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Aug 14, 2022 3:04 PM
#51
borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. |
Aug 14, 2022 3:39 PM
#52
Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing. It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology. |
Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
Aug 14, 2022 3:41 PM
#53
borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing. It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology. Hum, ok? Being vague won't lead you to anywhere you know? |
Aug 14, 2022 3:53 PM
#54
Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing. It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology. Hum, ok? Being vague won't lead you to anywhere you know? Not being able to understand a statement doesn't mean it's vague. |
Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
Aug 14, 2022 3:55 PM
#55
borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing. It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology. Hum, ok? Being vague won't lead you to anywhere you know? Not being able to understand a statement doesn't mean it's vague. I understood what you said, but that didn't answer my question which was "can you explain it to me?" and you didn't actually explain it. You said "Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing." but you didn't tell what I am missing. Then you said "It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology." when 1) we aren't talking of physiology 2) you don't know my grasp of physiology Nothing of what you said is an actual explanation as I asked, so your answer pretty much didn't answer anything I said originally. |
Aug 14, 2022 4:55 PM
#56
Coming into the episode, I have already guessed the title "It's okay, it's fine" is a reference to Kisara's thoughts on being manipulated by Shu. Sadly, I was proven right. The girl loves him so much that she doesn't mind being made used of. Kisara really does have a severe case of 'Renai Nou'. Kisara mentions that she still has two more transformation, but we have only seen one so far. Guess Maruto sensei is saving the last transformation for the big play. What can be worse than having one yandere? Having two super powered yandere battle. Sharon wants to kill Kisara because she knows that Kisara only kills demons not because of her own ideology but out of love for Shu. Will Kisara revert back into a D-Hazard once Shu is gone? I don't think so, but apparently the nun does. I also snickered when Sharon called Kisara a 'nutcase'. As if she is any better. Shu using neurotoxin as lube to incapacitate Sharon during their sex has to be the funniest thing ever. This is the kind of romcom that will sit above all the rest for me. It will be interesting to see what the coming demon mentioned by Sharon in the ending scene will be. My guess is that it will be Kana. |
Aug 15, 2022 1:47 AM
#58
Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing. It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology. Hum, ok? Being vague won't lead you to anywhere you know? Not being able to understand a statement doesn't mean it's vague. I understood what you said, but that didn't answer my question which was "can you explain it to me?" and you didn't actually explain it. You said "Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing." but you didn't tell what I am missing. Then you said "It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology." when 1) we aren't talking of physiology 2) you don't know my grasp of physiology Nothing of what you said is an actual explanation as I asked, so your answer pretty much didn't answer anything I said originally. You're missing the point. The point being that Shuu is attractive to these women. Why would I know what makes him attractive? But what I can say from the evidence we see around us in real life is freeloading does not universally turn women off And that's the point you were trying to make, which shows you completely missed the point. As to physiology, not understanding the impact of the relative surface areas of the mucous membranes of the male and female sex organs is a pretty big hint that you aren't strong in that area. Not to mention that Shuu may also have been wearing a condom. If you dislike the show, why not just come out and say that rather than trying to lecture the author!! |
Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
Aug 15, 2022 3:24 AM
#59
