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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Tokuko's marriage still goes on even if she's infertile, and Shigemori's family along with Biwa are in Itsukushima to oversee the ceremony. Also, adultery in this time and age is pretty common to see, as feelings can get stifled easily with the pressure these young people of power are forced with. The conflict between the Heike (through the Taira clan) and the Enryakuji, portrayed through the solemn song from the playing of the Biwa instrument, that has always been a nice touch. The politics side is always a gray area, and thosr who show contempt will be executed immediately, while the conflict puts people-in-charge (like Shigemori) in peril of decisions made that further add fuel into the fire. And nowhere do we see this in close detail than through Biwa who tries to warn of the impending danger. Hmm, Shigemori gathering soldiers for a coup d'etat against his own father, pledging his allegience to Emperor Go-Shirakawa. What a dilemma, but holy shit this is rebellion at its finest. |
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| Poor Biwa is seasick. It's okay, Biwa. Once again, the OP makes me bop my head hard. I love it so much. Biwa is so adorable. I can't deny how amusing it is to see her relationship developing with people around her. And, I love the fact that she's very bold and doesn't think before saying something, it's an adorable thing to have. LOL. Got to know a little bit more about the families and how they work. Also, got to see a conflict between Enryakuji and the people from the Taira clan. Literal one-sided massacre. Things are getting really interesting in this show as we're going forward. I feel bad for Shigemori. This guy can't catch a break. Also, I love how much Biwa cares about him. |
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| An new wonderful episode, shigemori's dilema of serving the emperor and defying his father/clan was just perfectly made. This episode made many things clear I and I fell sad for tokuko being NTR'ed |
sonu711Sep 29, 2021 9:03 AM
| https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ [WATCH THIS^^^] |
| Turns out Tokuko is infertile. At least the marriage is continuing for now it seems. Love how much Biwa cares for Shigemori also. Looking forward to the next episode. |
| AISHITERU...REM! |
| Tokuko by technicality is the one getting the worse overall, is being cheated, her clan rebelling, will be hostage maybe, then murdered or have a accidental death at fairly young age. Just great. One order, dont shoot the shrine. And the arches are bad enough to shoot at. I wonder if now will be heated episodes like this from now on. |
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| Very good episode. The animation was solid and Sakurai killed it with his voice acting in this episode. The build up in the speech by Shigemori at the end was amazing. The only complaint I have is that there are just way too many characters for me to keep track. Now that the story is really taking off, I'm really looking forward to the next episode. |
| Things seem to be progressing a bit fast here, but I really like tone, direction, and score of this show. Also, It seems likes this show assumes the viewers know the history behind the events in the story. I reckon the average Japanese knows all these people mentioned left and right and these events to some extent. So that's why it kinda seems convoluted because people who don't know the history don't have some of the context. Might have to do some re-watching soon. |
| A bit of time has passed and Biwa still kind of looks the same while everyone else has grown. The Itsukushima shrine definitely looked gorgeous. That was a really great episode and I especially loved the last part with Shigemori rebelling against Kiyomori, the soundtrack slaps. And that's why arranged marriages don't work. I knew the shrine was gonna be hit in the battle, Shigemori can't catch a break. His estate got burned down because of that. Really looking forward to the next episode, things are getting even spicier. |
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| I still don't get it. It's pretty slow, and I can't remember who half of the characters are, there's a new name every 3min and idk if they're important... |
I don't know how signatures work   |
MuZe- said: Things seem to be progressing a bit fast here, but I really like tone, direction, and score of this show. Also, It seems likes this show assumes the viewers know the history behind the events in the story. I reckon the average Japanese knows all these people mentioned left and right and these events to some extent. So that's why it kinda seems convoluted because people who don't know the history don't have some of the context. Might have to do some re-watching soon. Yeah, I get the impression that this particular anime is made mainly for Japanese audiences to enjoy. I have absolutely no clue who is related to who and to whom they each have allegiance. I am super lost. |
| Honestly, I think I'm going to have to drop this, as I simply can't keep up with what's going on at all. The flow of time is unclear, the show jumps from event to event to event without any sort of transition between them (this episode's events felt like they could have taken multiple episodes potentially, rather than lasting several minutes apiece to fit it all into one) and there's still too many names being thrown around for me to know who anyone besides Biwa, Shigemori and Tokuko are to actually care about them. It definitely feels like the show is assuming its audience is familiar with these events and characters so isn't bothering to make them properly clear to any newcomers to the story. And, quite frankly, I have zero interest in having to spend at least as much time every week researching things to understand what's going on as I do actually watching the show. It's definitely a shame, as there's some excellent directing and visuals being used here, but if nothing makes any sense then what's the point? |
