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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Wow that was totally messed up. Yoko slept with her father to compensate for her mother being sick and unable to please her husband. Yoko gets preggos and has Kanako. Amemiya, Yoko's glasses b/f, wants to become a good father and wishes to bring Kanako everywhere when she gets over her sickness. His dedication turns into infatuation though. To the point where he asks for her arm and any other body parts to be preserved from her train accident at the beginning. He finds out that Yoko's father, the doctor, also preserved Kanako's head which, indecently can still talk thanks to the doctors invention, and he steals it....the rest all pieces together nicely. I feel bad for Kiba, he really liked Yoko. You can see him crying as he hand cuffs her and reads her charges. Must have really sucked to find out the chick you loved had a kid with her own dad and then stabs you in the chest and runs off with him. |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| Funny how this entire show could have actually been good had it been condensed into a two-ep OVA. Gorgeous art, shitty almost everything else. The characters were so one-dimensional it hurt. They tried so hard to make everything DEEPU and mysterious that 90% of the show turned into irrelevant monologuing. Not to mention huge plot points that don't make sense, at all. Protip: "This separated head can talk because of SCIENCE!!" is not actually an explanation, it's a cop-out. By the end, none of the supposed 'twists' were surprising anymore, and even if they had been, I couldn't have given less of a shit. So Yoko is in love with her dad? Alright, why should that have any emotional impact on me, whatsoever? If the art wasn't so pretty I'd have rated this far lower than 4/10. |
DeathfireD said: I LOLED.Wow that was totally messed up. Yoko slept with her father to compensate for her mother being sick and unable to please her husband. Yoko gets preggos and has Kanako. Amemiya, Yoko's glasses b/f, wants to become a good father and wishes to bring Kanako everywhere when she gets over her sickness. His dedication turns into infatuation though. To the point where he asks for her arm and any other body parts to be preserved from her train accident at the beginning. He finds out that Yoko's father, the doctor, also preserved Kanako's head which, indecently can still talk thanks to the doctors invention, and he steals it....the rest all pieces together nicely. I feel bad for Kiba, he really liked Yoko. You can see him crying as he hand cuffs her and reads her charges. Must have really sucked to find out the chick you loved had a kid with her own dad and then stabs you in the chest and runs off with him. |
 "A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
| So...Kanako is still alive ? Or is she dead ? That guy said something about a men who carried everywhere with him a box. Inside that box he saw nothing more than a piece of black,dried flesh. Does that mean that Kanako's head eventually died and it continued to decay inside that box ? |
Don't talk to me about character development if Kaizuka Inaho or Slaine Troyard are in your favorites. |
SailorKagome said: So...Kanako is still alive ? Or is she dead ? That guy said something about a men who carried everywhere with him a box. Inside that box he saw nothing more than a piece of black,dried flesh. Does that mean that Kanako's head eventually died and it continued to decay inside that box ? If Kanako was ever even alive after the operation is left to our imagination. In the end she was a comatose lump of flesh, the only thing still working was her brain. When Kubo saw her head in the box on that trainride, I assumed that what we saw from Kanako was already only minor facial reflexes by the electric shocks that went through her and kept her blood pumping for a while. Of course if you want to go the mystical way, then Kanako was of course alive (more beautiful than ever)...but that was, as far as I'm concerned, only in Amemiya's head where he wanted to stay a family with Kanako forever. He even failed to see how Kanako kept rotting away and turned into nothing more than dried up flesh. That's the irony in the end, that Amemiya turned into such a lunatic, yet Sekiguchi, and I think many viewers too, were still envious how he was so totally happy with what he got. QuothTheRaven said: Funny how this entire show could have actually been good had it been condensed into a two-ep OVA. Well, I don't know but I have no idea how they could have condensed the 1050 pages source novel even further without loosing everything in the process. If it didn't work out for you that's okay, but I found the characters quite well evolved. Of course many of them (especially Sekiguchi) lack the depth that they get over