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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- So it looks like a race to time in order to arrest Itsuki but they still had no evidence to prove the case. However, I do think Seizaki's clever thinking is impressive in the way that he managed to formulate a plan to find such evidence. |
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| Really good episode, the debate about the suicide law was interesting, it's so well written. |
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| It's unlikely to recommend a boy as a candidate without investigating the background of his family, especially his father who wishes to kill himself. |
kuroneko99Nov 11, 2019 6:16 AM
| That debate was very interesting, arguments are well constructed and raises very good questions about how humans handle death So the masked kid was his son, Itsuki really had everything covered |
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| Okay I did not see that plot twist at the end coming I also genuinely don't know who I'd side with in this debate if it happened IRL. I mean I don't think society should encourage suicide of course but I don't think banning it makes sense either. Just trying to provide support to the people that need it so that they find the will to carry on living instead of killing themselves is probably the most logical compromise |
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| itsuki played them all. He has a way with words too, hes fucking dangerous, I started even believing him XD |
| Seizaki's wife has death flags written all over her, Ai plz dont do dis But hot damn that debate was actually pretty interesting. I really like how this show is playing on generality and how not everything is as black and white as it's made out to be. Part of me thinks Itsuki is secretly Ai with the way he turned everyone's statements against them (plus the fact Ai can change her identity) |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| Nomaru Yarou! Trying to use a kid for his manipulative purposes. I'm glad Itsuki turned the tables on him, it certainly was a big shocker. Coming onto the suicide law, I think it's not bad in my perception. A person's life belongs to them, they can do whatever they please with it, as long as that person is in mental capacity to do so and the family consents to it. I believe a person has to go through medical check ins, like counselling and various mental tests. In all that journey, I believe the family or anyone close to the candidate must be present throughout the whole process for emotional purposes. If anyone close to the candidates rejects the process, then I believe it should be halted or at least reviewed. Itsuki is not wrong, but his methods of manipulation to assistance is definitely wrong. |
lihle808Nov 11, 2019 8:03 AM
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
Short_Circut said: Part of me thinks Itsuki is secretly Ai with the way he turned everyone's statements against them (plus the fact Ai can change her identity) I’m getting these vibes, albeit mild, from this episode too. Something about his nature too, I can’t quite get a grip on it though. I’ve a feeling Seizaki would be able to tell if it were actually her though so I’m not really betting on that outcome just yet. God, that plot-twist though! I wonder what happened with the background checks, Itsuki had it in the bag the whole time it seems. Plus those were some really good counterattacks, almost as if he saw these coming as Seizaki suspected. I honestly can’t wait to see where this is going! Half-way through and it’s been a wonderful ride thus far, hoping to see it keep up the momentum all the way through! |
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni  |
_MushiRock11_ said: Short_Circut said: Part of me thinks Itsuki is secretly Ai with the way he turned everyone's statements against them (plus the fact Ai can change her identity) I’m getting these vibes, albeit mild, from this episode too. Something about his nature too, I can’t quite get a grip on it though. I’ve a feeling Seizaki would be able to tell if it were actually her though so I’m not really betting on that outcome just yet. I think it's because of that whole slight sadistic smile he had going on through the whole debate almost like he was completely unphased by anything they said, kinda like Ai when Seizaki was interrogating her |
'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
Short_Circut said: I think it's because of that whole slight sadistic smile he had going on through the whole debate almost like he was completely unphased by anything they said, kinda like Ai when Seizaki was interrogating her Oh yes, that! Exactly that, if it’s not the same person then they’re definitely siblings lol. |
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni |
| Not doing a background check on the boy (and on Itsuki) was incredibly dumb. This show is getting more asspully each episode. |
| Given the Japanese mentality it's pretty ballsy for Babylon to tackle issues like drug use and suicide head on. Props for taking risks. Also what a fucking plot twist at the end, this show has no right to be so good lol. The debate was also really interesting, the clash of ideologies, even though it was just talking, I had my eyes glued to the screen through the entire thing. |
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| The debate was really really poorly written. They made everyone say dumb things to make Itsuki look smart. Like assuming that suicidal people are otherwise completely normal contributors to the economy and not more likely to be bottom of the barrel people that are a drain on society? Or that legalizing suicide will plunge society into anarchy somehow? And was Itsuki seriously implying that some people commit suicide because they think it's deviant like illegal marijuana use? He even says "you can't be sure suicides will increase" and no one points out that suicides have already increased dramatically. None of their arguments made sense. |
| Ok, I didn't see the twist at the end coming, even tho it wouldn't have take much thinking to get to that conclusion. Regarding the debate, I was a bit disappointed because I hoped for something more out of the box. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Father vs Son to decide the fate of the state? How diabolic can it get from here? And damn the BGM really creates this eerie vibes everytime the characters get pumped up. |
When someone asks me why I like anime, I'd say Just Because. |
