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Sep 12, 2023 6:41 PM
#1
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Apr 2022
2041
I definitely understand the complaint that the last couple of eps have dragged a bit, and I agree actually. But as a manga reader if you drop it now this would literally be the meme with the guy mining for diamonds and stopping right before a giant pile. Episode 12 should be the start of the best arc in the series(and btw it’s not even close) the difference before and after that arc is insane. Before is a 6-7/10 after is a 9/10. Next episode should also be a bit better but if you can wait till atleast like ep 15 to make your decision on whether or not to continue
Sep 12, 2023 6:51 PM
#2
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Sep 2021
240
Yes indeed, I agree with you.... 2nd Cour is where it becomes serious...
Sep 12, 2023 7:16 PM
#3
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Dec 2020
109
This show is quite good. I haven't lost any interest at all and I'm excited to see where the story goes. I bought vol 1 and vol 2 the other day. 👍 would recommend.
Sep 12, 2023 7:34 PM
#4

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May 2021
436
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.
Sep 12, 2023 7:49 PM
#5
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Aug 2022
127
MeanEYE said:
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.

I would argue those shows you consider 9/10 are all actually 10/10s
Sep 12, 2023 8:28 PM
#6

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May 2021
436
Reply to UnfunnyKing
MeanEYE said:
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.

I would argue those shows you consider 9/10 are all actually 10/10s
@UnfunnyKing my rating is probably more pessimistic than most and for me 10/10 show has to be rewatchable among other things which for example 86 is but Fullmetal Alchemist is not. But regardless of that fact, I can't imagine this show jumping to a 9/10 all of the sudden, even if we ignore the fact we are half way through it.
Sep 12, 2023 8:46 PM
#7
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Aug 2022
127
MeanEYE said:
@UnfunnyKing my rating is probably more pessimistic than most and for me 10/10 show has to be rewatchable among other things which for example 86 is but Fullmetal Alchemist is not. But regardless of that fact, I can't imagine this show jumping to a 9/10 all of the sudden, even if we ignore the fact we are half way through it.

Yes I agree with your overarching argument there, I was just curious as to your perspective on anime’s ratings. I’ve watched Attack on Titan multiple times now so I’m curious about your rating on that. Also, just randomly, what’s your rating and rationale on Steins;Gate?
Sep 12, 2023 9:47 PM
#8
Online
Oct 2020
700
It has already been able to keep my interest for 10 episodes, other seasonals I drop at 5 at best, so I don't feel like I will drop it at all, way better than the shows like oshi no ko
Sep 12, 2023 10:05 PM
#9

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Aug 2018
259
MeanEYE said:
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.

“Get carried away” you can’t say that. You haven’t read the manga, you don’t know where the story goes, it’s fine if you want to argue it’s not currently a 9/10, but the plot gets much better later. Also for your argument about being halfway, I just wanna say there’s no way they adapt the whole manga. As of episode 8, they only adapted up to chapter 24. Looking at the manga length it’s 106ch, but as of chapter ~55 the chapters double in length meaning if you’re talking about pure content it’s closer to 150ch. So in this season they won’t adapt the whole story, but it’s kill still definitely get better. But once again you can’t rate something if you haven’t seen it, you can’t say this doesn’t become a 9/10 when you haven’t seen where it goes. Also I just wanna ask what plot holes are you talking about? Genuinely want to know because I haven’t seen any so far
Sep 12, 2023 10:13 PM
Offline
Jun 2021
71
Reply to TheColdMayor
MeanEYE said:
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.

“Get carried away” you can’t say that. You haven’t read the manga, you don’t know where the story goes, it’s fine if you want to argue it’s not currently a 9/10, but the plot gets much better later. Also for your argument about being halfway, I just wanna say there’s no way they adapt the whole manga. As of episode 8, they only adapted up to chapter 24. Looking at the manga length it’s 106ch, but as of chapter ~55 the chapters double in length meaning if you’re talking about pure content it’s closer to 150ch. So in this season they won’t adapt the whole story, but it’s kill still definitely get better. But once again you can’t rate something if you haven’t seen it, you can’t say this doesn’t become a 9/10 when you haven’t seen where it goes. Also I just wanna ask what plot holes are you talking about? Genuinely want to know because I haven’t seen any so far
@TheColdMayor this is his "plot hole complaint"

MeanEYE
Sep 12, 2023, 7:15 PM
#28
Is this the new thing? People are just going to forget and/or ignore the fact there's invasion going on back home and they need to get back as soon as possible. Let's not buy map from elsewhere but this one particular place or force the guy to give it to them or sell. One robbery surely trumps death of a continent. Instead the correct solution is join cooking competition. Seriously? These plot holes are just too big to ignore.

