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surfboard_ said: Theres no way you can read that phrase and not detect misogyny even if unintended or took out of context. The previous principal brought to Yuriika the very idea of the "box". More than that, she got his habit of boxing things to remain its purity (unsulied if we go by the subs). If he wasn't that important then why its suggested that she put his corpse on the box? (for me its more like a drawer but whatever) In the end, without the previous principal, Yuriika wouldn't know the feeling of love as well the fear of losing it, and met both again in a more intense case with Kureha's mom. As for the lack of masculine figures in the human side, it might be because we are seeing most things through Kureha's perspective and environment. But behind of it all, we're just under Ikuhara's perception of it, and you know about his huge fascination towards the female being. An no, what you said wasn't clearly in the "vein of trying to figure out..." as you quickly started to wonder why only the manly figures that appear are the ones really important to each character. Regarding "no men shown as men, if the man in this episode is in drag and/or is trans", we're in 2015, the "man" figure is literally in question and its anything but absolute right now. Not even the Court are exactly what you can call a "Man", following this perspective of masculinity I think you misunderstood what I meant (or you really didn't read my post very carefully), and you're sort of mincing your own words, which makes it more difficult for me to understand what you're saying. I did NOT mean "only the manly figures that appear are the ones really important to each character", which is what you seem to think I meant. In fact, I didn't even use the word "manly". What I DID mean is "the characters who seem to clearly be men (the Judgmen; Lulu's father and brother, who are clearly referred to as king and prince, respectively; the dad bear in ep. 7, who clearly had a man's voice; the man in this episode, who is referred to with the word "kare", which means "he/him"--it's not a subtitle thing, that's the actual word used in the Japanese spoken dialogue, though as you mentioned he could be trans and/or in drag) are those specific characters for a reason". Their existence in the show seems to suggest that there are men on both sides of the wall. So, then why are they the only ones shown, and why is the man who finds Yuriika after she's abandoned dressed like a woman? This is a show about women's issues, so it's reasonable to assume that how things are shown is indicative of that. The reality of the world is that it has been dominated by patriarchal views for centuries. Because of that, even in this show's world that's oriented so strongly towards womens' perceptions, the patriarchal views still shape and influence the womens' views, which influences what sticks out in their minds. They're focused on womens' issues, so they don't really notice men, but the men they do notice, they notice for a reason. That reason is linked to their patriarchy-influenced views. Thus, the men who are shown as men are those men who are important to the characters for reasons related to both their own wants and needs and because of how they're related to patriarchal values. Men who aren't important to the characters are either shown as women (the man who finds Yuriika who is dressed like a woman but indisputably referred to as a man) or are not shown at all. Again, this is because of their patriarchy-influenced views. This is a concept that has been used throughout the show and can even be seen in the visual design, such as a room with a blue ceiling (blue is a stereotypical color for boys) over an otherwise almost entirely pink room (pink is a stereotypical color for girls). That visual screams "even in a world of women, the values of men still hold the power". Also, following this train of thought, the reason the man who found Yuriika is depicted as a woman despite being referred to by Yuriika herself as a man is because he's not (as) important to her at the point she's telling her backstory. She's telling it in past tense, from the current point in time. Looking back, he's not as important to her now as he was then. What I'm describing is all my train of thought in attempting to figure out what things in the show mean. I could very well be wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if I was wrong. Either way, I'm talking about the show and my thoughts on what some of the things in it might mean. I don't understand how that's automatically indicative of my own views (answer: it's not). I'm basing all of my thoughts on what I perceive in the show, on what I notice that seems similar to Utena (his only other show