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Mouloxas said: And they don't have to go full edge mode to show that he's a racist that hates demons and gods. I just think it’s wrong to confuse his duty as a king and his personality, these are not the same, being king binds him and puts him outside of the crowd. A king is judged differently. Like when people said that he was an asshole for imprisoning Nina – but Nina took part in a terrorist attack and an assassination attempt at an authority that cost lives. He’d have been much more of an asshole as a king if he hadn’t imprisoned her, and this responsibility is more important than his feelings. So why is he racist? I mean this exact word. A lot of insults are thrown at the character, but many of them don’t make sense. As a person Charioce clearly isn’t. If he was interested in torturing demons for fun he could have torture fairs around his throne all days of the week, but he doesn’t, instead he chastises Kaisar for not looking properly at a fight in the coliseum, because it’s not respectful to the demon fighters. And he talks to Dante and Belphegor before ordering to attack them. It’s obvious that he recognises personalities and value in demons, but yeah, he pits them in coliseum because it gives him bonus support points for his riskier plans. He works for humans and humans alone. You don't necessary need to be racist to wage a war on someone too or hate someone for that matter. Additionally let’s not forget that their level of development is Middle Ages, and slavery wasn’t seen the same way as it is now. Hell, colonialism lasted way into XX century. The setting is modernized, but not completely, so bashing Charioce, say, for being an absolute monarch in absolute monarchy (I love the argument that he suppresses free speech, for example) or a conqueror in a pre-globalization period isn’t exactly fair. And this is going a bit far, but I honestly would be very surprised to learn that demons in their world don’t use slaves, that’s just too much their style. Mouloxas said: Also, i may be wrong on that one, but didn't they use hostages to draw out Azazel in one of the earlier episodes? EDIT: I went back and checked, and he actually did. In episode 3, Charioce had brought some demon hostages in the town square, was torturing them and threatening to behead them one by one until the rag demon came out. Yeah, they used hostages to draw out Azazel, who has been running amok in the capital for a while and whom they have failed to catch in another way. They evacuated humans and set up an operation. That’s a sound plan, as far I know such things are still practised in war situations. The most surprising thing is that they actually didn’t kill any of the demons. They zapped one demon with a green field, but we know that the field is painful, but doesn’t have lasting effects. Basically the king, for whom killing demons is not new at all, just ran around a bunch of them and shouted. That’s a lot of self-restraint, and it’s even illogical – they could’ve started to kill them to get to business faster and, most importantly, make demons hate Azazel. Mouloxas said: See, that's what i hate. The fact that we view the demons with some prejudice compared to the other races. As i've already said, humans are doing the same things demons did back in season 1 But, er, that’s the point – demons did this in season 1, i.e. first. Favaro was earning money by fighting dangerous demons who killed humans. Azazel did whatever to people’s lives for centuries. Then demons continued to do the same after the war as seen in Jeanne’s flashback. I seriously doubt that individual humans invaded demon cities and killed through them – they just couldn’t technically. And we haven’t seen demons doing anything good for humans at all, actually we haven’t even seen them doing anything else, so the hate isn’t unfounded. That is partially because of poor writing, but the facts stand. Mouloxas said: You know, Azazel has shown way more emotion and acts way more human than Charioce has ever done in the entirety of this show. He fought all alone in the beginning, he really cares about his demon brethren, he has lost many of his comrades, he would cry for an angel, he would fall into despair. Azazel sure has shown a lot of feelings. And sadly Charioce hasn’t – I don’t know why they always make him so static. But Azazel hasn’t expressed any remorse over killing humans or gotten to the idea that him messing their lives also contributed to the animosity towards demons. He has learned to compromise a bit, because he is down, but it doesn’t look like he has stopped being murderous. Now he is racist as a person – he has no empathy for humans, because they’re inferior to him. And, well, on the matters of Mugaro and caring for one’s brethren, the king tried to date a half dragon girl and is giving his life for his people. Azazel initially thought that Mugaro was one of the demon slaves, that's why he picked him. Azazel is a terrific character, but humane he is not, he wouldn't accept such a definition himself, probably. (Actually I don't understand where they're taking him at this point, if he is supposed to be redeemed, and in whose eyes.) Finally, I am not sure about the whole