Koi Kaze Episode 12 Discussion

What did you think of this episode?

DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.

Apr 16, 2016 9:14 AM

#51

Rod_Russ

Offline

Jun 2013

578

I have a moral question now: love should overcome any barrier? Incest in the animal world is the same human being? He, who is older, was inconsequential?

Aug 17, 2016 6:41 PM

#52

Punkero

Offline

Feb 2014

7899

Didn't expect the sex, glad the show went there.

Sep 18, 2016 12:47 PM

#53

Magebane

Offline

Jun 2010

This show isn't pulling any punches, I see.

While objectively, beside having children, siblings being together shouldn't really be any problem at all. Nonetheless, the last scene was tremendously uncomfortable to watch. I guess she's supposed to be 16, but she looks like she's 12-14 or thereabouts. So visually the scene reads like Koshiro is abusing her. Incidentally, that was what Chidori was originally worried about, for good reason... You know, cause that's what vast majority of these kinds of relationships are.

You can't really have a healthy relationship without both participants being equally mentally developed. That being said, Nanako seems to be quite mature, if idealistic, so perhaps this working out wouldn't be totally out of bounds.

Nov 5, 2016 2:30 PM

#54

Nobo

Offline

Dec 2014

So many of you getting 'disturbed' like, what did you think was going to happen?

Jan 18, 2017 8:55 AM

#55

Taosu

Offline

May 2009

Orange-kun from this episode has taken the lead from Table-kun of Code Geass in my list of inanimate anime characters I'm envious of.

Nov 26, 2017 8:06 PM

#56

hiddentheory

Offline

Jan 2016

I got boner after this episode, is it okay?

Dec 6, 2017 6:11 AM

#57

CoreFinder

Offline

Jan 2017

391

This episode was depressing af.

Mar 18, 2018 6:28 PM

#58

Kitsu-nee

Offline

May 2010

6704

So they really went there huh... Kiss and starting a relationship is one thing, but going all the way the very same day?! She's just a teenager, it's not the healthy way to start up for her... Dunno what to think about it, honestly. I still think that Koshiro ought to know better than that.

Sep 30, 2018 7:21 PM

#59

ZachM

Offline

Nov 2013

193

I think it would've been better off just skipping over any potential on screen sexual relations between the two of them. I understand it's to convey the seriousness of the situation, but still. If anyone wasn't uncomfortable up to that point, that'll do it.

Nov 15, 2018 2:06 PM

#60

icanhazqnime

Offline

Apr 2014

327

Don't try this at home, Kids! But yeah, very intense.

May 17, 2019 10:21 PM

#61

SaiDrew

Offline

Apr 2018

1488

They really went for it. Those two might be in love but still, everyone, every scene feels so miserable, unsettling. I keep thinking both Nanoka and Koushirou will never be happy (especially him).

I don't mind the incest part but the fact that she is a minor and he doesn't seem suitable to be a relationship.

Sep 27, 2019 2:08 PM

#62

BTDarklings

Offline

Jan 2016

2480

Didn't expect them to fuck.. but.

THEY FUUUCCKKED.

I mean, if you're gunna make an anime like this might as well go all the way right?

Jan 16, 2020 10:01 AM

#63

CarbonMD

Offline

Aug 2017

2433

This is the most realistic incest show I've seen. MC sucks, he blew the opportunity to get together with hot babe boss. MC should perish

Feb 12, 2021 7:57 PM

#64

removed-user

Offline

Jul 2018

562334

I'm glad this didn't have either explicit sex nor horribly annoying characters. I'm very glad.

Oct 18, 2021 3:14 AM

#65

hanakocheeks

Offline

Jan 2021

1706

I'm confused, really don't know what to say. No, actually I want to say this is the first episode that I don't like (most likely because they did it), but at the same time I felt it was a very emotional and powerful episode, and a kind of "end" of all those feelings and inner conflicts.

I didn't expect them to get to the point where they kiss and even have sex but strangely I don't feel weird or disgusted... don't know why even though I've never supported incestious love but maybe because this all feels so natural (starting with them who didn't know that they are siblings, there are more and more inner conflicts and problems while the feeling of love between man and woman continues to grow inside) that at the moment when Nanoka said that to Koushirou, it became the "peak" of the feelings the two of them had been holding back for so long.