This episode might have been fine on its own, but within the context it's just divorced from the rest of the series. Why did the portal go to that island anyway? Naah, just don't think about it, it's so that they can start adventuring from the farthest point. But there are pressing issues in the heart of the kingdom, naaah don't worry about it. It's on pause until they arrive home. Why didn't the hole teleport them to the moon? Naaah don't think about it. It had to be this Island because that's how they start their adventure and had to kill 3 episodes worth of time. Why a cooking competition for earning money and not honest labor or killing monsters or digging for more gems or just ignoring the whole greedy seller and moving on? Naah just don't think about it, it's because.

Am I the only one who finds writing like this annoying? I can't be. Surely. Thing after thing happens just because... no reason or logic. Just to further the "story", which at this point is more like something toddler would come up after just learning how to talk.
Sep 12, 2023 10:15 PM

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Jun 2012
12272
Reply to MeanEYE
@UnfunnyKing my rating is probably more pessimistic than most and for me 10/10 show has to be rewatchable among other things which for example 86 is but Fullmetal Alchemist is not. But regardless of that fact, I can't imagine this show jumping to a 9/10 all of the sudden, even if we ignore the fact we are half way through it.
@MeanEYE Fullmetal Alchemist is incredibly rewatchable. There are so many different characters with well developed perspectives and motives that a second watch can be even more rewarding than the first. I've seen it three times and have barely even considered the gate among other things.
Sep 12, 2023 10:28 PM

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Aug 2018
259
3inPunisher said:
@TheColdMayor this is his "plot hole complaint"

MeanEYE
Sep 12, 2023, 7:15 PM
#28
Is this the new thing? People are just going to forget and/or ignore the fact there's invasion going on back home and they need to get back as soon as possible. Let's not buy map from elsewhere but this one particular place or force the guy to give it to them or sell. One robbery surely trumps death of a continent. Instead the correct solution is join cooking competition. Seriously? These plot holes are just too big to ignore.

This episode might have been fine on its own, but within the context it's just divorced from the rest of the series. Why did the portal go to that island anyway? Naah, just don't think about it, it's so that they can start adventuring from the farthest point. But there are pressing issues in the heart of the kingdom, naaah don't worry about it. It's on pause until they arrive home. Why didn't the hole teleport them to the moon? Naaah don't think about it. It had to be this Island because that's how they start their adventure and had to kill 3 episodes worth of time. Why a cooking competition for earning money and not honest labor or killing monsters or digging for more gems or just ignoring the whole greedy seller and moving on? Naah just don't think about it, it's because.

Am I the only one who finds writing like this annoying? I can't be. Surely. Thing after thing happens just because... no reason or logic. Just to further the "story", which at this point is more like something toddler would come up after just learning how to talk.

@MeanEYE Lol that’s the stupidest fucking “plot hole” I’ve heard. Like we’re gonna get back to the empire soon, right now we’re focusing on this. Also, wouldn’t entering a cooking competition with like literally the world’s best cook be a better way to earn a large sum of money instantly than working a job? “Things just happen because” things happen because they’re setting things up. Don’t want to spoil to much, but the island may seem useless now, but later on things happen that, had they not been to the island, would reshape the entire story. Heck even the tournament arc from the beginning? There’s something that plays a big part in the story later that wouldn’t really make sense had we not seen it. My point is everything is important, even if it doesn’t really feel important now it’ll come up again later.

Also like literally by definition that isn’t a plot hole. You want to call it bad writing fine, you’re allowed to have an opinion, but calling something like this a plot hole doesn’t make sense
Sep 12, 2023 10:51 PM
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May 2021
44
MeanEYE said:
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.

Honestly? Fair. This may seem harsh or closed minded, but I think we need to stop having the perspective we need to slog through everything in the hopes it gets better. You can’t delete what came before “the good stuff,” it’s still the same show, some of the flaws are too foundational to remove. Especially given there are so many anime that show how great they are in the first five episodes. So yeah, I think he can say this when he doesn’t know where it goes.
AraumCSep 12, 2023 10:54 PM
YO!
Sep 13, 2023 12:06 AM

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May 2021
436
Reply to UnfunnyKing
MeanEYE said:
@UnfunnyKing my rating is probably more pessimistic than most and for me 10/10 show has to be rewatchable among other things which for example 86 is but Fullmetal Alchemist is not. But regardless of that fact, I can't imagine this show jumping to a 9/10 all of the sudden, even if we ignore the fact we are half way through it.

