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Lunallae said: That's my only criticism with people that say it makes no sense. Just because something is messed up and abrupt does not make it a bad narrative or lacking sense. I mean, I think each person is definitely entitled to their own opinion of the ending, especially since it, like many things in Banana Fish, is open to all sorts of interpretations. There's a lot reasons to hate it and I imagine there's going to be a lot of discourse about it when the last episode airs. However, I find it incredibly narrow-minded when people disregard the ending by saying it doesn't make sense because it does if one understands Ash's character. I won't go into more detail since now's not really the time to talk about the ending. I don't think so either because the last arc will need a huge overhaul if that's the case. But just speculating a possibility. Yeah... I feel like Garden of Light really finalizes everything. I am hoping it'll be part of the 24 episodes, but it's not very probable at this point. If it isn't part of the main story, I'm fairly certain it'll be an OVA. It's too important to omit completely. The story is not getting an overhaul. I think I know exactly which points will be cut or glossed over. Also, action sequences can be done much quicker. I just hope they don't cut out the It's too funny to pass up so I hope they keep it. yooshyesh said: They repeatedly call each other friends in the manga and are very platonic and bromantic. But the mangaka says there are romantic feelings between them and recent promotions of the re-released box sets in Japan treat them as a romantic couple. What you see in the anime is how things stay between them so no kissing or even hand holding. :( I love the new episode. But I'm really scared who's gonna die! A question: Are Eiji and Ash a couple or what is happening? I was so sure but they tell each other, that they're friends? Either way is really wholesome, but I think Eiji would be a perfect partner for Ash. windeen-windy said: Funny is that I thought of that scene you mentioned too. Ash wouldn't have needed software to hack the computer at Dawson's but I don't think that scene and the lower IQ are related. I think partly because it was much easier to hack computers back in the day so that made more sense in the manga and this was MAPPA trying to make sense of hacking today and screwing it up. Ash is already basically a super anti-hero. I don't see why they couldn't just leave the 200+ score in.MetaKite said: Thank you! I really liked this episode's adaptation except for one small detail. My only gripe is the IQ score they gave Ash. They kept it at 180 when it should be 200+ at this point in time. It was after this IQ test at the hospital that Ash's IQ was discovered to be at least 200 and not the 180 that was the previous police estimation. The previous estimate was completely cut out of the anime since they cut out the parts where Charlie, Jenkins and other cops put out an APB on Ash to arrest him and labeled him as very dangerous despite his pretty face. So this means that they dumbed Ash down for the anime. I'm not please by this development, MAPPA. I thought his IQ had been higher than that. I was questioning my memory- couldn't figure out why'd they only lower it to that (I was starting to wonder if I'd imagined the 200+ score). I was afraid they'd dumb him down when he didn't forcefully hack that computer, like he did in the manga. Guess that's what they are trying to do.... annelora said: LOL no, it's not just you. I know it's really immature but every time they had a shot of Arthur whining and of course his corpse, all I can think is "Hahaha, FU Frederick!". I wish I had that satisfacation with the other character I really hate.Oh, by the way, is it me or looking at Arthur's bloody corpse, knowing we will never see him again, is extremely satisfying? |
MetaKiteOct 12, 2018 7:42 PM
| Episode 14 was a bit of breather, although it still was a little painful to watch. I thought the new opening sequence was filled was very full on, powerful and symbolic, with a strong reference to episode 13's title (Snow on Mt Kilimanjaro). I honestly could not help but shed a tear as the sequence was just really emotional. Also, I thought the second opening made it very clear of Ash and Eiji's feelings towards one another, even though they have not 'confess' to each other in the traditional sense (and due to Ash's experience of abuse), we can see from that they have a very deep and trusting connection with one another. Correct me if I'm wrong but I read in an interview that the author states they do indeed have romantic feelings for each other. The episode was definitely of a slower pace, and its nice to see segments of humour from Ash (his response to the diagram!). However, the animation did seem a little jagged in places and another cliffhanger from MAPPA?! By the way, when did ash turn 18? I thought he was 17 since the anime started. Moreover, I hope they would adapt Garden of Light and Angel Eyes into OVA's as others have mentioned, as it doesn't seem to be enough time in the 24 episode series. |
