Dragon Ball Super Episode 27 Discussion

MoeGod said:


Frieza had already returned to his original form, which was already weaker than normal Goku to begin with at this point. A decent Kamehameha from a Saiyan God would be more than enough to destroy him. I don't think the fact that Frieza has enough Ki to destroy the Earth has anything to do with his body endurance.

As far as DB is concern, we've seen no correlation between physical strength and Ki potential. I mean Kid Buu has the power to destroy Earth with a simple blast but in the end he got obliterated by an attack that didn't destroy Earth despite it containing the energy of most humans on the planet. Such was the case with Cell too who was destroyed by a man-made explosion (since technically Gero created the self-destructing device that Cell had) and then later his Super Perfect form was destroyed by Gohan's not-so-destructive-to-Earth Kamehameha. So really, I don't see why anyone would start complaining now. I'm starting to think it's because the title is "Super" instead of "Z".

Snaita said:

"we've seen no correlation between physical strength and Ki potential" really? So they just train the body cause they like it?
"Frieza had already returned to his original form which was already weaker than normal Goku to begin with", that isn't even his original form and Frieza gets stronger too, that's his final form which was obliterated by his blast on Namek and still survived.
"I mean Kid Buu has the power to destroy Earth with a simple blast but in the end he got obliterated by an attack that didn't destroy Earth despite it containing the energy of most humans on the planet." and "later his Super Perfect form was destroyed by Gohan's not-so-destructive-to-Earth Kamehameha" those are two of the instances where you see that both the attacks fly of the Earth not against it, why did you think Goku instant-trasmission Kameaha was pointed to the sky? In this episode the attack is pointed directly to the ground(Earth), never in Z a Kameaha was pointed to the ground, I don't get it have you really watched the whole franchise? Those peculiarities made DBZ unique.
I'm starting to think it's because the title is "Super" instead of "Z", don't really care, just that one is clearly inferior to the other... you can compare on the staff hired, score, popularity, censorship, everything.

Snaita said:

It's a valid question... During the series it was made clear that Goku and the others always point their attacks to the air so that they don't destroy the planet, that was one of the things that Dragon Ball original excel at, comparing other animes where MC's damage everything without knowing if the planet or people die. You can't simply use Ki control as an answer for huge flaws that this sequel has.
Even more, if the Kameaha kills resurrected Frieza and Frieza can destroy Earth how come Earth would come out "unscathed" by the blast that kills Frieza? It's just that Toei isn't even trying anymore as long the sales are good they won't do shit to fix inconsistencies in the story or in the animation which is just sad.

MoeGod said:


Funny you asked me if I've actually seen the series.

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v35/c222/2.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v35/c222/13.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c322/6.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c322/13.html

Tell me, were those attacks pointed at the sky? because I'm pretty sure in both instances the ground were destroyed. Are you sure you aren't the one who hasn't been paying attention? in every case of adaption the manga is cannon so if Z was different then it was simply the director's/script writer's changing it on their will.

And my point still stands, there's a difference between physical strength and physical endurance. Just in this episode alone we saw Goku got hurt because of a simple ray gun. Are you really not able to tell the difference between training your raw strength (which does increase your ki) and the body's ability to take punishment (which really has nothing to do with ki). I mean seriously, if we're using your logic then almost every enemy in DB had to be defeated with planet-shattering attack and Earth would've been destroyed a loooooong time ago.

Only people clouded with nostalgia will say Z is superior in every way. Granted Super is not a masterpiece but it's not like Z was. It also had terrible animation and worse, bad directing and filler-laden episodes. It's truly a curse that old series like Dragon Ball or Sailor Moon had to follow the old standard instead of being modernized, which results in seemingly inferior product compared to the original.

ezodagrom said:

Goku's attack stopped/exploded after a certain distance, but even if it kept going, it was fired at an angle that would get nowhere close to the core of the planet.
Frieza used a beam directly torwards the core of the planet.

Snaita said:

The problem is that Freeza should have survived the attack if it only makes a small hole on the ground and that an attack capable of destroying Frieza would have to be pointed to the air or in front(for the picky ones) so not to destroy Earth. Like with Cell and Buu.

Snaita said:

I don't get it, don't you see that those links you commented show the attacks going off Earth, not inside it? Have you noticed that our planet is round... they go to the atmosphere.
"difference between physical strength and physical endurance" still the ki thing? You train your strength your physical endurance gets improved depending on your training it's that simple, ki boosts strength therefore endurance.
"I mean seriously, if we're using your logic then almost every enemy in DB had to be defeated with planet-shattering attack and Earth would've been destroyed a loooooong time ago." where did my logic lead you to this conclusion? You are the one that said that ki and strenght have no correlation, now instead of strength is the endurance? Make up your mind. Ki boosts strength but not that much to destroy a planet, remember they fight for hours if they could destroy a planet with a punch they would be almost drained after only one punch.
Again you haven't paid attention ray gun is not weak, it's a penetrative type attack it makes a whole/damage in everything even when blocked, usually it can't be deflected. The problem is it being predictable and have a small radius unlike Kameaha.
Well you can twist what I say all you want, I no longer will take part in it. It's sad, DBZ was an anime that I would hesitate to show to children now Super on the other hand they can watch all they want after Pokemon or some sh*t like that.

