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| NO WAY, THEYRE FUCKING DEAD?????????? |
今から歌うことここだけの話にしておいてね Halloween candies:   |
| Now this takes an interesting detour. So because the , other members of the Church despise him, huh? How unfortunate that Jolenta is just included in this mess, when she herself is not aware of her dad's work. |
| I assume Nowak is gonna finally realize why people become heretics in the eye of the Church and dip with Jolenta |
負けたくない |
| I didnt expect this anime to actually show the hanging corpses. Jolenta escapes but it appears she forgot something... her gloves, wonder how Nowak will react to this. |
| I anticipated Ozcy and Badeni meeting their end but torturing Jolenta is something nobody expected from the Inquisition. This show is an emotional roller coaster. I thought this was supposed to be a historical fiction anime... |
| Let the torture commence, as the inquisitor continues to probe for documents that don't exist. Dude is a savage, ready to inflict all pain everywhere. I expected that this episode would hit hard, and I think the show delivered. They could've poked the eyeball out too in a second. Oczy's Joker smile really isn't a good look on him. But at least learning of Rafal gave them some sort of hope. They can still believe in heilocentrism and the spread of scientific thought. But welp they, like the others, certainly aren't going to live to see it. They were goats 😔 shame they're fated to die. Have to wonder if it's some solace that they die under a night sky. They can see their research in their final moments, right? Of course the other inquisitor guy wants to throw Jolenta into the fire 💀 some inquisitors are bloodthirsty frfr. Poor Jolenta.. |
Twintail_DaemonDec 29, 2024 12:35 AM
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| Oh damn, I thought at least one might have had a chance to get away either at the chest or a rope breaking during execution but nope. RIP Oczy and Badeni. At least their desth was meaningful and they got to see the heavens above. Oh damn and Jolenta got tortured some too. Ironic how the one inquisitor only decided to let her go assuming her innocence due to the plot against Nowak. Had he thought she were guilty of being a heretic would he have even made the same decision? Why did he not try the same trick sooner? Why has he not requested to not be an inquisitor and just have the church transfer him to do some tedious work? Perhaps he sees value in being an inquisitor because he thinks it is the right thing to be and was doubting himself on his beleif in Jolenta's innocence. Same thing happened when he hesitated other tortures, a weak stomach and assuming their innocence. Marinate1016 said: Also the IRONY of the brown haired apprentice being the only REAL Christian we’ve seen in the Church thus far in the series and he gets mocked as “weak” and “spoiled” by higher ups. It’s amazing how little of the bible so called Christians read. “Turn the other cheek” would be called weak by these idiots. I really question this if you mean he's all good. See my reasons above. Only thing he deserves credit for is going against orders in order to protect someone he assumes innocent who unknown to him is actually guilty. The fact he didn't run away with Jolenta and what he said about them understanding indicates he thinks his actions are accepted by the Church leaders so he still believes in the Church. There is still room for him to hold similar views against heretics. Maybe he would change later but right now he doesn't seem all that different from others in the Church other than not being as cold hearted or as obedient. kuroneko99 said: "What do you think of the essence of faith?" The word 'C-ism' in the manga is replaced with 'faith' in the phrase. It seems a proper revision. C-ism? I've never even heard that term. |
traedDec 29, 2024 12:43 AM
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traed said: Oh damn, I thought at least one might have had a chance to get away either at the chest or a rope breaking during execution but nope. RIP Oczy and Badeni. At least their desth was meaningful and they got to see the heavens above. Oh damn and Jolenta got tortured some too. Ironic how the one inquisitor only decided to let her go assuming her innocence due to the plot against Nowak. Had he thought she were guilty of being a heretic would he have even made the same decision? Why did he not try the same trick sooner? Why has he not requested to not be an inquisitor and just have the church transfer him to do some tedious work? Perhaps he sees value in being an inquisitor because he thinks it is the right thing to be and was doubting himself on his beleif in Jolenta's innocence. Same thing happened when he hesitated other tortures, a weak stomach and assuming their innocence. Marinate1016 said: Also the IRONY of the brown haired apprentice being the only REAL Christian we’ve seen in the Church thus far in the series and he gets mocked as “weak” and “spoiled” by higher ups. It’s amazing how little of the bible so called Christians read. “Turn the other cheek” would be called weak by these idiots. I really question this if you mean he's all good. See my reasons above. Only thing he deserves credit for is going against orders in order to protect someone he assumes innocent who unknown to him is actually guilty. The fact he didn't run away with Jolenta and what he said about them understanding indicates he thinks his actions are accepted by the Church leaders so he still believes in the Church. There is still room for him to hold similar views against heretics. Maybe he would change later but right now he doesn't seem all that different from others in the Church other than not being as cold hearted or as obedient. kuroneko99 said: "What do you think of the essence of faith?" The word 'C-ism' in the manga is replaced with 'faith' in the phrase. It seems a proper revision. C-ism? I've never even heard that term. He seems a LOT different. He never wanted to do the torture shit. Think you’re mixing him with his blonde buddy not sure what you’re debating here |