plutochan said: Episode 14 was a bit of breather, although it still was a little painful to watch. I thought the new opening sequence was filled was very full on, powerful and symbolic, with a strong reference to episode 13's title (Snow on Mt Kilimanjaro). I honestly could not help but shed a tear as the sequence was just really emotional. Also, I thought the second opening made it very clear of Ash and Eiji's feelings towards one another, even though they have not 'confess' to each other in the traditional sense (and due to Ash's experience of abuse), we can see from that they have a very deep and trusting connection with one another. Correct me if I'm wrong but I read in an interview that the author states they do indeed have romantic feelings for each other. The episode was definitely of a slower pace, and its nice to see segments of humour from Ash (his response to the diagram!). However, the animation did seem a little jagged in places and another cliffhanger from MAPPA?! By the way, when did ash turn 18? I thought he was 17 since the anime started. Moreover, I hope they would adapt Garden of Light and Angel Eyes into OVA's as others have mentioned, as it doesn't seem to be enough time in the 24 episode series. Ash turned 18 on August 12th of that year- they just didn't mention it. Yes. The author did state that. Also, in the manga: |
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MetaKite said: Jacksnapp said: I don't know whether you are familiar with the results of IQ-scores but in my opinion, the difference between 180-200 is not that important (also in real life, most test results are presented with a similar degree of variation, for example when I personally was tested, the result was not one clear cut number but two numbers that represented the "level" into which my IQ can be categorized, there was a difference of 10 points) Also I would agree that Ash's IQ must be over 160 but personally I also can't quite shake the feeling that the higher the number, the more unrealistic it seems for a character like Ash to exist. No, I knew someone would point that out. That a score of that high makes little difference and that standards and scoring for those tests have changed in 30 years. It's just that it's brought up as plot point later as being a convenience that for how unlikely that would be to have someone like Ash in the first place. It could use more work but I guess we'll see how they progress the story with the change?. MAPPA hasn't really done great with certain aspects of the plot to help the suspension of disbelief with this update. Audiences just aren't the same and I felt like there is more they could have done to flesh somethings out more. Like giving Ash actual time to heal? Not possible when the story is literally being rushed through. It's been 8 months since Eiji and Ash met but it really doesn't seem like that. Jacksnapp said: See a lot of that has to do with the 80s action movie cliches the manga was rife with. Ash is straight up Rambo when the plot calls for it. His training and skill set is better elaborated on in the manga. In fact, cut from the anime's dialogue is Ash explaining how Golzine was the one to teach him the rules of assassinations. I felt like these little touches helped to explain his almost supernatural gifts but the anime doesn't bother with these little things. Part of why I feel like MAPPA has done a bad job of updating the series. Should have kept it set in the 80s but then they couldn't do cell phone shorts cuts and keep it at 24 episodes...Not to say, that his characterization doesn't fit the profile of 200+ but I already find it hard to suspend my disbelief when I compare the many other qualities his character has, that make him "special" and stand out (e.g. his ethereal beauty and fragile appearance paired with unbelievably good stamina and a superstrong body that is not only equipped with the finest shooting and draftman skills but also has unnatural healing powers/ resilience, coupled with supernatural sixth senses, a keen sense of smell etc. etc. etc.) and adding even more onto that (even if it is "only" a difference of 20 points) just makes it harder to accept (at least for me personally) (I hope I didn't sound too rude/ presumptous) Yeah, the Cell phones added the short cuts. But also are awkward, at times. One big thing (for me), was after Eiji escaped early on, and ran to get help for Skip and Ash. In the Manga it took so long to get help, because Eiji collapsed in a phone booth from blood loss. Instead, he collapsed on some poor lady who likely thought he was going to mug her.... He still got help faster that way, than if he'd have collapsed in a phone booth. Too fast for what send down between Ash, Skip and their captors, anyway. The pacing seemed REALLY off about that whole episode because of that (and I hadn't read the manga yet till an episode or 2 AFTER that (I read the whole thing over the course of about 3-4 days after I started it)- so my thinking that it was paced oddly didn't have anything to do with my being a bias manga fan). They should have kept it in the 80's. I think they likely could have fit it into the 24 ep range if they left out those short cuts. If they did it right, they could have (I think so, anyway). |
