Zankyou no Terror Episode 6 Discussion

Mich666 said:

You know, I was thinking exactly the same. But maybe they were right that in such case Five would immediately detonated the bomb. Yes, Five could make the explosion smaller but there would be casualties either way. It would be pretty good dilemma for other agents on her side to blow or not to blow up those innocent people. And I doubt Japanese government would be happy that american agents are destroying such vital targets. But let's admit we are viewing this differently as we know everything, from their point of view maybe Nine and Twelve couldn't be so sure that Five wasn't acting on her own.

Antearion said:
Five is so fucking amazing.

Vexper said:
I don't think I've ever complained about an episode passing by quick, but boy that did. There didn't even seem to be much content either. A lot of it probably could have been broken down a tad or simply avoided.

I've just realised what five reminds me of;

skudoops said:

Firstly, if they say the bomb is at the airport why wouldn’t people believe them? If they said it was there and then it went off then why would the public ever doubt them again? Even if it didn’t go off (because the FBI took it off) or it was never there in the first place… Well guess what? Mission accomplished, because they wouldn’t need to walk into the trap and no one would die. Not only that but if the police release a statement saying they are lying and then the bomb goes off, who looks like the idiot there?

As for your second point, they are surrounded in an airport of all places, how are they going to get out of there? What’s the point of this chess game? There was absolutely nothing stopping a counter terrorist team from stopping them when they entered the waiting area, unless of course despite having zero prep time, 9 and 12 had enough gadgets in the bag to make an escape that even batman would be astonished by. Not to mention they know 9 and 12 won’t harm civilians so why even play this chess game? What is the end goal? I am not questioning the part about luring them in, I’m questioning why she is insistent on playing the game after they are already in the trap.

Also discussing the show isn't spam.

Keten said:
Yaaa, wasn't feeling this episode at all. The conversations were pretty dull and there wasn't even any good music in the background to build any sort of atmosphere like there usually was.

Not their fault the bomb went off? I mean... Sure, it was her fault too but, you guys put it there, you set the timer and then left it alone. It's your fault too guys.

I take back what I said about Five last episode. I thought she'd be interesting but she really isn't. She even laughs in a hammy cliche villain way. Doesn't fit the tone of the show at all. Disappointed.

Sooooo.... Does the FBI just... Not care that innocents die? Are they REALLY going the route of "THE EVIL GOVERNMENT MUST BE STOPPED BY THE HEROIC REBEL TERRORISTS"? Disappointed.

Suddenly the one cop guy likes Shibazaki.... Okay..? Would have liked a scene where that was established.

Now a chess game in an airport.... No one in the airport looked at the screen and went, "What is going on? What's that? D4??". It's very silly, it's like i'm watching NGNL or something. Doesn't fit the tone of the show. Disappointed.

MaNWK said:
Has anyone found the OST from when Nine, Twelvw and Lisa are going to the airport? Couldn't Find it on soundcloud..

Alphaspade said:


Yeah I've been looking for it for like 30 min now. It's not on the OST.

laldonkaments said:
I don't understand all the hate for the Engrish part - for a Japanese(?) person I think such a level of English is quite good.

BRK25 said:

They had a way to disconnect them but Five intercepted and brought a giant electromagnetic interference. No one told them to stack so much gunpowder but they were ready to disarm it in the case they never solved it. And Nine wasn't agreeing with Twelve on them saying it wasn't their fault, he took blame.

I'm waiting, Five has something ins tore and expecting flashbacks or character development in a later episode. And I can't tell what laugh you are speaking of, cause if it is a flashback, might be a trick or explaining the lunacy of Five.

Hm, let's ask America when they bombed a nation with a nuke or freely heading to Vietnam and open fire. Iraq got issues. This is classic explanations of meddling in international affairs. And the Superintendent General gives free support to the FBI. The Police Department fucked up to the highest degree.

Hetalia portrayed America as goofy and entering everyone's business for no reason. Fair representation. And by causing a little incident or tragedy, by sacrificing a few people to save an entire nation, don't you think it's rational or not? Like Bill Clinton possibly killing Osama in the 190's but didn't cause it'd create a scene. Look how it turned out.

It was established in Episode Five when he saw Shibazaki solve the puzzle and explaining what they had to do. And the guts the detective had to stand up for what he believed in and against the Director of the First division. And when the bomb went off, he was furious and gripped the Kurahashi in anger, showing his frustration. Combined with deducing the act of a higher up meddling in, Hamura understands what's going on.

And noticing the detective having gotten the best of the Terrorists or their intentions, the other police force follows him, a great helper and risking their jobs on the line for the greater good.

