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Live Updates: Russia Invades Ukraine From Land and Sea

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Feb 23, 2022 7:29 PM
#1

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Update:

Live Updates: Russia Invades Ukraine From Land and Sea

Areas across Ukraine were under attack on Thursday morning. President Biden condemned President Vladimir Putin’s actions, saying he would speak to the American people on Thursday.

Early Thursday, just as President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia announced on television that he had decided “to carry out a special military operation” in Ukraine, explosions were reported across the country.

Blasts were heard in Kyiv, the capital; in Kharkiv, the second largest city; and in Kramatorsk in the region of Donetsk, one of two eastern Ukrainian territories claimed by Russia-backed separatists since 2014.

Ukraine’s Interior Ministry said that Russian troops had landed in the southern port city of Odessa and were crossing from Russia into Kharkiv. Footage captured by security cameras showed Russian military vehicles crossing into Ukraine from Crimea, the peninsula that Russia seized in 2014.

Rocket attacks targeted Ukrainian fighter jets parked at an airport outside Kyiv, and Ukraine closed its airspace to commercial flights, citing the “potential hazard to military aviation.”

As air raid sirens blared in Kyiv, the western city of Lviv and other urban areas, residents rushed to take shelter in bus and subway stations. In Kyiv, people packed up their cars and waited in long lines to fill up with gas on their way out of the city. In eastern Ukraine, early signs of panic appeared on the streets as lines formed at A.T.M.s and gas stations.

With attacks across the country, it quickly became clear that Russia’s campaign, whatever Mr. Putin meant by a “special military operation,” was aimed at far more than the rebel territories in the east. Within an hour, Ukraine’s state emergency service said that attacks had been launched in 10 regions of Ukraine, primarily in the east and south, and that reports of new shelling were “coming in constantly.”

Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine’s foreign minister, called it “a full-scale invasion of Ukraine” and said his country would defend itself, while calling on the world to “stop Putin.”

Russia’s Defense Ministry said that it was using “high-precision weapons” to disable military infrastructure, air defense facilities, military airfields and Ukrainian army planes, Russia’s state-run RIA Novosti news agency reported. But the ministry said it was not attacking cities, and promised that “the civilian population is not at risk.”

The Ukrainian authorities said that invading naval forces were coming ashore at multiple points, including in Kharkiv and the southern city of Kherson. Three emergency workers were injured when a command post was struck by shelling in Nizhyn, in the north, and six people were trapped under rubble when the city’s airport came under attack, Ukraine’s Interior Ministry reported.

Military depots, warehouses and National Guard were hit with artillery blasts, the ministry said.

As dawn broke in Kyiv, President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said that he had declared martial law. The country’s defense minister told citizens that the army was “fending off enemy forces” and “doing everything it can to protect you.”

But the army was under siege. In the east, Russia-backed separatists — their ranks bolstered by the arrival of hundreds of Russian mercenaries in recent days, according to European officials — said they were hammering Ukrainian troops along the entire 250-mile front line that has divided the rebels and Ukrainian forces since 2014.

Seeking to capture the entire territories of Donetsk and Luhansk, which Mr. Putin recognized as independent on Monday, the rebels were “using all weapons at their disposal,” the Russian news media reported. Ukrainian officials said the attacks included artillery strikes.

Ukraine’s state border service reported that Russian troops stationed in Belarus, north of Ukraine, had launched an attack with support from the Belarusian military. Russia had deployed as many as 30,000 troops to Belarus for exercises this month that the United States warned could provide cover for an attack against Kyiv, which lies a fast 140-mile drive away from a main border crossing. President Aleksandr G. Lukashenko of Belarus denied that his forces were involved.

By midmorning in Kyiv, Russia’s Defense Ministry said it had disabled all of Ukraine’s air defenses and air bases. Ukraine’s Interior Ministry said that Russian forces had captured two villages in the Luhansk region.

The fighting intensified on Thursday afternoon.

Ukrainian forces shot down six Russian fighters and a helicopter in a fight to maintain control over key cities, a senior Ukrainian military official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to release information outside official channels. Ukraine’s defense minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, called on all Ukrainian civilians to join the fight and enlist with territorial defense units.

“Ukraine is moving into all-out defense mode,” he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/24/world/russia-ukraine-putin

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/world/europe/ukraine-maps.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60454795

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60503037

@deg's original post below

*** *** ***
Explosions were reported in cities throughout Ukraine early Thursday

explosions are starting dang

Explosions were reported in cities throughout Ukraine early Thursday morning, signaling that a full-scale Russian invasion had begun. Here is a map tracking where attacks have been confirmed. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1496708700010344449


Moderator edit: added some articles.
MeusnierFeb 24, 2022 2:27 AM
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Feb 23, 2022 8:46 PM
#2
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Is there still a draft? I sure as hell don't want to fight in this dang conflict.
Feb 23, 2022 8:51 PM
#3

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Yeah, as someone who's followed the conflict over Ukraine since the 2013 - 2014 period (although not as closely in the past two years on a daily play by play level), the unrest in the Middle East and North Africa region since 2011 and Russian involvement in the Levant including the Russian intervention in Syria beginning in 2015, the move to actually order such a far-ranging and wide-scale attack and probably go in for the kill and topple the post-Maidan government installed by the coup in Ukraine genuinely surprises me.