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| So, after that carnage, Ash was hospitalized. As long as the story get bigger, more enemies appear that want Ash dead so occurred a murder attempt wich Ash notices wisely. He got big names against him and they want him dead. He got kidnapped by false FBI agents and declared dead publicy. Slow paced episode, it's about last episode's consecuences. Horrible animation in murder attempt scene. Ash knew from the beginning who they are. Some very stupid scenes. |
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| I'm really into the new OP and ED. I loved the previous OP and ED but like with most Anime with 2 cours, the OP and ED usually change and I was excited to hear them. I wasn't disappointed. It was a pretty good episode. Glad that Ash is okay but this new doctor is obviously bad news. I guess they faked his death so no one would question his whereabouts if they did experiment on him. DAYUUUM, Yut Lung Banana Fish'd his brother. I think it's his pervert brother who wants to fuck him. |
| 臭い- |
| LOL they even have fake news huh! Nice new OP and new ED (same group who performed OP1) Ash can never take a break huh!?! 5/5. |
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| MAPPA needs to stick with the single cour season shows. All their two cour shows get really boring and flat in the middle from being forcibly dragged out. This is MAPPA's #1 problem, I think. They have a lot of really good concepts for shows, but then the two-cour ones will turn out to have meaningless stories. I loved the studio years ago when Maruyama was still heavily involved; but I have grown to slowly dislike the studio bit by bit. Has nothing to do with this specific episode, just something I slowly realized. |
~my listwindeen-windy said: They would not have been able to keep it at 24 episodes if they kept the story set in the 80s. The shortcuts is what allows them to get 5 or 6 pages of plot into less than a minute or even 30 seconds in some cases. I think 36 episodes would have worked. This adaptation reminds me of Inuyasha: The Final Act which also burned through a lot of manga material in 26 episodes at break neck speeds when it really could have used at least 39 episodes to give some arcs the breathing room they needed. The pacing for this show has been off since the beginning. I did like how they did add some scenes and elaborate where the manga did not like Arthur's flashback to getting spanked by Ash. So it does feel like everything is just being rushed and cram as much as possible for 24 episodes. I wonder if they have trouble funding the series and that's why 2 cours was decided upon instead of maybe 26 episodes.Yeah, the Cell phones added the short cuts. But also are awkward, at times. One big thing (for me), was after Eiji escaped early on, and ran to get help for Skip and Ash. In the Manga it took so long to get help, because Eiji collapsed in a phone booth from blood loss. Instead, he collapsed on some poor lady who likely thought he was going to mug her.... He still got help faster that way, than if he'd have collapsed in a phone booth. Too fast for what send down between Ash, Skip and their captors, anyway. The pacing seemed REALLY off about that whole episode because of that (and I hadn't read the manga yet till an episode or 2 AFTER that (I read the whole thing over the course of about 3-4 days after I started it)- so my thinking that it was paced oddly didn't have anything to do with my being a bias manga fan). They should have kept it in the 80's. I think they likely could have fit it into the 24 ep range if they left out those short cuts. If they did it right, they could have (I think so, anyway). Another reason why I prefer if it was set in the 80s is that I just prefer Ash's 1987 - 1992 design with the art style Yoshida had around that time best. It just screamed "pretty boy" as opposed to MAPPA's current design of him which is very standard as far as bisshies go these days. m-i-c-h-a-e-l said: This really does not apply to Banana Fish at all.MAPPA needs to stick with the single cour season shows. All their two cour shows get really boring and flat in the middle from being forcibly dragged out. This is MAPPA's #1 problem, I think. They have a lot of really good concepts for shows, but then the two-cour ones will turn out to have meaningless stories. I loved the studio years ago when Maruyama was still heavily involved; but I have grown to slowly dislike the studio bit by bit. Has nothing to do with this specific episode, just something I slowly realized. |