Yes I agree with your overarching argument there, I was just curious as to your perspective on anime’s ratings. I’ve watched Attack on Titan multiple times now so I’m curious about your rating on that. Also, just randomly, what’s your rating and rationale on Steins;Gate?
@UnfunnyKing honestly didn't like Steins;Gate all that much. It's well written and made, but to me story wasn't as big of a mystery as is was to everyone else it seems. But overall there weren't many flaws in it as far as I can remember. It's been a while since I watched it. I didn't finish Attack on Titan. Season two (or was it 3) broke it for me. I know the show later recovered from that but I never got back to it.
Sep 13, 2023 12:08 AM

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May 2021
436
Reply to Ochimusha
@MeanEYE Fullmetal Alchemist is incredibly rewatchable. There are so many different characters with well developed perspectives and motives that a second watch can be even more rewarding than the first. I've seen it three times and have barely even considered the gate among other things.
@KINOKOMORGUE Characters are great in Fullmetal Alchemist. Sadly I watched non-Brotherhood version first which ends in a stupid way and diverts from manga. When Brotherhood came along first show basically ruined it for me. This is in part why it's not rewatchable for me. It's a great story with awesome ending tough. I really have no complaints about it other than original messing with my memory and ruining rewatching of brotherhood.
Sep 13, 2023 12:18 AM

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May 2021
436
Reply to TheColdMayor
3inPunisher said:
@TheColdMayor this is his "plot hole complaint"

MeanEYE
Sep 12, 2023, 7:15 PM
#28
Is this the new thing? People are just going to forget and/or ignore the fact there's invasion going on back home and they need to get back as soon as possible. Let's not buy map from elsewhere but this one particular place or force the guy to give it to them or sell. One robbery surely trumps death of a continent. Instead the correct solution is join cooking competition. Seriously? These plot holes are just too big to ignore.

This episode might have been fine on its own, but within the context it's just divorced from the rest of the series. Why did the portal go to that island anyway? Naah, just don't think about it, it's so that they can start adventuring from the farthest point. But there are pressing issues in the heart of the kingdom, naaah don't worry about it. It's on pause until they arrive home. Why didn't the hole teleport them to the moon? Naaah don't think about it. It had to be this Island because that's how they start their adventure and had to kill 3 episodes worth of time. Why a cooking competition for earning money and not honest labor or killing monsters or digging for more gems or just ignoring the whole greedy seller and moving on? Naah just don't think about it, it's because.

Am I the only one who finds writing like this annoying? I can't be. Surely. Thing after thing happens just because... no reason or logic. Just to further the "story", which at this point is more like something toddler would come up after just learning how to talk.

@MeanEYE Lol that’s the stupidest fucking “plot hole” I’ve heard. Like we’re gonna get back to the empire soon, right now we’re focusing on this. Also, wouldn’t entering a cooking competition with like literally the world’s best cook be a better way to earn a large sum of money instantly than working a job? “Things just happen because” things happen because they’re setting things up. Don’t want to spoil to much, but the island may seem useless now, but later on things happen that, had they not been to the island, would reshape the entire story. Heck even the tournament arc from the beginning? There’s something that plays a big part in the story later that wouldn’t really make sense had we not seen it. My point is everything is important, even if it doesn’t really feel important now it’ll come up again later.

Also like literally by definition that isn’t a plot hole. You want to call it bad writing fine, you’re allowed to have an opinion, but calling something like this a plot hole doesn’t make sense
@TheColdMayor incredibly stupid way of earning money especially considering who they are. What I am calling plot holes is the fact he alone is capable of doing anything, she is not too far behind and that fact is never used. She is essentially royalty but at no point is that recognized. Even if all of the parts are reused later, right now it feels disconnected and pointless. Not to mention poor pacing. Manga might be good and story might be better developed there, but that's not what we are talking about here, is it?

Writing is not just bad, it's not even respecting rules they themselves set and we are expected to just forget about everything and conveniently ignore it. You might call it whatever you like, it's not good or entertaining. You knowing how story develops doesn't justify this adaptation lacking in presentation and story telling.
Sep 13, 2023 12:25 AM

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May 2021
436
Reply to AraumC
MeanEYE said:
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.