the novel's course, but in the end it was a murder mystery and we weren't meant to know too much about them, so we could keep guessing what's going on. They tried so hard to make everything DEEPU and mysterious that 90% of the show turned into irrelevant monologuing. Well, some see it as irrelevant monologuing, I see it as building up the theme of the story. It was all about the space in time (Japan around the 20's till the 50's) where science and legends mixed and formed both wonders and horrors. Many of the monologues served to flesh out how people felt about the world changing and how the old beliefs in religion, demons and ghosts held them back from fully embracing technology. I mean your point Not to mention huge plot points that don't make sense, at all. Protip: "This separated head can talk because of SCIENCE!!" is not actually an explanation, it's a cop-out. makes sense if you take things at face value, but many of the things in MnH happened from a very personal viewpoint. Like I already said, it's not sure wether Kanako was really alive at all at least after her head was taken away. Ah well, that was one thing that I found a bit distracting in the anime, because originally Kanako was in the same shape in that box as Kubo in the end...meaning everything above her stomach, except her arms, was still there...I think they changed that because the box would have been to big and it would have looked ridiculous on Amemiyas lap. There are some things that work written that don't work on screen. In the end it was a story how a group of people who still believed in the supernatural was drawn into such a tragedy by something simple as an experiment on life support. |
Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| I have to admit that I didn't know it was based on a novel, though that does explain some things, and I can see how the entire story could work FAR better when it's a long novel. As it was, I felt as if the show couldn't quite decide whether it wanted to be supernatural horror, a drama or a murder mystery, which resulted in it not succeeding at any of those. Well, some see it as irrelevant monologuing, I see it as building up the theme of the story. To me, there was absolutely no substance in it, so it didn't succeed in any theme-building either. But again, that's possibly something that could have worked with me had I been reading the novel, but as it was I found it far too slow, and far too shallow to interest me. we weren't meant to know too much about them, so we could keep guessing what's going on. That's, once more, a cop-out to me. If you don't have rich, multi-layered characters, then you better make sure your plot is one that can draw people in. And I basically spent 12 episodes--minus the first moonlight-dancing ep--watching a bunch of cardboard cutouts stumble around in the dark, what little progress they ever made mostly done through out-of-the-blue revelations. It's lazy, incredibly unsatisfying storytelling. I couldn't bring myself to care about any of the characters, much less about the case they were trying to solve. A 1000-page novel can't be done justice with a 13-ep show, man. YMMV. |
| I am so lost, I need either to read that novel or re-watch all 13 episodes |
| Quite an interesting explanation as to the whole mystery. I always knew there was something fishy about Yoko. |
| MY GOD, THAT WAS SOOOO DEEP! 4.5/10 |
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| I loved it. It kept me guessing the entire way through... I even went back and re-read some of my "predictions" in previous threads, LOL HOW WRONG I WAS ABOUT NEARLY EVERYTHING! For those still with questions, I found this article http://www.iwanihana.info/2009/10/21/book-mouryou-no-hako/ on the source novel to be extremely helpful in clarifying some elements (e.g., Chuuzenji's power of words). |
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| Character development in this series was sacrificed in order to get the story going for 13 episodes. The initial idea of the story and the way it was told was interesting enough but in the end it didn't become the masterpiece it could have been. Characters are one dimensional and their connections were too vague. It actually was trying too hard to be mysterious that it missed the chance to create well developed characters that you actually feel about or connect to. As a result all the final revelations ended up being bunch of info that we'd known beforehand or new info that we didn't care about that much. I have no idea how the novels are but this anime failed to impress me as much as I hoped it could. |