In recent thread topics I did mention it obviously wasn't impossible as nothing is and would never say it was impossible/would never happen, but I considered it extremely unlikely, but now, thinking about it, I suppose it's more plausible if you put in context events of the past few years: Getting closer with Belarus despite Minsk being notoriously pretty maverick with a lot of Russian-Belarusian tensions over contrary positions in the past and manufacturing the Middle Eastern refugee crisis for the EU on the Polish border by flying and busing in random Iraqi Kurds there (maybe Lukashenko is more reliant on Russian security collaboration since the 2020 - 2021 Belarusian civil unrest was quelled possibly with Russian assistance or he just feels more vulnerable domestically), not weighing in in any real and meaningful way on the side of Armenia in the war with Azerbaijan over the Nagorno-Karabakh in 2020 so it could maintain good relations with Baku (and indeed Russia and Azerbaijan just renewed treaty terms of friendship/cooperation on February 22nd), maintaining working relations over mutual interests with Turkey and Israel despite adversarial aims in Syria, etc.

The reason it surprises me is because prior to this anyone who's followed Russian involvement in these conflicts (especially Ukraine and Syria) and the trajectory of Russian foreign policy since Putin took office in 1999 and through other major changes (like the army reforms) and conflicts, etc. through an IR lens, most fair and reasonable analysts would say he has been exceedingly cautious and conservative to the point where he was criticized by some Russians for inaction and considered too much of a dove who was selling Russian interests compared to more hardliner factions. Perhaps the reason they were so cautious in not alienating too much by flaunting force against Azerbaijan, Turkey, Israel, etc. is all for a moment like this so they wouldn't be ganged up on (even without direct intervention - in terms of shipping advanced weaponry to Ukraine and such) when they need to act over an existential matter on their own border.

But I guess the 2014 Ukrainian coup d'etat, the role of foreign involvement, and the chance of it being converted into essentially a NATO FoB on the Russian border at any point in the future was just a bridge too far and a Russian national security red line. I don't think people have to go searching for any deeper meaning behind it other than what he explicitly said in his own words. I just didn't envision him waiting eight years to act on it and then proceeding in this manner (like from a certain perspective, this would have been more expected as an immediate reaction in the spring of 2014 or anytime closer to when Crimea was first taken), but it seems they gave eight years of the diplomatic game a chance alongside the slow burn eastern-based insurgency and decided it was getting them nowhere.

Could have been avoided by the decisions of various actors at so many different points in 2013 - 2014 (even before honestly, with all the money being poured into Ukraine) and at any point since - simple things like guarantee of Ukraine's neutrality similar to Austria, demilitarize and turn it into a neutral buffer state, but some people weren't interested in that, only wanted expansion in one direction and just told Russia they'll have to shut up, bend over, and take it basically and in so doing accept something they they themselves/their countries' leaderships' don't and would never accept were the situation reversed.

WatchTillTandavaFeb 23, 2022 9:00 PM
Feb 23, 2022 8:51 PM
#4

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It's an attack, aggression so to speak, airports being attacked and everything, I hope the Ukrainian people form militias and resist. Thankfully the American citizens are armed to the teeth, I completely change my view on having its citizens armed during these pasts days.
This world is too dangerous to let other nations invade us.

I think we are back to cold war-like days, total war mentality towards Russia from now on.
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.''
Feb 23, 2022 8:54 PM
#5

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100172
explosions are starting dang

Explosions were reported in cities throughout Ukraine early Thursday morning, signaling that a full-scale Russian invasion had begun. Here is a map tracking where attacks have been confirmed. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1496708700010344449
Feb 23, 2022 9:00 PM
#6
Cat Hater

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Americans are turning it into a partisan issue, as always. I'm not sure why conservative speakers like PJW or Tucker Carlson are defending Russia yet again. I understand if you don't want another pointless war, but saying that nothing can be done or that it is the right thing for Russia to do seems pretty insane to me. And hardcore communists also agree since when Russia or China are invading other countries, it is somehow okay.

And USA is just one fuck-up away from China launching a full-scale invasion on Taiwan, which will likely cause Japan to engage in a military conflict, so we will be next on the list.
Feb 23, 2022 9:06 PM
#7

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100172
stock market is down too ye i know the stock market is not linked with the economy for most cases but it can be a signal for high inflation in some cases so economic crisis will happen more if this goes on for so long

Stocks fell, with U.S. futures dropping more than 2%, after Russia invaded Ukraine, and oil topped $100 a barrel for the first time since 2014 https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1496711531966382082

and Putin has spoken

Russian President Vladimir Putin announces a military operation in Ukraine
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1496711845285187592

Feb 23, 2022 9:06 PM
#8

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Fate_Saber88 said:
It's an attack, aggression so to speak, airports being attacked and everything, I hope the Ukrainian people form militias and resist. Thankfully the American citizens are armed to the teeth, I completely change my view on having its citizens armed during these pasts days.
This world is too dangerous to let other nations invade us.

I think we are back to cold war-like days, total war mentality towards Russia from now on.


No one is invading the U.S. in the current international geopolitical reality any time in the foreseeable future and it has nothing to do with gun laws and whether citizens are armed or trained in firearms or not. It has a nuclear arsenal, a massive conventional armed forces (preeminent naval power and so on), is separated from any peer or near-peer power by the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, and is the fourth largest country in the world by land area.