Honestly? Fair. This may seem harsh or closed minded, but I think we need to stop having the perspective we need to slog through everything in the hopes it gets better. You can’t delete what came before “the good stuff,” it’s still the same show, some of the flaws are too foundational to remove. Especially given there are so many anime that show how great they are in the first five episodes. So yeah, I think he can say this when he doesn’t know where it goes.
@AraumC my point exactly. What I said was only in respect to what I watched. Manga might be awesome, but I didn't read that. And you are completely right, I am not going to slog through something just because some people give it 10/10 because they read Manga. No one knows how anime is going to develop or how they will adapt original works. Right now am on a verge of dropping it simply because they went another competition route, which I always find is a cheap way to add drama to anything instead of writing a compelling story. Whenever I see competition of any sorts, my expectations drop. Not because competition in itself is bad, but because it's usually an indicator that authors are taking shortcuts and are willing to sacrifice many things to add fake drama. It was average but now it has dropped a bit lower for me. Combine that with lazy animation from fight with king and we reach threshold for red flags in my eyes.
Sep 13, 2023 3:36 AM
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Apr 2022
2041
Reply to AraumC
MeanEYE said:
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.

Honestly? Fair. This may seem harsh or closed minded, but I think we need to stop having the perspective we need to slog through everything in the hopes it gets better. You can’t delete what came before “the good stuff,” it’s still the same show, some of the flaws are too foundational to remove. Especially given there are so many anime that show how great they are in the first five episodes. So yeah, I think he can say this when he doesn’t know where it goes.
@AraumC why would it need to delete the stuff that came before it? The slow build up is the entire reason you can make such a great payoff. The slow drip of information as you continue to see the main characters bond is what makes the big moments hit. If you delete that stuff it doesnt work
Sep 13, 2023 3:38 AM
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Apr 2022
2041
Reply to MeanEYE
There's no pile of diamonds within our reach. It might get better but it's still better in comparison to what we currently have, which is meh at best. So far from what I've seen it's plot hole after plot hole and random events that delay the main story. Main story which was sold to us as pressing and urgent issue.

If this show gets dramatically better, it will get average but never good. This show can never be 9/10. It's simply impossible because damage has already been done. Animation alone prevents it from being even a 7, let alone shitty writing. Or are you suggesting that this show is at the level of shows like 86, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, etc. You have to be joking... Even latest season of Daemon Slayer, which is by far the worst in series, has more consistent story and significantly better art.

I can understand liking something even though it's flawed, but lets not get carried away and call this 9/10. It's never going to get even close to it.
@MeanEYE Have you read it? No. Then don't form an opinion on stuff you havent seen. (And btw yes I will happily suggest that Helck is better then 2/3 of the shows you mentioned, after all 86 s2 drags way more then helck)
Sep 13, 2023 3:50 AM
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@Peenutz My point is, that shouldn’t be a bad experience. There is no payoff worth twenty episodes of boring buildup, and that many mediocre episodes makes a mediocre experience overall no matter how it ends, but twenty good episodes building up that twist makes the final payoff that much better. And so far, Helck has struggled with issues that won’t go away just because of some cool resolution, and you can’t deny it’s taking a long time to become great. Because of that, the *overall* experience is lessened, and the payoff just can’t hit as hard.

I don’t hate this show, mind you, I’m sticking with it, but it would take Vinland Saga S2 level quality in the second half to change my mind, that it is worth it for everyone to push through when there are other shows around that are good from the start.
YO!
Sep 13, 2023 4:36 AM

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MeanEYE said:
@TheColdMayor incredibly stupid way of earning money especially considering who they are. What I am calling plot holes is the fact he alone is capable of doing anything, she is not too far behind and that fact is never used. She is essentially royalty but at no point is that recognized. Even if all of the parts are reused later, right now it feels disconnected and pointless. Not to mention poor pacing. Manga might be good and story might be better developed there, but that's not what we are talking about here, is it?

Writing is not just bad, it's not even respecting rules they themselves set and we are expected to just forget about everything and conveniently ignore it. You might call it whatever you like, it's not good or entertaining. You knowing how story develops doesn't justify this adaptation lacking in presentation and story telling.

