Descending Stories
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Mich666 said: Hydra0411 said: That father revelation at the end put me off quite considerably. For all the people who are confused about this revelation they actually forshadowed it well, and even though they didn't go as far as to tell it, they made it pretty much obvious as early as this scene in episode 2:  So just rewatch that part to get the hint. That's not "obvious", because nothing about Yakumo character suggested he would go along with sleeping with his adopted daughter, let alone when she's married to his apprentice. "Good foreshadowing" only pays off if it re-contextualizes scenes in a way that makes sense with the characters' behaviors and personalities. In fact the series would make more sense without this "twist". |
Jin_uzukiJan 21, 2018 4:08 AM
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| Can someone please made a timeline. If Yakumo died 16 years ago, and Matsuda is now 95. It means Matsuda was 79 when Yakumo died. The we heard that Matsuda and Yakumo had an age difference between 15/10 years meaning that Yakumo died at 69/64 at that time Shinnosuke was 10 years old what means that Yakuma was 59/54 when Shinnosuke was born. This event happened 3 years later after Yotaro became Yakumo's student if I remember well he was 24 at that time and Konatsu was 21 that would mean that at time of Shin's birth they were 27 and 24. Meaning that Konatsu and Yakumo did it with a 30 year gap (kinda impressive and at the same time gross). Other thing means that at time of Yakumo's death Yotaro and Konatsu were 34 and 37 and in the present time they are 50 and 53, they really aged a lot. I loved this series. 9/10. I loved Yotaro's rakugo it was the best. |
| Interesting revelation about the identity of Shin's real father. This was a great ending to an even greater series, I'm really going to miss this one a lot. This was AOTS, not Scum's Wish or anything else, I don't care what anyone says. Just like the first season, 8.5/10. And my goodness, Matsuda is still alive. Amazing. That line by Yotaro right before the credits rolled where he said "Something this good will never go away!" perfectly sums up what I wish was the case with this series. Unfortunately, all good things must come to an end eventually. |
| People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime. Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait. MAL is literally just anime Twitter as its own website lol. |
| I had no idea what to think of the reveal for a while but I've come to the conclusion that I really like it. It makes sense and, though it forces me to re-evaluate a relationship I thought I knew, it adds a lot to it. It kinda shows why Konatsu treated Yotaro as a sibling more than a spouse: her idea of familial love was somewhat unified rather than separated into blood and romance. God, Matsuda is one resilient man. Rakugo Shinjuu was my AOTY last year and looks to be heading the same way again. 10/10 |
Toa_of_GallifreyMar 24, 2017 7:03 PM
Jin_uzuki said: That's not "oblivious", because nothing about Yakumo character suggested he would go along with sleeping with his adopted daughter, let alone when she's married to his apprentice. "Good foreshadowing" only pays off if it re-contextualize scenes in a way that makes sense with the characters' behaviors and personalities. In fact the series would make more sense without this "twist". Check episode 2 discussion I made that claim by then, so it was obvious, at least for me. a) the marriage happened only AFTER she got pregnant as direct result of it b) it was implied that it was Konatsu who forced him sleeping with her as a revenge and also as a means to preserve Sukeroku bloodline. Yakumo, on the other hand, felt guilty of his lie and couldn't possibly dismiss such request. As effect of it they got close to each other but that's only natural. They probably slept with each other more than once. c) and there were certainly other hints around, can't be bothered by finding them all though. It's not like they were related anyway, so I see it as no big deal. But of course they had to conceal the truth because of.. reasons. |
| And to think I was afraid this season wouldn't live up to the first. Just as great as S1 if not a little better. Easily AOTS and will be a strong contender for AOTY. 9/10 |
| Did they just imply that Shinnosuke's father is Yakumo. That's just weird :/ Still a satisfying finale. Dem feels with Matsuda's speech at the end. The daughter is adorable!  |
