Log Horizon Episode 4 Discussion

DenjaX said:
Dude. Thorn Bind Hostage is an OP skill. 15 seconds cooldown? a basic skill even for enchanters.

Imagine having a boss raid dungeon with multiple enchanters. They could exploit the bind by having each enchanter cast it each when bind hostage wears off. 1k damage each hit + cannot move during the bind. Rinse and repeat.


I can already imagine a 5-man dungeon with four enchanters and one archer beat the boss easily. A range because they can seem to perform melee attack even though they are bind.

DenjaX said:
Dude. Thorn Bind Hostage is an OP skill. 15 seconds cooldown? a basic skill even for enchanters.

Imagine having a boss raid dungeon with multiple enchanters. They could exploit the bind by having each enchanter cast it each when bind hostage wears off. 1k damage each hit + cannot move during the bind. Rinse and repeat.


I can already imagine a 5-man dungeon with four enchanters and one archer beat the boss easily. A range because they can seem to perform melee attack even though they are bind.

MuFeR said:
I understood what happened in the fight after reading a few posts but I still don't get why he didn't use T.B.H the moment he walked out of the gate and had to stall for so long. Also balance wise this skill is so broken. 15seconds for a 5k burst when most max level players have 7k-9k life and ~13k on tanks. And imagine if u have multiple enchanters chain-casting it.

Furrytales said:
Demikas talks about how he could have removed the bind easily. Which means Thorn Bind Hostage can be removed, probably by his healers.

Precisely why he and Nyanta must take the precise moment to do a perfect combo to pull it off. Nyanta's has the ability to weaken the enemy, the damage is probably amplified as time goes by. Which is why they need time to let Nyanta fight Demikas.

The Guardian is probably just a distraction to buy them time for the perfect wombo combo.

Pretty Legit.

Sigsig said:
Not OP by raid boss standards; if you played WoW you'd know that 5k damage over 15s is minuscule compared to what main damaging classes can do. Heck, even 50k over 15s is minuscule, if you scale the numbers up to WoW's standard

DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
call me childish names all you want, its still a sao clone due to its identical premise, doesnt matter how much better it is, its quality has nothing to do with whether its a clone or not

Even sao had this mmo talk at the start even if it disappeared later, thats why im hoping log horizon keeps it up like it has been

DenjaX said:
Not talking about the amount of damage only but also how it incap bosses for a duration. You are talking about WoW here. Raid bosses require more people usually. A pro team of many enchanters can beat those boss but it will take some time definitely which is a disadvantage. But it is safe and effective in a way that can be used by a small party in a recommended big party boss fight. Can be a good method if you guys want to split up rares easily.

EDIT: also if we scale it to WoW's standard, 3 enchanters plus one attacker with 1 hit/sec attack speed would potentially yield damage up to 150k in 15 seconds. How? One enchanter use Bind first and attacker let them explode for 5 seconds then second enchanter will use then the third, and first would have his skill finish cooldown to reuse it... The boss would still be caged forever and couldn't even fight back...

Still minuscule? :(

Skorch said:


Yes, 150k in 15 seconds is pretty bad when it requires 4 people do said damage. It's been a long time since I played wow, but a single mage could do more damage in the same amount of time.

And thorn bind is probably not as OP as it first seems, it likely has some diminishing returns on the duration or some other limitation we don't know about yet.

EDIT: That said, I'm really enjoying the series, probably my favorite of the season. And henceforth demigas will be known as demiglaze

Sigsig said:


You didn't consider the rest of Demikas' mates who will definitely join in, then they will be wiped due to sheer numbers. Also, enchanters are probably a rare class seeing that they having zero 1v1 capability -- that makes even levelling hard

DenjaX said:
Does that include incapping the boss forever? :( And I am sure the base damage of the attacker is added to the damage. That's why the lvl 90 monk drained his 14k hp even if Shiroe used bind 2 times and he only took 9 hits because there is still one thorn left.

Natr1x said:


Since most people they have met doesn't really seem to know what thorn bind hostage does it is probably safe to say that enchanter is a rare class. If that's the case then the game might not be properly balanced around it.

Also it doesn't seem that op to me. Large bosses probably have some form of immunity against being rooted and remember that an enchanter can only root one person at a time. If you have multiple enchanters chaining it in pvp the you would have to have at least as many enchanters as you have enemies to be able to stall them. And then you would need extra people to actually trigger the spell. That would only be op because you had more people than you were fighting.

MagisterArcanum said:

Enchanters are most probably the rarest class, for a simple reason: they are really difficult to level due to their lack of strong offensive abilities and low hitpoints in general. What Shiroe demonstrated is that a high level (and skilled) enchanter is every bit as good as a similarly-levelled player of the 11 other classes, just that few have managed that.

eminagnam said:
The battle scene was nicely done. But I wonder why they didn't call griffins when they were inside the Susukino town. If they had called griffins, they could've flown away safely and wouldn't have been attacked by Brigandia outside the town, no?

DenjaX said:
Dude. Thorn Bind Hostage is an OP skill. 15 seconds cooldown? a basic skill even for enchanters.

Imagine having a boss raid dungeon with multiple enchanters. They could exploit the bind by having each enchanter cast it each when bind hostage wears off. 1k damage each hit + cannot move during the bind. Rinse and repeat.


I can already imagine a 5-man dungeon with four enchanters and one archer beat the boss easily. A range because they can seem to perform melee attack even though they are bind.

hgeronimo said:
Oh my god, SHIROE STOP TOUCHING YOUR GLASSES.

Ambient_ said:


No I understood that bit. What I was wondering was why shiroe just stood there for most of the fight, allowing nyanta to get dropped into the red, and forcing naotsugu to use iron castle.

Also, does anyone find it op that thorn bind hostage's active time is as long as it cd? lol. Perma root ftw?

MagicFlier said:

The amount of dmg that the thorns does can increase on how many hits your allies receive from enemies, not the caster himself. :3

xJapaliicious said:


No, it's wrong. The dmg increases on how many hits your allies does in the enemy, with 5k max cap.

xJapaliicious said:
Synchronizing your cast times with an ally is the best taste you can ever had playing any MMO. Your synergy with your friends just let you to do it. GOOD DAYS

xJapaliicious said:

No, it's wrong. The dmg increases on how many hits your allies does in the enemy, with 5k max cap.

NeoAnkara said:
This is what the best of Log Horizon. No one is useless and left behind. They have a role that only one of them can fulfill.

Kaiburr said:
Its nice to have a Loli Assassin.

Aloxamax said:


Wait a minute. I'm pretty sure that when Thorn Bind Hostage is casted 5 roots wrap themselves around the target and destroying each one will cause 1000 dmg, thus if all 5 are destroyed it amounts to 5000 dmg.