| I love the maturity of the writing and the moral ambiguity. Both sides have legitimate points, just like the euthanasia argument. Seizaki reminds me a lot of Batman, he will have to break his code to solve this case. His wife and kid will definitely die. I ship he and Ai tbh. Gonna order the novel right now. |
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| Dropped. After electing a new mayor that disappears overnight and continues somehow to rule the city from an unknown location through giant screens, he changes the electoral law allowing children to vote and be elected, which no one opposes or says this is stupid or why they shouldn´t be congressmen, then his opponents present his child to run for parliament on their behalf against him without even checking who he might be. All that while leading in parallel an investigation with a nation-wide effort wasting 3 episodes worth of screen time to be concluded by a ´fuck it let´s give up and kidnap him instead´. Unfortunately these writing decisions destroy the credibility of the legal and political themes being treated. Pruhtus said: The debate was really really poorly written. They made everyone say dumb things to make Itsuki look smart. Like assuming that suicidal people are otherwise completely normal contributors to the economy and not more likely to be bottom of the barrel people that are a drain on society? and no one points out that suicides have already increased dramatically. None of their arguments made sense. Exactly. They made the anti-law points vulnerable to allow the classic trope of protagonists having the surprised faces and the antagonist smug face. Also debating these things seriously in 5-7 minutes is impossible. |
| I've been iffy on this show from the start but this episode actually got me interested and rooting for the "bad guy". And then the end happened and now my interest is lost once again. There are decent elements to this series but thus far it's not yet proven to be as good as it thinks it is. |
| I. DID. NOT. SEE. THAT. COMING!! His goddamn son??! I found the debate to be quite interesting despite what the other users are saying. While there are some arguments that were flawed from both sides, for example to combat the economic concerns of suicide, Itsuki could've easily said that it would actually bring balance to the distribution of resources as the line between the poor and the rich grows larger everyday. It would allow for financial equality in a way. Nomaru's emotion argument honestly was poor in my opinion, Itsuki was right in saying that making suicide a choice would actually allow for people to finally start talking about it and lower the stigma around suicide through this choice. It was still well-written nonetheless and I do appreciate a show like Babylon for tackling such a morally challenging topic. I find myself in constant confusion on where I even personally stand. This show has a future and I'm loving it so far. |
~ These boys must be protected at all costs ~  |
| Sooo weird thing to ask, but what was in their wine glasses during the debate? It was brown in color and had a straw? I was wondering if it was tea but...that's weird to drink during a debate. IDK, it just made me think wtf. Also good episode. Poor kid QQ |
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| > Looks like they're running out of time for arresting Itsuki. > Seizaki's plan on kidnapping Itsuki was no-holds-barred right there. But, I hope there's still legal ways to arrest him. > Comparing suicide to illegal drugs? Really, Itsuki? That's really flawed right there. > Itsuki's son was the boy with the mask? What? Looking forward to the next episode. |
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| Nice little double-twist at the end. Coming from the U.S. it's strange seeing politicians debate. This has been an interesting topic so far. Interesting to see where it goes as so far it's not clear to me if legalizing suicide should be a moral right for society. I'm leaning towards yes, due to the societal stigma, that the survivor's unfairly bear. |
| that debate was awesome. I didn't think a new studio like Revoroot would bring something this wonderful. |
“You can always die. It's living that takes real courage." - Himura Kenshin” . |
Pruhtus said: Not doing a background check on the boy (and on Itsuki) was incredibly dumb. This show is getting more asspully each episode. His son could have her mother's last name, not Itsuki's. Same goes for his wife, she could have kept her maid's name or she could have changed her last name in order to stay unrelated to an important public figure. The last thing you want is to make public the name of your loved ones if you're running for an important spot in politics, opening the door to scumbags like kidnapers & killers Pruhtus said: The debate was really really poorly written. They made everyone say dumb things to make Itsuki look smart. Like assuming that suicidal people are otherwise completely normal contributors to the economy and not more likely to be bottom of the barrel people that are a drain on society? The Japan work mentallity is that everyone no matter how small their job is it contributes to the GDP with countless and inhumane number of hours per week and making things like vacations something to be ashamed of or shown as some sort of weaknesses in front of their peers. This Ramen guy for instance starts his day at 6:30 am and finishes almost til midnight. That's 6 days a week and sometimes even 7 days a week. A Master Chef in Japan also spends almost his whole day in several locations. This is nothing alike the laidback schedule of an 8 to 5 common office worker in the west, and also consider that there's nos shaming in Japan for taking minial jobs. Sure, out of a sample of lets say 2000 people in Japan, some of them might be lowlifes with no jobs not contributing to the GDP, but a bigger percentage actually do contribute to Japan's economy and losing a valuable amount of workers even on minial jobs is a big loss. Japan's unemployment rate is only 2.4 as of 2019, compare it to the US with a 3.6 and also compare it to Spain with a a whoping 14.2% it gives you the idea that Japan workforce is quite important for it's country and those jobs can't be easily replaced with more available workers in the incident of mass suicide. |
KimurahNov 11, 2019 8:25 PM
| Amusing little twist. I should've seen that coming a mile away. |
jrod19 said: That would be so like Monster when both siblings are evil._MushiRock11_ said: Oh yes, that! Exactly that, if it’s not the same person then they’re definitely siblings lol. I was actually thinking the same thing. Since Ai was adopted, possibly estranged siblings that have been reunited and conquer the world together through manipulation. |