Oh and I like Koushirou's response to Chidori about himself and his miserable life. I think the ones who have the right to determine whether his (and Nanoka's) life is miserable should be themselves, not someone else.

hanakocheeksOct 18, 2021 4:12 AM

Jan 6, 2022 8:43 PM

#66

Saiaku27

Offline

Aug 2018

146

Sad, i am sad, all im feeling is melancholy its like they just did an adrenaline rush with no future planing ig peace before calm , really feel like sighing out loud rn lets see how they gonna end it :')

Mar 17, 2022 11:54 AM

#67

RKASHYAP621

Offline

Jun 2020

645

OOOh! The trigger pumped us to the peak as expected after all!.... Yet that freaky essence of this episode has the settling tone which is so beautiful to experience.

PS: The OST of this series is amazing!

icanhazqnime said:
Don't try this at home, Kids! But yeah, very intense.

xDxDxD

RKASHYAP621Mar 17, 2022 12:00 PM

Jun 2, 2022 10:33 AM

#68

Zevven

Offline

Nov 2018

1070

Girl just needed a mature male adult in her life, because she grew up without a father and her father is not really doing anything even now.
Boy just wanted something geniune(BUT NOT WITH YOUR SISTER, DAMN IT).

Because 2 of them grew up apart, their sibling bond was pretty weak so they were missing that connection and somehow fell in love before they acknowledged they were siblings, but still had chances to make it a normal connection, unfortunately both of them failed...

I hate everyone equally

Jun 2, 2022 10:34 AM

#69

Zevven

Offline

Nov 2018

1070

All in all, they are both extremely immature and Chidori was right.

Well done on psychological part(for most part).

I hate everyone equally

Jun 13, 2022 6:14 AM

#70

snowman_builder

Offline

Dec 2009

3343

Well, I thought I'd feel happy if they got together, but it doesn't feel right. A relationship that can only lead to misery. And both of them know that damn well. Even if not now but they will feel so much pressure that they cannot reveal their relationship or need to give up everything and break away from their loved ones. I guess that may be still manageable, but they will never be able to have a family of their own. Can people lead a life like that? Is it completely wrong? And the stress that their secret might be revealed somehow. Can they lead a normal life and be part of society, or will they just go into hiding?

Aug 26, 2022 2:25 AM

#71

AfterRed14

WIRED Network

Offline

Mar 2021

Honestly, I didn't see that coming. Only 1 more episode to go...

Jan 9, 2023 4:03 AM

#72

EsieEyen

Offline

May 2018

1051

My reaction to this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4WO0mirjlQ

Feb 27, 2023 4:09 AM

#73

Farabeuf

The Shrike

Offline

Nov 2009

11737

This can only end terribly for both of them. Chidori to the very end tries to talk reason into them, but to no avail. Lines were crossed and there's no turning back

"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

Apr 19, 2023 2:49 AM

#74

_kukiyomenai

Offline

Dec 2013

2587

This made me cry loudly huhuhu Koshiro was provided with an excuse to avoid her damn Chidori is a nice woman, she's really concern with both of them huhu

★━━─
𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘐 𝘣𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘮𝘺 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘵?
𝘞𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘥𝘢𝘺?

Jun 11, 2023 4:39 PM

#75

Archean-Return

Offline

Dec 2022

5423

Nanoka fared much better against Chidori's aggression than Souchirou did, mainly because she seems to be stronger willed than him. Since Chidori's verbal attacks are specifically engineered for psychological and emotional effect (which are less effective against the mentally resilient), Chidori found them wanting in this situation. I find it fun to analyse these interactions like they're elemental types in a video game.

ｲ乇刀乇乃尺ﾑ乇

╔⏤═⏤╝

╚⏤═⏤╗

☽ Shaded Horizon ☾

Jul 6, 2024 7:39 PM

#76

TheGhostOfK13v

Offline

Jul 2022

Well this is certainly depressing... Nanoka is such an angel...

I didnt like when Chidori tried to get violent with Nanoka.

Aug 11, 2024 5:14 PM

#77

drproctor

Offline

Mar 2022

nasty how can someone even think about making a show about this shit

Jan 27, 9:58 AM

#78

ahnold11

Offline

Sep 2019

This show is like a car wreck happening in slow motion, you just can't look away. But it also very poignantly captures the feeling of "star crossed lovers". If these poor souls were in different times/families/bodies/ages etc, then they might actually have had a shot together.

It really does a good job of making it feel like a realistic portrayal, ie “if this were to happen, it probably would play out like this”. It seems to force you to examine your own personal values. Are what the two characters doing so wrong? What if they are good people, sweet and kind, and it feels rather pure? Is that enough to justify their feelings and actions?

My read on it, is it seems like these two have ended up in a cruel twist of fate. Their path is full of unavoidable suffering, no matter what they choose.