People need to begin to understand there's a whole world of difference between nuclear weapons states being invaded and non-nuclear states being invaded - and for that matter, attacks on superpowers and great powers compared to relatively much weaker and non-independent countries.

149597871 said:
Americans are turning it into a partisan issue, as always. I'm not sure why conservative speakers like PJW or Tucker Carlson are defending Russia yet again. I understand if you don't want another pointless war, but saying that nothing can be done or that it is the right thing for Russia to do seems pretty insane to me.


It's the correct thing to do from the Russian national interest and national security standpoint. This isn't really a matter of partisan factions in U.S. domestic politics. People well-versed in studying Russia and managing U.S. relations with Russia have been sounding the alarm for literal decades that the policies being pursued in that region were deliberately and needlessly antagonistic to Russia and likely to result in this exact type of scenario which is playing out now. People like the last U.S. ambassador to the Soviet Union and experts in IR theory. It was just blatantly obvious that moves to try to expand NATO further into Georgia and Ukraine were going to be as peacefully received as an adversarial military alliance camping in Cuba, Mexico, or Canada would be received in Washington D.C. - i.e. a red line that war absolutely would be launched to disrupt/prevent.

You don't have to agree with Moscow's actions, but they're doing absolutely nothing any country in their position, that was physically able, including the U.S. and Britain, wouldn't likewise do (and demonstrated historically they would and will).

Obviously I don't want them to do anything to oppose the Russian intervention, but what is wrong with any person, Tucker Carlson or whomever, acknowledging that nothing realistically can be done in the sense of militarily opposing or preventing it at this point from Washington D.C.'s side? Even top U.S. officialdom of the Biden administration is acknowledging that explicitly and openly that the only thing that would actually have any chance of stopping it is a complete and total non-starter:

"Under no scenario will the United States send troops to Ukraine to fight with Russia" - The White House

https://twitter.com/UkrReport/status/1496606667793960965

And they've issued similar statements almost precisely like this so many times repeatedly and explicitly throughout the recent escalation of this conflict.

WatchTillTandavaFeb 23, 2022 9:32 PM
Feb 23, 2022 9:10 PM
#9

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The Russian military says it has targeted Ukrainian air bases and other military assets, but hasn't targeted populated areas. https://twitter.com/AP/status/1496710954146578437
Feb 23, 2022 9:14 PM

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WatchTillTandava said:
Fate_Saber88 said:
It's an attack, aggression so to speak, airports being attacked and everything, I hope the Ukrainian people form militias and resist. Thankfully the American citizens are armed to the teeth, I completely change my view on having its citizens armed during these pasts days.
This world is too dangerous to let other nations invade us.

I think we are back to cold war-like days, total war mentality towards Russia from now on.


No one is invading the U.S. in the current international geopolitical reality any time in the foreseeable future and it has nothing to do with gun laws and whether citizens are armed or trained in firearms or not. It has a nuclear arsenal, a massive conventional armed forces, is separated from any peer or near-peer power by the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, and is the fourth largest country in the world by land area.

People need to begin to understand there's a whole world of difference between nuclear weapons states being invaded and non-nuclear states being invaded - and for that matter, attacks on superpowers and great powers compared to relatively much weaker and non-independent countries.
We never know how the world geopolitics plays in the foreseeable future... Enough said, better safe than sorry, and ofc I know I'm under the comfort of nuclear power and massive military force, considering all my family members who serve or served this military force, I have faith in their word to protect this country. But for each one its own, and I prefer being prepared for any circumstances.
It doesn't hurt compulsory military training for the current generation, we need better fighters.
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.''
Feb 23, 2022 9:17 PM

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100172
Many people will die for no reason because of the unprovoked invasion by Putin of Ukraine, a sovereign nation. Russia has a weak economy. The U.S. and our allies will target Russia’s economy with sanctions, to create the same situation that caused the Soviet Union to collapse. https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1496713452471001089

looks like they will try to kill the economy of Russia instead of going to War
Feb 23, 2022 9:35 PM

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mwinner said:
Is there still a draft? I sure as hell don't want to fight in this dang conflict.


about that lol

Draft the unvaccinated. https://twitter.com/AngelaBelcamino/status/1496692777450713088
Feb 23, 2022 9:57 PM
Cat Hater

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@WatchTillTandava

Because you are not as invincible as you think you are. Once your allies in the Indo-Pacific and Europe abandon you, and you are left with a divided and demoralized population that is more likely to start shooting at each other than the enemy, it will be all over for you. These "salami-slicing" strategies employed by China and Russia are proven to work very effectively, and shouldn't be underestimated or justified. If you surrender Ukraine or Taiwan, or Japan, you are not "solving a problem," you are just giving the enemy an advantage and moving the point of conflict closer to your own territory.
Feb 23, 2022 10:20 PM

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149597871 said:
@WatchTillTandava

Because you are not as invincible as you think you are. Once your allies in the Indo-Pacific and Europe abandon you, and you are left with a divided and demoralized population that is more likely to start shooting at each other than the enemy, it will be all over for you. These "salami-slicing" strategies employed by China and Russia are proven to work very effectively, and shouldn't be underestimated or justified. If you surrender Ukraine or Taiwan, or Japan, you are not "solving a problem," you are just giving the enemy an advantage and moving the point of conflict closer to your own territory.