A chess game? Don't bring up the atrocity of NGNL. A straight rip from Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. That chess game was shit and uninspiring and the Dues Ex Machina displayed over and over again.

The average citizen thought it would be cool or a small glitch. What, not all airports need to be stuck in this state and others pass it off as a glitch.

It's the subtle effort in this show you need to understand. They aren't being blunt and mouth feeding the information, you need to create the connections. Got it? From the words of Nine and Twelve, to the sadness off of Lisa to the anger of Shibazaki and being told how he never learns from his past mistakes, it's allt here, the character development's is on a technical level.

sullynathan said:
and Lisa is so clumsy and annoying.

Takuan_Soho said:


Just wait for it.

Keten said:


Fair enough that he still feels blame for it. I'll let it pass. It wasn't a real issue with the show anyway, it was just a nitpick.

The airport thing was a nitpick too, don't read much into that. I do think the chess game is silly though because it just feels so out of place and forced like they REALLY wanted to do a typical, "Playing chess makes us show off our intelligence" bit and it's just really cliche.

You seem to have a negative outlook on humanity. Fair enough. Usually there is a reason for America to be all nuts with their bombs and stuff though. Money, Oil, stopping a world wide war. Those were the reasons for the examples you listed. As for Vietnam, they admitted it was a pointless war later on and pulled out. Not defending them, just saying they had reasons for it.

Stopping 2 teenagers who somehow outsmart the police force, proving they have no intention of killing anyone. That is no reason to kill dozens if not hundreds of innocent civilians. Jesus dude, don't even try to defend that.

While I agree and understand WHY the cop likes Shibazaki now. I would have liked a scene where they just talked to each other and came to an understanding. It would have been an actual character building scene. Shame we will never get it now.

I wasn't talking about the flashback laugh. I was talking about the laugh she did in the office surrounded by all the suits. It was cartoony and out of place. I almost laughed at how silly it was because it caught me so off guard.

As for character development, we don't even know everything about the characters yet and it's already half over. We don't even know why Nine and Twelve were blowing shit up in the first place yet. That should have been established episode 2! Regardless, it's true they could surprise me later with some development of some sort but they need to finish their personality introduction first.

There is no character development, stop pretending there is. Character development can only happen after personalities have been already established. To a degree they have but no development has occurred. Development is when a character changes in personality(In a believable way). They are different people at the end of a series than they were at the beginning. There is no development yet. Might be some in the future, not yet though.

Chabe said:
An explosion a couple of meters away simply burned his back. Whelp.

Chabe said:


Waiting for the torture to end is always fun.

Chabe said:
Why wouldn't people believe them if they said it wasn't their bomb?
The whole point in terrorism is to achieve something through intimidation, a terrorist wouldn't plant a bomb and then say it isn't theirs.
Also, why is Five allowed to play with them? They could just capture them right then and there.

BRK25 said:


Heard gunpowder is like an ignition or a spark, mostly fire and flames but nothing combined like a ringing explosion of a grenade or a martyr bomb or a rpg. Now is it lethal and high does? Yes. I'm guessing he went to the farthest of the train cart to avoid the radius of the explosion at the center and deal with the pain afterwards. First to second degree burns. Now if it was TNT....unacceptable explanation.

He still has a few scars and remnants on his back so good development on that part

Chabe said:


I think it was a plastic explosive, can't remember. Anyway, the explosive was surrounded by metal. Shrapnel should've flew everywhere. Is it too much to ask for even one little sliver of something to hit him? He should've at least been beaten up a little, maybe a concussion. Well, it's not like they put much thought into the animation anyway, there was an illegal chess move this ep.

BRK25 said:

Eh, I believe all humans progress in their lives every day. But I learned it is foolish to think that way.

The chess game is whatever but for all we know, life can be a game to Five and she reminds me of Azula from Avatar, bat shit crazy but is very damaged within, battling demons we don't see till later.

I shouldn't but I'll try.

You look at the show in the perspective of the viewer but not the police Department. 72 People were injured in the explosion and shows heavy amounts of damage underneath. We as the viewer knows they aren't killing anyone on purpose and not their goal. The police doesn't know that and if Nine and Twelve hadn't intervened, there'd be a death toll and a more public fear. Notice in episode five how everyone watched in awe and interest and not in fear. Also done the same in episode 4, everyone watched.

And if the FBI does it and the public thinks it is the terrorists, don't you think that'd be shady on America? Everyone would be fooled into thinking it was Sphinx and not the proud and brave land of America who will come in and save them blindly form terror. You never know, we don't know since this is an original idea and not an adaption. We gotta wait and see.