MetaKite said: Jacksnapp said: I don't know whether you are familiar with the results of IQ-scores but in my opinion, the difference between 180-200 is not that important (also in real life, most test results are presented with a similar degree of variation, for example when I personally was tested, the result was not one clear cut number but two numbers that represented the "level" into which my IQ can be categorized, there was a difference of 10 points) Also I would agree that Ash's IQ must be over 160 but personally I also can't quite shake the feeling that the higher the number, the more unrealistic it seems for a character like Ash to exist. No, I knew someone would point that out. That a score of that high makes little difference and that standards and scoring for those tests have changed in 30 years. It's just that it's brought up as plot point later as being a convenience that for how unlikely that would be to have someone like Ash in the first place. It could use more work but I guess we'll see how they progress the story with the change?. MAPPA hasn't really done great with certain aspects of the plot to help the suspension of disbelief with this update. Audiences just aren't the same and I felt like there is more they could have done to flesh somethings out more. Like giving Ash actual time to heal? Not possible when the story is literally being rushed through. It's been 8 months since Eiji and Ash met but it really doesn't seem like that. Jacksnapp said: See a lot of that has to do with the 80s action movie cliches the manga was rife with. Ash is straight up Rambo when the plot calls for it. His training and skill set is better elaborated on in the manga. In fact, cut from the anime's dialogue is Ash explaining how Golzine was the one to teach him the rules of assassinations. I felt like these little touches helped to explain his almost supernatural gifts but the anime doesn't bother with these little things. Part of why I feel like MAPPA has done a bad job of updating the series. Should have kept it set in the 80s but then they couldn't do cell phone shorts cuts and keep it at 24 episodes...Not to say, that his characterization doesn't fit the profile of 200+ but I already find it hard to suspend my disbelief when I compare the many other qualities his character has, that make him "special" and stand out (e.g. his ethereal beauty and fragile appearance paired with unbelievably good stamina and a superstrong body that is not only equipped with the finest shooting and draftman skills but also has unnatural healing powers/ resilience, coupled with supernatural sixth senses, a keen sense of smell etc. etc. etc.) and adding even more onto that (even if it is "only" a difference of 20 points) just makes it harder to accept (at least for me personally) (I hope I didn't sound too rude/ presumptous) Yes, I agree with everything you've said. I'm not a manga reader (yet), but there are many times in the anime, when certain character traits or decisions or pieces of information are presented in a way, where I felt as though there must've been a different context or a more detailed plot progression in the manga, it's as though you were watching a cut movie edition and would notice the cuts/ edits without knowing what the missing footage looked like. I think MAPPA did a great job for the most part with the material and amount of episodes/ preparation time they were given, but there are times like this (how you mentioned in the second part of your answer) where I believe the translation to modern times to be capable/ in need of improvement. I'm also familiar with the type of movies/ comics/ anime and manga from those times, therefore I am able to suspend my disbelief when it comes to Ash's character for the most part (he might seem tropey to modern audiences but he's totally fine in the context of the time of his conception), still it sometimes does become difficult to watch at times. Yet I understand your frustration, if it is brought up at some point/ somehow relevant for the story, it would've made sense to change that number (especially since it doesn't require them to go out of their way to add something unnecessary but is just a minor detail they probably could've kept in) |
| Ash just has too many enemies, like sheeeeeesh |
| “I love heroes, but I don't want to be one. Do you even know what a hero is!? For example, you have some meat. Pirates will feast on the meat, but the hero will distribute it among the people! I want to eat the meat!” - Monkey D. Luffy |