Ukraine shouldn't be something for the U.S. to "surrender" or not in the first place because the U.S. shouldn't be an overseas empire full stop. It shouldn't have had any role in bringing down the last Ukrainian government or propping up the new one. Unfortunately, while I understand full well what you're saying as it's an argument/way of thinking I've encountered many times before, I just completely disagree with it as I've been a vehement opponent of liberal-interventionism abroad and the entire concept and rationale behind maintenance and expansion of a U.S. overseas empire or any analogous imperial project (which is all ideologically and financially driven by a small clique and has nothing to do with the advancement of the interests of the U.S. as a country or betterment or welfare of its general population/quality of life/infrastructure/etc. at all) since forever (well, since as early as I could even form conscious political thought).

You refer to "the enemy", but in this case if Russia is an "enemy", then it's an enemy we would be choosing to have for no reason. The Soviet Union collapsed and underwent complete dissolution as a polity in December of 1991. As far as I'm concerned, far from expanding NATO further through Central Europe, into the Balkans, the Baltics, the rest of Eastern Europe and the Caucasus, NATO instead should have too dissolved right then and there by 1992.

Post-Soviet Russia never even had to be an enemy and everything I see it has done in the 30+ years since comes across as a completely defensive modus operandi of a weakened former superpower not wanting to be encircled by an expansionist superpower-led bloc. Russia was literally on its knees in the 1990s and under Yeltsin, such poverty, and internal disorganization. We could have extended a hand rather than put a knife to their throat but instead chose the latter (endless expansion, endless conquest) and the bellicose, warlike result was consequently wholly predictable.

Russia has not at all militarily attacked the U.S. or even countries historically part of the U.S.' sphere of influence like anything in the Americas or any NATO country in Europe. There is a reason this war is going on in Ukraine, on their border, on their doorstep, and not in Cuba or Mexico or any Caribbean or Latin American territory - because the expansion was only traveling in one direction, aimed and pointed at them, and not the other way around. Then they responded. The hypocrisy from some media talking heads and moralizing hand-wringing is just astounding on this issue.

I'm not some ultra-pacifist or naive, but nor do I believe countries are enemy countries who must be opposed at every turn even when operating in their own backyard just because they're basically not part of our own empire/under our control. It's an emerging multipolar world. Neither the U.S. nor Russia nor China nor their existing or emerging respective blocs are doing anything for some vague betterment of humanity or the world, but neither do any of those parties have to enter into a hot war with one another because their spheres need not overlap and interests can be delineated.
WatchTillTandavaFeb 23, 2022 10:24 PM
Feb 23, 2022 11:00 PM

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Russian PTSD from the 80s, Helicopter downed, probably by Stingers. And 5 jets , if true this is the most disastrous military air operation I've ever heard about.
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.''
Feb 23, 2022 11:02 PM
Cat Hater

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WatchTillTandava said:
149597871 said:
@WatchTillTandava

Because you are not as invincible as you think you are. Once your allies in the Indo-Pacific and Europe abandon you, and you are left with a divided and demoralized population that is more likely to start shooting at each other than the enemy, it will be all over for you. These "salami-slicing" strategies employed by China and Russia are proven to work very effectively, and shouldn't be underestimated or justified. If you surrender Ukraine or Taiwan, or Japan, you are not "solving a problem," you are just giving the enemy an advantage and moving the point of conflict closer to your own territory.


Ukraine shouldn't be something for the U.S. to "surrender" or not in the first place because the U.S. shouldn't be an overseas empire full stop. It shouldn't have had any role in bringing down the last Ukrainian government or propping up the new one. Unfortunately, while I understand full well what you're saying as it's an argument/way of thinking I've encountered many times before, I just completely disagree with it as I've been a vehement opponent of liberal-interventionism abroad and the entire concept and rationale behind maintenance and expansion of a U.S. overseas empire or any analogous imperial project (which is all ideologically and financially driven by a small clique and has nothing to do with the advancement of the interests of the U.S. as a country or betterment or welfare of its general population/quality of life/infrastructure/etc. at all) since forever (well, since as early as I could even form conscious political thought).

You refer to "the enemy", but in this case if Russia is an "enemy", then it's an enemy we would be choosing to have for no reason. The Soviet Union collapsed and underwent complete dissolution as a polity in December of 1991. As far as I'm concerned, far from expanding NATO further through Central Europe, into the Balkans, the Baltics, the rest of Eastern Europe and the Caucasus, NATO instead should have too dissolved right then and there by 1992.

Post-Soviet Russia never even had to be an enemy and everything I see it has done in the 30+ years since comes across as a completely defensive modus operandi of a weakened former superpower not wanting to be encircled by an expansionist superpower-led bloc. Russia was literally on its knees in the 1990s and under Yeltsin, such poverty, and internal disorganization. We could have extended a hand rather than put a knife to their throat but instead chose the latter (endless expansion, endless conquest) and the bellicose, warlike result was consequently wholly predictable.