I've seen), and on what I know about Ikuhara from seeing commentary by and interviews of him and of reading what other people (who are far better at this sort of thing than I am and who are much more familiar with Ikuhara and his works than I am) know about him (such as that he likes to repeat himself and re-use symbols and ideas and themes, which is why I even think of similarities to Utena in the first place). The ideas I've thought of are misogynistic, but that's because that's what the show seems to be saying. It's presenting itself sincerely as such because that's the worldview it's trying to show you: the oppressive world these girls are living in. It's one of the things that Ikuhara likes to do. He presents a certain worldview throughout most of the show, depicting it genuinely and straightforwardly, and then ultimately shows it to be wrong and oppressive. It fits in perfectly with what I've heard of Ikuhara being heavily influenced by the novel Demian. A key idea in Utena was taken pretty much verbatim from the novel: "If it cannot break its egg's shell, a chick will die without being born. We are the chick. The world is our egg. If we don't crack the world's shell, we will die without being born. Smash the world's shell!" What this means is that when we're inside a system--any system--all we know is that system. If we get out of the system (breaking the egg's shell) we're then able to see the system from the outside, gaining a full picture of what the system really is. Only then can we take action in a way that effectively changes things. The only thing we've been exposed to so far in Yurikuma is the inside of the shell, which is the society that oppresses the female characters, which is why the material it's providing us with to piece together is misogynistic. Again, they're not my views on women, and I'm 120% positive that the show isn't misogynistic. But that's what the show is giving me to work with for the reasons I just stated. I fully expect there to be a huge change before the show's over. So, yes, you completely misunderstood what I said and what I meant. Hopefully now you know what I mean, since I've laid it out incredibly clearly. |
SejinFeb 23, 2015 10:48 PM
| Goddamit, Yuriika ruining things for everybody. It was obvious for a while now that she was a bear and the one that killed Reia. Glad we can finally move past that. I don't know why anybody would be convinced by hear when she sounds so desperate. Sound muted by thunder leading up to a cliffhanger. Guess we'll find out next week. Zetsubo667 said: So it turns out Yuriika was a bear after all, as well as the one who killed Kaoru. I'm a little disappointed as I thought it would of been too obvious if she was one, considering everyone so far with Yuri in their name has been one. Its not a bad twist but I was expecting a bit more. It seems I was correct in my prediction that Yuriika was behind Reia's death as she was jealous of Reia going with a man and giving birth to Eureka. With Reia dead she's now taking her anger out on Eureka. Basically Yuriika is putting the blame of Reia's death on Ginko now because she has the pendant and has also told Eureka that both Lulu and Ginko are bears. Eureka was obviously hesitant at first but Lulu then tells her that Ginko let Mitsuko kill Sumika and the episode ends with Eureka pointing the gun at Ginko. So it ends on quite a cliff-hanger but with Yuriika being revealed so soon is she really going to be the final opponent with 4 more episodes still to go? Umm, why do you keep calling Kureha Eureka? It's not like there's a different way to translate or pronounce her name. It's only pronounced Kureha. Calling her Eureka is completely wrong. |
Sejin said: You really can make something clear if you try. I reread your previous post plenty of times and my critic is very coherent with the content, not that you're at fault but the way the text was displayed made it easy to conclude that. Its sad that your reply mostly clarified what you actually mean but didn't left a thread to advance, and still I noticed few misunderstandings from me and you, but I won't decompose everything because its not needed or useful, I believe I already understood what you wanted to say. And sorry for the minced stuff, I thought everything was going to be displayed smoothly (I guess this plus my language limitations might have made it a pain for you to read). I think you overlooked it but the previous principal was someone very important to Yuriika and doesn't "look like a man" (for me, anime drawings isn't something capable enough to determine someone's sex with accuracy in all cases). The court staff could be female if they featured voice actress and remained the original design. Nobody would question it but call it "boyish". What I want to say with this is that you're overthinking on this, and thats a downside I see on Ikuhara: everybody loses their time to overanalyze something for a loose conclusion. I seriously wonder if anyone is learning with this or absorbing all the content. It looks a lot more like a puzzle game than a study/research. |