My point is you can’t rate something you haven’t seen. That’s why if you want to rate it low so far then that’s perfectly fine since you’ve actually SEEN it. Also for the cooking, why would entering a competition be a dumb way to earn a large sum of money fast? How else would they do it? Work a 9-5 for the next 4 years? You said it yourself but they don’t have that kind of time. Also you seem to have forgotten Vamirio is still undercover, so she wouldn’t want to reveal that to anyone. Plus she’s not royalty, that’s just her rank, and there are another 2 ranks above her so she’s not allowed to just go around robbing people
Sep 13, 2023 5:19 AM
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AraumC said:
@Peenutz My point is, that shouldn’t be a bad experience. There is no payoff worth twenty episodes of boring buildup, and that many mediocre episodes makes a mediocre experience overall no matter how it ends, but twenty good episodes building up that twist makes the final payoff that much better. And so far, Helck has struggled with issues that won’t go away just because of some cool resolution, and you can’t deny it’s taking a long time to become great. Because of that, the *overall* experience is lessened, and the payoff just can’t hit as hard.

I don’t hate this show, mind you, I’m sticking with it, but it would take Vinland Saga S2 level quality in the second half to change my mind, that it is worth it for everyone to push through when there are other shows around that are good from the start.

I get that but there it wouldn’t work the same if they did it differently
Sep 13, 2023 1:37 PM
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May 2022
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You manga readers keep saying this story gets better but it takes time to get there and I sure hope you're right.
It's not a problem for me to keep watching because I don't drop shows, but I guess a lot of people might be losing hope after the last episodes.
I feel this might be one of those shows where a binge watch might be helpful, because then people might be done faster with the first part and get to the good part quickly.
Sep 13, 2023 2:26 PM
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Dan_ALves said:
You manga readers keep saying this story gets better but it takes time to get there and I sure hope you're right.
It's not a problem for me to keep watching because I don't drop shows, but I guess a lot of people might be losing hope after the last episodes.
I feel this might be one of those shows where a binge watch might be helpful, because then people might be done faster with the first part and get to the good part quickly.

A binge is definitely better. It also works more in the manga where reading 30 chapters is faster then 10-11 anime eps. I am of the opinion they should’ve cut more content but I know a lot of people would be very mad if they did
Sep 13, 2023 2:39 PM
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Reply to Peenutz
Dan_ALves said:
You manga readers keep saying this story gets better but it takes time to get there and I sure hope you're right.
It's not a problem for me to keep watching because I don't drop shows, but I guess a lot of people might be losing hope after the last episodes.
I feel this might be one of those shows where a binge watch might be helpful, because then people might be done faster with the first part and get to the good part quickly.

A binge is definitely better. It also works more in the manga where reading 30 chapters is faster then 10-11 anime eps. I am of the opinion they should’ve cut more content but I know a lot of people would be very mad if they did
@Peenutz That is one problem with adaptations. people who read the source material usually want everything they read to be put in the anime, and sometimes not everything needs to be there for the story to progress and make sense. I don´t know if this is the case here, but there it is.
This show might be like Steins Gate, which also took a while to get going but when it did it absolutely paid off all that world building. I might say that it hit harder because of it. But before you get to the good stuff, you never know if it´s worth it and that´s where we are with Helck.
Sep 13, 2023 4:00 PM
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Apr 2022
2041
Reply to Dan_ALves
@Peenutz That is one problem with adaptations. people who read the source material usually want everything they read to be put in the anime, and sometimes not everything needs to be there for the story to progress and make sense. I don´t know if this is the case here, but there it is.
This show might be like Steins Gate, which also took a while to get going but when it did it absolutely paid off all that world building. I might say that it hit harder because of it. But before you get to the good stuff, you never know if it´s worth it and that´s where we are with Helck.
@Dan_ALves I think the pay off will definitely be like steins gate. It will benefit a ton from all the episodes of characters doing random shit we sit through, but I’m not entirely sure that all of it is so necessary that it really justifies slowing down a lot of the anime. Thing is I’m sure it wouldn’t feel nearly as long if you binged it but weekly it’s a rough wait
Sep 14, 2023 1:37 PM

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Nov 2021
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Guess i am one of few who didn't mind the last few episodes, probably because of the genres i usually watch i could watch Helck's and Vermilio's shenanigans on the island for even longer lol

I mean, action is cool and all but i love my SoL nonsense haha...and Vermilio was just too good