Russia has not at all militarily attacked the U.S. or even countries historically part of the U.S.' sphere of influence like anything in the Americas or any NATO country in Europe. There is a reason this war is going on in Ukraine, on their border, on their doorstep, and not in Cuba or Mexico or any Caribbean or Latin American territory - because the expansion was only traveling in one direction, aimed and pointed at them, and not the other way around. Then they responded. The hypocrisy from some media talking heads and moralizing hand-wringing is just astounding on this issue.

I'm not some ultra-pacifist or naive, but nor do I believe countries are enemy countries who must be opposed at every turn even when operating in their own backyard just because they're basically not part of our own empire/under our control. It's an emerging multipolar world. Neither the U.S. nor Russia nor China nor their existing or emerging respective blocs are doing anything for some vague betterment of humanity or the world, but neither do any of those parties have to enter into a hot war with one another because their spheres need not overlap and interests can be delineated.


That seems like very dangerous and utopian thinking to me. The whole idea that a superpower the size and strength of Russia can be anything other than an enemy, that is. China was on its knees as well, and you and your allies chose to "extend a hand." Did that help you in the long run? Now they are even a bigger threat than Russia thanks to that.

Of course, I don't advocate you go to a hot war with them, but ultimately, there will never be absolute peace with three such superpowers at play. One of those countries will be an "empire," and if it is not the US, then there are two choices left. That whole narrative that the US is the aggressor trying to conquer the world, while China and Russia are the innocent victims and just playing defensively seems like either utopian thinking or is straight up disinformation. It is obvious that a slight change in the power balance like the one we see in recent years can reverse the roles in no time.


Feb 23, 2022 11:47 PM

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149597871 said:
That seems like very dangerous and utopian thinking to me. The whole idea that a superpower the size and strength of Russia can be anything other than an enemy, that is. China was on its knees as well, and you and your allies chose to "extend a hand." Did that help you in the long run? Now they are even a bigger threat than Russia thanks to that.

Of course, I don't advocate you go to a hot war with them, but ultimately, there will never be absolute peace with three such superpowers at play. One of those countries will be an "empire," and if it is not the US, then there are two choices left. That whole narrative that the US is the aggressor trying to conquer the world, while China and Russia are the innocent victims and just playing defensively seems like either utopian thinking or is straight up disinformation. It is obvious that a slight change in the power balance like the one we see in recent years can reverse the roles in no time.


Technically, many would dispute and I don't consider Russia and China superpowers. They are great powers and world powers most definitely, but the superpower title was only ever traditionally conferred on the Soviet Union and the U.S. (except during that brief window post-Cold War in the 90s until about 9/11/the 2001-timeframe when the U.S. was actually upgraded to a hyperpower). But ultimately it's a subjective distinction that, as with everything else in geopolitics, is a contentious and unsettled debate.

It isn't about the U.S. being a country uniquely capable of aggression or that Russia or China are somehow more inherently benevolent or capable or selfless charitable action or anything like that. Virtually every single country in the entirety of recorded history which had any capability and land/resources of note to speak of at some point conquered and oppressed others and was itself conquered and oppressed. The former is how the majority of modern nation-states came into existence in the first place. Russia is no exception, China is no exception, and the U.S. is no exception.

But my point is when you list those three countries and imply that due to their military power/size/influence that one will be an "empire", this is where I'd disagree. Define empire. Empire doesn't have to mean total or near-total world domination. Yet there are some influential ideologists that started cropping up in think-thanks especially in the 90s and 2000s through to today which think this. They believe and espouse the U.S. has to realize "full spectrum global dominance" (i.e. world domination), speak of the "Project for a New American Century", etc. and present all this precisely in such language and these terms.

I would say that it's almost inevitable in line with human nature that any countries like those big three are going to go on to have spheres of influence, but that doesn't necessitate expansionist empires or trying to colonize or carve up one another's own neighborhood and backyard. Is Ukraine in Russia's backyard or the U.S.'? When the U.S.' own backyard was similarly threatened vis-a-vis Cuba in 1962 under the Kennedy administration, did it sit idly and passively, meekly by? It's not about being utopian, but about having some honesty and avoiding hypocrisy. Presenting this conflict to the American public as if Russia is somehow behaving in a way that the U.S. wouldn't when faced with a similar situation in its own neighborhood is just dishonest and false. Of course, selective blinders/selective thinking, hypocrisy, and such are all rife in politics and everyday life both and facts of life, but that doesn't mean one should enable or support its flourishing when it can be so easily and blatantly identified.

The point as well about conquering the world - The fact of the matter is, I'm absolutely 100% against any country and its accompanying political system - I don't care if it's liberal-capitalism, Marxian socialism, Islamism, theocratic Christianity like in the Crusader era, absolute monarchy, anarcho-syndicalism - whatever, either dominating the world and forcibly imposing its worldview and system on the entire planet and humanity by force of arms or even being in a position to realistically have a shot at doing such. That goes for the U.S., Russia, China, and every single other country on Earth. Therefore, to this end, I'd rather see the juggernauts and their blocs balance each other out as it's the best and most assured way of preventing any one force from becoming too powerful and enacting unipolar hegemony. Because then no one who disagrees with it and their system will have anywhere to escape except space. So I'd rather Earth be divided in perpetuity because humans have proven they can't be trusted not to force their ideas/interests/values/way of life/ideology/worldview/etc. down each others' throat at gunpoint.
WatchTillTandavaFeb 23, 2022 11:54 PM
Feb 24, 2022 12:17 AM
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Sanctions are not enough. He stole part of Georgia, no one cared. Georgia even had to go on top gear when they visited to help bring awareness. The Russians were lifting up the border fence and moving 100-200m every night because they weren't satisfied with the 20% of Georgia they had already stolen.