surfboard_Feb 24, 2015 12:22 AM
| Why didn't Kureha blame Yuriika for not telling her the "truth" and let those bears enter the school...? ...my guess is that Ginko just face the situation that Yuriika faced before, but she has different choice, Also, if bear can be turned into human like Yuriika, can human being turned into bear? |
| Goddamn this episode. It got more and more exciting only to end with thunder covering what they're saying. So Lulu kinda fucked everything up. She should have waited five more minutes to let them talk it out more clearly. Although Kureha is pretty stupid and easily my least favorite character. I get she's confused, and a lot has happened in a short time, but why would anyone listen to someone sounding so desperate and angry when she hesitates to kill her best friend? She's letting Yuriika control her actions and thoughts and she doesn't take a single second to go over it and question: why does Yuriika want me to kill her so badly? Honestly, I'm thinking there isn't any sort of symbolism regarding homosexuality anymore; it's really just a story about a girl and her best friend, who happens to be a bear. It's gotten very interesting, and I'm angry that I have to wait another week lol. Though the ED is still badass. The current picture is too cute; I just noticed Ginko is kinda sunk into the bathtub, like she's embarrassed. She's so cute. |
| Fantastic episode as always. I just finished Utena and it taught me a valuable lesson about not jumping to conclusions with what everything means in an Ikuhara series so I don't want to say anything because it'll just make me look like an idiot if I get it wrong. Although even when I do interpret things horribly wrong initially, I always love when the answers are spilled because it's never a dumb answer with Ikuhara. Basically, when you're presented with a complex situation in one of his shows the answer will never be some stupid shit like 'it was brains in jars all along!'. CookingPriest said: Isn't symbolism the coolest?Is it just me or the fish gutting in this episode was shaped as vagina?  |
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| So apparantly next week we wont see Episode 9. It will be Episode 8.5 |
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| Started off not liking this show but now that I've come to understand it, it's grown on me :) Eh? So the plot thickens! Called the principal being a bear!! Good job guys I hope Ginko doesnt die >.> If it's only episode 8.5 - we have to wait 2 weeks before the next ep?! No! |
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| Interesting episode. Though, I thought the whole episode long that Yuriika is not only a friend to Reia... and they are in love with each other? Reia was blushing all the time when she was with Yuriika, just like Yuriika. And the man who took Yuriika when she was a baby kinda looks like Kaoru... I hope there is a tie... n_n |
DejWo said: CookingPriest said: So apparantly next week we wont see Episode 9. It will be Episode 8.5 Something in-between or recap,like Shingeki no Bahamut? Recap with cast answering questions, etc from what I gather, with a preview to Ep9 and a special ending that relates to EP8 ending. Pabilsag said: Though, I thought the whole episode long that Yuriika is not only a friend to Reia... and they are in love with each other? Reia was blushing all the time when she was with Yuriika, just like Yuriika. Yeah, they were clearly in love. The difference was perception of love Reia's was the normal selfless idea of love, while Yuriika was taught from chidhood to restrict and safeguard and restrict("box up") the objects of her affection. So when Reia turned invisible, Yuriika's answer was to eat her hoping to "preserve" her inside her for herself. |
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CookingPriest said: So apparantly next week we wont see Episode 9. It will be Episode 8.5 I think i'll kill someone. |