| Very interesting debate. Itsuki does actually make some good points. In a way he is promoting people being more open to talk about mental health by being able to freely talk about feeling suicidal. Of course the way he frames it is a little more suspect. Furthermore we know that he'd really use this law to control ppl into killing themselves via Ai. Interesting twist at the end as well. Looking forward to seeing how Seizaki makes his move. |
ProofByColorNov 11, 2019 9:21 PM
| A couple of things: - Now, whoever said that they weren't sure if the person who committed suicide last episode was a detective/important character or not; we know now. - Does this mean voters and politicians could use his 'bias' of wanting to commit suicide against him in his idea of creating this law? - Father vs. son, who do we think is going to win? |
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| holy moly this dude is like three steps ahead of everyone trying to get him |
Ashhk said: it's so well written. I'd say the opposite of it being "so well written," because the opposing candidates had really shitty points that were easily ran over by Itsuki's counterpoint steamroller. Though, it was an interesting debate and the fact that the anonymous boy was Itsuki's son is definitely a good plot twist. The debate definitely could've gone way better and could have been far more interesting. Not awful though. |
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Ilovebeanbag said: why are there building tension between seizaki and assistant. He is married, some foreshadowing if cheating? I don't think seizaki will ever willingly cheat I think this is a good, relevant point and is quite possible, but I do not think it would be with the assistant, though that is also possible. Ai could definitely control and manipulate him into cheating, but the assistant doesn't seem at all interested in Seizaki. Now, that could just be her way of keeping her crushing on Seizaki to herself, but we'll see I suppose. Good point. |
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Kimurah said: The Japan work mentallity is that everyone no matter how small their job is it contributes to the GDP with countless and inhumane number of hours per week and making things like vacations something to be ashamed of or shown as some sort of weaknesses in front of their peers. This Ramen guy for instance starts his day at 6:30 am and finishes almost til midnight. That's 6 days a week and sometimes even 7 days a week. A Master Chef in Japan also spends almost his whole day in several locations. This is nothing alike the laidback schedule of an 8 to 5 common office worker in the west, and also consider that there's nos shaming in Japan for taking minial jobs. Sure, out of a sample of lets say 2000 people in Japan, some of them might be lowlifes with no jobs not contributing to the GDP, but a bigger percentage actually do contribute to Japan's economy and losing a valuable amount of workers even on minial jobs is a big loss. Japan's unemployment rate is only 2.4 as of 2019, compare it to the US with a 3.6 and also compare it to Spain with a a whoping 14.2% it gives you the idea that Japan workforce is quite important for it's country and those jobs can't be easily replaced with more available workers in the incident of mass suicide. What are people in a society beasts of burden? No one asked to be born, if someone doesn't like this shitty world and decided to leave it early no one can stop him/her. I am still confuse on what Itsuki stupid law will help accomplish. |
THICCDADDY1234 said: Pruhtus said: The debate was really really poorly written. They made everyone say dumb things to make Itsuki look smart. Like assuming that suicidal people are otherwise completely normal contributors to the economy and not more likely to be bottom of the barrel people that are a drain on society? Or that legalizing suicide will plunge society into anarchy somehow? And was Itsuki seriously implying that some people commit suicide because they think it's deviant like illegal marijuana use? He even says "you can't be sure suicides will increase" and no one points out that suicides have already increased dramatically. None of their arguments made sense. What are you on? Just stop watching the show if you don't like it. I think it's dumb of you to assume that they don't like the show just because the debate had really shitty writing. I completely agree with him. Everyone's talking about how it was "so well written" and the points were "really good" but every other candidate's points were dead-end setups just to make Itsuki prevail in the debate. I love the show, but it was such a shitty debate. |
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Thorckan said: That debate was very interesting, arguments are well constructed and raises very good questions about how humans handle death So the masked kid was his son, Itsuki really had everything covered What part of the arguments were well constructed? Every candidate except Itsuki used zero evidence, only used emotional strategy, and were really lame segways into Itsuki's speech. It was all just written for Itsuki to win. The only one who made a solid argument was Nomaru, but even his point was kind of lame. To give a positive, though, Nomaru's idea of bringing on the kid was a really good idea. Of course everyone's going to vote the little kid, he's tugging on their heartstrings; his father wants to kill himself! Great idea, loved that part. |
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| To add to what people have already said, I'm 100% sure that Itsuki's going to use his son in this election and while his son is in office. It would be incredibly easy to manipulate your own son, so at least one of these has to have happened. - The video was Itsuki's idea, only leading into the rest of what's going to happen. - Having his son run was either his idea or at least permitted by him because he saw the gold of what could happen because of it. - Itsuki, now knowing his son is going to run, can relax because his son is definitely going to win and he could easily manipulate every decision he has to make. Itsuki's spiel on the kid having his own ability to make choices and the fact that he was able to upload the video by his own choice was pretty ironic and telling, because Itsuki most likely has made both of these decisions or will make all of his future decisions for him. |
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