space shuttle would experience at those speeds. Like, 10,000-100,000 greater. That would either slow the projectile down a lot due to friction, or if it could maintain those speeds, it would increase the temperatures experienced a lot. 2) Any object moving that fast through the air (especially through dense air) would cause the air itself to turn into florescent plasma. You could not fire this gun without immediately revealing your position, because there would be glowing ion trails in the air that led straight back to you. This may be acceptable if you're facing only one target and can definitely take it out in one shot, but against two or more targets it would become a serious liability. Especially if the rate of fire is low. |
| 90% of this episode's budget went of Frolaytia's ass. Her backstory's is surprisingly dark. 4/5 |
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Laionidas said: Reverberate__ said: Decent episode. Those missiles are no joke, holy shit. Mach 25. It's absolutely ridiculous, Mach 25 = 25 x speed of sound = (+/-) 30 870 (km/h) or 514 500 (m/s) Your math is wrong. Mach 25 ~ 30000 km/h ~ 8500 m/s It's in the ultrasonic range, which could theoretically still work for missle/blunt shaped projectiles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_speed |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
PaleBlue said: FiveOVER said: I don't know if the numbers are right, but: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/BGH/hihyper.html I'm sure that a projectile could survive those speeds and temperatures if it were properly shielded except for a couple things: 1) The density of the lower atmosphere is exponentially greater than the density that a reentering space shuttle would experience at those speeds. Like, 10,000-100,000 greater. That would either slow the projectile down a lot due to friction, or if it could maintain those speeds, it would increase the temperatures experienced a lot. 2) Any object moving that fast through the air (especially through dense air) would cause the air itself to turn into florescent plasma. You could not fire this gun without immediately revealing your position, because there would be glowing ion trails in the air that led straight back to you. This may be acceptable if you're facing only one target and can definitely take it out in one shot, but against two or more targets it would become a serious liability. Especially if the rate of fire is low. The railgun is used to position the shell 2500 meters above the target. It is only after that, the rocket engine is activated in nosedive position to achieve the mach 25 speed. So its not like firing it would immediately reveal the Object's position. That would also solve the problem of wasting energy to alter the trajectory. |
| That first half was pretty interesting, imo. I dunno about a missile traveling at Mach 25, but I'm not smart so eh. Sounds cool and seems pretty dangerous. I feel like you guys are missing the whole point about Frolaytia to try to prove a point. Her family produces mostly males, which is what nobles tend to go for as their heirs. So with Frolaytia's family having a coincidental 'ability' to produce mostly boys, horny (old) noblemen are after her so they can use her to produce a heir. And her family is 100% okay with putting her up for auction so they can get a profile from selling off their daughter. She's literally being treated as an object (as the other comment said). It's not about HOW it happens. It's about why. And ffs, it's an anime with giant rolling balls that fire lasers and shit at each other. You guys are going to nitpick about a a character's background story that's just slightly silly? The screen pans over her body wasn't that necessary, but it was mostly during her talk about them being only after her body, so it kinda works for it. Anyways, that was a rude ass cliffhanger. My bet is on the left tunnel. |
Friends are there to lend a hand when you can’t do something on your own. It’s not one person doing all the work protecting everyone, we help each other when in need. That’s what friends are for.  |
ElectricRed said: *Strips off Clothes* I volunteer.. I volunteer as tribute to marry Miss Froylatia!!! Jokes aside, that "RUUNN!" dialogue gave me chills like damn.. Found myself running upstairs Also, I am kind of Glad that Floylatia escaped from that Noble life. Being used as a birth machine is worse than being on the battlefield That scene was great. I like how the deafening noise of the after effects of the Railgun continued for a solid full minute whenever Qwenthur and Havia were on screen. |
| That golden Uterus :O Poor Froylatia, her family is used as a birth farm for privileged males :'( That weapon :O They should build one in real life to send up stuff to space :) Just build a huge ass firing cannon and you're set. Inugirlz said: I'm sorry for being slow, but if only males are produced how was she made? WHAT AM I MISSING HERE? ALMOST all children are born male, that means that during all the times that woman gives birth at least 1 female is born. Which makes sense since the woman will have alot of children so more chances for a female child. |
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wakka9ca said: Your math is wrong. Mach 25 ~ 30000 km/h ~ 8500 m/s It's in the ultrasonic range, which could theoretically still work for missle/blunt shaped projectiles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_speed Wow, so lame, I forgot that in between hours and seconds, there are minutes. I should stahp doing maths at night with drinks. |
| "I'm a middle schooler bartender!" - Mishima Hitomi |
| There was a small cliffhanger on the end, it smells like it anyway. Overall good episode with again a lot of thinking. It's nice to see that this is not another mindless "shoot-kill" anime. |
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| Frolaytia's past was dark. For once they had some big problems, but as usual Havia and Qwenthur will save the day. |
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