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| Well, we were wrong about Matsuda, what a guy. Him being there definitely added a lot more to the finale. I really need to rewatch it because after that bomb that was dropped, I was kinda dazed the rest of the episode. It absolutely makes sense in every way, especially when you watch Shin's performance, but GODDAMN. I loved how different Shin acts toward Yota(he'll never not be Yota to me), he deeply admires and respects him despite being more inclined to Yakumo's rakugo, perfectly mirroring Yota and Yakumo's master-student relationship. Also loved how Yota came across in the whole episode, still goofy and spirited yet much more dignified. Meeting the spirit of performance while doing Yakumo's Shinigami was wonderful, the director just couldn't resist making us go through one of those intense scenes one last time, and it cemented Yota as a rakugo god, a man worthy of carrying its legacy and the names of both Sukeroku and Yakumo. The final cut with him walking away was the perfect way to close the book on the story, since his character arc was the key cog in the story, I just loved it. Beautiful end to a beautiful series, one I'll never forget for putting me into near cardiac arrest so many times through some of the most impressive direction I'll ever experience. Oh yeah, Koyuki best girl. She was the best thing about the finale, mostly because she's a complete Yotafag. |
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| My brain Hurts just at the thought of Yakumo being the True Father...ugh that is in poor taste in my opinion. One Hell of a curve ball if it was true but again...Im not a fan. Good ending to a great anime. Dude Matsuda is Invincible! lol Olem said: Also, I noticed Shinnosuke took on "Kikuhiko" as his name? o_o That's nice to see, though pretty expected considering how much he respects Kikuhiko and with the Yakumo name being taken by Yotaro. I wonder who'll take up Sukeroku's in the future. I think Yota mentions that Konatsu will Take Sukeroku's name. |
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Mich666 said: Jin_uzuki said: That's not "oblivious", because nothing about Yakumo character suggested he would go along with sleeping with his adopted daughter, let alone when she's married to his apprentice. "Good foreshadowing" only pays off if it re-contextualize scenes in a way that makes sense with the characters' behaviors and personalities. In fact the series would make more sense without this "twist". It's not like they were related anyway, so I see it as no big deal. (Accidentally deleted the old post while I was trying to edit to fix some mistakes, sigh)  Yeah, this scene is so much nicer now that I know this father and his daughter fucked, it really pulls the strings of my heart. But hey, apparently Yakumo and Konatsu banging was something that some people deeply anticipated despite the storyline having had a satisfying ending 5 episodes ago. |
Jin_uzukiMar 24, 2017 8:31 PM
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Xefeoria_Neovis said: Mich666 said: For all the people who are confused about this revelation they actually forshadowed it well, and even though they didn't go as far as to tell it, they made it pretty much obvious as early as this scene in episode 2: So just rewatch that part to get the hint. I'm glad there are people who noticed the hints other than me Just like you I'm glad there are people who think alike. I've been getting all the hints since season 1. |
| What an incredible achievement this show is. It balanced so many characters across so many years, all while still having heart and intellect. Beautiful. Episode: 5/5 Overall: 8/10 |
| I thought for sure, that this was going to probably get an 8 or a 9, because I thought there was no way in hell it could be as good as the first season....but fuck me that was great. And the thing about Yakumo being the father??? HOLY SHIT!!!!!!! I still think the first season was my favorite, but there is no way in hell I wouldn't give this season a 10 10/10 |
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Mich666 said: Jin_uzuki said: That's not "oblivious", because nothing about Yakumo character suggested he would go along with sleeping with his adopted daughter, let alone when she's married to his apprentice. "Good foreshadowing" only pays off if it re-contextualize scenes in a way that makes sense with the characters' behaviors and personalities. In fact the series would make more sense without this "twist". Check episode 2 discussion I made that claim by then, so it was obvious, at least for me. a) the marriage happened only AFTER she got pregnant as direct result of it b) it was implied that it was Konatsu who forced him sleeping with her as a revenge and also as a means to preserve Sukeroku bloodline. Yakumo, on the other hand, felt guilty of his lie and couldn't possibly dismiss such request. As effect of it they got close to each other but that's only natural. They probably slept with each other more than once. c) and there were certainly other hints around, can't be bothered by finding them all though. It's not like they were related anyway, so I see it as no big deal. But of course they had to conceal the truth because of.. reasons. Let's think a little bit. This show played tricks with us. First we thought that Sukeroku and Miyokichi committed suicide. And we had the ANIME TITLE to