discussion about justification. Charioce has done a lot of bad things, but as to why he has done them – it’s clear and easy to understand: before him demons killed innocent kids in human cities, now they don’t. It’s undeniably an improvement for humans. We don’t know what’s his final big goal is, but he drones about wanting to make human lives better, he did and he does. There’s a reason behind his actions. And that makes him at the very least not evil for the sake of evil, so it’s possible to empathize with him too. I don’t see the show portraying him as good, because he is in the position of the main antagonist, continuously likened to Bahamut, everyone good gangs on him. But do we truly need to always agree with a character to care about them? I don’t get this, because why? They can have their own reasoning and circumstances, they can have flaws (btw, Azazel, ahem). And Charioce is way too interesting – he is a history changer and an uncommon personality, so it’s possible to forgive some of the weaker moments in writing. Eh, I’ve typed this, but we should probably agree to disagree to save time. |
deadoptimistSep 11, 2017 4:11 AM
Mouloxas said: I think he would work exceptionally well in the story if he was simply someone evil the protagonists have to defeat, a king with a will of steel, someone who rules with an iron fist. For me, that's the best reason to write a character like him. But the fact that they put him in a completely forced romance, try to give him a human side, and in general try to force down our throats that he's a good guy, THAT is what completely destroys his character for me, i cannot possibly take him seriously after all that. But where does the show says that he is good? At no point it does. Everyone hates him, he has no firends. Even Nina doesn't say to anyone that she loves him and feels conflicted. Evil kings are a staple, that would be old. Layered characters are more interesting, imo. And Charioce is initially a good person, maybe traumatized, but good enough to decide to sacrifice his humanity and become bad for the sake of the wellbeing of other humans. Many bad things in real life started with altruism like this. People are often very different between work and personal time, why can't he? The way I understand it - Nina is seeing the last sparks of what he could've been but kills in himself, and it is romantic, in my opinion. Or more like it was supposed to be, before the quality of writing plummeted. Tho I would love if he had been more active and fought more. |
| V iSatoru said: >mugaro dies >rita is a necromancer >nothing happens ???????? literally everyone overlooked that lool but she cant do that without the book that she had, no? |
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iSatoru said: If she bites him he'll turn into a zombie, no? That's how she transformed, it was described. Plus, she's manipulated dead things even without the book in S1 and S2 so... you have a point. but when she manipulated dead, they still dead.. and.. maybe because El is angel, there is a problem to turn him into a zombie? |
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| It's time for war and i hope that bastard gonna die in it! |
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iSatoru said: Maybe, maybe! They never really explained it at all :/ there is no manga? or some other source for the story? i know that it's base on a card game, but it's never had a manga? :0 |
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| So they really killed off Mugaro! oh damn! hype is near and Chaos is uprising since Jeandarc & Azazel is planning to act because of what happened to Mugaro! Lady Gabriel & Lucifer-sama involved would be a lot of mess! 5/5. |
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Mouloxas said: Inbar-xz said: there is no manga? or some other source for the story? i know that it's based on a card game, but it's never had a manga? :0 It's not really source material, but we have 2 short stories, 10 minute ONAs that show what Favaro and Kaisar did directly after the ending of season 1 and Kaisar's and Jeanne's life with the Orlean knights. Yes I saw them :) I also find that there is a manga, but it's looks like it's not related to the anime :\ I wish I could play that card game! T-T |
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| "El" died!!! :/ All the fronts, Angels, Demons, Humans are ready to the last battle....bet to the winner!!! kekeke |
| Completely unnecessary to kill off El. Seemed like the author realized he used prior episodes that held no purpose and needed to catch up for the story to actually be complete. Season 2 has been a disappointment. |
| So is Alessand, who will bring the world to ruin? As the old saying goes: change the characters, but the story is always the same, oh well! Anyway, I hope Alessand crises during the war, is a useless and cowardly character. I appreciated that the narration, did not exaggerate with the drama, even though the atmosphere was tense and gloomy. OK end-card. |
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Zelev said: I fucking called it that Jeanne would play a bigger role into this. Ya'll said she was useless. How about now? The sad part is I didn't realize it sooner considering it's in the title, "Virgin Soul." I assumed Virgin Soul referred to Nina, the naive immature teen |