MoeGod said:


LOL seriously??? are you even using your brain? Helloooo.. is Newton still alive? somebody needs to teach this kid a thing or two about gravity. You seem to be suggesting that the Kamehameha goes on and on and on around the round Earth until it finally goes into the atmosphere even though they weren't even pointed at the sky.

Let's take Cell's case for example. How long do you think it needs to travel at a NEARLY VERTICAL angle (since it grazed the earth) before it goes to the atmosphere? do you know how far an object has to travel upwards before it can escape gravity? are you aware that the Earth's diameter is god damn long? that attack was clearly pointed NOT at the sky but almost ground level. By your logic it would keep traveling, destroying buildings, mountains, and such until it finally reaches a height where it can escape Earth's gravity yet was there any indication of such thing in the DB world? in fact the following panels & chapter after Cell's destruction, it was all quiet and the Earth went into peace pretty quickly. No news of destruction by the still traveling Kamehameha. In fact, if you reaaaaaaaaaaallly look at the panel you can CLEARLY see the ground shaped like the head part of a Kamehameha, why do you think that is? why wasn't the ground shaped like a veeery long kamehameha that kept going to the sky?

How about Buu then? well for this one I suggest you look for an ophthalmologist. Goku fired the energy ball from ABOVE towards Buu on the GROUND. Tell me, my dear Einstein, how on earth an attack that's directed diagonally TOWARDS the Earth can go into the atmosphere as you suggested? are you suggesting that the energy ball changed direction as it hit the ground? wow the Earth is one sturdy (and bouncy) motherfucker. You seemed to be unable to accept the fact that the energy ball quickly dissipated after it obliterated Buu (leaving a crater on earth but not destroying it) and instead deluded yourself into thinking it went to the sky. Please, do point me where in the following panels did you see any trails of energy bomb going into the sky.

Now before we go round and round let me make this clear. I said that Ki has almost no correlation with physical strength. What I meant by physical strength means your RAW physical power AND your body's ability to take punishment/endurance (not same as stamina, mind you). Clearly you failed to separate the two. When the characters trained their body raising their physical & mental capabilities they also raise their Ki, as is the case with Vegeta and Frieza who reached higher form through intense training. However that does NOT mean it raised their body's endurance to unreasonable level. You seem to misunderstand that Frieza can only be destroyed by attacks that would leave Earth on the bring of destruction but that couldn't be further than the truth. Stop making stupid assumptions like the ray gun was a penetrative attack with small radius because god damn, the next thing you know you'd be justifying Tien Shin Han damaging Beerus' little brother with Dodon Ray. Why should a conventional ray gun be more dangerous than a simple Kamehameha by a Saiyan God just because it's "a penetrative attack with small radius"? if Goku can be hurt by that ray gun, Frieza can get killed by a normal Kamehameha (that doesn't destroy Earth). Even the strongest man on Earth will die if a terrorist blows him up with a bomb. That's the kind of logic that has been used throughout Dragon Ball. How else do you think extremely strong enemies were defeated with very little damage on Earth? please don't say that they went into the sky because they clearly didn't. Whether you say those attacks went into the sky or pointed to the front, they would create problems as I've explained above.

ezodagrom said:

Not only was Freeza very weakened at that point, it was a similar angle to the spirit bomb that killed Buu.

Snaita said:

Sincerily I haven't read what you wrote beyond the first paragraph
"LOL seriously??? are you even using your brain? Helloooo.. is Newton still alive? somebody needs to teach this kid a thing or two about gravity. You seem to be suggesting that the Kamehameha goes on and on and on around the round Earth until it finally goes into the atmosphere even though they weren't even pointed at the sky."
the reason I won't dignify to read the rest is simple. Again you shown you have sh*t for brains or are too clouded to understand what I wrote... I said the attacks were pointed to the sky, you said no they were pointed to the ground. I than had to say that the earth is round so that you could comprehend that the attacks were shot in a way that a chunk of ground would get caught in the way but ultimately the Kameaha would exit to space(cause Earth is round) and would you look at that, for it go to space it would need to pass through the sky first... I could be a teacher I didn't even needed to wake Newton up from his grave ah... I'm sorry you had to write a testament so big and had to modify it. Still just watch it and you'll get it eventually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5aexPE8x4E

By the way here's a piece of candy, "Only people clouded with nostalgia will say Z is superior in every way. Granted Super is not a masterpiece but it's not like Z was. It also had terrible animation and worse, bad directing and filler-laden episodes. It's truly a curse that old series like Dragon Ball or Sailor Moon had to follow the old standard instead of being modernized, which results in seemingly inferior product compared to the original."
it's not being clouded by nostalgia, that's an argument that people who started watching anime a year ago usually say. For starters, DBZ when came out it had awesome animation the only problem was the pace and that was taken care of in DBZ Kai and even so it was a pioneir of Shounen anime. If you like Super so much just look to the awesome Producer it has you will notice he's majority of works were Smile Precure animes now go see the Producer of Kai who was the director of Yuu Yuu Hakusho and compare who's better.

Tokoya said:
I'm just hoping that the next arc doesn't have shit art

Apparently Gohan decided to go train again but I'm not getting my hopes up

OrangeJP said:
Trunks can predict the future



Gohan is finally going to stop being a pussy and become badass again just like when he defeated Cell

Dzsoz182 said:
Vegeta is back in business XD

On a side note, I hope Piccolo was not eating that food that was in his hand...I mean...Namekians are not supposed to eat anything, right?