confirm it: "SHINJUU" means lovers suicide right? But latter is revealed that the suicide thing did not happen. Now the show plays with us again: That conversation between Konatsu and Higuchi IMPLIED that MAYBE Kikuhiko is Shinnosuke's father. And we have the grown Shinnosuke that looks a lot with Kikuhiko. And a lot of "hints" through the series. Are you following? Maybe the show is playin' with us the last time. In this show nothing is exactly what supposed to be. To sum it up: What Konatsu said was: "When I was young I was at the center of a whrilwind of feelings towards Master Yakumo: Hatred, obssesion, jealousy, envy...Too many for me to bear at such age. But if I were to sum it all up, perhaps the feeling was "romantic love"?. So she said: "He is Kikuhiko's son". NO she didn't. But she said: "Perhaps I was in love with him when I was younger?" YES she did. So this is the last trick this delicious plot delivered to us. We can think whatever we want to think. That's all. |
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| Something I remembered from the last episode (11) Yakumo pictured Shinnosuke in the audience when he was doing his "Last" performance. Which now that I think about it, why would he want Shinnosuke to be there if he wasn't extremely important to him. I mean I figured Yota would have made more sense, so there's that. Also Yakumo mentions "Yotaro" during the same performance and Shinnosuke says "Daddy" which prompts Young Konatsu to look at him a little weird. Idk just another "Hint" I guess you could say at what could be a possibility. |
| Listen to my podcast https://anchor.fm/waifusandweeaboos Follow my twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/sorasensei1 Winter 2525 Waifus on Profile "You can have multiple Waifus" -me |
Jin_uzuki said: Yeah, this scene is so much nicer now that I know this father and his daughter fucked, it really pulls the strings of my heart. But hey, apparently Yakumo and Konatsu banging was something that some people deeply anticipated despite the storyline having had a satisfying ending 5 episodes ago. I think it's entirely unfair to discredit a meaningful scene where two characters finally settle their lingering differences just because they fucked (your words not mine) in the past. The morality of their relationship and how averse or off-putting it may or may have not been can be argued until the cows come home. I'd say, clues were always hidden in plain sight and up to the viewer's own discretion to decide what/how things went down. Well anyway, Matsuda blown me fuck away with his longevity! It's a bit painful to see him so aged and small but his loyalty has amazed me ;_;. He only spoke a little bit about his history with Rakugo but it added a nice layer to his character even here at the end. Pfffft pudgy Yotaro haha. These characters ended up looking older that they should have. There are a few things i'm not entirely keen with (and they never showed a Konatsu performance...) but overall it's been a treat to follow both seasons. There is a level of detail and direction that I don't see that often with newer seasonals. |
standMar 24, 2017 9:41 PM
| This is the most eloquent and beautiful love story I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. Through all the ups and downs, the relationships between masters and students, men and women, and among colleagues, there was one constant: the love of and for rakugo, which permeated and surpassed all else through these two seasons. Even those of us who have had little or no exposure to rakugo can understand the heartfelt sentiments expressed in Shōwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjū, and it's a beautiful thing. I will miss these characters and their stories—and their stories—but it was truly an enjoyable series. |
| ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ “The right to think is the beginning of freedom, and speech must be protected from the government because speech is the beginning of thought.” — Ashcroft v.Free Speech Coalition, ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ |
SilverDio said: This event happened 3 years later after Yotaro became Yakumo's student if I remember well he was 24 at that time and Konatsu was 21 that would mean that at time of Shin's birth they were 27 and 24. Meaning that Konatsu and Yakumo did it with a 30 year gap (kinda impressive and at the same time gross). Biologically speaking, men are usually fertile from puberty until they die, barring any other abnormalities such as cancer or whatnot. There is no analog to menopause in men, so they are able to father children well into their 80's and 90's if they're able to get it up, that is. |
| ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ “The right to think is the beginning of freedom, and speech must be protected from the government because speech is the beginning of thought.” — Ashcroft v.Free Speech Coalition, ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ |
| And I thought I was fucked up for thinking Konatsu leaned her head a bit too close to Yakumo's crotch that one time. |
| Sieg Zeon! |
| really one of the best anime of the last year and this year as well , we will never get another anime like this in the future , farewell Rakugo you will be for sure missed. |
| Stop the meaningless talk |
| How to ruin a great story. I think they aged Konatsu way too much, 16 years later she should be in her 40, not 60... Even if it's exciting for the rakugo world to have a new storyteller with Sukeroku and Yakumo blood. To me it just doesn't work, She hated him, had sex with him, hated him more...and him just stayed passive all along, not getting involved like he did with Miyokichi (what an ass..). That scene where he's sleeping next to her and being like Sukeroku had moved me, I liked the Yakumo trying to raise her even if he was not the best father. It's like Usagi Drop and a few others, why they always have to do that? Is it what fans really want? What a bunch of weirdos ;) I loved that story so much, yet they were things that didn't work too well, sometimes I had the impression that the author didn't know what she was doing. That's so sad, that last episode cost the whole series some points, but it's still good anyway. |
My Candies: 2024       2023  2022       Bonus candies: 2024   2023  2022  |
| Absolute perfection. A show that remained perfect from start to finish with some of the most brilliant cinematography and scene composition in anime medium. Really there's pretty much nothing else that could match this. With this and Konosuba DEEN h as completely redeemed themselves. Its a perfect ending all in all, times change, traditions evolve, Rakugo as an art is reinvigorated by actual diversity and more progressive rules and the life moves on. The child's father is a non-revelation. It was obvious since the start to be honest. Is it creepy in a way? Sure. Then again these are realistic characters and none of them are idealized or "good guy" in anyway. Rakugo will easily be the AOTY of 2017 because its just impossible to top and its doubtful anything in anime medium would try(anime medium usually does NOT try). This is a show, that strived to perfect it's art(just like the characters in the narrative) and it succeeded. 10/10 |
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| what the actual fuck with shinnosuke father, that was so unnecessary and weird, if yakumo is the father isnt that the most disgusting thing? he raised konatsu, you dont have sex with your children, this is not usagi drop aaaaah I dont get it, I just dont get it. Im afraid to read the manga now and find out that its true... Kumota, why you do this, this is such a beautiful story, you cant ruin it like this |
chinvincible said: Xefeoria_Neovis said: Exactly how I felt. Rakugo didn't pull an Usagi drop here. I t made sense and I always knew it was there. Had to wait till the last episode for the revealation. The ending was fitting It wasn't random like Usagi Drop. And I don't get the sense that it feels gross because Konatsu made that decision as a revenge or at least for the sake of both Sukeroku and Yakumo. Without Shin, the latter wouldn't have continue doing rakugo until his peaceful death. As Konatsu said (not in verbatim though) she has no regrets. So there's no point for people to feel hateful or icky about this ending. This series is perfect. For the sake of Yakumo? I don't think it works. Before she got pregnant he was doing rakugo, and continued for like 20 years after Shin death, he wanted to die doing rakugo and when he got older and feared he might not be able to continue, it was hinted he thought about suicide but couldn't do it because of them. Not convincing at all for me, not well written. I would have liked it better if Konatsu was the daughter of Bon instead but then we would have not had the perfect child who is a mix of Shin and Bon.... Seriously I think she should have stayed with yaoi and just make them have a child XD |
| My Candies: 2024 2023 2022 Bonus candies: 2024 2023 2022 |
| I would have preferred the revelation about Shin's father remained speculative; it would have been a lot more fun if it was the one loose end left for the audience to debate about. It struck me as a little unsavory, but if there's one thing we've learned over these 24 episodes, it's that none of these characters are perfect. At least it was well foreshadowed (Admittedly, I only realized this after the fact), and not enough to put a noticeable smudge on an otherwise near-god-damn-flawless story. Though to be fair, Konatsu didn't verbally confirm it, but it's heavily implied. Other than that, a beautiful series has come to a beautiful end. There's so much that could be said about the wonderfully human characters and cinematic feel of each episode, but I think the show speaks for itself. True masterpiece here. |