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traed said: Though I don't know how the word is translated in the English subtitles ("our religion" or "church doctrine"?), the original word is "C教".C-ism? I've never even heard that term. |
kuroneko99Dec 29, 2024 2:14 AM
| I had to press dislike because Badeni and the other dude died. Oh well, Jolenta. Looks like her dad will be killed only to be replaced by an even bigger arsehole. |
| oh my gosh. i love this anime and I'm scared of it 😭 i cannot see the torture 😭 ohhhhh. damnnnnnn |
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| things are more interesting and more interesting |
| I know it was coming there was no way out for them but it's sad nonetheless. For all the efforts and hardwork of Badeni is for nothing now. Even after fighting till bitter end he still have to give up the documents for Oczy sake. Shows how tough one can be it's not easy when against Nowak. Raphael certainly was THE EXCEPTION. Badeni I think have saved Oczy book which is the only record the leaving behind. As Oczy said it's still hope at the end. The one thing he wanted dying with a smile he achieved that.  Both of them represented two sides of knowledge and curiosity and two excellent characters on their own. And surely they had reached heaven that they desired. (If it even exists that's a different matter) Jolenta also getting framed next would have been to much. Even for Nowak its not fair. Red haired unnamed young inquisitor you sir saved the day behaving like an actual christian and human🫡 "What do you think faith is ? I think, it's the way of life" Goated as usual, Rip Oczy & Badeni.. Just like Raphel it was sad to see them gone now😭 |
WaterMageDec 29, 2024 7:02 AM
| I have more respect for a person like Nowak who acts as the brutal enforcer of a torture regime on behalf of a brutal armed theocracy out of consciously held and articulated firm ideological conviction than I do this other scum doing so to advance a meaningless petty personal rivalry. Although, in the overheard conversation (overheard by one of the two junior inquisitor trainees), some words were also uttered by him about using the takedown of the bishop via Nowak via Jolenta, in effect a soft coup, as means of setting the church about on a course "correct", but that could just be a red herring and aspirational, idealistic, and grandiose language designed to justify it to his small audience or circle of supporters and mask uglier and less impressive personal ambitions. Either way, that's the problem with these systems, even if you fully support the ideology the policies designed and enacted aim to uphold and advance. Even in a school or other much more peaceful and innocuous systems and settings, any place where humans can exercise power over others time and again it is shown how it will always be abused and used by some for the most petty, vain, small-minded reasons imaginable. When you have a system where slow physical destruction (torture) or death (capital punishment) are at stake, there are always going to be people who pervert it just for glory, fame, and the high of wielding power over other random strangers and making them suffer. As long as people are armed and empowered like this the abuse will always occur at some point in some form, regardless of country or culture, regardless of political system or time period. |
| After Rafał's death, I thought to myself: is this going to be a story with passing the torch for those behind? I expected Badeni and Oczy to die at some point and if anything, I was surprised they had that many (11) episodes. Now we're left with Jolenta, who... will also die, won't she? Will the story conclude with heliocentrism being widespread and accepted? Or will it end with the torch still burning and passed to someone new? Jolenta and Novak are the last main characters, so I do wonder. Either way, I didn't expect this series to be so interesting. I was mostly curious because I'm a Pole and I couldn't believe we got an anime set in Poland. Probably the only negative thing I can point out is 'Oczy' as a name. We have separate words for names so it's been weirdly annoying me lmao! Lastly - I love the haunting presence Rafał left. He is gone but he remains in the story. I like when stories do that - especially when you didn't see it coming. I wish more people gave it a chance. |
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| "Entrance To the Heavens not Hell" "Faith is a way of life" Such powerful statements from a hidden gem of a story....I'm glad to be watching this animated, and beautifully so. Off to see what our sneaky badeni had planned set in motion |
  Set by: ChokeMe CARD COLLECTION | DELIVERY |
Reply to IzanaSolos
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK???? THEY ACTUALLY DIED???? What the hell to do now??? And yeah, Rafal's influence needs to be studied. Dude was twelve and ten year later they stay talking about him. The GOAT.
These two were the goats as well, but man. Now it's all up to Jolenta to finish it. Fuck that one sexist fuck and that group that want to kill Jolenta just so they can get Novak exiled as well.
