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lezerman said: I don't get if Arthur can shoot or not, can someone clarify this for me? He can, he just sucks ass at it lol |
| This episode was full of bullshit. Three completely unarmed people survive a rain of bullets from a train full of automatic weapons. Then Ash proceeds to kill EVERYONE on the train with a single 6-shooter, like wtf. Theyre in a frikin subway traincar. There is literally nowhere to hide or dodge bullets; how does Ash only get grazed once?! |
~my list
| Awesome badass episode! Arthur! you're now finished at the hands of Ash Lynx! japanese boi is so annoying and brings down Ash with him! never learn dude! 5/5. |
 |
Lunallae said: Here's your exact quote: Do you have an exact quote for that point? I haven't been able to dig anything up. Meanwhile, Yut Lung specifically said to Eiji in Volume 5 that "the next present was a small territory in Manhattan to run, and he showed he could keep it with or without Golzine." It's interesting that you point out that Ash wants nothing from Dino because from what I recall, the anime version of Ash does not have this specific characteristic. Last episode's scene at the airport with Ash and Dino had Ash returning both the car and an earring worth the same amount as the one he gave the Fly to Dino because he does not want to owe Dino anything in the manga. The anime removed that part entirely. http://www.mangahere.cc/manga/banana_fish/v05/c003/3.html That was from episode 9 complete with a shot of Arthur's jealous face. In the manga it is vol 5, chapter 3. Arthur insists that Ash took over his turf and gangs with Dino's help during an obvious jealous tantrum and Dino corrects him that he didn't. No matter what Yue-Lung says, I think Golzine is more aware of his relationship with Ash than anybody. He could have gifted Ash territory but clearly Ash didn't take it but there seems to be this general idea that others have of Golzine helping Ash. Due to the favoritism maybe? Although I was way off where it happened (I read the manga in full 11 years ago, gimme a break), I wasn't talking out of my ass like some people on here do that haven't read the source material and are anime only viewers. Although, I know it was brought up somewhere else in the manga when it's remarked how Ash's gang it multi-ethnic and not segregated like other street gangs. |
MetaKiteOct 6, 2018 6:11 PM
Thanks for taking the time to find the quote. It's fine, I wasn't questioning the validity of your statement, I just wanted to see the exact context and text. I also agree that Dino knows much more about Ash in regards to this than Yut Lung. That exact line from Yut Lung simply stuck out to me because I remembered it was cut out of the anime. I think my interpretation still stands, however. Regardless of whether or not Dino actually helped Ash do it, it is implied that Ash only became a gang leader because Dino required it of him. I believe the reason many characters think that Dino is the reason that Ash has gotten as far as he has is because first and foremost, Ash started off as a prostitute. This ties back to the idea that very few characters in this series think of Ash as a human, they tack all sorts of other labels on him which only serve to dehumanize him. |
LunallaeOct 6, 2018 9:00 AM
Lunallae said: I agree for the most part. It was mentioned so many times in the manga how people underestimate him because he was a prostitute. Even in the upcoming arc, the criminals say how Ash's head is best for blowjobs only and nothing more until they start finding out he has a genius IQ. He is almost always equated to nothing more than a sex object until they find out differently! Thanks for taking the time to find the quote. It's fine, I wasn't questioning the validity of your statement, I just wanted to see the exact context and text. I also agree that Dino knows much more about Ash in regards to this than Yut Lung. That exact line from Yut Lung simply stuck out to me because I remembered it was cut out of the anime. I think my interpretation still stands, however. Regardless of whether or not Dino actually helped Ash do it, it is implied that Ash only became a gang leader because Dino required it of him. I believe the reason many characters think that Dino is the reason that Ash has gotten as far as he has is because first and foremost, Ash started off as a prostitute. This ties back to the idea that very few characters in this series think of Ash as a human, they tack all sorts of other labels on him which only serve to dehumanize him. I don't know if Dino "required" it but it was certainly expected of Ash. You can't exactly leave mafia life unless you're dead. As someone stated before, Ash