| umm,why are people acting like there was some sort of confirmation when there wasn't...... i had all kinds of suspicions but do not forget who all the people in question are and what is their role in this story. Both seasons of this anime are one of absolutely THE BEST things that exist...not only in anime,to be honest. And i am completely serious. 10/10 Long live Matsuda-san! |
Black_wind said: umm,why are people acting like there was some sort of confirmation when there wasn't...... i had all kinds of suspicions but do not forget who all the people in question are and what is their role in this story. Both seasons of this anime are one of absolutely THE BEST things that exist...not only in anime,to be honest. And i am completely serious. 10/10 Long live Matsuda-san! There wasn't but usually when rumors are about your father figure or even the yakuza boss, you deny it, that's common sense. Now she gives the impression that she slept with both and it's a bit out of character for me. She could deny it and still not telling who was the real father. |
| My Candies: 2024 2023 2022 Bonus candies: 2024 2023 2022 |
| lol so my crazy asumption turned out to be the truth. But in the end that doesn't mean anything. They're all happy now, and that's what matter. Well played, Rakugo. AOTY indeed. 10/10 |
| "Whenever you fail at something, always remember that you won't fail as much as Usagi Drop did." |
| One of the most enjoyable anime this year so far and last year as well. Wrapped up perfectly |
| WEW LAD. Bon is one thirsty mother fucker |
| Yo |
| Such a master piece! It looks like I was right in my thought about Shinnosuke´s father since S1, the final episode confirmed it to me. When Bon was in the other side making his rakugo, showing Shinnosuke as the person he wanted to hear his rakugo made it kinda clear. With that said, S1 is better in my opinion. I just have to search for Yotarou Hourou-hen ovas and manga and my life will be complete. |
My Candies 2024  My Old Candies:      |
| Some people found it gross, I will admit that it's not my cup of tea either, blood related or not, most of adults that raise kids from a young age and live with them all that time don't have that kind of feelings (Woody didn't live with or raised his wife BTW). Now I'm just seeing a mad Konatsu raping an old Yakumo closing in eyes and thinking of England, maybe he even told her "do as you want" ... To me it was....Cheap...if she really wanted to go there, I'm sure there was a better way. We all know how manga are created, most of the time they don't know where they are going, as long as it sells, it's all that matters, when it hits the bottom, they are making revelations/drama/whatever. I'm under the impression that they just wanted to reunite Bon and Shin in the end and thought it was a brillant idea, but really, it was unnecessary, just showing Shinnosuke with Sukeroku features but Yakumo manners was enough, there was no need for that pseudo revelation. Yakumo relationship with his new family was enough too, being a father, a grandfather and a mentor was a great achievement for him. He didn't need to be involved in some "incestuous" rumors, I can believe that Konatsu had mixed feelings about him but Yakumo....Hm....He was probably seeing both Sukeroku and Miyokichi in her, feeling guilty about their death, he protected Konatsu, took all the blame.... and one day, out of revenge she said I want a kid with Sukeroku genes and I will do it with you bastard that killed my parents and he said...Maa...do as you want.....He let Miyokichi did as she wanted with him so let's Konatsu do the same. Sorry LOL The author didn't prepare me to this, so it just doesn't work in my dumb mind. For those who said there were hints....Well I don't know. When he's asking Sukeroku if he's mad because of what he has done to his daughter, it doesn't sound quite the same in Japanese, I think he said 娘をあんな風にしたこと which could lead to different interpretation (but I will let that to specialists) Then when he lay down next to her and is reciting rakugo like her father was doing. I think it's nice from a father figure but frankly weird from a person with who you slept with. It looks like he just messing with her mind. Yakumo was not good with women, he had no problem with showing his love to Sukeroku or Yotaro, but when it came to Miyokichi and women in general it was weird, never really taking the lead, saying that he loved them but avoiding them like pest, wasn't really interested in sex according to Miyochi, calling her Itoshii one day, then saying she took everything from him...which it is? Did he love her, hate her, not giving a damn about her, I've never figured out. He felt guilty about it but then, 20 years later did the same to his daughter.....Nah... That rumor doesn't make him look good, there was no need for it, just let him in peace please! So to me, honestly, I'm not sure the author had this end in mind then... :/ And if it was exactly what she had in mind from the beginning , I'm sorry but I think it was poorly written. I so wanted to give it 10/10 but the death scenes and that new rumor were truly disappointing. It was just like a big cheap unwanted fan service. However the art and the rest of the story were great and it's still one of my favorite show. |