Byniavo said: Good that Sharon bitch was dealt with quickly. Can't wait for the big Demon Hazard fight that will inevitably destroy the city, whether by the church or by Kisara lol lol true, as sharon said the abbey will do everything even it means destroying the city I was like 'ok fine do it'. Bayron often was shown already actually being a shithole instead of some paradise, on top of it the government is corrupted and making deals with demons only for reason we have yet to see. It's probably something like 'you humans make more orgonium tech and we give you demon powers you can use however you like'. Tho the ultimate goal could be that the mysterious spear or rather the true d hazard is a weapon of mass destruction and the bayron government gets tricked into awakening it. |
Aug 15, 2022 8:32 AM
#60
what an amazing amazing anime! I love it. |
Aug 15, 2022 9:12 AM
#61
borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing. It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology. Hum, ok? Being vague won't lead you to anywhere you know? Not being able to understand a statement doesn't mean it's vague. I understood what you said, but that didn't answer my question which was "can you explain it to me?" and you didn't actually explain it. You said "Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing." but you didn't tell what I am missing. Then you said "It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology." when 1) we aren't talking of physiology 2) you don't know my grasp of physiology Nothing of what you said is an actual explanation as I asked, so your answer pretty much didn't answer anything I said originally. You're missing the point. The point being that Shuu is attractive to these women. Why would I know what makes him attractive? But what I can say from the evidence we see around us in real life is freeloading does not universally turn women off And that's the point you were trying to make, which shows you completely missed the point. As to physiology, not understanding the impact of the relative surface areas of the mucous membranes of the male and female sex organs is a pretty big hint that you aren't strong in that area. Not to mention that Shuu may also have been wearing a condom. If you dislike the show, why not just come out and say that rather than trying to lecture the author!! I see, I guess I might be missing the point and just not understand what they see in Shu since I don't see any appeal to him. Oh, I think you misunderstood me in that part, I know about the mucuous membranes lol I understand how that works, that wasn't the important part, I was just mentioning it, the important part was how he didn't get poisoned too... for which wearing a condom makes sense, I didn't think about it since in anime they basically never wear condoms. I'm not saying I don't like the show, I'm just saying things that don't make sense to me. |
Aug 15, 2022 12:37 PM
#62
Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: borderliner said: Ionliosite2 said: God, someone needs to explain to the writter of this series that the MC having sex does not make him a better character or a "chad", even a regular romcom MC is better than him, I really really don't get why girls like him at all when he basically lives by them with them doing stuff for him. Besides this the way he poisoned Sharon makes no sense, how he didn't get poisoned too? If apparently he put it on her due to mucuous membranes that absorbs the poison? Is he immune to poisons or something? Anyways, let's see where what Sharon says goes with the calamity that will come. PD: Nice Sharon fanservice. In a show about demons and weird shit, the bit you don't understand is how girls can get attracted to "apparently" freeloading guys !? Yeah, if you can explain that part to me would be cool. Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing. It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology. Hum, ok? Being vague won't lead you to anywhere you know? Not being able to understand a statement doesn't mean it's vague. I understood what you said, but that didn't answer my question which was "can you explain it to me?" and you didn't actually explain it. You said "Possibly because they're looking for what you're missing." but you didn't tell what I am missing. Then you said "It also seems you have a poor grasp of physiology." when 1) we aren't talking of physiology 2) you don't know my grasp of physiology Nothing of what you said is an actual explanation as I asked, so your answer pretty much didn't answer anything I said originally. You're missing the point. The point being that Shuu is attractive to these women. Why would I know what makes him attractive? But what I can say from the evidence we see around us in real life is freeloading does not universally turn women off And that's the point you were trying to make, which shows you completely missed the point. As to physiology, not understanding the impact of the relative surface areas of the mucous membranes of the male and female sex organs is a pretty big hint that you aren't strong in that area. Not to mention that Shuu may also have been wearing a condom. If