She's nearly the same age as Nine and Twelve and I feel she's far more broken or crazy then we know right now. She went to all that effort to make a game at an airport, I believe she wants to have fun. It is out of place, she's eighteen or nineteen while everyone is old or in their late thirties, early forties, maybe even their fifties, think about her age context as oppose to everyone else.

There is character development, it's an onion, shedding layers after layers. It's very very small. We get to see different sides and expressions from the terrorists but it is small. I can talk about other shows where they go through hard Triumphs and become different or strange but they are already in their final development and the character development is showing us how they got there. That's the key. Like Spike from Cowboy Bebop or Mugen from Samurai Champloo, Jet from Bebop, Jin from Champloo. They don't entirely change at the end but you see why they act the way they do.

Oh, and with eleven episodes, I don't think they'd waste a scene of a cop and another getting along. It's about respect and what he exhibited in episode five showed respect when things were out of hand.

We learn piece by piece of the things going on in the show, albeit, slowly. It's coming. Just hold on. Nine was cold and against any help. He wasn't rying to kill anyone and used Lisa to make her help them out and not blow their cover. Now here in episode six, Lisa's effort of trying to help out Nine and show immense resolve in her eyes made Nine change his mind when we known he was a complete prick to her up to this point. He sees some use for her

We can talk about how Twelve decided to reveal a little knowledge to the viewer and also to Lisa by saying he has Synthesia. I know about it and was surprised it was involve. He wasn't simply telling her some stupid story, explaining about the color of her voice. Yellow naturally means a coward and such but I'm guessing there's more to her, like finding a gold mine within through that shyness and anxiety. And possible key to the progression of the show

Also, Nine is the one with the nightmares, twisting and turning by showing off the pysche. He knows Five is crazy and must be laughing at them.

Shibazaki having problems in the past accepting orders from above when they are in the wrong and he's in the right. Shows in episode six, and episode five during the order to not do anything against the higher ups will.

Lisa started out weak and hating the world. She grew to be happy in a new world but sadden by the fact she can't make herself useful. Unlike the other female protags I see, she puts effort and doesn't take no for an answer. And her effort is shown in this episode to be of some use.

The development is backwards for sphinx, Five and Shibazak through flash backs or past knowledgei. Forwards for Lisa, she's happier and tries her best around them when at the start, she was pitiful.

One last note, this is a mystery/thriller. Where's the fun when you explain why the person is killing in the first episode? You start with the Modus operandi, the possible option of who he's gonna target next and go from there. But this isn't a murder show, it's a psychological thriller and the fun part comes near the end where it all clicks and makes sense. You must be used to the manner of forward progression of characters.

Considering once again, for the umpteenth time, a Watanabe production does this always. Start with the fun, explain later. Cowboy Bebop, Champloo. Kids on the slope( The characters progressed forward and backwards in flashbacks and relationships by the way.)

This is a different way to present it. If you don't like to think this isn't development, then fine, it's only an opinion and not a fact.

Keten said:


Layers of characterization is not character development. It's just getting to know their personalities more. Development is change. It's important to show off the different sides of their personalities yes but it most definitely is not development. Cowboy Bebop's characters changed throughout the course of the series, they weren't just the same people in different situations. I could go into more detail but it's off topic.

Nine, Twelve and Lisa are 2-dimensional. They have 1 specific character trait (Nine is stoic and calculative, Twelve is hyper, Lisa is average and emo) but they are conflicted about said traits meaning Nine sometimes gives people a chance even if it doesn't go into his calculations appropriately, Twelve sometimes has to show his serious side to induce intimidation, Lisa sometimes goes out of her way to try not being average and try to be happy. Lisa is the closest thing to Development the show has so far, but she still shows signs that she hates the world, shes just giving the happier side a chance. Oddly enough she's the most disliked character, don't know why really. I mean sure she sort of fails at everything but she is at least building some what.

Five is 1-dimensional so far but I forgive it because she's only had 2 episodes as of yet. She is a crazy bitch who likes fun things but she isn't even conflicted about what shes doing. 1 trait, 1-note character as of yet.

Their personalities didn't change at all, they are the same people just giving the opposite of their trait a chance.

What are you talking about "Explaining why people are killing?" I want to know why they are blowing things up. It's fine if there is some sort of threat underneath. It can be kept a mystery because all you need to know is, "people are dying". That is enough motivation for me to hope the opposite end wins. These guys aren't killing anyone though, they are just causing mass vandalism and hurting people. I can't cheer for them when I don't know why they are doing it and the show seems to want me to cheer for them, but they need a damn good reason for what they are doing. That is why I want clarity. I didn't say I want clarity for Five's actions because I get it, she's nuts, she's killing people, stop her. These guys are almost as bad as she is though because they go around blowing stuff up without giving us a justifiable reason why. Even if it comes later, that doesn't stop the fact that for the majority of the series we have no idea why they were doing it.