| My Candies: 2024 2023 2022 Bonus candies: 2024 2023 2022 |
| I thought I heard Katou from Hibike Eupho So, Shinnosuke went from cute trap voice into JoJo? And he's a siscon Greato daze xD Matsuda-san is so OP! He can't die! Please nerf! Thank you for the jet coaster ride, it's so enjoyable. I'm feeling it a bit too much :( おしまい I hope Rakugo is getting a bit popular in Japan now I hope Rakugo won't die in the future |
Rayl1ghtMar 25, 2017 2:04 AM
"Signature removed"   |
| There's an extra story bundled with volume 10 featured Kiku, the mafia boss, ghost Sukeroku and Konatsu in her teens so there might be some clues if it's translated/animated? At this point it doesn't really matter to me who the father was though. This series was amazing and I love it. |
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| I'm crying T_T AOTS |
| I think I preferred S1 mainly because of Sukeroku and Myokichi' charismas and also because of this historical "back in the days" feel. I loved that. They drew well the older versions of our characters in this episode. It made the time skip quite realistic. Konatsu finally and officially doing rakugo is great. That's progress. As for the final revelation, that's something hilarious. A story with a main character having fucked his adoptive daughter (as she was adult though) with a 20 - 30 years age gap and getting a kid out of marriage ranks at place 19 on MAL. Ha ha ha! Amazing! And what a perfect timing : just at the end and everything, all the hints glue together, there's no doubt, even shin's face drawing points at his true father. Look at his eyes just before he began doing his rakugo! If they had done the revelation by episode 2 or 3, this show would have been shot down in the ratings. But here, they just put it after 11 episodes where people where repeatedly saying how great this anime was and then in this episode, the final blow : "oh! by the way, this cute kid, he's the son of a daughter and her adoptive father with a 30 age gap difference, screw you!" Ha ha ha! The thing, it wasn't even "necessary" in the story, they could have gone without and everybody would have still been happy, even happier. I had suspicions in the beginning but I totally bought into the "yakuza boss" decoy. They got me/us here. Fact is the writer of the story really wanted this in her story. Exactly like in this famous manga some other MAL user talked about (In this regard I do think it's exactly the same, the only difference here is there was no build-up and close description of what was happening) It seems really like this kind of romantical relationship is no big deal in japan. It's probably cultural. This anime has a more mature audience anyway, the downrating won't be as big as with a teenager audience I suppose. Very good show anyway. |
Ysad_ZiwezhanMar 25, 2017 5:49 AM
| Guys, guys, let's remember just whom it is that Konatsu is talking to: the Sensei. We all know just how sensationalist he can be and how wild / off-kilter his theories usually are (only to be shut-down time again by others in the past). I choose not to believe the Sensei, and not just because Konatsu gives us opportunity for denial, but not actually addressing the issue directly, but also because of what WisteriaHysteria pointed out on Reddit. "But Higuchi has, all along, been an audience insert. He is the emphatic rakugo-otaku. For goodness sakes, he even writes his own rakugo stories that are really just fan fiction of our protagonists. These kinds of lurid fan theories with no basis in reality are common for, well, fans. And this was, more than anything IMO, the writer/author poking fun as a fan with fans, and using Higuchi as voice to do so." Also, we, as an audience, should take into account that most of these characters are storytellers thus they are prone to toying with the audience for the sake of drama. Just as how Yakumo was an unreliable narrator when it came down to telling the "truth" about how Sukeroku and Miyokichi died, I think that Konatsu is being an unreliable narrator when it comes to the truth about Shinnosuke's parentage. She's toying with the Sensei, giving him just enough to satiate his appetite, but not enough to know the real truth. Furthermore, many people are pointing out "evidence" and "foreshadowing" for this reveal which just seems circumstantial depending on one's perspective of their relationship. I took the final scene between Konatsu and Yakumo as one of a parent/child finally realizing how much they care for each other. Heck, Yakumo even talks about how he should have planted a sakura tree when he took Konatsu in so it would grow with her. He also mentions how much joy he received from raising Konatsu -- a joy that was undeniably paternal even though he had trouble expressing