Now he's stealing part of Ukraine.
The west needs to offer sub and air support. Long range missiles will drive them back.
Feb 24, 2022 12:22 AM

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Just woke up and so far from the info given here I can tell you except for bombardemnt which all had already said, the troops has already breached the borders of Ukraine, many tanks or military vehicle which I don't know anymore how to call hav the "Z" markings on sides as yesterday in Russia it was called "Operation Z" which is the invasion. From 3-4 hours the roads from Kyiv and alot of cities are blocked/in traffic, making in the same time countless of accidents and potential next deaths on road. If you wonder how far to the west they've made their airstrike, there are already air sirens in Lviv which is the furthest big city on west (close to polish border) but there are no info yet about airstrikes on Lviv yet, at least inside the polish internet.
Feb 24, 2022 12:48 AM

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Good day to live in a country bordering Russia that isn't part of NATO.
Feb 24, 2022 1:20 AM

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3110
Sigh yet again a war where two bigger countries are going at each other and smaller countries get all the hits. Read on news Ukraine reported 7 dead and 9 hurt from attacks in Ukraine. I hope EU countries and other European countries show their support to Ukraine in other ways than just empty words. I'm also sad that I know any sanctions put on Russia will hit the hardest on normal citizens who are in vulnerable position aka poor, and those who actually need to be fucked over won't be affected. We'll see how it goes in Russia since opposition is encouraging people to go on streets for demonstrations.
konkeloFeb 24, 2022 1:29 AM
Feb 24, 2022 1:26 AM

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Feb 2022
813
Russia just demanded the de-nazification of a country that has a Jewish president and where the combined Far-Right got 2.00% of votes so they couldn't have a seat in power at all.

https://www.businessinsider.nl/putin-tried-to-justify-his-war-against-ukraine-by-calling-for-the-de-nazification-of-a-democratic-country-led-by-a-jewish-president/

Anyway the Annexation of Ukraine will result in the following steps by the West:

1 We are concerned
2 We are deeply concerned
3 We are gravely concerned
4 There must be answers
5 There will be consequences
6 It is important to engage with Russia
7 We should separate this from commercial issues
LoliAnchormanFeb 24, 2022 1:31 AM
Die like you did by the lake on Naboo.
Feb 24, 2022 2:24 AM

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@Zettaiken
@Mirai

stay safe you two
Feb 24, 2022 2:47 AM

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From Joe Biden:

President Zelenskyy reached out to me tonight and we just finished speaking. I condemned this unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces. I briefed him on the steps we are taking to rally international condemnation, including tonight at the UN Security Council.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1496716481652043776

From Boris Johnson:

This is a catastrophe for our continent.

I will make an address to the nation this morning on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I will also speak to fellow G7 leaders and I am calling for an urgent meeting of all NATO leaders as soon as possible.

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1496784638584360961

Translation of Emmanuel Macron's tweets:
France firmly condemns the decision of Russia to wage war to Ukraine. Russia needs to end immediately its military operations.

France stands together Ukraine. It is standing next to Ukrainians and asks with its partners and allies to stop the war.

https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1496740133965553664

Interesting map:



https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1496772570988875778

deg said:
@Zettaiken
@Mirai

stay safe you two

Don't worry deg, Russia is nothing close to invading Poland and it is nigh-on impossible that it ever invades Switzerland (!).
MeusnierFeb 24, 2022 3:03 AM
Feb 24, 2022 2:50 AM

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Meusnier said:
deg said:
@Zettaiken
@Mirai

stay safe you two

Don't worry deg, Russia is nothing close to invading Poland and it is nigh-on impossible that it ever invades Switzerland (!).


hopefully im just thinking of a slippery slope situation and we know slippery slope thinking is not always correct
Feb 24, 2022 3:56 AM

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deg said:
Meusnier said:

Don't worry deg, Russia is nothing close to invading Poland and it is nigh-on impossible that it ever invades Switzerland (!).


hopefully im just thinking of a slippery slope situation and we know slippery slope thinking is not always correct
Compared to what lead to these attacks there hasn't been any military activity close to other bordering nations. So at least now it's unlikely scenario, and if any country would get involved in the war at the moment it would most likely be Belarus. But Lukashenko has claimed Belarus' military has no part in the attacks.
Feb 24, 2022 4:10 AM

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deg said:
Meusnier said:

Don't worry deg, Russia is nothing close to invading Poland and it is nigh-on impossible that it ever invades Switzerland (!).


hopefully im just thinking of a slippery slope situation and we know slippery slope thinking is not always correct


I doubt he's gonna go after any other countries until he's done with Ukraine. And by then who knows maybe Russia will be surrounded by even more NATO countries. At the very least Finland joining NATO seems much more likely right now.
Feb 24, 2022 4:22 AM

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https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/1493960598123687942

This aged well.