you dislike the show, why not just come out and say that rather than trying to lecture the author!! I see, I guess I might be missing the point and just not understand what they see in Shu since I don't see any appeal to him. Oh, I think you misunderstood me in that part, I know about the mucuous membranes lol I understand how that works, that wasn't the important part, I was just mentioning it, the important part was how he didn't get poisoned too... for which wearing a condom makes sense, I didn't think about it since in anime they basically never wear condoms. I'm not saying I don't like the show, I'm just saying things that don't make sense to me. I don't think we're supposed to like Shuu are we, I think the show is going out of its way to make the girls seem like the victims. I can only imagine what kind of anime you watch to be able to say that about condom wearing ;-) Well I think a condom is the most likely, but it's also clear that Shuu doesn't mind suffering to get what he wants, so if he thought being slightly poisoned would guarantee taking Sharon out he'd go for it wouldn't he. I'm prepared tolerate a certain amount of WTF so long as a show doesn't just do one ass pull after another. And I mainly like to watch shows where things are a bit messy and don't all tie up neatly at the end. I think this one is a glorious mess of emotions and bodily fluids... |
borderlinerAug 15, 2022 12:41 PM
Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
Aug 15, 2022 1:34 PM
#63
So he slept with Sharon also !? And now that she is here I guess his harem is complete ?? |
Aug 15, 2022 5:14 PM
#64
Kisara is the best girl and protects everyone. Also the Kiss, how intense can it be protect |
Aug 16, 2022 2:36 AM
#65
Sharon is annoying af, glad she got some nice hits |
My Candies 2024 My Old Candies: |
Aug 18, 2022 4:06 PM
#66
Actually love how bad ass the nun is. Her “take no prisoners” attitude is refreshing. Surprisingly, even though the drama between the characters is cliche and generic it still works within the confines of the story really well with Shuu’s memory loss for being with Kisara. I just hope things don’t get really predictable in the later episodes when there are big reveals about what happened to Shuu’s parents, like his sister is a demon or she is possessed by one. These reveals are fine but I hope it’s not so boring like demon just wanted to get really powerful, I guess? Anyways this series has been a solid 7.5 so far. |
Aug 19, 2022 8:11 AM
#68
thunderkitten667 said: Actually love how bad ass the nun is. Her “take no prisoners” attitude is refreshing. Surprisingly, even though the drama between the characters is cliche and generic it still works within the confines of the story really well with Shuu’s memory loss for being with Kisara. I just hope things don’t get really predictable in the later episodes when there are big reveals about what happened to Shuu’s parents, like his sister is a demon or she is possessed by one. These reveals are fine but I hope it’s not so boring like demon just wanted to get really powerful, I guess? Anyways this series has been a solid 7.5 so far. I think it's getting pretty obvious at this point that his sister will be the big enemy of the later episodes and that it will hit shu very hard. His nightmare from last ep also seems to hint that sister and kisara may clash and he has to decide which one he saves, I still like the mystery of the plot but am glad if next episode will pull some first big reveals which seems to be case looking at the episode's title. Like I really wanna know already what's behind the city's higher ups letting shu and kisara hunt demonically possessed on purpose all those years, considering how exactly this seems to affect the spear it would be at least a nice twist how it was shu in the end being responsible for making his sister into an exceptional powerful demon hazard. |
Aug 20, 2022 2:41 AM
#69
TheIsOtaku said: thunderkitten667 said: Actually love how bad ass the nun is. Her “take no prisoners” attitude is refreshing. Surprisingly, even though the drama between the characters is cliche and generic it still works within the confines of the story really well with Shuu’s memory loss for being with Kisara. I just hope things don’t get really predictable in the later episodes when there are big reveals about what happened to Shuu’s parents, like his sister is a demon or she is possessed by one. These reveals are fine but I hope it’s not so boring like demon just wanted to get really powerful, I guess? Anyways this series has been a solid 7.5 so far. I think it's getting pretty obvious at this point that his sister will be the big enemy of the later episodes and that it will hit shu very hard. His nightmare from last ep also seems to hint that sister and kisara may clash