it because he was keeping the truth about her parents death a secret and he wanted her to hate him as a punishment for what happened that night. The scene at the end of episode 13 suggested, to me, that Yakumo was apologising for not being a good enough father figure to Konatsu (which both Sukeroku and Miyokichi forgave him for in the afterlife). I think that's why Yakumo was so happy when Shin came along -- he could be a befitting grandfather to him because the relationship didn't come with any excess baggage or trauma. I get that Shinnosuke has an aura about him that really does resemble Yakumo, but when you idolise someone so much you start to take on their traits and model yourself after them. It's kind of like how Yotaro started to become more and more like Sukeroku after he discovered him, despite not being his blood-relative or even meeting him once in his life. Nevertheless, both Shinnosuke and Yotaro are essentially their own people. Whilst Shin might have an aura that is similar to Yakumo, a lot about him is starkly different -- see his relationship with his sister, mother, Yota and even the way he performs Rakugo. |
jepifishMar 25, 2017 5:56 AM
Mich666 said: Hydra0411 said: That father revelation at the end put me off quite considerably. For all the people who are confused about this revelation they actually forshadowed it well, and even though they didn't go as far as to tell it, they made it pretty much obvious as early as this scene in episode 2: So just rewatch that part to get the hint. I think that's really stretching it lol. He was referring to what Konatsu was doing at home during the day because she's usually running errands, watching Yotaro perform or doing other things. Not taking naps and crying about her parents' death in her dreams. |
| Way to stick the landing. Still how surprised that, for me, it managed to surpass the unbelievably high bar S1 set last year. Will be shocked if we see another that even comes close to rivaling the pure quality of it in the next few years I don't give this out lightly and I know it's not "perfect" but I"m giving this a 10/10. |
akisame__ said: Guys, guys, let's remember just whom it is that Konatsu is talking to: the Sensei. We all know just how sensationalist he can be and how wild / off-kilter his theories usually are (only to be shut-down time again by others in the past). I choose not to believe the Sensei, and not just because Konatsu gives us opportunity for denial, but not actually addressing the issue directly, but also because of what WisteriaHysteria pointed out on Reddit. "But Higuchi has, all along, been an audience insert. He is the emphatic rakugo-otaku. For goodness sakes, he even writes his own rakugo stories that are really just fan fiction of our protagonists. These kinds of lurid fan theories with no basis in reality are common for, well, fans. And this was, more than anything IMO, the writer/author poking fun as a fan with fans, and using Higuchi as voice to do so." Also, we, as an audience, should take into account that most of these characters are storytellers thus they are prone to toying with the audience for the sake of drama. Just as how Yakumo was an unreliable narrator when it came down to telling the "truth" about how Sukeroku and Miyokichi died, I think that Konatsu is being an unreliable narrator when it comes to the truth about Shinnosuke's parentage. She's toying with the Sensei, giving him just enough to satiate his appetite, but not enough to know the real truth. Or maybe the mangaka is clever enough to let the possibility for some readers to live in denial if they want to. I don't see so many people here commenting "how fun! she tried to make us believe Shin is Yokumo's son! Ha hah! good one!". And then, true, similarity in behaviour or rakugo is no indication they are blood related, but to draw their eyes the same way is. One can always fool himself believing they are just pushing "the joke" a step further with the art, but then it's pushing it until bad writing. The "same face" point makes sense if they are hinting toward the father-son relationship, it becomes a weird comedy show if not. Do you believe they have such a shitty humor? On the other hand, it's almost not realistic (and bad writing) how the son does not notice he has the same face as his true father (there might be somewhere some photos from Yakumo as he was young) and if it's obvious for us, it should be as well for most af the protagonists. Furthermore it always bugged me how the biological father issue from Shinosube's perspective was totally ignored in this story, even if we suppose the Yakuza is the father. As a kid you might want to know who your biological father is and know him a bit more personally. There was nothing in this regard but they didn't explore the love-hate romance between Yakumo and Konatsu either. It's more convenient and less controversial that way. |
 literally this show |
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