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| I guess I could have predicted none of that based on the information I gathered from all the other episodes. Oh well it was an interesting show but it got really confusing then the whole two episode explanation at the end put it all together. The only characters I liked were Kiba and Yoriko (because of those cute braids I think), anyway the explanation episodes in the middle were kind of interesting but then it kind of seemed like it was just a lot of talking, they didn't really develop the characters after the first couple episodes and it all seemed like it was sacrificed for the explanations that for me barely helped out with the conclusions at the end. Good anime but a bit confusing. |
| Really interesting ending, took waaay too long to get there. I'm glad I didn't drop it though. |
| Ok. I watched it all, but still slightly confused.(srry) But what this is saying is...1.Kanako /was/ alive and had a living human body (and that her mother was her "sister" who slept with her dad) but was pushed into the train tracks by her friend Yuriko? and the her "guardian" wanted to keep her head so instead of trying to save Kanako, they chopped her up and put her head into an electrically charged box? XD The heck?! And cause of that Yuriko died too? by the hands of someone...who was related to this how? Everyone in this series was obsessed with BOXES! |
| ANIME FEVER FOREVER! ^.~ |
| I finally came to understand the whole series! It's worth rewatching it again. It was a good series imo, the series is executed differently than the usual mystery series. The animation was superb. But the one thing I would have liked to see would be an actual ritual of the onmyouji... >> |
| The incest part saved the series for me. 7/10 |
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| One aspect of the plot that was left unresolved-- and justifiably so given how Kanako died early on-- was her claims that she and Yoriko would be reincarnated as each other. I interperet this as-- and someone please confirm or correct this-- that Kanako knew she and Yoriko would end up as "human-machines": barring their disembodied heads they had lost their physical bodies, leaving them with only their minds and as Kanako felt she and Yoriko had the same mentality then they were now hence the same entity. My reasoning is clearly a bit flawed and I also make the assumption that Kanako had clairvoyance. The other thing that was unclear-- at least to me-- was Yoko being charged with murder: who did she kill? Does Kubo count after he murdered Mimasaka? Or was it actually her that killed Mimasaka and she made the lame attempt of framing Kubo? Unless it was the fansubbers making an error and she was actually being charged for the ATTEMPTED murder of Kiba, but it was obviously she wasn't intending to kill him... |
| Enjoyable, but in the end some doubts remain. The pace is slow and the characters dont stand out. However, the animation aspect was good and it had some interesting moments. overall 7/10 for me. |
PreFuturism-0 said: The other thing that was unclear-- at least to me-- was Yoko being charged with murder: who did she kill? Does Kubo count after he murdered Mimasaka? That's what she's charged with. The assault on Kiba could probably be ignored because of the surreality of the case anyway and the fact he has feelings for her so he wouldn't bring it up. She did lie to the Kiba as well though (ransom), but again I think they'd hide that from the trial as well. So basically, even if someone kills your entire family, and you kill that person, you'll be charged for murder. Revenge doesn't bypass the laws, and I'm pretty sure that was already the case in the 50s in Japan. But don't worry as she's simply a fictional father-obsessed woman, she'd get the lightest charge as well due to the circumstances (besides also trying to flee from arrest with her old man). There are many reasons as to why she could also be arrested for like you've stated, but it's for the murder here. Besides that, excellent anime, I was expecting something else but got a great watch instead so 9/10. The box being the body reminded me of a Franken Fran chapter, didn't expect to see the idea (it's been in med-fiction for quite a while anyway) used here at all. Even if the box was laid bare, the directing would make you focus on what 'was important' (like the disappearance, murder of the one who took the head, etc) at the moment and when marathoning a series I didn't get the chance to think of the place enough. So pace-wise they did a good job (maybe the 'around the table' discussion scenes were too long, but I don't have ADD issues). Wasn't actually too keen on the supernatural aspect, but they've used it well. The music although not notable on it's own was fitting. Visually nothing to dislike, and quite liked the 'illusion' setting for the scene where Kiba punched Mimasaka towards the end. The start of episode 1 completely fooled me though, due to it purposefully placing the wrong 2 characters. Madhouse had done a great job, yet again. |
HakoriaDec 8, 2012 6:25 PM