Koushiro grew up an only child and then had to deal with losing that status and all his parents' attention at a later age. Then the sudden dissolution of his family through divorce. You can see how that affected him, not really making meaningful connections to other people, and coasting through his life, almost half asleep. Everything starts with him at his lowest state, he's grown, and apathetic, divorced now even from the changing of seasons. He's depressed, but worse, he's too disinterested to care even about his own depressional. A breakup doesn't even move the needle for him. Truly a pathetic character.

And then a chance moment with a student, is made memorable by a sudden gust of cherry blossom filled wind (Our titular "love wind" in action). That alone isn't enough though. Another chance meeting, and in a moment of serendipity, 2 tickets to an amusement park that otherwise would have no use. On a whim, why not offer to the student, and then a carefree youthful invitation to come along.

Even in the amusement park, everything was fine. Nothing wrong with spoiling a kid as a distraction from your situation. But the ferris wheel ride. The setting, the view, the height, the detachment so far removed from your everyday life? Both characters are feeling reflective and end up sharing with another person. This is the key moment here, Koushiro does not feel connected to other people, and yet at this moment he meets a kindred soul, someone he feels compelled to share with. Even in this, their age difference keeps them at a distance, he gives Nanoka the advice of age to her youth, don't take the path he did, don't end up like him. Hold onto her feelings, because they are precious. One day you might run out of them. A moment of kindness between strangers.

If that was it, everything would have ended there, and both characters would have lived their lifes unaltered. But again, the fated ill Wind of Love strikes again and the two are thrust together, forced to the realization that they aren't strangers, but instead related, siblings separated for years.

This is the tipping point. A chance meeting with a student, a few moments of reflection, interested to ponder, to remember occasionally and then mostly move on and forget. But to live with them afterwards, see them every day, the intimacy of family cohabitation, there is no forgetting what transpired on that ferris wheel. Forced reminder every day.

Koushiro isn't a monster, he's shocked, recognizes that the level of intimacy atop that ferris wheel, does not fit with estranged siblings with a 12yr age difference. He readily switches into the gear he would use if this was only the first time they had been reintroduced after so long. And this though is the final nail in the coffin. I have yet to mention Nanoka. And honestly the show mostly gives us Koushiro's perspective, but Nanoka herself plays an active role. She isn't indifferent to having an older brother. In Fact growing up with a brother, but not meeting them has only fuelled her curiosity over the years. She has looked forward to this forever, speculating about what it might be like, what he might be like. We don't know if her thoughts and feelings have only focused on a typical sibling relationship. But we do know she's romanticized it for ages.

And this immediately is the friction. Koushiro can't ignore Nanoka, she won't let him. She's 100% for developing their personal relationship, and he wants 100% the opposite. This provides the ignition point for the blaze that burns the rest of the show. His resistance to her only makes him MORE intriguing, and more interesting to her. It makes her try even harder to have whatever type of relationship she imagined. A kind, cool, interested, caring older brother. She wants to make up for lost time. And her insistence only makes it more difficult for Koushiro to ignore her, to fall back into a typical relationship of an annoying younger sister to mostly be ignored, common for someone his age.

So they can't avoid each other, and Nanoka wants an intimate relationship, one that reflects the closeness of their blood relationship. So Koushiro is now sharing living arrangements with a young woman going through adolescence. One he can't seem to ignore, can't seem to put enough distance between. And being a man, he can't but help notice all the ways she is turning into a woman. Without the familiarity of growing up together, without the annoyances, and largely boredom between siblings that all essentially add barriers to these sorts of things, he can't help but notice them and have those thoughts. And like intrusive thoughts, the harder you try to ignore them and push away, the stronger they seem to root themselves in your mind. Try to forget something, and you'll only end up remembering it twice as hard.

And so that's the crux of the show. Fate conspired to remove all the barriers that usually exist to keep people like this "appropriately" apart. But Koushiro can't help seeing Nanoka as a stranger, but even worse so, one he's shared some personal, intimate emotional moments with, a rare connection to another person. She's now in color to him when most other people fade to black and white. And this stranger is starting her journey to full womanhood, a delicate and tumultuous time, one he unfortunately can't help but be painfully aware of.

The show does a good job of keeping the aspects of physical attraction and desire to a minimum. Many siblings will notice the changes of opposite sexed family members, puberty both for themselves and siblings, and react with some amount of curiosity. But the family dynamics usually keep it to nothing more than just that. It's obviously there, Koushiro notices, and struggles, but her developing womanhood is more the lens through which he can't help but focus on the entire person. It's just one more thread that pulls him towards thinking of her, but not the main one.