These two were the goats as well, but man. Now it's all up to Jolenta to finish it. Fuck that one sexist fuck and that group that want to kill Jolenta just so they can get Novak exiled as well.
| @IzanaSolos And that's the essence. Although really unfortunate, passing off the baton till the endgame... truly beautiful Watching everyone die, gotta get used to it |
Set by: ChokeMe CARD COLLECTION | DELIVERY |
| I was sure Badeni would keep something, despite what he told Oczy... but didn't expected him to give away to protect Oczy's sight... and he even preserved his texts... nice dude the death scene was great and well made then, I hadn't see that second part coming... had to pause a few times during Jolenta's torture... that was hard to watch glad she escaped... didn't understand why the guy didn't told the blond dude what he heard... he was as reluctant on torture Jolenta as himself... sure he wouldn't oppose to free her? guess he didn't want to bet |
Marinate1016 said: He seems a LOT different. He never wanted to do the torture shit. Think you’re mixing him with his blonde buddy not sure what you’re debating here I wouldn't call it debating per se. I didn't mix them up. I was just saying it's not explicitly clear what his views are on guilty heretics at this point unless I missed something he said in a previous episode. Not saying he is as complacent as the blond guy who seems more willing to become used to torturing people and certainly not like Nowak or the guy who wants to replace the bishop. Rather I am suggesting he may or may not hold similar views as the others in terms of religious views, his objections are so far only ones in matter of how law is upheld. This isn't to say he's exactly the same and I am acknowledging he may hold different religious views kuroneko99 said: Though I don't know how the word is translated in the English subtitles ("our religion" or "church doctrine"?), the original word is "C教". I looked it up seems to be a made up term. Instead of naming Christianity or Catholicism they say C教 (C religion). And instead of Poland it's P王国 (kingdom of P). So it's a kind of self censorship. WatchTillTandava said: I have more respect for a person like Nowak who acts as the brutal enforcer of a torture regime on behalf of a brutal armed theocracy out of consciously held and articulated firm ideological conviction than I do this other scum doing so to advance a meaningless petty personal rivalry. Although, in the overheard conversation (overheard by one of the two junior inquisitor trainees), some words were also uttered by him about using the takedown of the bishop via Nowak via Jolenta, in effect a soft coup, as means of setting the church about on a course "correct", but that could just be a red herring and aspirational, idealistic, and grandiose language designed to justify it to his small audience or circle of supporters and mask uglier and less impressive personal ambitions. Either way, that's the problem with these systems, even if you fully support the ideology the policies designed and enacted aim to uphold and advance. Even in a school or other much more peaceful and innocuous systems and settings, any place where humans can exercise power over others time and again it is shown how it will always be abused and used by some for the most petty, vain, small-minded reasons imaginable. When you have a system where slow physical destruction (torture) or death (capital punishment) are at stake, there are always going to be people who pervert it just for glory, fame, and the high of wielding power over other random strangers and making them suffer. As long as people are armed and empowered like this the abuse will always occur at some point in some form, regardless of country or culture, regardless of political system or time period. It seems difficult to judge the guy's motives without knowing what his end goal is but you could argue his means are more despicable on surface level anyway since he is willing to make willful sacrifices of innocent people while Nowak seems to just be deluding himself. If his goal were to end this sort of treatment it falls into a more complicated ethics on a question of whether the ends justify the means a sacrifice for the greater good. |
traedDec 29, 2024 3:59 PM
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traed said: It seems difficult to judge the guy's motives without knowing what his end goal is but you could argue his means are more despicable on surface level anyway since he is willing to make willful sacrifices of innocent people while Nowak seems to just be deluding himself. If his goal were to end this sort of treatment it falls into a more complicated ethics on a question of whether the ends justify the means a sacrifice for the greater good. If one were against torture or even not against it generally in all cases, but against the Catholic Church having this kind of paramilitary wing and militarized and legal power just because one is against Christian theocracy or theocracies in general on principle in and of itself, then I would argue that it makes sense and is justified (to torture or even ultimately condemn to execution Jolenta and other innocents) if it was deemed and some logic could be demonstrated to argue and show how doing so would further that end, but I'm a utilitarian. But even speaking theoretically about such an idea being the goal of the character in question, I have a very difficult time believing that someone as personally pettily spiteful and rude/belligerent on an everyday level unprovoked as we saw from his behavior in a previous episode could be motivated by such a commitment to codifying mercy. Now, it could be that he is the sweetest teddy bear to practically everyone else and only treats someone like Nowak with open hostility and disdain because he holds him responsible for what he considers the ills of the church such as torture, but I wouldn't bet money on it. He struck me from his first appearance as the type who'd more likely be an arrogant aggressive bully in any setting against any available acceptable target. This is a generalization, but typically people like that whose only ideology is their own self-aggrandizement loathe true believers like Nowak as they can't relate to or understand, and thus feel threatened by, the concept of anyone who could be guided by more idealistic or selfless motives or a belief in something greater than themselves. Rather, they see such people as a personal affront and threat to them by their mere existence. |