| definitely feel like you got to have some knowledge about Japan History, because it's really hard to keeping up who related to whom. Yeahh i agree with you all, i only remember Biwa, Shigemori and Tokuko name, idk why it's hard to remember the rest. I still get the main plot somehow. I like the Politics for sure. but reading some of you guys comment here week to week somehow help, so Thank You. |
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| @Erotaku_, @LittleWhiteHerz, @MuZe-, @EstebanOD, @justtvalerie, @Atavistic, @davidyodo24 I give you a helping hand with some of the most important names and dates mentioned in this episode. Lady Shigeko: Taira no Shigeko, the late wife of the retired emperor Go-Shirakawa, the mother of emperor Takakura. Since she had an important role in helping to prevent a conflict between the Taira clan and the retired emperor, after her death (1176) the relation between the two party got worse. Lady Kogo: Kogō-no-Tsubone, she is a Fujiwara daugther. Don’t make a fuss over that she is the lover of the emperor, he is not „cheating” on Takako in the sense that we mean it today. It was pretty normal at that time that a japanese emperor had more than one wife and a few other concubines. The Heike Monogatari devotes a whole chapter to her and her fate later on so don’t forget her name. Fujiwara no Morotsune governor of Kaga and Fujiwara no Morotaka: The sons of Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Saiko). They were the guys who clashed with the monks at the Ugawa temple and burned the whole complex down in May 1177 . Because their punishment was not harsh enough more than a thousand monks marched en masse to the capital carrying with them the sacred portable shrines (Hakusan incident). Both of them were executed after the Shishigatani incident. Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Saiko).: A monk and a trusted vassal of Go-Shirakawa. He was one of the conspirators at Shishigatani, on whose face Taira no Kiyomori stamped on and then ordered his execution (June 1177). Myoun: Head priest of the Tendai Sect who, on the advice of Saiko, after the conflagration of Kyoto, had been removed from his position and got exiled because of his role in the Hakusan incident. The monks rebelled against this decision and rescued him on his way to his exile. Shunkan: A priest of the Shingon sect and the advisor or Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the secret meeting at Shishigatani. Fujiwara no Narichika: His father and the earlier mentioned Fujiwara no Moromitsu’s adoptive father was the same person, he is the brother-in-law of Taira no Shigemori and father-in law of Taira no Koremori, father of Fujiwara no Naritsune, attendant to Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the Shishigatani conspiracy. After the incident he had got exiled and in the end was killed by not being given food. Minamoto no Yoritomo: He was mentioned only once and then was shown standing before Mount Fuji but don’t forget his name because he will be an important figure in the story later on. He and his two brothers had been exiled after the Heiji rebellion (1160) by Kiyomori who in that time supported Go-Shirakawa. |
IshitatesoOct 2, 2021 12:07 AM
夏草や 兵どもが 夢の跡  |
Ishitateso said: @Erotaku_, @LittleWhiteHerz, @MuZe-, @EstebanOD, @justtvalerie, @Atavistic, @davidyodo24 I give you a helping hand with some of the most important names and dates mentoned in this episode. Lady Shigeko: Taira no Shigeko, the late wife of the retired emperor Go-Shirakawa, the mother of emperor Takakura. Since she had an important role in helping to prevent a conflict between the Taira clan and the retired emperor, after her death (1176) the relation between the two party got worse. Lady Kogo: Kogō-no-Tsubone, she is a Fujiwara daugther. Don’t make a fuss over that she is the lover of the emperor, he is not „cheating” on Takako in the sense that we mean it today. It was pretty normal at that time that a japanese emperor has more than one wife and a few other conbunines. The Heike Monogatari devotes a whole chapter to her and her fate later on so don’t forget her name. Fujiwara no Morotsune governor of Kaga and Fujiwara no Morotaka: The sons of Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Seiko). They were the guys who clashed with the monks at the Ugawa temple and burned the whole complex down in May 1177 (Hakusan incident). Because they remained unpunished and the head priest had got exiled and tortured after the incident more than a thousand monks marched en masse to the capital carrying three sacred portable shrines. Both of them were executed after the Shishigatani incident . Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Seiko).: A monk and a trusted vassal of Go-Shirakawa. He was one of the conspirators at Shishigatani on whose face Taira no Kiyomori stamped on and then ordered his execution (June 1177). Myoun: Head priest of the Tendai Sect who had been removed from his position and got exiled after the incident at the Ugawa temple on the advice of Saiko. Shunkan: A priest of the Shingon sect and the advisor or Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the secret meeting at Shishigatani. Fujiwara no Narichika: He was adopted by the earlier mentioned Fujiwara no Moromitsu’s father, brother-in-law of Taira no Shigemori and father-in law of Taira no Koremori, attendant to Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the Shishigatani conspiracy. After the incident he had got exiled and in the end was killed by not being given food. Minamoto no Yoritomo: He was mentioned only once and then was shown standing before Mount Fuji but don’t forget his name because he will be an important figure in the story later on. He and his two brothers was exiled after the Heiji rebellion (1160) by Kiyomori who in that time supported Go-Shirakawa. Wow, thank you for taking the time to write all of this. It's so appreciated. I still had to go and google most of it because I can't tell who's who without having a face to attach it to (the names are too confusing and literally everyone is related to everyone either by blood or by marriage, so I needed visual aid, haha), but this is a good summary that I might fall back on during the anime run. Thank you! |