and he has to decide which one he saves, I still like the mystery of the plot but am glad if next episode will pull some first big reveals which seems to be case looking at the episode's title. Like I really wanna know already what's behind the city's higher ups letting shu and kisara hunt demonically possessed on purpose all those years, considering how exactly this seems to affect the spear it would be at least a nice twist how it was shu in the end being responsible for making his sister into an exceptional powerful demon hazard. I am curious about the shadow government allowing Shuu to hunt with a demon as well. Kisara is always considered to be one of the higher level demons. Next episode will probably introduce an even more powerful demon. My theory is Shuu’s sister is a vessel of some sort, seeing as Shuu has incredible power as well that isn’t really explained other than his family history. Then maybe there is a good ending and she can give him all the memories of his deep past, so that he at least won’t have to forget his family and live with his sister peacefully. Bad ending might be she is a demon and he has to kill her for whatever reason. Anyways, I’ve been enjoying this series a lot. |
Aug 20, 2022 11:13 AM
#70
Watching bitches going against each other.. trust me not a sight anyone wants to see. Also there's this chad wannabe too, whom I seriously despise the most in this series. |
Aug 21, 2022 10:22 PM
#71
Stark700 said: Well, at least they know a little bit more about Sharon and what she's capcable of. Being one of the top exorcists in this series makes her a noticable character A "little bit" about Sharon? We still don't know why she is called "chaste", this episode pretty much showed us that the "chaste" part is simply a joke. I am surprised that the local prison let Sharon have her nun outfit rather than a prisoner outfit or straight-jacket. On the side note. Using The Duchess with an Empty Soul as an example, while I despise a "playboy" character manipulating women for his own personal goals, I can make an exception on the main character since Shuu's actions aren't done from corrupt intentions. If the author makes a doujinshi, I like to see how Shu poisoned Sharon. |
Aug 22, 2022 8:37 AM
#72
It's a relief if you have 3 girls who want to be the ones you love. Nice Episode |
“Life is never boring, but some people choose to be bored.” — Wayne Dyer |
Aug 29, 2022 2:02 AM
#73
The backstory part with Sharon is still a bit mysterious but that was nice to see Kisara back to the action during that exciting fight against her, and their relationship with MC is somewhat fixed but there's still the race between the girls for who will charm him xD |
Aug 29, 2022 2:06 AM
#74
Ashhk said: The backstory part with Sharon is still a bit mysterious but that was nice to see Kisara back to the action during that exciting fight against her, and their relationship with MC is somewhat fixed but there's still the race between the girls for who will charm him xD don't give me hate but I don't like this kind of show....not like that, I mean I kinda like girls fighting over a guy....but this anime has too much this concept in it ....i mean literally the red haired girl (I forgot name 😅) is continuously erasing memories of the other girl from mc, that part .... and the mc is good but not that much good for figh over.... so I dropped the anime after 5 episodes.... |
Anime List Manga List Blog Posts |
Aug 29, 2022 2:26 AM
#75
NeelSenpai said: The plot isn't much original but it's mainly interesting for the adult vibes Ashhk said: The backstory part with Sharon is still a bit mysterious but that was nice to see Kisara back to the action during that exciting fight against her, and their relationship with MC is somewhat fixed but there's still the race between the girls for who will charm him xD don't give me hate but I don't like this kind of show....not like that, I mean I kinda like girls fighting over a guy....but this anime has too much this concept in it ....i mean literally the red haired girl (I forgot name 😅) is continuously erasing memories of the other girl from mc, that part .... and the mc is good but not that much good for figh over.... so I dropped the anime after 5 episodes.... |
Aug 29, 2022 2:29 AM
#76
Ashhk said: yeah I know..... I really love adult kind of content like horimiya but I don't know why for some reason I can't like this anime on that prospective too....NeelSenpai said: The plot isn't much original but it's mainly interesting for the adult vibes Ashhk said: The backstory part with Sharon is still a bit mysterious but that was nice to see Kisara back to the action during that exciting fight against her, and their relationship with MC is somewhat fixed but there's still the race between the girls for who will charm him xD don't give me hate but I don't like this kind of show....not like that, I mean I kinda like girls fighting over a guy....but this anime has too much this concept in it ....i mean literally the red haired girl (I forgot name 😅) is continuously erasing memories of the other girl from mc, that part .... and the mc is good but not that much good for figh over.... so I dropped the anime after 5 episodes.... |