was never ever going to be on the "right side of the law". He was never gonna leave Union Corse and just go to college like a normal person. Instead Dino's men call him a traitor when he defects and Ash expressed how he wasn't interested in trafficking drugs and being a pimp (the life people expect of him). Still, this was something the mafia around him naturally assumed he'd be doing for a living since he was trying to not be a prostitute anymore. I can't say how much it is actually Dino's influence to help Ash along since Ash's history of being his sex slave has left a far more negative impact for Ash than anything else within the mafia. He's just a pretty piece of ass to them and so people just keep assuming Dino must have helped him get to where he is. On that note, Yue-Lung also told Eiji how sleeping with Dino is no big deal and something even Ash did to survive and work his way up with his skills and intelligence. His words seem contradictory as I said before. |
MetaKiteOct 6, 2018 9:34 AM
Agreed. In regards to Yut Lung, he does mention that Ash ran that territory regardless of Dino's help. So while he may have been under the impression that Ash originally got aid due to favoritism, he also understands that Ash had to have been extremely intelligent, strong, and above all, persevering in order to have reached that point at all. I think we have slightly different interpretations of the material. Considering that Dino was grooming Ash to be his heir, I think it was required of Ash to be at least able to lead a gang of thugs. And Ash met those requirements because it was the only way to survive. If Ash continued as only a prostitute, he would have been drugged and killed like all the other young boys they had briefly mentioned. So when it comes down to it, I have always interpreted Ash as someone who was forced to do things he didn't want to in order to survive. But I also think it's perfectly valid to believe that Ash was pushed in a certain direction and because of his own inherent darkness, he commits unmoral acts. |
Lunallae said: I think we are in agreement and not particularly interpreting things differently. I just don't think it was a "requirement" but an expectation of survival as you say. Ash had an intelligence that even Dino could not ignore so he wanted to train him but in the end Ash "went along" as it were to survive and nothing more. He needed the power and others to fear him for his own safety which lead to morally grey and even immoral actions like you stated. Agreed. In regards to Yut Lung, he does mention that Ash ran that territory regardless of Dino's help. So while he may have been under the impression that Ash originally got aid due to favoritism, he also understands that Ash had to have been extremely intelligent, strong, and above all, persevering in order to have reached that point at all. I think we have slightly different interpretations of the material. Considering that Dino was grooming Ash to be his heir, I think it was required of Ash to be at least able to lead a gang of thugs. And Ash met those requirements because it was the only way to survive. If Ash continued as only a prostitute, he would have been drugged and killed like all the other young boys they had briefly mentioned. So when it comes down to it, I have always interpreted Ash as someone who was forced to do things he didn't want to in order to survive. But I also think it's perfectly valid to believe that Ash was pushed in a certain direction and because of his own inherent darkness, he commits unmoral acts. I want to add that Dino making Ash is heir may have more to do with the favoritism itself since Dino loves Ash in his own twisted way. I recently read Private Opinion again and Dino's motives for wanting Ash trained are questionable when you look at how horribly he was treating him. Meanwhile Ash just wanted strength to protect himself and make those who hurt him pay. |
MetaKiteOct 6, 2018 11:22 AM
| is worth watching? i think iput it on hold o.o |
The spider is watching |
| This episode or the series? Despite it's flaws I vote you watch the show. |
MetaKite said: This episode or the series? Despite it's flaws I vote you watch the show. lol, the show overall well nothing it is perfect so ya, hmm, guess i will try it ;o |
The spider is watching |
I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I still will have to say that I kind of disagree. In terms of Ash becoming a gang leader, I don't think he had a choice. That's why Ash responds to Arthur's question with "it's not my fault." In other aspects, like what Private Opinion focused on, it was entirely Ash's wish to obtain power to get payback, Oh, there's no doubt Dino actually did favor Ash and in a very twisted sense, he did love Ash. Dino does play favorites and because of that, it's kind of easy to see why Arthur is so frustrated with this entire situation. |
