Hopefully the writing isn't as dreadful as in the games.

Mystogan03 said:
I saw something some days ago and I kinda agree

We play with Class VII.

Class VII is diminished by Rean SHITwarzer ''greatness''. Laura train everyday but Rean somehow is stronger than her. Crow used Ordine for 2 years and yet Rean defeated him with the power of friendship. Emma is trying to lift the curse from Rean's body and discover the truth in Erebonia like her mother but she fails in both cause she is not the main protagonist.

Rean SHITwarzer is a passive MC and never moves the plot forward, except when people tied to class vii start to being caught in the ''war''

The responsible for moves the plot are the 4D Chess between the Arnors. Olivier is a good character in SKY but in CS his character sucks. Musse = Shit.

The arnors are hostage of Ishmelga's curse.

The entire ''Trails series'' from Sky FC to CS4 was a great prophecy observed by AZOTH who writted the Black Records and alowed Osborne (the fake main antagonist) to trick Ishmelga and destroy it

But somehow Ouroboros members are above all of it and it was all acording to Grandmaster's plan

I mean...WTF!

They ruined 7 games of wordbuilding in CS3 just for that shit ending?

MonkeyDHunter said:


Agreed with everything you said barring the curse but I understand the issue because I wasn't initially onboard with that idea either. But the thing is that the whole thing was created by the Sept-Terrions which created the Great One that afterwards was split into the 7 Knights. It was explicitly said by Vailmar that the whole curse was created by the people's greed and hatred in the first place. Think of the curse as the intrusive thoughts people generally have and force them into committing atrocities that they would be capable of yet hesitant to accomplish but far more intense. They don't make them evil, greedy etc, they already are but the curse is pushing them by feeding on their negative emotions to commit those crimes that under normal circumstances they wouldn't. Otherwise, the whole series would be over since everyone is now good period.

Also, something similar happened in Sky. Aureole was granting wishes of Gospel owners and just like the Erebonian curse gained its own autonomy and tried to interfere with human affairs by assisting them but deteriorated their lives. A report in SC told this:



It's evident that the Sept-Terrions are too dangerous for humans since they are exposing their weaknesses by affecting their minds.

AzurealX said:


Are you shitting me lmao?
Barely any LN elements?

Rean is literally every katana wielding black haired LN protag in existence. Coupled with the characters being one dimensional tropes like a Kuudere, Tsundere, etc. and the first character conflict literally opens with Rean accidentally groping Alisa's boobs in a typical LN fashion. The harem aspect itself is a LN trope and is a lot more prominent than you're claiming it is. As to why it's a flaw?
It quite literally forces the characters to be written in such a way that there's always an open door for Rean to waifu any girl whenever he wants and actively ruins character dynamics that fans wanted to see, like Kurt and Juna.
It doesn't help that the cast has zero chemistry together because they have NO TIME to build it up. Why? Because they're too busy talking about how amazing Rean is.

The Bonding system also really hurts the overarching aspect of the series. Because the relationships literally reset every game, making the canonical state of the character relations crappy and vague, with every female stuck at the stage where they potentially have a crush on Rean.

Cold Steel 3 and 4 are not only poorly balanced in terms of gameplay to the point where the gameplay is essentially Craft spamming, whereas Sky and Crossbell required you to plan your moves, buff yourself with Arts, etc. when needed and so on - Rean is a broken unit.

Then there's Cold Steel actively retconning stuff from the previous arcs. Even that aside, how about Cold Steel 4?
It took a crap on every villain the series was building up to that point. All the villains that Class 7 beat there were shown to be able to beat all of Class 7 while SOLO, but they actually lost in a GAUNTLET of all things, fell one after another because ''CLASS 7 IS DETERMINED'' yay friendship power.
It's the single worst offender of power scaling in the series.

Also, so what if Rean is the most popular Trails character? That's partially because he's a self-insert. Literally Adol is voted as the #1 Falcom character and he's also a self-insert blank slate.

Cold Steel will forever remain a stain on this franchise. Thankfully Kuro no Kiseki brought back the quality in the franchise - although the west is probably gonna get it all the way in 2025.

Luthandorius said:
To be honest: I only know Trails in the Sky (first two parts I think their is also a 3rd one with the church guy that I did not play). Someone recommended it. For the newer games my computer is too old I barely game anything - besides old RPG maker games maybe. :D Newer games (the Cold Steel ones - afaik this anime is related to them) I saw on Steam ... in the later parts screenshots that looked like they were (still) on some military academy - some characters. Do not like that the Japanese have to fit schools/academies into everything.