What is interesting, and the show doesn't do much to clarify this, is when did Nanoka stop seeing him as simply a brother, and something more? Was it right from the start, was it always part of her romantic ideas about her mysterious older brother? Or was it something that evolved over time? Their intimacy living together, her intentions to be closer to her brother, all at the time of her developing adolescence. Did she start to notice him as a man, and not simply an older brother? Her confusion after the train scene might suggest that. My suspicion is it's a likely combo of all of those, again a cruel twist of fate.

And so these characters end up cursed, cursed to a life of suffering. Do what society expects of them, and live the hollow life of love unfulfilled?. Koushiro tries his best, but finds that he can't go back to the life he lived before, it's somehow even worse. Feeling nothing was easier than the grief and torment he must endure being apart. With Nanoka, she is young and sure in her goals in the way that only youth can be. She has wanted this for so long, even if the romantic "love" aspects are new, it feels like a natural extension of her goals and she sees no reason why she shouldn’t be allowed to have everything she wants.

So either they live apart, face no scorn from society, but fade away in suffering, having all the people around them wondering what's wrong, unable to help? Or give into their desires and suffer scorn from society, family, friends, essentially forsaking everything else just for each other.

Moral Objections: So how do I feel about all this? The show does a good job of justifying and portraying the suffering of its characters so you suffer along with them. But the fact of the matter exists that their relationship has two very problematic areas. It's a sibling relationship, and also a huge age difference with an adolescent school girl. The sibling stuff I can get over. "In breeding" is a biological concern, but recent data has suggested that our fear of it is largely overblown. Even sibling relationships can be relatively safe, with procreation, it's repeated cases of this over time in a family line that can lead to real problems. Genetic diversity doesn't need to be as big as we think. And if they aren’t planning on having kids, then even that concern goes out the window. And honestly, they didn't grow up together so for all intents and purposes are no different from strangers. So I don't mind that.

But the age difference. He's 27, she's 15 (maybe 16 after the birthday?). That's not an insurmountable age gap, but when one member is an adolescent, it's a huge problem. Nanoka is just making that transition from childhood and is immature in many ways. Even if biologically she is growing up, her mind is a much bigger issue. That age gap, at that time, can lead to a real power imbalancel. Chidori, while mostly cliche in her reaction and handling of it, did hit on some good points. While this is what Nanoka wants now, she might feel differently about it in a few years. It's way too easy for this age gap to end up taking advantage of the younger person at this age, even if unintentionally. History and society is full of countless examples of this. We have laws around this for reasons, and they largely revolve around exploitation. It's very easy for a 15yr old (even 16) to end up exploited. This doesn't even have to be just on a physical level, there are all potential types of abuse out there. As a 27yr old, he should be aware of this. You don’t really get the sense that his hesitation involves her age though.

So my number one criticism is the show doesn't attempt to address this at all. It's glossed over. Nanoka is given agency to state that this is what she wants, but the show also spends lots of time showing her struggles with growing up, what it means to be adolescent, an adult, how people see you etc. She doesn't have all the answers internally, so it makes it really hard to be confident that she is making a mature and fully informed decision.

As for what will happen to our two MC's going forward. The show hasn't shied away from suffering, and showing how cruel their "fate" can be. They made their decision, they are swimming against all of society's expectations and rules. The reaction probably won't be good, can they at least keep what they have sacrificed everything else to obtain, or will they lose also, and be left with nothing? I’m not hopeful. This show, from the very beginning, with the incredible OST, has all signs of a tragedy. Sadness and loss permeates the vibe of this show. I almost don’t want to watch the last episode to avoid the potential stress/pain.

See All Discussions

Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 ) kisami - Jan 25, 2009	187	by NetorareVibes »» Mar 11, 10:49 PM
Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 9 Discussion brinan - Nov 29, 2009	27	by gauravb28 »» Jan 25, 10:00 AM
Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 ) rreggiebryant1 - Sep 1, 2009	60	by jonathans_7thacc »» Nov 21, 2024 11:47 AM
Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 6 Discussion MusashiRose - Dec 1, 2010	25	by TsutanaiFuun »» Sep 6, 2024 12:07 PM
Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 5 Discussion stAtic91 - Nov 11, 2009	35	by TsutanaiFuun »» Sep 5, 2024 7:30 AM

Koi Kaze Episode 12 Discussion

More topics from this board

Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )

Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 9 Discussion

Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 )

Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 6 Discussion

Poll: » Koi Kaze Episode 5 Discussion

MoreTop Anime

MoreTop Airing Anime

MoreMost Popular Characters