Lunallae said: If you mean he had to with no say in the matter to be useful to Dino in somewhat dignified way to not get murdered then I agree. I think there could have been other ways he could be useful without whoring himself or leading gangs like being a bodyguard or even lieutenant like Marvin but Ash wanted some freedom, albeit limited, so gang leader was next best thing. I just don't believe "gang leader" was Ash's only option aside from prostitution. Because I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I still will have to say that I kind of disagree. In terms of Ash becoming a gang leader, I don't think he had a choice. That's why Ash responds to Arthur's question with "it's not my fault." In other aspects, like what Private Opinion focused on, it was entirely Ash's wish to obtain power to get payback, Ash had other options available within Union Corse. Yet he chose the route that would give him power and a small army to command. Lunallae said: Which isn't Ash's fault. Arthur was inferior in every way to Ash regardless.Oh, there's no doubt Dino actually did favor Ash and in a very twisted sense, he did love Ash. Dino does play favorites and because of that, it's kind of easy to see why Arthur is so frustrated with this entire situation. |
Yes, I am saying that. But I also believe that Dino wanted Ash to be a gang leader because being one would hone his leadership skills. It was either that or continue being a prostitute. I don't think Dino simply wanted Ash to be useful, he had specific characteristics that he wanted Ash to possess so that he would be the perfect heir. Agreed. I think when Ash says "it's not my fault," he means the things he had to do (being a gang leader and taking over Arthur's territory) as well as Dino's favoritism. |
Lunallae said: Do you mind if I ask why you think this is what Dino wanted of Ash? If Dino was smart, he would have put Ash in position where he could better keep an eye on him. If Ash was say a financial bookkeeper for him, than Ash would have never come in contact with a dying Steven Thompson that set off the plot. I think Dino wanting him to be a gang leader full well knowing that Ash only sought freedom from him was a sloppy choice to make. If I had a rebellious teen that I wanted to keep under my wing, I'd keep him on a tight leash and not give him the freedom to roam around Manhattan. That's just me though. I still think Ash chose the route he did because he thought he could better protect himself by commanding others to the point he was thoroughly a hard ass with them to create a badass reputation for himself and get away from the whore stigma he still has. Instead of some other criminal activity so in that sense he had a choice.Yes, I am saying that. But I also believe that Dino wanted Ash to be a gang leader because being one would hone his leadership skills. It was either that or continue being a prostitute. I don't think Dino simply wanted Ash to be useful, he had specific characteristics that he wanted Ash to possess so that he would be the perfect heir. Lunallae said: Lunallae said: Thus Arthur got what he deserved for being a cowardly and envious snake.Agreed. I think when Ash says "it's not my fault," he means the things he had to do (being a gang leader and taking over Arthur's territory) as well as Dino's favoritism. |
MetaKiteOct 6, 2018 2:52 PM
Well, I think it's hard to find evidence for exactly what Dino wanted of Ash besides for being his heir. Thus, I have just always interpreted all of Dino's actions before the story in a way that lines up with that fact. However, I do have some thoughts on why Dino didn't keep Ash on a tight leash at the start of the series. I do agree that Ash did try to use what he got to his advantage and was thus able to smear away stigma and build his own reputation. No objections there. Arthur definitely got what came to him. |
LunallaeOct 6, 2018 3:29 PM
Lunallae said: Ok, I understand your POV. I concede that it's Dino's own fault for underestimating Ash by being cocky. Also, in Private Opinion, I think Ash was either 13 or 14 because the events of Angel Eyes happen afterwards and he is 14 in that one. I think Ash may have actually been 15 when he became a gang leader though. He still had a rather small build at age 14 but not in Arthur's flashback.Well, I think it's hard to find evidence for exactly what Dino wanted of Ash besides for being his heir. Thus, I have just always interpreted all of Dino's actions before the story in a way that lines up with that fact. However, I do have some thoughts on why Dino didn't keep Ash on a tight leash at the start of the series. I do agree that Ash did try to use what he got to his advantage and was thus able to smear away stigma and build his own reputation. No objections there. Arthur definitely got what came to him. |