I have the manga ready but will read it after the anime is finished
Sep 14, 2023 7:18 PM
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127
Reply to MeanEYE
@UnfunnyKing honestly didn't like Steins;Gate all that much. It's well written and made, but to me story wasn't as big of a mystery as is was to everyone else it seems. But overall there weren't many flaws in it as far as I can remember. It's been a while since I watched it. I didn't finish Attack on Titan. Season two (or was it 3) broke it for me. I know the show later recovered from that but I never got back to it.
@MeanEYE Trust me when I say it does more than just recover, I think I know the general area that you stopped but season 3 part 2 is extremally good and season 4 is what makes the show a masterpiece. I stopped watching the show at some point where you did for like 3 months but picked it up again and after watching season 4 it became my favourite anime. I was tempted to drop the show but now I'm damn glad I didn't, you really should keep watching.
Sep 14, 2023 7:25 PM
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127
Reply to Peenutz
Dan_ALves said:
You manga readers keep saying this story gets better but it takes time to get there and I sure hope you're right.
It's not a problem for me to keep watching because I don't drop shows, but I guess a lot of people might be losing hope after the last episodes.
I feel this might be one of those shows where a binge watch might be helpful, because then people might be done faster with the first part and get to the good part quickly.

A binge is definitely better. It also works more in the manga where reading 30 chapters is faster then 10-11 anime eps. I am of the opinion they should’ve cut more content but I know a lot of people would be very mad if they did
@Peenutz I really noticed this from the only two large mangas I've read when comparing it to the show. One Punch Man the manga is really good but when I watched the show it felt too slow, I couldn't bring myself to watch past halfway through season 2. And as for Chainsaw Man the anime feels weirdly different than the manga but sometimes in a good way, I found myself mourning a character death wayyy more with the animes slow pacing than in the manga where I was just in shock.
Sep 15, 2023 1:20 AM

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May 2021
436
Reply to UnfunnyKing
@MeanEYE Trust me when I say it does more than just recover, I think I know the general area that you stopped but season 3 part 2 is extremally good and season 4 is what makes the show a masterpiece. I stopped watching the show at some point where you did for like 3 months but picked it up again and after watching season 4 it became my favourite anime. I was tempted to drop the show but now I'm damn glad I didn't, you really should keep watching.
@UnfunnyKing yup. Am aware and have heard same praises from a lot of people. One of these days I suppose.
Sep 15, 2023 1:25 AM

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May 2021
436
Reply to LainWulf
Guess i am one of few who didn't mind the last few episodes, probably because of the genres i usually watch i could watch Helck's and Vermilio's shenanigans on the island for even longer lol

I mean, action is cool and all but i love my SoL nonsense haha...and Vermilio was just too good

I have the manga ready but will read it after the anime is finished
@LainWulf the problem is not episode by episode content, but show in its entirety. We've been presented with a pressing situation of kingdom falling, urgent need for new daemon lord topped by the invasion of humans who have figured out some cheat codes... then it decides to do nothing few episodes and expects us to forget the urgency set beforehand.

Had they started with messing about on the island and then looped back to retrospectively to all the mess happening then it wouldn't feel as jarring. But this way it's too disconnected and they expect us to not think what they told us to think.
Sep 15, 2023 8:37 AM

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2685
Much like Dark Gathering, Helck is a 2-cour feature in this season that starts very slow and out of nowhere becomes impressively good.

It's a shame it takes so long to build-up, but reading the manga, I can sincerely vouch for the quality of both shows starting from their second cour.
Sep 17, 2023 9:52 AM

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Nov 2013
6769
Reply to 3inPunisher
@TheColdMayor this is his "plot hole complaint"

MeanEYE
Sep 12, 2023, 7:15 PM
#28
Is this the new thing? People are just going to forget and/or ignore the fact there's invasion going on back home and they need to get back as soon as possible. Let's not buy map from elsewhere but this one particular place or force the guy to give it to them or sell. One robbery surely trumps death of a continent. Instead the correct solution is join cooking competition. Seriously? These plot holes are just too big to ignore.

This episode might have been fine on its own, but within the context it's just divorced from the rest of the series. Why did the portal go to that island anyway? Naah, just don't think about it, it's so that they can start adventuring from the farthest point. But there are pressing issues in the heart of the kingdom, naaah don't worry about it. It's on pause until they arrive home. Why didn't the hole teleport them to the moon? Naaah don't think about it. It had to be this Island because that's how they start their adventure and had to kill 3 episodes worth of time. Why a cooking competition for earning money and not honest labor or killing monsters or digging for more gems or just ignoring the whole greedy seller and moving on? Naah just don't think about it, it's because.