「Godspeed You! Black Emperor」 |
| Boy, my predictions were all wrong. Beautiful Yoko-san actually slept with her father and had Kanako and then she married the rich guy. Quite a villanous lady. I feel sorry for poor detective Kiba. An excellent series with beautiful art. I think they could have had a bit less of the Kyobodou lectures in the middle to improve things a bit. Other than that top notch stuff. BTW, is there a bonus chapter somewhere? I keep on seeing an episode 14 in some links. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| 3/10. Honestly, I had great hopes in the beginning but the pace and confusing plot kinda staggered me off on that road of a pleasant experience. I'm probably not going to remember this series for long.. |
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| Amazing storyline , totally defeated my predictions. First few episodes were like wtf but it started to pick up. I noticed a lot of red herring but it's all good. |
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| Oh Japan, you and your incest.. I don't really know what to make of this series. For a horror murder mystery, it sure had a lot of nonchalant and casual talking. Just sitting and talking. For a series that markets itself on suspense, it sure was boring. I think I would have liked it better if the language barrier wasn't there. And I had a background in Japanese mythology/culture. Because a lot of things probably went right over my head. I liked the soundtrack. Visuals were nice. Had some cool bits I guess. Story was wat. Characters were really boring and unmemorable. I'd probably have to rewatch it to actually have a complete understanding of everything, or even remember people's names, but I really don't want to put myself through that. I'm glad I'm done with this show. 5/10 |
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| Was somewhat confused for the majority of episodes but on a whole it was pretty enjoyable. Chuuzenji seems like he has the answer to all of life's problems, he was a cool guy. The ending revelations were pretty grim, but I guess from reading the premise, this wasn't going to be a happy tale. I'll do some reading up anyway but I'm still a little unsure as to what the last scene meant with Sekiguchi and the train. Quite a lot of his delusion-like scenes confused me actually. Was it just his mind clashing with the stories of his novels or something? |
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| Great show |
| Great ending. |
| A true man never dies. |
| Man if I had to wait week by week for this show I would've dropped it but by the end, all the scenes in the earlier episodes fall into place. Probably the reason why most people found it confusing was because of the non-chronological order of events. Eno seemed to understand everything Kyougokudo wanted to do and helped tremendously. Never read the novel but he seemed to be elaborated more based on a comment above. |
ＲＥＡＬＩＴＹ ＩＳ Ａ ＣＲＡＰＰＹ ＧＡＭＥ  |
Red_Keys said: I don't really know what to make of this series. For a horror murder mystery, it sure had a lot of nonchalant and casual talking. Just sitting and talking. For a series that markets itself on suspense, it sure was boring. I think I would have liked it better if the language barrier wasn't there. And I had a background in Japanese mythology/culture. Because a lot of things probably went right over my head. 5/10 Would have to agree with this, also I dont know jack about Japanese mythology. Still the ending saved the show a bit for me, good explanation. Doubt I'll remember this show in a few weeks, the characters werent interesting. The way of telling the show was alright though, pretty clever. 6/10 |
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| I actually liked the Japanese mythology they included here, even if it didn't end up being incredibly pragmatic in the end. The positioning of that monologue up next to the focus on technology and science in this section was interesting. As said though, it wasn't the finest execution as a novel adaption, but I appreciated the effort nonetheless. |
| That was rather, impressive. :o This is exactly the type of series that gets better when rewatched, though I admit to snoozing off during the table convo. It's interesting how they covered everything up to the lore of mouryou. Heta-rashi1 said: I am not very sure about everything but I'll try to answer based on what I understood.Ok. I watched it all, but still slightly confused.(srry) But what this is saying is...1.Kanako /was/ alive and had a living human body (and that her mother was her "sister" who slept with her dad) but was pushed into the train tracks by her friend Yuriko? and the her "guardian" wanted to keep her head so instead of trying to save Kanako, they chopped her up and put her head into an electrically charged box? XD The heck?! And cause of that Yuriko died too? by the hands of someone...who was related to this how? Everyone in this series was obsessed with BOXES! 