MetaKite said: m-i-c-h-a-e-l said: This really does not apply to Banana Fish at all.MAPPA needs to stick with the single cour season shows. All their two cour shows get really boring and flat in the middle from being forcibly dragged out. This is MAPPA's #1 problem, I think. They have a lot of really good concepts for shows, but then the two-cour ones will turn out to have meaningless stories. I loved the studio years ago when Maruyama was still heavily involved; but I have grown to slowly dislike the studio bit by bit. Has nothing to do with this specific episode, just something I slowly realized. Yeah it does. Banana Fish frequently phases in between exciting and boring; and the boring parts drag on longer than the exciting parts. And at this point, the plot is so muddy and is so unclear as to where it's even going; the only highly probably thing will be Ash's eventual showdown with Dino. Will killing Dino necessarily stop the production/distribution of the drug? Does Ash even care about the government's involvement, or does he just want revenge? A large number of characters in the cast are useless to progressing the story. And the awkward BL overtones sprinkled in dont add any value either. In short, Banana Fish should have been able to wrap up the story it had to tell in a single season. All three iterations of Garo had similar problems. The beginning lays out the premise of the story they want to tell, which sounds like a good concept, and it starts off entertaining. But the middle starts getting dragged out and gets boring; Then has a mediocre ending. Look at Vanishing Line- it had a great cast of characters and a kickass setting, and was the best Garo of the three... But they spent at least half a dozen flippin episodes on a roadtrip across the US and nothing significant happened along the way. It wouldve been a much better show if they had kept it under 15 episodes. All Im saying is the MAPPA shows I DO really like happen to all be 12 episodes and no second season, and I dont think thats a coincidence. |
m-i-c-h-a-e-l said: Because MAPPA wrote the story and script for a manga that started 33 years ago, right? Go to bed, troll. You're drunk.Yeah it does. Banana Fish frequently phases in between exciting and boring; and the boring parts drag on longer than the exciting parts. And at this point, the plot is so muddy and is so unclear as to where it's even going; the only highly probably thing will be Ash's eventual showdown with Dino. Will killing Dino necessarily stop the production/distribution of the drug? Does Ash even care about the government's involvement, or does he just want revenge? A large number of characters in the cast are useless to progressing the story. And the awkward BL overtones sprinkled in dont add any value either. In short, Banana Fish should have been able to wrap up the story it had to tell in a single season. All three iterations of Garo had similar problems. The beginning lays out the premise of the story they want to tell, which sounds like a good concept, and it starts off entertaining. But the middle starts getting dragged out and gets boring; Then has a mediocre ending. Look at Vanishing Line- it had a great cast of characters and a kickass setting, and was the best Garo of the three... But they spent at least half a dozen flippin episodes on a roadtrip across the US and nothing significant happened along the way. It wouldve been a much better show if they had kept it under 15 episodes. All Im saying is the MAPPA shows I DO really like happen to all be 12 episodes and no second season, and I dont think thats a coincidence. |
MetaKiteOct 13, 2018 8:51 PM
| ok well this was something..both the op and ed is amazing and will like ash ever unite with eiji... hmm |
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| No idea how they are going to adapt the rest of the story with the number of the episodes they have left, I foresee some arcs getting cut. Also this marks the beginning of the hilarious Ash's IQ memes. |
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| Even more guys now after Ash's head, he is too big risk for everyone. That nurse assassin scene were quite something, and fake agents :/ Ash is survivor anyway, but Eiji would be in even bigger troubles... Ash dead? yeah right, nice joke. Those who are after Ash will die before he dies. Ash is a killer, he will never get over it anyhow, he have to live with it, that might be bigger punishment for him than any other judgement... more he will kill, more he will lost about himself. Opening were nice :) |
GaichiOct 15, 2018 4:03 AM
"A half moon, it has a dark half and a bright half, just like me…", Yuno Gasai |
| Well, at the moment, I still like the previous OP and ED more but this new OP is not that bad either. The visuals in both of the new ones are stunning tho. Interesting episode, declaring Ash dead at the end of it was a nice addition. Now, it will take a time until they find out the truth. I wonder what Eiji will do now due to this news. Personally, I don't think he believed the news about Ash but the problem is what he can do to help him since he's just... well... Eiji. |