And wile for the Trails in the Sky I liked the 2nd part where the plot developed a lot ... it hat it's weaknesses (even in the 2nd part a bit still) - the setup with the different areas and missions ... felt episodic. And espcially in the first half it was pretty boring.

I hope this anime can be watched standalone since I do not plan to play the Cold Steel games - and I hope the plot is going to be straightforward. No SoL or school festival included. :D Just military action and strategizing + politics maybe.

AzurealX said:
For the uninitiated.
The Kiseki series, or Trails series in English are a long-running JRPG series spanning an overarching narrative across 10 titles, soon to be 11.

The first 2 arcs which consist of the first 5 installments are respected through out JRPG circles for their attention to world building and charming characters with organic interactions.

Now, this anime is related to the third arc in the series, Trails of Cold Steel and it's reputation is a lot less... pristine.
It dives head first into generic Light Novel character archetypes and tropes, something which wasn't present nearly at all in the former arcs and does nothing with them, it introduces a bonding/Harem system that actively hampers character development as some characters' character arcs are locked behind specific bonding events. And even more insulting, the ''chosen waifu'' doesn't carry over from game to game... IN AN OVERARCHING NARRATIVE. This creates a jarring disconnect between each sequel and detracts from the already shallow cast solely designed around waifu appeal points.

All of that on top of tons of filler side plots and padding that effectively turn a main narrative that could've been told in 30 hours into a 50+ hour journey.

TLDR: The Cold Steel games are bad and this will probably be bad.

Musika said:
 
OP: Cold steel games are bad, worst in the franchise.
The whole world: literally never even heard of the trails franchise until cold steel.

Maybe Cold Steel is actually good and carried the whole franchise bringing a bunch of new fans ? ... Nah, the world must be trippin.

Kujou_Kuon said:
you say can that again, i wonder why they see it so bad. i may not have started playing Cold Steel cuz i was busy with the Crossbell Arc. i still know that the story between Crossbell Arc and Erebonia Arc are connected, there are still some questions that i had after playing Trails from Zero.
NOTE: setting up my controller on my laptop just to play Kiseki series for now.

AzurealX said:
This anime getting poor ratings is well deserved, and because the anime community has no sunk cost fallacy like a lot of people in the fanbase iwth the amount of time they've invested, they're pretty capable of rating it more accurately.

This 6.57 rating is pretty fitting.  The writing of the CS games isn't substantially different at all but the Falcom community has existed only in a bubble so far, this is the first real taste they have with any general non-initiated community and it shows what your average joe would think about Cold Steel's writing.

Marina2 said:
I just hope I won't see this in anime.......

-------------------------------------------------
Kiseki writing 101
.................................................
1. Go to new region
2. Something happened
3.MCs group get involved and tries to fix it
4. Meet a new strong boss character(s)
5. Mcs group lost to him
6. Someone come to help
7. Boss run away.
8. Repeat Step 1-7 for every chapters
................................................

Marina2 said:
I just hope I won't see this in anime.......

-------------------------------------------------
Kiseki writing 101
.................................................
1. Go to new region
2. Something happened
3.MCs group get involved and tries to fix it
4. Meet a new strong boss character(s)
5. Mcs group lost to him
6. Someone come to help
7. Boss run away.
8. Repeat Step 1-7 for every chapters
................................................

UTMAN said:

That takes the cake for being the most disingenuous description I've ever seen someone give. So congrats. I can give you multiple chapters from multiple games from the Kiseki series that does not follow this formula, also like you just kinda(?) described most RPG/Shounen/Adventure anime.
Like
" 1. Go to new region
2. Something happened
3.MCs group get involved and tries to fix it"

Like wtf... :D Yes let's stay in a place where nothing happens and the MC-s don't want to do anything. That sounds like a perfect and a fascinating game. It's a wonder why you are not heavily in game development. Smh..

I love how you only focused on 1-3 when I wrote 1-8 as the entire pattern. Please focus on 4-7, especially.

, not as bad as Cold Steel 2&3.

Look at Cold Steel 2 final dungeon for example, after the first boss fight, other floors follow the exact same format
0. MCs enters new floor
1. MCs meet the boss
2. MC defeated them
3. BUT....The cut scene show boss powered up
4. Mcs can't fight them
5. Other character(s) come to help them
6. Mcs run away to next floor
7. Repeat 1-6 for every floors except the top floor.

Like, can't they change what happens during 3-6, instead of doing the same thing over and over?