CookingPriest said: Yeah, they were clearly in love. The difference was perception of love Reia's was the normal selfless idea of love, while Yuriika was taught from chidhood to restrict and safeguard and restrict("box up") the objects of her affection. So when Reia turned invisible, Yuriika's answer was to eat her hoping to "preserve" her inside her for herself. Following most of your guessings, I wouldn't be surprised if Reia was some kind of Virgin Mary and Kureha is literally a children of Kumalia. Its not something impossible to consider since there isn't a single mention to Kureha's father (have she ever wondered if he is alive or what probably happened to him?). I think its rather incorrect to imply Reia went invisible because theres not much development of her life. For example, we don't know if she even married or fell in love with a male person, we just think it happened because Kureha was born, but then, WHAT IF she is a result of a supernatural entity? Even though I'm supposing all of this, I don't think its even relevant, specially because theres close to zero development on this part at all. |
| CLIFFHANGER NOOOO |
| We have Two haters for this anime xD |
Zetsubo667 said: lalomartins said: Can't believe we got something right :-D the word “predictable” is one of the last that come to mind in relation to this anime. Then again, maybe it was a double bluff? Make it too obvious so it's a surprise when it turns out to be exactly what it seems? Its very possible it was a double bluff, I was still expecting something else but its happened now. Tokoya said: However, I did not expect to see that Ginko was the one that killed Sumika. I thought that the other bear from like episode 2 or 3 admitted to eating her? It was never said that Ginko killed Sumika. What Lulu revealed was muted. Based on the flashback of Epsiode 6 its most likely that Ginko's sin as well as what Lulu told Eureka here, is that Ginko could of prevented Mitsuko killing Sumika but didn't, because she probably wanted Sumika dead as well. in one of the flashbacks, you see ginko sitting there watching sumika be eaten, so yeah, she probably couldve stopped her, but then she couldnt of gotten close to kureha if sumika was still around so it worked out for her to let her be killed by the class rep (?) |
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| AAAAAAANNNDD we are back to weird again. I was waiting for some revelation the whole episode and when it finally arrives they don't fuckin tell us >.> And the letter Lulu read was fake anyway, wasn't it? I'd be really surprised if it wasn't just to give someone the wrong idea(which it ultimately did to Lulu). I mean what could Lulu have said to make Kureha this angry? There aren't many possibilities with how much we heard(like two or three maybe). One basically would turn out to be a lie(thus proving my guess) because we know it was someone else who killed Sumika. The other possibilities... Well if Kureha kills Ginko for those she kinda deserves to die alone/being eaten by the principal. Man that cliffhanger was so unnecessary D: I don't want to wait another week :( |
Nanashi- said: AAAAAAANNNDD we are back to weird again. I was waiting for some revelation the whole episode and when it finally arrives they don't fuckin tell us >.> And the letter Lulu read was fake anyway, wasn't it? I'd be really surprised if it wasn't just to give someone the wrong idea(which it ultimately did to Lulu). I mean what could Lulu have said to make Kureha this angry? There aren't many possibilities with how much we heard(like two or three maybe). One basically would turn out to be a lie(thus proving my guess) because we know it was someone else who killed Sumika. The other possibilities... Well if Kureha kills Ginko for those she kinda deserves to die alone/being eaten by the principal. Man that cliffhanger was so unnecessary D: I don't want to wait another week :( Wrong, 2 weeks. The next week there is the recap episode |
| Good episode, some things were explained. Wonder what was said at the end. |
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| Him? I thought men didn't exist but he's wearing heels and... Yep, the principal. Sweet and bitter. Nooooo, mah babies! "Boxed bride"? Eugh, gives me shivers. Oh sh*t, sensei's turn? Shabadadoo. Darn, didn't get to see her transformation haha. WHAT. FUCK THESE PRODUCERS GAWD. |
surfboard_ said: CookingPriest said: Yeah, they were clearly in love. The difference was perception of love Reia's was the normal selfless idea of love, while Yuriika was taught from chidhood to restrict and safeguard and restrict("box up") the objects of her affection. So when Reia turned invisible, Yuriika's answer was to eat her hoping to "preserve" her inside her for herself. Following most of your guessings, I wouldn't be surprised if Reia was some kind of Virgin Mary and Kureha is literally a children of Kumalia. Its not something impossible to consider since there isn't a single mention to Kureha's father (have she ever wondered if he is alive or what probably happened to him?). I think its rather incorrect to imply Reia went invisible because theres not much development of her life. For example, we don't know if she even married or fell in love with a male person, we just think it happened because Kureha was born, but then, WHAT IF she is a result of a supernatural entity? Even though I'm supposing all of this, I don't think its even relevant, specially because theres close to zero development on this part at all. I mean't Yuriika's definition of Invisible - before Yuriika eats Reia, we see the world around Yuriika, including Reia, become devoid of color. It is arguable whether Reia was truly invisible, but Yuriika perceived her as such. |