| Why is everyone complaining about the animation? The subway fight was pretty darn good. |
Right, I forgot that Angel Eyes was set in a specific time frame. That would mean Ash became a gang leader at age 13-14 because it seems in Private Opinion, he was already operating a small gang. Unless, there a specific quote that mentions Ash took over Arthur's territory immediately when he became gang leader? The anime original flashback makes me believe it was a rather recent development. |
dc22 said: Why is everyone complaining about the animation? The subway fight was pretty darn good. Because people like to complain. It is what this site was created for so that people could voice their non-existent issues to make themselves feel good. |
Lunallae said: Not that I am aware of. That flashback threw me for a loop and it looks like something that would have taken place in the last year or so. Maybe Ash was 16? Keeping track of time in BF is difficult and hard to make out when the official guidebook timeline says everything ended in 1987 (not counting Garden of Holy Light). So I really don't know here. Right, I forgot that Angel Eyes was set in a specific time frame. That would mean Ash became a gang leader at age 13-14 because it seems in Private Opinion, he was already operating a small gang. Unless, there a specific quote that mentions Ash took over Arthur's territory immediately when he became gang leader? The anime original flashback makes me believe it was a rather recent development. Vindicater said: Yup and we will never stop complaining!dc22 said: Why is everyone complaining about the animation? The subway fight was pretty darn good. Because people like to complain. It is what this site was created for so that people could voice their non-existent issues to make themselves feel good. At this point, I can only suggest people to read the manga because the train fight scene was literally done better in the manga than the anime. I'm still trying to figure how that is possible. |
If that's the case, I'll just keep assuming that Ash took over Arthur's territory around a year or so ago. It works in canon so it's definitely an unobtrusive flashback. I hate to give MAPPA flak especially since this episode in particular looked atrocious during its pre-screening and in four days time, the animators had fixed about 70% of the animation problems. They really had to have worked overtime. However, I do agree that the manga for this episode is better than the anime. It's just that as a medium, anime needs to work harder than manga to make action scenes believable solely due to continuity. It's really unfortunate that MAPPA didn't add anything to make the events more realistic. I was hoping they would at least show Ash reloading his gun more than once (and even that one time was very hard to catch). The poorer animation does not help since Ash was rather static throughout the train scenes. So overall, it's just rather unrealistic that Ash didn't get seriously wounded. But in the end, I won't harp on it. Banana Fish isn't really supposed to be realistic. It's grounded, but not realistic. MAPPA could have taken the easy way out and just had way less goons for Ash to deal with, but they chose to remain faithful and regardless, I'm sure this episode will look better in the BD release. On a rather extraneous note, I am now very unsure how to feel about Tomohiro Kishi, the chief animation director for this episode. He/she was the chief animation director for episodes 7, 10, and now, 13. All three episodes have been, in my opinion, rather lacking and had wonky animation at times. Meanwhile, the episodes that Ayumi Yamada have been the chief animation director for (4, 6, 9, and 11) look amazing. Shinpei Kamada seems to be the last regular chief animation director and his/her episodes (3, 5, 8, and 12) are middling. I don't want to say Tomohiro Kishi is the weakest link here, especially since his/her episodes are by far the ones filled with the most action, but I think it should be noted that the quality of animation won't be consistent week to week for many reasons. |
dc22 said: Why is everyone complaining about the animation? The subway fight was pretty darn good. The same here, I don´t see any flaws in visual quality. If someone wants to see a bad animation he should check TG:re for example.. |
| “You are not alone, Ash. I am with you. My soul is with you.” - Eiji Okumura. |