UTMAN said:
@Marina2

Well I focused on it since you were wrong from the very beginning. But since you specifically asked me ...



So Sky 2nd...  There are 8 chapters with a final one.

1st and 2nd chapter that's indeed the case.

Against Blueblanc they get their shadow bound and Dorothy saves them and against Walter, Zin shows up. That's the first 2.

However, your pattern suddenly falls flat on its ass, since in chapter 3 they don't fight against Renne and they actually defeat the tank with Amalthea in it.
Similarly, in Chapter 4 they face Luciola without any external help and in chapter 5 it's true that they get external help against Loewe, but the final boss there is Regnard who the team actually manages to free from mind control without you guessed it...external help.
Then after comes the Ouroboros Facility where they are defeated and don't get any external help
On the Glorius, Estelle beats the enhanced Jaegers, though she gets saved by Joshua from Loewe.
Then comes the towers where the team defeats or at least manages to hold every single enforcer without external help.
Then in the Liber Ark, every enforcer is defeated. The only time they get help is against the final boss after he absorbs a fucking septerrion and even that was only a small help by smashing the barrier it had. After that, they defeat him fair and square.

Maybe the first 2 chapters generously fit your points and the rest are nowhere near close to what you wrote.


Oh Cold Steel 3?

Once again no, not really.

Chapter 1 finale, Class VII defeats Duvalie and Shirley and they defeat the Aion. No external help.
Chapter 2 finale, they manage to hold off McBurn and Campanella and defeat the Aion. No external help.
Chapter 3 finale. This is where they get help from Aurelia, without her they would not have been able to defeat Arianrhod.
Chapter 4 finale. They defeat the Dark Dragon without any external help.
Final Dungeon/Spiral of Erebos, they manage to hold off every single boss but they are ultimately defeated.

Where are they getting any external help exactly to defeat the chapter's last boss?
If you thinking mid-chapter shennanigans, well it's not really "other characters" since every time members of Class VII come.


Wait wait wait....
You are immediately disqualified. That's not the final dungeon. The final dungeon is the Reverie Corridor. ANd if I am being technical even that isn't the final, but the Geofront. But I'm not going to go there.

Now we made this clear. Let's go with what you said.

There are differences between the floors. There is nuance to it. Especially 1/2 and 3.

There are 4 main floors.

1. floor there is Blueblanc and Duvalie. They manage to beat them. They indeed power up. It's not like they can't fight them. They certainly could. They just don't have time. So 2 people tag them out so they can continue.
2. floor similar pattern against this floor's boss.

The only floor they get actually saved is at floor 3. Where they are outclassed, and Rean considers bringing Valimar in. IF you look back he did not even think about bringing it in at the first 2 floors. 

And in the final floor, they do 4 boss battles without external help.

-They defeat Crow/Vita
- Defeat Crow in a Divine Knight battle
- Defeat Vermillion Apocalypse
- Defeat Vermillion Apocalypse in a Divine Knight Battle

So we have 3 boss fights where they get "saved" and 4 others where they don't. 

I am not in the mood to write an overly long reply, I will only talk about your reply on Cold Steel 2 since I believe it is the easiest to get my point across to you.

Those little detail you mentions are different, yes, but in in the end - What  happens in each floor is basically the same twist & turn (in general) -- Which is: [Our MCs are ALWAYS unable to completely defeat the boss of each floor (except the top floor) and after the boss fight, someone will ALWAYS appear to keep those bosses busy in order to let MCs group advance to the next floor]

Those are what I meant by 'the pattern'   Not every little details are the same, but overall event are the same, repetitive progression.

Those little detail you mentioned are different, yes, but in in the end -

LostSpectre said:
Yeah, I went ahead and dropped this as soon as I realized it was based on a game.

UTMAN said:
@Marina2

Your first post was initially that every single chapter follows the same pattern, not we are here, you pushing the goalpost to one of the dungeons.

You literally contradict yourself by claiming every single floor, except the top floor.

I literally counted every single boss fight for you, and counted 3 where someone appears and 4 where they defeat the boss.

And even if in this particular dungeon they get help... they defeat before this:
- Vulcan
- Scarlet
- Altina
- Duvalie (when she protects Helmut Albarea)
etc...


It's not like this pattern where they get help keeps repeating even before the whole dungeon, so I really don't understand your point here.

Also, this stuff humanizes characters. Like they are not all-powerful walking Gary/Mary Stue-s and might need sometimes some side character's help.
Also, this makes their development in CS3/4 more satisfying since I explained to you that in CS3 they are more than capable of holding out against Ouroboros' best. For example, Emma/Gaius and Laura could hold off Arianrhod and McBurn.