Am I the only one who finds writing like this annoying? I can't be. Surely. Thing after thing happens just because... no reason or logic. Just to further the "story", which at this point is more like something toddler would come up after just learning how to talk.
3inPunisher said:
Is this the new thing? People are just going to forget and/or ignore the fact there's invasion going on back home and they need to get back as soon as possible. Let's not buy map from elsewhere but this one particular place or force the guy to give it to them or sell. One robbery surely trumps death of a continent. Instead the correct solution is join cooking competition. Seriously? These plot holes are just too big to ignore.

You obviously have no idea what "plot hole" is.

Plus, since episode 1 there's been plenty of goofy moments. It should be obvious that the story isn't taking itself too seriously at all times, like "86" or "AOT" for instance.

3inPunisher said:
they need to get back as soon as possible
And? Should they be running 24/7? Helck seems like a type who can theoretically run non-stop for several days straight. So if he doesn't = bad writing? Bruh...

3inPunisher said:
One robbery surely trumps death of a continent
Another "bruh" moment. Also, death of a continent? What are you even talking about? It was mentioned that demon kingdom is fighting other enemies and so far humans aren't even the biggest threat. My point is, demon kingdom is not likely to collapse because Vamirio is gone.

3inPunisher said:
Why did the portal go to that island anyway? Naah, just don't think about it,

The portal was unstable and the location was random.
3inPunisher said:
Why didn't the hole teleport them to the moon?

Because of plot-convenience of course! People can cry about those in literally every movie, book or anime in existence. Yes, theoretically they could've been transported to the moon, the surface of the sun, the middle of the ocean, or the middle of the desert and starved to death (as Vamirio herself said in the show!!!), but they got "lucky". OBVIOUSLY if they have been teleported to the moon and DIED then there'd be no more story to tell, DUUH.

3inPunisher said:
Why a cooking competition for earning money and not honest labor or killing monsters or digging for more gems or just ignoring the whole greedy seller and moving on? Naah just don't think about it
You're nitpicking so hard. Maybe you should just drop the show and find something more "serious".
Cooking competition made sense as it promised big sum of money the same day!!! + Helck won in cooking competition already! Why should they have ignored literal free money??? You contradict yourself with "honest labor". Do you know how long it would take them to gather money? Do you know if anyone else had the map? You're assuming too much and doing nothing else but ruining enjoyment for yourself.
Sep 20, 2023 2:59 AM

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May 2022
540
Loving the show so far and honestly I'm not surprised by what you are saying since despite the shows constant comedy their has been an unmistakable darkness behind it all... Its been shown clearly since episode 1 and hinted throughout the rest of the episodes sparingly. Most folks just don't pay enough attention to details in whats presented visually, and sound wise, and dialogue. But I don't doubt it at all that this show will get very serious... very fast.
Sep 20, 2023 4:21 AM
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Feb 2022
64
The japanese audience rightfully picked up from the get go that Helck is an old time fantasy story. It speaks to people who don't assume everything must be an isekai with RPG gaming mechanics and episodic checklists. It's humbling and disorienting to the western otaku's entitlement, that we're really just here to hear a nice story and not rehash any isekai tropes.

Just to laugh at the haters some more, see how the broad spectrum of Helck's contents is forcing them to move the goalposts every time. We must have gotten already to the ninth ultimate reason why Helck sucks. And mind you, they had started with "it's not as good as Mashle and has basically the same story as Yuusha Yamemasu".
Sep 20, 2023 8:17 AM

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Dec 2016
1352
Reply to xdiesp
The japanese audience rightfully picked up from the get go that Helck is an old time fantasy story. It speaks to people who don't assume everything must be an isekai with RPG gaming mechanics and episodic checklists. It's humbling and disorienting to the western otaku's entitlement, that we're really just here to hear a nice story and not rehash any isekai tropes.

Just to laugh at the haters some more, see how the broad spectrum of Helck's contents is forcing them to move the goalposts every time. We must have gotten already to the ninth ultimate reason why Helck sucks. And mind you, they had started with "it's not as good as Mashle and has basically the same story as Yuusha Yamemasu".
xdiesp said:
Just to laugh at the haters some more, see how the broad spectrum of Helck's contents is forcing them to move the goalposts every time. We must have gotten already to the ninth ultimate reason why Helck sucks. And mind you, they had started with "it's not as good as Mashle and has basically the same story as Yuusha Yamemasu".