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GrimorumInvoke said: Zelev said: I fucking called it that Jeanne would play a bigger role into this. Ya'll said she was useless. How about now? The sad part is I didn't realize it sooner considering it's in the title, "Virgin Soul." I assumed Virgin Soul referred to Nina, the naive immature teen Hmm, I guess it could, but I always assumed it referred to Jeanne considering it holds more significance with her character's background; for example, she was still considered a virgin when she gave birth if you remember that episode. |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: Hmm, I guess it could, but I always assumed it referred to Jeanne considering it holds more significance with her character's background; for example, she was still considered a virgin when she gave birth if you remember that episode. I think a focus on Jeanne would have made this a better anime, but it would shift the targeted audience. It would have also made the title more appropriate. |
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| Wow, this episode had some really great imagery, in the beginning when Mugaro died and towards the end when Nina realized. I fear the trail of war can't be stopped even though Charioce ultimately wasn't the one who started it. The only thing that still irks me a bit is naivety and stupidity of Azazel and Kaisar.. if anything, those two are dragging the pathos way too far to my taste, being overdramatic to the point it's almost detrimental to the story. But other than that - really great episode. |
| I hope this is all leading up to a satisfying conclusion. |
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Hannah_Ana said: Alessand has realized that what he did was all for nothing. I hope he hangs himself! o man if he sees what he really started cause what happens next is on hes head lol i just hope Az just cripples him badly so he can't be even a night then hes forced to live it that shame & guilt for life death is 2easy for him LunarPisces1 said: Completely unnecessary to kill off El. Seemed like the author realized he used prior episodes that held no purpose and needed to catch up for the story to actually be complete. Season 2 has been a disappointment. yes there was its a plot device but if u mean them in anime yes for them it was unnecessary cause he posed no real threat |
Sugram22Nov 10, 2017 10:15 AM
| One unplanned move is going to cause the greatest war of all time. LOL |
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A father's tears is always hard to watch T-T  |
| Rip El killed for the wrong purpose, dammit Alessand expect Azazel and Jeanne wrath For a series called Rage of Bahamut, there isn't a lot of Bahamut... |
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| The way Mugaro died is so underwhelming but I guess they needed a plot device to get things going because so far they've been running around in circles. Although, I gotta admit the way they handled Mugaro's death was great. I loved the different reactions to it from Azazel crying to Nina's late reaction to it. Looks like Alessand chickened out after knowing what being an Onyx Soldier entails. With that said, I wonder what the Onyx Soldiers are really after for them to risk their lives like that and serve loyally to Charioce. Jeanne starts a rebellion. Lucifer finally stops being a pussy. The writers finally remembered him. Nina finally gets the courage to "stop" Charioce which is a pretty vague term to put. How does she intent to stop him? Kill him or like what? I'm sure she still has some lingering attachments to him but hey at least she finally snapped a little. |
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| My Girl NIna Finally Matures, though she could of gotten rid of the king way before having Meguru die. well as of now, though I was thinking maybe Rita would make him a zombie, but then he would have lost his own will I suppose. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| NOOOOOO WHY DID EL HAVE TO DIE?? THIS WAS SO SAD IM STILL CRYING. PLS KILL ALESSAND RIGHT NOW AND THEN KILL CHARIOCE |
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| This was one heavy episode after the emotional death of El. It's interesting to see how the cast of characters reacted to his unfortunate passing. Jeanne is determined to strike Charaioce down, and knowing she'd make a move, Azazel has begun preparations with Lucifer. Heck, even Nina has decided to stop Charioce at this point. The last 3 eps should be filled to the brim with late-game drama. Good or bad, that's still to be found out. Off to Eibos they go!!! |
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| That was one of the dumbest betrayals I've seen in anime lol. Really? Are the Obsidian Knights that appealing? This whole season has been frustrating to the max. |
| I did not think that Kaisar could get even worse, but here we are. He doubles down on his buddies innocence only to get hit by Favaro with the harsh truth immediately afterwards. What an idiot. |
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