| That subway shootout! HopbeeK said: ...the story of "the snows of kilimanjaro" reminds me of the scene in Cowboy Bebop, where Spike explains why he is going on a no-return fight with the story of "The cat that lived a millioin times". These scenes elevate anime to a whole new level. I shall turn to the original manga for more of these philosophy exploration. (Yes I'm fully aware Ash's scene should be crafted earlier than CB) ^^I was thinking of the same thing! This series is really making me want to pick up the manga. |
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| It was a really well developed episode, although in an ideal world it would have been nice if the episode was a tad longer since we had to wait two weeks for it. Sing's appearance in the episode was rather unexpected, and I can't help thinking he's just a really sweet teenager. Also, where did Ash's supply of unlimited bullets came from?? It could be argued that this episode does show the adaptation's age as others have mentioned (e.g Coney Island). However, if they really wanted to bring the anime completely up to date, they probably would have to alter so many more things due to NY city having developed a lot. The end result probably would have been a less faithful adaptation of the original manga, so lets just try to be kind and appreciate the massive effort MAPPA has put into this series so far. |
| I really enjoyed the episode and I'm glad that Arthur is finally dead but even though I haven't caught up with the manga, I felt like the animation quality was inconsistent and the pacing was too fast? I felt it was a little rushed. I am still reading the manga and I am still at the part where Ash goes to prison in the manga. However, still felt like everything was rushed somewhat. I am kind of hoping that Ash and the gang still have to face someone formidable, more than Golzine. Since Freddy Arthur is dead, I'm kind of hoping for some new antagonists. |
| 臭い- |
plutochan said: Also, where did Ash's supply of unlimited bullets came from?? AkiKitazawa said: 1: Just how did Ash never run out of bullets on the subway??? In the manga, Ash usually tapes ammo to his legs. The anime removed that completely but I mean it would still work if he had ammo in his pockets or he still does tape them to his legs (but eh... until MAPPA animates it, we'll never know). AkiKitazawa said: 2: If the policecars rushed by Eiji & co, how did they still manage to arrive a lot later to the scene??? The train was manually stopped before reaching the Coney Island station. Because there were several police officers that were on the tracks at the end, they had to go to the train station to get onto the tracks before they can make their way to Ash and Arthur. Meanwhile, Eiji, Kong, and Bones went to a different location, a random road close to where the train happened to stop. |
LunallaeOct 9, 2018 3:47 PM
AkiKitazawa said: Ah, already suspected it would be something they just cut out. Yeah, the anime does cut out quite a bit at times. However, in this case, it was a tiny panel in the manga and I actually didn't know what that panel was doing (though it was definitely apparent he reloaded the gun right afterwards) until I read further in the manga and saw Ash visibly taping some ammo to his leg. AkiKitazawa said: Hm, ok thanks. Even though I'm still not entirely convinced because of the cars on the ground. It sounds so convenient Eiji, Kong and Bones randomly took a different road and happened to cross the correct place. Maybe I should just read the manga as it would make more sense to me that way probably. The manga actually doesn't really add anything to explain this. Sometimes the manga is more detailed, sometimes the anime is, and sometimes they're the same. Sorry, I should have clarified this better. I presume the road where Eiji, Kong, and Bones ended up is just a local road close to the station. They stopped there because they saw the crowd and probably the train as well. Meanwhile, the police need to actually get to the station so that they can get on the tracks and get to the actual scene of the fight (which is more pressing than a crowd watching it). So the police that bypassed Eiji and the gang while they were driving went to the train station. Meanwhile, the police that arrested Sing, Cain, and Eiji at the end were a whole different lot that were dispatched to calm down any rioting. |
| Loved it, never would have seen a train drive by shooting coming, that was incredible, as was Sing's ambush in turn. Ash feeling obliged to leave behind his home and a special someone to fight a bitter foe to the end was gruelling, and an all too human commentary. Everything was outstanding, Banana Fish is definitely something else. |