You say that as if the handful of fanboys don't have to find the time to make a copium reply of "muh anime is a hidden gem". If this show was objectively good, it would have attracted way more people. You even admit that it's a lesser copy of Mashle and Yuusha Yamemasu and those were already just average shows (specially Yuusha Yamemasu that the only good asset was the writting, everything else was barebones)

Edit: next time make your copium posts with your main account, not your empty list alt account.
KimurahSep 20, 2023 8:23 AM
Sep 20, 2023 9:15 AM
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Feb 2022
64
Reply to Kimurah
xdiesp said:
Just to laugh at the haters some more, see how the broad spectrum of Helck's contents is forcing them to move the goalposts every time. We must have gotten already to the ninth ultimate reason why Helck sucks. And mind you, they had started with "it's not as good as Mashle and has basically the same story as Yuusha Yamemasu".


You say that as if the handful of fanboys don't have to find the time to make a copium reply of "muh anime is a hidden gem". If this show was objectively good, it would have attracted way more people. You even admit that it's a lesser copy of Mashle and Yuusha Yamemasu and those were already just average shows (specially Yuusha Yamemasu that the only good asset was the writting, everything else was barebones)

Edit: next time make your copium posts with your main account, not your empty list alt account.
@Kimurah we can share our homeopathic copium if you want it so bad, but after the beatdowns LordKirkis keeps giving you, you should probably see a real doctor.
Sep 20, 2023 10:24 AM
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Oct 2012
13
this shit is good, no way im dropping that, anime of the season :\
Sep 20, 2023 4:32 PM

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Dec 2016
1352
Reply to xdiesp
@Kimurah we can share our homeopathic copium if you want it so bad, but after the beatdowns LordKirkis keeps giving you, you should probably see a real doctor.
@xdiesp

Dang it, this is some next level deflection that even Trump would be proud of. Hilarious that you think that Lordkek had the upper hand in any of our debates, when that guy doesn't even understands how Japan's animation industry works and it's nothing about budget but actually hiring competent animators and a good working schedule, something this sham of fictional work didn't even get on the most basic level.

Feel flattered you were so infatuated with poor little me that you felt so empty handed on a rebutal that you had to check up on my board history and create a false narrative to feel vindicated on your dollar store anime being critcized by people like me that understands the basics of directing and animation.
Sep 27, 2023 12:42 AM

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May 2022
540
Reply to xdiesp
@Kimurah we can share our homeopathic copium if you want it so bad, but after the beatdowns LordKirkis keeps giving you, you should probably see a real doctor.
@xdiesp

LMAO. Tickled... thats how I would describe the interaction. Very tickled. No point in proceeding with that, just move along.
LordKirkisSep 27, 2023 12:50 AM
Sep 27, 2023 5:24 AM

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Dec 2009
404
I had no issues with pacing, it was always in service of building up the mistery of Helck, the heroes and the humans. Might check out the manga anyways.
Sep 27, 2023 9:03 AM

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Dec 2016
1352
Reply to LordKirkis
@xdiesp

LMAO. Tickled... thats how I would describe the interaction. Very tickled. No point in proceeding with that, just move along.
@LordKirkis Just admit that xdies is your alt account and you need validation on your baseless and misinformed arguments and failure to prove your own words (you never explained how it was a parody).

Hilarious that you claim "no need in proceeding with that" since the last posts of our debate, but you kept replying to me or indirectly. Typical guy with nothing to add, but wants to have the last word despite.
KimurahSep 27, 2023 9:09 AM
Sep 27, 2023 11:30 PM

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May 2022
540
Reply to Kimurah
@LordKirkis Just admit that xdies is your alt account and you need validation on your baseless and misinformed arguments and failure to prove your own words (you never explained how it was a parody).

Hilarious that you claim "no need in proceeding with that" since the last posts of our debate, but you kept replying to me or indirectly. Typical guy with nothing to add, but wants to have the last word despite.
@Kimurah Oh you got me there buddy. And your right on all counts. Heck when haven't you've been right? At this point I'm convinced you know everything; no doubt you're an anime genius, so I can't even think to waste your time with my more of my worthless dribble.

So I think for now lets look forward to more of this amazing show thats providing us so much fun. I am certain you will continue to enjoy the show in your own unique way as well. I'll drink to that! Goodbye for now.. Buddy.
LordKirkisSep 27, 2023 11:47 PM

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