1. Yes, it was assumed that Yuriko was the one who pushed Kanako off the rail track. Kanako was in critical condition and her body could no longer support her life, therefore they had to move her brain and give her an artificial body in order to keep her alive. Her limbs were not needed to keep her alive, but Amemiya wanted to keep her body parts with him, because he loved her. (the obsessive type of love) I think somewhere down the road, Amemiya dropped the limbs of Kanako in an accident, and that was the first of "dismembered body parts" case. The body parts were Kanako's, and they weren't in a box. After that, the writer, Kubo came across Amemiya, who was escaping (or elope) to his "utopia" with his loved one, Kanako's head, who was supposedly kept alive in that box. Kubo developed an interest in a living head inside a box, after he saw a living Kanako head inside the box, and then he began the killing of all the victims. He tried putting them into a box, but they were not alive. Yuriko was one of his victims. He then found out about Mimasaka from Yuriko, and tried to be a living guinea pig to Mimasaka's experiment on "undead humans". What I don't get is, why did he kill Mimasaka at the end. PreFuturism-0 said: I wish this was explained as well. Or it could just be Kanako's nonsense talks.One aspect of the plot that was left unresolved-- and justifiably so given how Kanako died early on-- was her claims that she and Yoriko would be reincarnated as each other. I interperet this as-- and someone please confirm or correct this-- that Kanako knew she and Yoriko would end up as "human-machines": barring their disembodied heads they had lost their physical bodies, leaving them with only their minds and as Kanako felt she and Yoriko had the same mentality then they were now hence the same entity. My reasoning is clearly a bit flawed and I also make the assumption that Kanako had clairvoyance. Wolfiexe said: I don't get most of his delusions too, but I think it has something to do with the mouryou that possessed him. The last train scene was probably a symbolic way of trying to show that Sekiguchi couldn't be like Amemiya, who could obtain his own happiness by deceiving himself (or discarding his humanity as Chuuzenji puts it). His question to Chuuzenji by the end of the episode kinda supports this speculation. He also said that he was envious of Amemiya, as he got off the train (to each and their own utopia)I'll do some reading up anyway but I'm still a little unsure as to what the last scene meant with Sekiguchi and the train. Quite a lot of his delusion-like scenes confused me actually. Was it just his mind clashing with the stories of his novels or something? Desura said: Suzaki's method was much cheaper, but the probability of success was low, scientifically speaking. That is why they needed the money in order to keep Kanako alive with Mimasaka's method, that requires a huge funding in order to keep the entire "body" functioning. Suzaki probably tried to run away with Kanako's head, and tried to use that to get some ransom money (the inheritance) from Yoko.The only thing I didn't understand well is all the plan about the inheritance (the fake ransom; or keeping Kanako's alive was said to be expensive but Suzaki had a cheaper method, so why did they need the inheritance ? and why did they need to kidnap her to get it ? All of that is unclear/confused for me). Basically, there was supposed to be 2 ransom letters. First, from Suzaki to Yoko, but Amemiya ran off with Kanako's head. Second, from Yoko to the inheritance owner (or herself), who believed that he was Kanako's father. But of course, those ^ are just my interpretation. I could be wrong. PrOxAnto said: Sure, the series would've been much better without the language barrier, but I don't think that watching this requires any knowledge on Japanese mythology/culture, as it was discussed during the table conversation. Chuuzenji basically retold the entire lore with the mouryou. (I dozed off during that part though lol, that's why rewatching this would benefit, at least me)Red_Keys said: I don't really know what to make of this series. For a horror murder mystery, it sure had a lot of nonchalant and casual talking. Just sitting and talking. For a series that markets itself on suspense, it sure was boring. I think I would have liked it better if the language barrier wasn't there. And I had a background in Japanese mythology/culture. Because a lot of things probably went right over my head. 5/10 Would have to agree with this, also I dont know jack about Japanese mythology. Still the ending saved the show a bit for me, good explanation. Doubt I'll remember this show in a few weeks, the characters werent interesting. The way of telling the show was alright though, pretty clever. 6/10 Also, reading some of the posts here, especially from the novel readers, I kind of want to read the original novels. Reading Enokizu's biography on MAL reinforces my feelings on the matter. If anyone knows where can I have access to a translated version (English) of the novel, please leave me a message. :) |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| Had some decent ideas and Madhouse visuals but it felt so shallow. Show, don't tell please ... those talking episodes were painful to go through. Could maybe be better if it had more episodes, maybe. |