| Dont fancy new OP2 vs OP1, but enjoying ED2 more than ED1. Also like I will really believe he is dead, it is easily just a move from those assholes, to have the "subject" all for themselves, for what reasons, we will know, probably next episode. |
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| I LOVE the new OP and ED. The music in Banana Fish has been really great so far. Thankfully Ash pulled through his surgery. It’s a shame his injury is as bad as it is, he can barely get up. Yut-Lung basically kidnapped Sing and Eiji, though I think more than anything, he might be trying to protect Eiji. It’s always hard to tell with this guy. He also drugged his older brother which doesnt surprise me. He was an awful guy. I loved the intelligence test lmao “What does this look like?” “Your wife.” XD I’m also not surprised to see how smart Ash actually is. The FBI, who are on Dino’s side took Ash to a mental institution and faked his death. I wonder how Eiji is gonna take it |
| New opening? Come on, just when I started appreciating it they come and change it, updated visuals would have been better than a brand new one. Yes, I predicted what that long haired dude would probably end up like, maybe a competitive face with the Don? Could he probably team up with Ash at some point? I sure hope he does, so that at least Ash doesn't start up from zero when he recovers and decides to go after the Don. Poor Ash, even hospitalized he can't get a break from the sexual abuse, I mean, how degenerate can you get to force an unable person to take a piss in front of you out of entertainment, that must have been super uncomfortable. Sheesh. They would probably run for their lives as soon as they realized they've been messing with a dangerous figure. FBI-kun has joined the chat, I mean, small-time gangs are not relevant now am I right? I doubt that Ash can get away by himself at this point. Given they announced him dead, you can only imagine what they are planning on doing. Poor Eiji will have to believe in him dying for some relatively long while until some further notice. I love how he was analyzing where they were taking him to just by his strong sense of direction, smell and movement, definitely somebody if 180 IQ. |
| Of course Ash is not yet dead, I believe. I still think that Eiji should just go back to Japan but what could be the story if it will happen lol. I wonder what he will do next and I hope Ash will not be experimented by that Doctor. I was also impressed when Ash found out about the nurse. |
  ★━━─ 𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘐 𝘣𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘮𝘺 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘵? 𝘞𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘥𝘢𝘺? |
| Hey, I like the new OP (despite the awkward English lyrics...) and ED. Cool stuff. And I actually like how they handled the IQ stuff. We have another genius protag but the anime doesn't gloss over it from the very beginning, unlike the way some familiar animes who love to trope the shite out of it. Now I understand how terrifying Ash can be. One more mad doctor... this I don't like the sound of. Eh, and Yue Lung getting his way over there, I still can't form an opinion of him, really should I love or hate him. |
fianeJun 1, 2019 7:26 AM
| I love that Max is going along with the whole Dad role, ha. |
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| Oh dear, Ash in yet another pinch! |
| I'm Bruneian and I like anime. And Manchester United. And fat cats. |
| They're not giving poor Ash a break, huh New op&ed are pretty cool :3 |
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| No way. ASH IS DEADDDD??? |
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| ash taking that test made me laugh hebebe damn hes smart 180 iq they're faking his death?? kind of disappointed they changed the ED |
| EIJI AND SING FINALLY MEEEEEET!! Ngl thats all that matters to me in this episode Kidding! As a manga reader i gotta say the new op references a LOT of shit and i cant believe mappa did that... both the op and ed are hella gay tho, the ed was apparently storyboarded by Utsumi herself and character designed by Hayashi too Also, new character incoming, and damn they really made him extra good-looking |
CalmTeaTimeJan 8, 2022 3:04 PM
| damn those nurses are so horny lmao wonder what Yut-Lung plan for capturing Eiji. |
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| lol the nurses And no way Ash is dead. They are faking his death. |
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| Poor Ash is gonna get further tortured by a mad scientist, while most think he is dead.. |
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| the audacity to attack ashbear in his hospital bed, some mfs need to perish immediately do NOT pull the death scare on sweet eiji |
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