WatchTillTandavaDec 29, 2024 5:11 PM
WatchTillTandava said: If one were against torture or even not against it generally in all cases, but against the Catholic Church having this kind of paramilitary wing and militarized and legal power just because one is against Christian theocracy or theocracies in general on principle in and of itself, then I would argue that it makes sense and is justified (to torture or even ultimately condemn to execution Jolenta and other innocents) if it was deemed and some logic could be demonstrated to argue and show how doing so would further that end, but I'm a utilitarian. But even speaking theoretically about such an idea being the goal of the character in question, I have a very difficult time believing that someone as personally pettily spiteful and rude/belligerent on an everyday level unprovoked as we saw from his behavior in a previous episode could be motivated by such a commitment to codifying mercy. Now, it could be that he is the sweetest teddy bear to practically everyone else and only treats someone like Nowak with open hostility and disdain because he holds him responsible for what he considers the ills of the church such as torture, but I wouldn't bet money on it. He struck me from his first appearance as the type who'd more likely be an arrogant aggressive bully in any setting against any available acceptable target. Yes, him being the benefactor does call into question his true motives reasonably so. Good leaders tend to be ones more hesitant to lead |
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| I knew Badeni and Oczy would be caught one day, but it's still painful to watch them go at at such a young age. LEAVE MY GIRL ALONE |
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| Such a damn good episode and a step-up from the past couple, tough seeing Badeni and Oczy not just through the torture but seeing them be hanged with the documents being sold out to the inquisitors but it was really good seeing how heliocentrism and focusing on that played a big part in evolving their characters till the end, like with Rafal (who also really had a huge impact as a kid to be this memorable now there). Jolenta was taken for torture too but at least she managed to 'escape' for the time being, although the track record of success for that has been very low so far in the show's run. It is interesting seeing Novak's place now in the story with her daughter accused as a heretic and her managing to escape with the help of one of the inquisitors who had a change of heart. The inquisitor who helped the escape clearly didn't have the stomach or the heartless nature to just commit all the torturing without question for answers in a cold-hearted fashion, especially due to Antoni wanting to take down Novak for his own self-standing improvement and success rather than faith or the decision being God's will. It is the end for Badeni and Oczy and a new arc of this story to begin I think but damn this was really great stuff. |
| Has the torch been passed on? Bitch better hurry the fuck up, dilly-dallying around for no reason. |
| . |
| This episode was absolutely incredible. The way Badeni chose to protect Oczy’s eye instead of burning the evidence, despite claiming he would, was deeply moving. The death scene, the heartfelt conversation between the two, and the emotional flashbacks were all masterfully done. Additionally, the part involving Jolenta and the corruption was also very good. |
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| Wonderfully moving episode, similar to Rafal's final episode. "Do you even know how painful that is?" "Your writing has no scholarly value, but that's why it might spread... Inspiration." "The sight before us now doesn't look like the gates of hell." |
| The first scene of episode one shows okzy getting tortured without the censorship at 26 seconds, bruh. |
| Caveman draw anime girl on cave, Caveman happy. Cityman angry at cave drawing, Caveman throw club at Cityman. epic candy :   |
| peak anime, although it did make me angry when they hurt jolenta |
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| It's not looking good for Jolenta. I really hope she makes it, but this anime doesn't hold back on anyone. :c Wonder how Novak's gonna react to all this now. |
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| This anime loves blueballing in its best moments. Episode 12 was such bullshit, oczy was finally being cool and was gonna kill Nowak only for a new carriage to suddenly appear. And now his daughter gets to escape. At this point Nowak is just the luckiest guy ever. Im so pissed |
| Now, this is how you make the death of your characters memorable and meaningful for the audience. My problem for the death of Rafal was that we haven't seen a lot of him to become emotionally invested in his cause and mourn for his sacrifice. On the contrary, I felt that his death was in vain and was devised by the mangaka just to prove a point and add shock value to the plot. He introduced him as a completely different person and suddenly became an ardent follower of the truth. In the case of Badeni and Oczy; however, we have been there with them from the beginning. We have seen how they were influenced by the truth they reached through the efforts of Rafal and his predecessors (The occasional mentions of his studies was the the sole positive utilization of his abrupt death in terms of its contribution to the dramatic quality of the story). Even though their commitment to prove this ideal was sometimes felt forced, it was certainly justifiable. We saw how Oczy craved for knowledge after getting in touch with scholars, and how Badeni is actually influenced by the transformation and sentiments of Oczy and couldn't bear to watch him tortured, even ditching his infamous indifference towards anything but himself and his studies. I felt disturbed by seeing Oczy tortured and seeing both of them hanging in the scaffold because of the narrative brilliance of plot which brought us to this point. I think with this episode, the series has reached to a higher level that can get even better with proper planning that strive for creating emotional attachment with the successors of the cause alongside the profound philosophical contemplations that it has depicted masterfully so far. |
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