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| Is also unveiled the mystery of the Chairwoman, that does not disprove my predictions, but I think that is still a secret to reveal. Narration quite linear in its development even if the function of the court remains a mystery, the final twist seems to be made just to lengthen the stock. Plot simple enough in its interpretation. Drawings and animations discrete, soundtrack very pretty. |
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This anime is  |
| Everyone needs to watch this show. This episode was great. I think we all still don't know what Ginko's crime was. Also I want more Lulu character development. |
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| Ginko is Sumika's what? Not killer, unless it means indirectly by inaction and watching her die. Who wrote the letter to Ginko? Who's Kureha's father? What is the sexy way? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I don't know what to say, as it goes on, its becoming more a bit incredible. Sad it's really underrated score on MAL. KUMA DARKUUUU!!! |
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| OH GOD CLIFFHANGER GRGAGTAGAHTA This was probably one of the best episodes yet. Many blanks being filled in, including confirming the (unsurprising) suspicions about Yuriika being Reia's killer. For anyone that is confused about Ginko's "grave sin", I think we were already told what Ginko's grave sin was, or at least given idea of what it has to do with. This happened during the post-ED scene of episode 6. It shows Ginko hiding behind a tree as Yurizono eats Sumika. Whether she just watched and did nothing or played some other more-involved role is the mystery. This show really makes me want to watch Mawaru Penguindrum now. I really like the style. |
-Trippwire-Feb 26, 2015 11:22 PM
| kickmesign asked: What is the sexy way? I don't know. I often see "the sexy way" mentioned in the English subs. But is Life Sexy actually saying that? What he is saying in Japanese is "Sore ga sekushii. Shabadadu!" (それがセクシー、シャバダドゥ！). Isn't this just saying something more along the lines of "This is sexy" ? I don't see anything about some kind of deep philosophical concept about the "sexy way". It sounds pretty simple and clear to say, "This is sexy." |
okanaganFeb 27, 2015 4:46 AM
| Yuriika was a super cute bear! She really loved Reia, btw, she just showed up with the baby lol they didn't show the father... Oh damn it the rain and the thunders, we could not hear what they said... |
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| There is a very interesting English-language article in the February 28th issue of The Japan Times. It is about the current situation of LGBT right. Specifically, it focuses on the situation in the Shibuya Ward of Tokyo. Recently in Shibuya they enacted a law legalizing gay marriage, at least to a very limited extent. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/02/28/national/media-national/shibuyas-sex-move-kicks-debate |
| Judging from the official Yurikuma website as well as the various Twitter accounts, I am picking up a distinct attitude of apathy from everybody except for the voice actress for Kureha. Or maybe it is demoralization. In any case, Kureha sent out a Tweet at 1:49 pm Tokyo time, announcing Episode 8.5. As usual, it airs on TOKYO MAX at 12:30 am, Tokyo time. It will feature a "talk" with the three voice actresses as well as some kind of conversation between the director Ikuhara and Bonjour Suzuki, who sang the OP. It is not clear to me that it will be a "recap episode" in the traditional sense. So don't get your hopes up. |
| There's no new episode today but a talk involving Ikuhara. That little cute bear toy in the episode was just adorable <3 |
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| Now I feel like they are trying too hard, one thing after another reveal? |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
ToG25thBaam said: Now I feel like they are trying too hard, one thing after another reveal? How is that trying too hard? |
| wowowow, intense. I liked it ;) |
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| wow, this episode was actually slightly interesting. |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| What a nasty cliff hanger |
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