Anime List Manga List Blog Posts |
Aug 30, 2022 10:07 AM
#77
I dislike tentacles... but the ep was good I wonder how he managed to get in bed with a nun ;s Japanese got weird disrespect for nuns... |
(づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ ちゅっ ちゅっ キス (´。✪ω✪。`) I hate it when anime/manga that I enjoyed ends, especially when there could be much longer plot and when I love main heroine :P I wish I had magic glasses that let me see real world in anime colors ;) |
Sep 13, 2022 12:26 PM
#78
Sharon made me false with this anime. |
NathakithSep 13, 2022 12:58 PM
Sep 13, 2022 2:59 PM
#79
Sep 25, 2022 7:29 AM
#81
Rezete_01 said: I feel Shuu is slowly getting in love for Kisara because of she stealing his memories The fights scenes in this episodes didn't have a lot of movement, but it was pretty good Sharon is very beautiful I just started working through this one, but I've thought from the beginning, that Kisra might actually be a demonified transition of his sister. (but I'm hoping that's just confusion at the origin story in my head, because that seems kind of a lame thing) Why kidnap humans in the first place? The only thing I'm not certain of, is him looking for his sister out of familial love. or something more carnal. |
Be thankful for those you have near who are dear For time is not always kind to those who would be on your mind Seize the day, some exclaim, but that which is past, no more shall have its day. |
Oct 14, 2022 6:29 AM
#82
I can't get enough of their kissing scenes for some reason... lol I finally get to see Sharon's background story, she's a whore... Then Shu is a manwhore huh... but has a harem, more or less... |
CrazyButNot4UOct 14, 2022 6:42 AM
It's not that I dislike this genre but... to add unnecessary fan services to/in/for heroines and ultimately destroys her character and personality; their purity tarnished because of it, is the only thing I hope to not happen to them. For that sole purity is my fan service. |
Oct 14, 2022 7:01 AM
#83
Nov 10, 2022 2:56 AM
#84
About the Flashback did he poison hes Dick? lol i have heard of poisoned lips (and seen on movies and series) but this takes the cake lol |
Sugram22Nov 10, 2022 3:14 AM
Nov 27, 2022 5:13 AM
#85
Well, that was kind of fucked. Literally. Also Screaming goat coffee XD |
Cucumber ice cream is the best! |
Nov 27, 2022 5:17 AM
#86
SmilingBeginner said: Oh my...I was burst out laughing the moment I see how Shuu poisoned Sharon, is that even remotely possible? Then again this anime has a sci-fi setting which tentacle power suits are a thing lol Yes, that would work, in fact it would be extremely effective. Doctors have found that out the hard way, when normally safe doses of anesthesia killed patients... |
JaniSIrNov 27, 2022 5:21 AM
Cucumber ice cream is the best! |
Apr 30, 2023 3:10 AM
#87
Shu and Sharon's past was quite extreme lol... I'm not even shocked if she did her duty with some personal grudge lmao. |
Oct 6, 2023 10:55 AM
#88
I dropped after this episode. NGL I'm just bored of the show. Some people might enjoy it and I defo would say at least to give it a try since tastes are different. I like the art though, very bright and vibrant with nice animation |
Nov 9, 2023 5:46 PM
#89
Nun shouldn't have been spared. She's behaviourally identical to demons, except she has full control of all her mental faculties when she goes around attacking people. Besides that, she can easily escape custody, since no one can fight her except Kisara, and has already admitted at the end of the episode that she plans to kill everyone in the city with sadistic glee. If the only information she has besides that is vague and useless, then why not just dispose of her there and then? Come to think of it, the lizard demon that phased through walls was also taken into custody. Since when did arresting superpowered people nullify the threats they pose when they can dodge bullets, cause explosions and phase through walls? |
Jul 6, 5:05 PM
#90
When is this show gonna start to earn even it's mediocre rating? Like, the part where he put poison on his peepee is probably the one kinda funny thing that's even happened so far. Shit is dryer than the Sahara otherwise. IDK why I started to watch this... The only relatively interesting potential plot hook was that conscious demon they took out in ep 2, and of course that went nowhere... |
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