Bibimbapski said: Well, you don't have to worry about that. Far worse adversaries and battles are yet to come for Ash. Which is why I am wondering how are they gonna fit everything in the remaining 10 episodes.I am kind of hoping that Ash and the gang still have to face someone formidable, more than Golzine. Since Freddy Arthur is dead, I'm kind of hoping for some new antagonists. |
| Is it possible that another season would be brought out to cover everything? Either way is good, the anime is amazing! |
| Can i finally say it? Can I? THIS *insert curses here* ARTHUR IS FINALLY DEAD. I'M HAPPY. But, uh... I don't know if it's because I already know manga or because of something else but this episode didn't feel intense. Like, at all. For me it was "ok, I know, there's a fight. Oh, ok. Oh! I love this scene! Ok, ok... YESSSS, HE'S DEAD.". And when I was reading manga it felt extremely intense. Anyway, it's just beginning of a pretty important story arc. And I can't wait to see more of it. |
| Ugh, you really like to raise your voice in the worst moment possible, don't you, Eiji? I have to say that you have such a terrible timing, for sure. Wow, I know Arthur was a cheater and a rat but I wasn't expecting him to be this coward. But well, I'm glad he's dead and now, I'm looking forward to the next arc since he's no longer around. P.S.: Ash is such a god bullets can't even touch him. Like... how? you can't shoot at someone who is running in a straight line inside of a train?... |
| We find out why Arthur hates Ash so much. It’s its own fault. He should’ve just accepted his defeat and he wouldn’t have gotten his fingers cut off. Once again Arthur took the cowards path and brought his men to help him kill Ash, even though it was supposed to be a one on one fight. It didn’t really help Arthur though because Ash killed every one of his men. Eiji was supposed to go back to Japan but he couldn’t bare the thought of Ash dying so he ran after him. It’s not like I thought he’d go back anyways lol. Ash finally kills Arthur, thank goodness, but was taken into custody right after. I’m guessing he’s gonna end up in the hospital cause his wounds were pretty bad. |
| Nice episode. And, of course the police comes in at the very last minute lol. Tbh, I feel like during that underground sequence, Arthur's lackeys really could have shot him easily if Ash is shooting somewhere else... |
 |
| Another devastating ending, at least Arthur is down, and only the big boss is left now, Papa Dino better be investing on his grave at this point, but then again, we never know if Ash is going to make it out alive himself, this show has made it very clear that death is inevitable, I'm saying that if it's not now, then it's next time. Eiji should have really gone back to Japan, had he not been there, things would have probably gone a bit smoother, and now, he's even been held captive by the cops, better kiss his future goodbye. Probably we're going to have another prison arc, but without Max it's not going to be as good I think. |
| I wonder why Arthur hate Ash so much? But I'm glad he's done for. Part of me just wants Eiji to go back to Japan especially on the last few minutes of this episode. I wonder if he's not on the scene maybe there will be a chance that they could escape from the cops? But seeing Ash having nightmares is really sad. |
  ★━━─ 𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘐 𝘣𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘮𝘺 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘵? 𝘞𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘥𝘢𝘺? |
| If I want the big bad evil to go down, Eiji needs to lay low somewhere and let Ash fulfill his duty to the bitter end. If I want Ash's humanity to survive, Eiji needs to be there in every step he takes. I don't know what I want. |
| It's probably better Arthur died. He would have been wiped out by Dino is a worse way if he lived without getting Ash/failing his last chance. He was a pretty intense character, though. |
 |
| Arthur such a fucking coward! |
| I'm Bruneian and I like anime. And Manchester United. And fat cats. |
| Arthur finally down, not gonna miss him! I just hope guys won't end up in prison, AGAIN ;_; |
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| Maybe the worst episode of Banana Fish in terms of realism. Ash killing like 10 to 20 people, most of them in a train, is rather absurd, and then the silly knife fight at the end to kill Arthur was the opposite of epic. This is also the episode where Banana Fish jumped the shark imo. |
| Ego = 1 / Knowledge | "More the Knowledge Lesser the Ego, Lesser the Knowledge More the Ego." Albert Einstein My ratings:  |
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