Mirai said:
At the very least Finland joining NATO seems much more likely right now.
You beat the Soviet Union and then had a stalemate. You don't need NATO.
Die like you did by the lake on Naboo.
Feb 24, 2022 4:37 AM

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813
"If you say 'Give up on Ukraine' we cannot, because we have really good relations with them right now. If you say 'Give up on Russia' we cannot give up on them either, because we also have really good relations with them too."

https://www.dw.com/tr/erdo%C4%9Fan-ne-rusyadan-ne-de-ukraynadan-vazge%C3%A7eriz/a-60886805

100.000.000 IQ moment.

ALSO:

Live UA Map is kill.
Die like you did by the lake on Naboo.
Feb 24, 2022 4:51 AM

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Guess the meme of going to Portugal is gonna be real for more people now. Putin's expansionism was not easy to avoid tho. Like China. Because the two developed later than western countries so arrived later at imperialism.



Leading biologist Scott Pitnick said:
The bigger your 'nads, the smaller your brains
Feb 24, 2022 4:57 AM

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Bakchos said:
Guess the meme of going to Portugal is gonna be real for more people now. Putin's expansionism was not easy to avoid tho. Like China. Because the two developed later than western countries so arrived later at imperialism.


They arrived late to industrialism, Russia and China were not late to imperialism.
Feb 24, 2022 5:04 AM
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deg said:
Meusnier said:

Don't worry deg, Russia is nothing close to invading Poland and it is nigh-on impossible that it ever invades Switzerland (!).


hopefully im just thinking of a slippery slope situation and we know slippery slope thinking is not always correct


It is not, but after getting away with the incidents in Georgia, Kazakhstan, and now Ukraine, it will be far more likely for Russia to make bold moves on other countries than ever before. Not sure why so many people fail to understand that and think that Putin is only interested in some Ukrainian land and after it is over, the world will be sunshines and rainbows.
Feb 24, 2022 5:09 AM

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RuneRem said:
Bakchos said:
Guess the meme of going to Portugal is gonna be real for more people now. Putin's expansionism was not easy to avoid tho. Like China. Because the two developed later than western countries so arrived later at imperialism.


They arrived late to industrialism, Russia and China were not late to imperialism.

Welp they want to expand and take resources now. The two were feudal when western Europe was doing that. When you industrialize you go imperialism to get more resources. What the two want to do now.



Leading biologist Scott Pitnick said:
The bigger your 'nads, the smaller your brains
Feb 24, 2022 5:24 AM

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I just hope the russian army doesn't get lost, I wouldn't wanna see them in romania
Feb 24, 2022 7:00 AM

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Russia is not crazy, invading a NATO country is certain WW3, they can't win that nobody will.

Anyway



Many videos of Russian tanks completely f***d, ofc I doubt Ukraine can win it but they are gonna cause damage, a lot of damage... Force Ukraine and hope an organized resistance takes place to wear down the Russian forces on its own backyard.

Fate_Saber88Feb 24, 2022 8:13 AM
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.''
Feb 24, 2022 8:40 AM
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Now it is a good time to live in a banana republic tbh.
inactive
Feb 24, 2022 8:50 AM

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Not 100% sure if this is legit but pretty wild if it is.
fuck everything and rumble
Feb 24, 2022 8:59 AM

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Came back from university so can add some few information:

There is a protests at St. Petersburg, not sure (didn't get information) about protests and maybe soon riots in other bigger cities of Russia.

Belarus has shot 4 missiles into Ukraine.

In Kyiev 4 metro station right now are destined as a shelters for civilians.

Since afternoon till now the queque for Ukrainian refugees at Polish border is huge (it was 1 hour on foot and 5 hour by cars) and are huge queques on gas stations and local stores, Orlen is informing that there will be enough of fuel and gas for incoming cars and vehicles from Ukraine.

CNN was saying that Russian invasion is a test for a larger invasion in near future we'll see.

Russian forces has taken by force the airpoirt in Kyiev as President of Ukraine has informed.

In some places Ukrainian forces are defending very well in some others it is opposite, it is hard to clarify where as there are hundreds of fake news (just to be clear each soldier from Russia or Ukraine has their phones so they can post whatever they like in twitter etc. to share misleading information)

Russians began to shot not only military places but also civilian places according to information from few places as Mariupol and from previous "accident" where one of the flats (typical slavic buildings) was hit by one of the rockets.

Lotva has stopped giving Visas to Russian people cause of the invasion.

There is also a protest in Kraków in front of Russian Embassy (I know not very related but thsoe people living there can't do much from abroad)

Russian forces were trying to take over the nuclear facility in Chernobyl, no information if Ukrainian forces were able to defend that place to prevent the repetition of the past tragedy from 1986

The Javelin rocket system were able to destroy a column of 15 russian T-72 close to Głuchowo (Idk how to write this place in english)

Belarusians who live close to Ukraine border (Hlubokae) reports alot of military vehicles with no plates and gunshots coming from their sides, some are preparing to leave and packing themselfs.

All information gathered from this site: https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/wojna-rosja-ukraina-trwa-atak-walki-o-elektrownie-w-czarnobylu-relacja/rm1z5zs
ZettaikenFeb 24, 2022 9:03 AM
Feb 24, 2022 9:07 AM

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Pretty sure Belarus is going to be involved in support of Russia, or else why hold joint military drills this month.