| I think this episode took my brain out of my body and placed it in a metallic box with no opening,because I totally lost it..I was like "omg this is messed up" when Akihito said Amemiya and Yoko raised Kanako,but Amemiya fell in love with Kanako,but he will be happy with whatever part of her body he can get hold of,whether it's just her hand or her head.But then detail on Kanako's birth,that Yoko slept with her father and gave birth to Kanako ... I think I really need a drink right now to process all that(why am i not 21 yet). But gotta say,it was a pretty deep story.I think I actually need to watch it a second time to properly understand this. I was totally confused the entire time until this episode. |
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SailorKagome said: So...Kanako is still alive ? Or is she dead ? That guy said something about a men who carried everywhere with him a box. Inside that box he saw nothing more than a piece of black,dried flesh. Does that mean that Kanako's head eventually died and it continued to decay inside that box ? The head was already Rotten |
| In the end things were wrapped up pretty neatly, but I think that this could've been better with a few episodes more. There was just too much going on in almost every episode to catch up on everything. Directing wise it was top notch, tho. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| I really don't like the pacing of the show, there are episodes that they spent only on talking to each other where I almost fell asleep. 6/10 |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| mixed feelings on this one: beautiful art and an intriguing story, but i felt that the pacing was way too slow and it took much too long for me to get to the point that interested me (around ep 8-9) 6/10 |
| I think that Kiba stab in the chest was well deserved, the guy was too stupid and naïve for a detective. I smiled like an evil mouryou when Youko ran with her father to that elevator, and topped it off by saying she only loved him, bummer! Amemiya is off somewhere being his crazy self, what a pretty twisted guy. I couldn't believe Kubo was alive, and was about to be some modern experiment for the doctor. The ending was a tiny bit of a disappointment, I wanted a true serial killer, and the one that was going to be amongst of those we knew in the series. I kinda wanted it to be Sekiguchi, since Chuuzenji was eyeing him all along, oh well. As for Kanako, I knew Yoriko was the suspect and it was an easy guess. The only stupid person was Kiba for not doing his Detective work, instead, he was blinded by a crush he had for the actress. His words to Youko totally described him to a tee. Overall, this was good series and so so tangled. Even when it's untangled it wasn't that worthy, but I still enjoyed it, I just love murder mysteries even though some are obvious. I have to agree with the fact, this should've been shorter than this, eight episodes would've been nice for it. Most of the stuff was just worthless dialogue, and filler scenes that weren't necessary but to drag it. 7/10. |
lihle808Dec 13, 2019 12:28 PM
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
| Pretty interesting ending, and overall I liked how it all came together by the end. That said, I feel like it could have done without the whole supernatural element, which kinda took far too much time to explain (especially the whole explanation on the difference between mediums and priests and the origins of Mouryou) for far too little payoff. Perhaps then those two episodes spent talking around a table could have been put to better use. I wasn't a huge fan of the characters either. Perhaps they're better developed in the original novel, but most of them were fairly dull. Sekiguchi was rather annoying to me for reasons I'm not quite sure of (perhaps all those mono-sentence inner monologues?). I also wasn't a huge fan of Kyougoku, who was somehow never wrong in his assumptions and was sooo smart that he always seemed to know everything about what was happening despite barely leaving his room. He also happens to share a name with the novel's author. Funny, that. |
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