This is why I called you disingenuous. Like these little details, what makes it different. Like what stops you from making comments like "Well JRPG-s suck cause they all follow the same pattern. Make some basic characters. Some world. Something happens. Villain show up, and at the end a final dungeon happens".

Technically you would be right since like if you break it down to its core yeah JRPG-s are kinda the same. But we both know the devil is in the details.

UTMAN said:

That takes the cake for being the most disingenuous description I've ever seen someone give. So congrats. I can give you multiple chapters from multiple games from the Kiseki series that does not follow this formula, also like you just kinda(?) described most RPG/Shounen/Adventure anime.
Like
" 1. Go to new region
2. Something happened
3.MCs group get involved and tries to fix it"

Like wtf... :D Yes let's stay in a place where nothing happens and the MC-s don't want to do anything. That sounds like a perfect and a fascinating game. It's a wonder why you are not heavily in game development. Smh..

stone616 said:
I'm a Trails fan and that post you quoted summed up a great portion of the happenings in the series. All they forgot was all the overly complicated secondary names everyone gets, the shounen get in a fight but hold back your powers, possible "deaths" where you don't actually see a body for so you know what's going to happen eventually. Lastly at the end of the game most major events are condensed into the last few hours and there's probably some cliffhanger that makes you want to jump into the next game but as soon as you do everything is de-escalated right away.

AzurealX said:


Are you shitting me lmao?
Barely any LN elements?

Rean is literally every katana wielding black haired LN protag in existence. Coupled with the characters being one dimensional tropes like a Kuudere, Tsundere, etc. and the first character conflict literally opens with Rean accidentally groping Alisa's boobs in a typical LN fashion. The harem aspect itself is a LN trope and is a lot more prominent than you're claiming it is. As to why it's a flaw?
It quite literally forces the characters to be written in such a way that there's always an open door for Rean to waifu any girl whenever he wants  and actively ruins character dynamics that fans wanted to see, like Kurt and Juna.
It doesn't help that the cast has zero chemistry together because they have NO TIME to build it up. Why? Because they're too busy talking about how amazing Rean is.

The Bonding system also really hurts the overarching aspect of the series. Because the relationships literally reset every game, making the canonical state of the character relations crappy and vague, with every female stuck at the stage where they potentially have a crush on Rean.

Cold Steel 3 and 4 are not only poorly balanced in terms of gameplay to the point where the gameplay is essentially Craft spamming, whereas Sky and Crossbell required you to plan your moves, buff  yourself with Arts, etc. when needed and so on - Rean is a broken unit.

Then there's Cold Steel actively retconning stuff from the previous arcs. Even that aside, how about Cold Steel 4?
It took a crap on every villain the series was building up to that point. All the villains that Class 7 beat there were shown to be able to beat all of Class 7 while SOLO, but they actually lost in a GAUNTLET of all things, fell one after another because ''CLASS 7 IS DETERMINED'' yay friendship power.
It's the single worst offender of power scaling in the series.

Also, so what if Rean is the most popular Trails character? That's partially because he's a self-insert. Literally Adol is voted as the #1 Falcom character and he's also a self-insert blank slate.

Cold Steel will forever remain a stain on this franchise. Thankfully Kuro no Kiseki brought back the quality in the franchise - although the west is probably gonna get it all the way in 2025.

StateofOhayo said:
absolutely gigachad based desu
i wish i could have played the crossbell games; the move from TiTS to ToCS was jarring, both in terms of story/characters, and overall atmosphere. the harem crap was NEVER enjoyable. with TiTs we had an amazing romance and conflicted, deep characters just to go to ToCS with mega-insert Rean and his harem of thirsty students (not to mention a background story that was supposed to make him seem deep and troubled but was really just annoying when you compare it to Joshua).

AzurealX said:
Yeah, thankfully Kuro no Kiseki doesn't have harem, the relationships are dictated by the plot, not by the player. Unless Kuro 3 randomly decides to screw it up, we should be fine.

razisgosu said:
Oh look cold steel haters, surprise surprise. The Erebonia arc of the series was great. Had tons of great moments and brought back numerous beloved cast members. The games weren't shit and didn't have terrible writing.

Mystogan03 said:
coldsteel fans: no you guys are all wrong! coldsteel games are amazing cause the games are amazing! (and have fanservice like bring back characters from previous games)

OP is right. The anime sucks like coldsteel games

AzurealX said:
It dives head first into generic Light Novel character archetypes and tropes