Don't expect this to boil into WW3 and no matter what claims Russia or USA says, Ukraine as a country was to have the ability to self-determine its own future (basic principle of freedom) and an invasion removes that agency. Russia is playing a old play book, where you take a little at a time-- wonder if they will continue northward (Estonia etc) in the far future and if there will be a "Poland moment".

If Russia's ally China decides to move on Taiwan, then we will know how far their ties went into plotting together, in or out of sync. That may even be a catalyst to WW.
Even if none of that happens, this was the logical step for Russia to make, if even to test out things.
"In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one"
Feb 24, 2022 9:12 AM

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Man, I had just finished using a keyword generator on Putin's speech to replace Ukraine with Cuba. They are planning attacks on Guantanamo and it is basically another Shoah what they are doing to English speakers there. If they want decapatilization they will get decapatilization. We need a list with every komrades name. Cuba actually has no history of statehood and was once basically apart of Florida. The US needs to amass the largest amphibious and naval force ever seen around Cuba because Russia is moving hypersonic missiles there as we speak. It's time to reunite the Cuban diaspora, Brandon and end the Russian coup.
Feb 24, 2022 9:17 AM
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Boris had a speech where he refused to call putin by name. He called him "the russian dictator".

It's pissed everyone off here, the left and right are saying the same thing and that's unheard of.
Feb 24, 2022 9:18 AM

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https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1496886660440932352

Germany, Hungary, Cyprus, and Italy blocked kicking Russia out of SWIFT Network.
Die like you did by the lake on Naboo.
Feb 24, 2022 9:27 AM

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Some news on the war

Kyiv Post
Kyiv imposes curfew from 22:00 to 7:00, transport not to work at this time
By Interfax.
Published Feb. 24 at 6:14 pm
In Kyiv, a curfew is introduced from 22:00 to 7:00, public transport will not work at this time, said mayor of the capital Vitali Klitschko on Feb. 24.
“Friends! Kyiv is introducing a curfew from today. It will operate from 22:00 to 7:00. This is a forced step, but in the current conditions of military aggression and martial law, necessary for the safety of the residents of the capital,” he wrote on his Telegram channel.
He added that public transport would not operate during the curfew.


BBC
...
Deaths reported
About 10 civilians are believed to have been killed, including six in an air strike in Brovary near the capital Kyiv. A man was also killed in shelling outside the major eastern city of Kharkiv.

A Ukrainian presidential adviser said that more than 40 soldiers had died and dozens more were wounded. Ukraine said it had killed 50 Russian troops.

Ukraine is fighting back
The Ukrainian armed forces said they had shot down five Russian planes and a helicopter - which Russia denies - and inflicted casualties on invading troops.

But later on Thursday President Zelensky said Ukraine had suffered losses and a lot of aircraft and armoured vehicles had been destroyed.

Russia said it has destroyed more than 70 military targets in Ukraine.

Much of the fighting appears to be centred around the east of the country. But clashes have also been taking place around Kyiv and the Black Sea port cities of Odesa and Mariupol.

Ukraine has declared martial law - which means the military takes control temporarily. It has cut diplomatic ties with Russia, offered weapons to anyone who wants them and declared an overnight curfew for Kyiv.

Meanwhile Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba implored the world to impose devastating sanctions, including banning Russia from the international Swift bank transfer system


Here's also report by Reuters on Ukrainian refugees and Ukraine's neighboring countries reaction to the situation

Russian news that I have read have not mentioned death tolls. But here's message from Roskomnadzor(Роскомнадзор). Basically media outlets in Russia can only use material for their news from certified Russian sources, and if otherwise they may end up to pay fine of 5 million rubles.
konkeloFeb 24, 2022 9:37 AM
Feb 24, 2022 9:51 AM

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813
Zettaiken said:

Russian forces were trying to take over the nuclear facility in Chernobyl, no information if Ukrainian forces were able to defend that place to prevent the repetition of the past tragedy from 1986
Captured
https://news.yahoo.com/chernobyl-power-plant-captured-russian-173405439.html

This means...Putin has the artifacts...

Die like you did by the lake on Naboo.
Feb 24, 2022 9:55 AM

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My thread about this was deleted, not even locked. Guess just stating some facts is enough to offend some of the spineless moderators in this community, what a joke.
Feb 24, 2022 10:02 AM

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2764
Russian police detains hundreds in anti-war, pro-Ukraine protests
Anti-war protests have taken place in 40 different Russian cities on Thursday.

Russian police have on Thursday made 705 arrests as citizens all across Russia protested against president Vladimir Putin's decision to invade Ukraine, the OVD-Info protest monitor said.

Anti-war protests have taken place in 40 different Russian cities on Thursday, according to OVD-Info.

Footage of protests in Putin's hometown city of St. Petersburg also surfaced on social media on Thursday.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-698546
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.''
Feb 24, 2022 10:35 AM

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Feb 2022
813
Biden Speech on Ukraine
Die like you did by the lake on Naboo.
Feb 24, 2022 11:15 AM

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100172
ye Biden and the West might be smart to just go for the long game with the sanctions but why Biden did not answer the question about should he directly sanction Putin? isnt that a more effective way with dealing with him? so why not sanction Putin directly?

anyway this war will cost a lot of money for Russia so they are imploding their economy with this one

also

Russians Who Speak Out Against the War Are Getting Arrested
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-try-to-protest-the-war-in-ukraine-and-get-promptly-arrested
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