Flashbacks are not development. That is Character "Fleshing out". It's getting to know a characters personality through what they experienced in the past. It doesn't tell us what they become in the future, as such is not development. It's just as important as development though and I am glad they are at least giving insight into some of their pasts and I am sure we will get more later on. Relationship building is also not necessarily development, it's just a person with a personality growing a bond with someone else, it has nothing to do with their personality changing. Though it can lead to development given certain circumstances. A good example would be Lisa finding happiness through Twelve. That's a good start and it can spark her actually changing a lot as a character. Of course no one likes her though because she's an emo girl who is useless apparently.

I was never knocking people for enjoying it either. The series is immensely well directed and the music is some of the best anime has to offer (I am not just saying that either, Yoko Kanno is bloody amazing and the best musical artist in the industry). The animation is so high quality it's amazing too. It's definitely a good watch for the eyes and ears. I just don't think the characters are anything new or amazing and the story is sorta cliche. Also the only episode that actually built tension so far was last episode. I am a HUGE thriller fan, so it just sort of annoys me when a thriller has so little thrills.

BRK25 said:

Maybe I give Watanabe too much credit but everything he dipped his hands in when it comes to directing had been genius or top notch quality and right now this serves to be another of wow, we really gonna have to wait.

Reminds me of Bebop of episodic plots and no real direction going till the last three episodes where shit went down.

Samurai Champloo of loosely finding a man with the scent of the sunflowers. Once again, last three episodes were key and had a bunch of development or characterization to explain why the following events are purposeful.

Using speculation, they are blowing up to get people to listen to them and have them at their very word. If not, trying to persuade Japan or Tokyo to how they like to have them at would be hard and the police would capture them. When the public tweets and messages about the newest video and hearing the proclamation in the videos, everyone's listening and soon they'll use the plutonium. Would suck if none was use or never placed. I prefer dialogue to get a description and depth of a character and break from lunatic, anti social teen and detective who solves riddles.

Each has more to give and I'm expecting once again, the last three episodes to be key.

And if this is anything like Stein;s Gate, I'm sure the thriller is gonna come up very soon and fast like Stein;s Gate. I have high patience only cause of who directs it. Anyone else, and I'd be as mad as you are right now of lacked evidence or description.

Ironically, in a Watanabe production, the one with the most character development was a female. Faye and Ed, Fuu got development and I think Mayuri or a female with an M in Sakamichi no Apollo got development combined with the main character. Lisa gonna be the very key to this show.

The show cleverly directed, no wasted time and giving all the points needed. I'm happy and never wasting on pointless shit like Fairy Tail might do b running the time to extend the time lot of the episodes.

NGNL had fine exposition but the context and the intelligence of the characters were pathetic. Geniuses? Dues Ex Machina plots? How much cooler can they get? SAO reboot in a different world. People with that much knowledge never graduating classes by having an anti social disorder and yet speaking and owning everyone in sight? Horrible execution.

Just saying my thoughts and the comparison of directing and when dropping info

hivekiller said:
The flashback scene, was weird and creepy...as hell this time....This episode is more like a set-up for the next episode. What will they planned to do with Lisa?

Keten said:


I agree that Watanabe is a remarkable director. Regardless I won't just praise any show he makes, I go into everything with an open mind with no hype. This show is indeed another wow in terms of direction though.

Now, I agree with your speculation. I think you are pretty much on point. What I wonder though is... if it's that obvious, why haven't they just Idunno.. explained it yet? I don't want a full exposition or anything but something like that could be done in under a minute of explanation, it isn't that difficult.

NGNL thoughts below (because off topic)


Regardless, yes, Watanabe is really good at writing females. Faye had remarkable development, fleshing out AND personality. Course most characters in Bebop developed and were fully fleshed out soooo... Faye wasn't the only one. I don't really think this show has shown that it's nearly as good as Bebop yet though.

I am not judging the series as a whole or anything, just from what I've seen thus far. It could very well surprise me somehow later on and that would be great. Regardless of my criticisms too, the animation and music are what keep me watching. I think it's average so far but with good aesthetics. Hence my 6/10 rating currently. If people find enjoyment in it that I don't though, feel free.

Ando- said:
I think they could have done without the engrish, but that's nothing too big. I loved the soundtrack they used when the chess game started. And I'm curious as to what Lisa's role is.