| wow this anime is really...something else. finally a good hystorical anime. the design is unique and reminds me of Okami. |
Ishitateso said: @Erotaku_, @LittleWhiteHerz, @MuZe-, @EstebanOD, @justtvalerie, @Atavistic, @davidyodo24 I give you a helping hand with some of the most important names and dates mentioned in this episode. Lady Shigeko: Taira no Shigeko, the late wife of the retired emperor Go-Shirakawa, the mother of emperor Takakura. Since she had an important role in helping to prevent a conflict between the Taira clan and the retired emperor, after her death (1176) the relation between the two party got worse. Lady Kogo: Kogō-no-Tsubone, she is a Fujiwara daugther. Don’t make a fuss over that she is the lover of the emperor, he is not „cheating” on Takako in the sense that we mean it today. It was pretty normal at that time that a japanese emperor had more than one wife and a few other concubines. The Heike Monogatari devotes a whole chapter to her and her fate later on so don’t forget her name. Fujiwara no Morotsune governor of Kaga and Fujiwara no Morotaka: The sons of Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Saiko). They were the guys who clashed with the monks at the Ugawa temple and burned the whole complex down in May 1177 (Hakusan incident). Because they remained unpunished and the head priest had got exiled and tortured after the incident more than a thousand monks marched en masse to the capital carrying three sacred portable shrines. Both of them were executed after the Shishigatani incident . Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Saiko).: A monk and a trusted vassal of Go-Shirakawa. He was one of the conspirators at Shishigatani, on whose face Taira no Kiyomori stamped on and then ordered his execution (June 1177). Myoun: Head priest of the Tendai Sect who had been removed from his position and got exiled after the incident at the Ugawa temple on the advice of Saiko. Shunkan: A priest of the Shingon sect and the advisor or Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the secret meeting at Shishigatani. Fujiwara no Narichika: His father and the earlier mentioned Fujiwara no Moromitsu’s adoptive father was the same person, he is the brother-in-law of Taira no Shigemori and father-in law of Taira no Koremori, attendant to Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the Shishigatani conspiracy. After the incident he had got exiled and in the end was killed by not being given food. Minamoto no Yoritomo: He was mentioned only once and then was shown standing before Mount Fuji but don’t forget his name because he will be an important figure in the story later on. He and his two brothers was exiled after the Heiji rebellion (1160) by Kiyomori who in that time supported Go-Shirakawa. Wowwww, thank you so much for all that work ! |
| I don't know how signatures work |
| Hmmm, a little intensive situation here. Love the way they use ballad between those scenes. Melodically charming. |
 |
| That singing scene halfway through was a super hair-raising moment, the way it turned into a montage and the soundtrack emerged under the voices. So was the sudden time-skip into a grown-up Biwa singing about the attack on the monks. |
| I didn't even notice there was a time skip at first. I thought the now grown kids were yet another new characters. |
| I’m not even sure of whatever is happening, way too many names, complicated situations, relationships and time skips but damn that cliffhanger was good. |
| shit i didn't even notice the timeskip till everyone said i did feel the 3 kids were a bit older but Biwa looked the same i really wish i had a flowchart for this show it's hard keeping track of all the lords and families because things have gotten serious real quick and i don't know who is who i don't envy Shigemori's position he has too high of morals for his standing and good men die young in this era of backstabbing and cruelty |
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| Not knowing the history of this event, I wished that Shigemori and the rest of his family just gapped it and live a new and peaceful life. Though I highly doubt that's gonna happen |
| solid episode great animation + strong ending |
| Tokoku really got cheated on, damn.. Shigemori's part was just beautiful. Really good ep. |
   “You yourself have to change first, or nothing will change for you!” ' |
| boy oh boy time for a good ol fashioned beheading |
| Just beautiful. I feel like I will be saying beautiful in every episode discussion. The way they narrated the monk attack in a poetic and musical way, it was fabulous. I am having a little trouble following the story cuz of their names. But the aestheticism alone is enough for me to continue. |
| I'm so conflicted about this show. The prodution is great as always and I see potential in it.... but it's confusing af. Do you actually need to know the story in advance to be able to follow it comfortably? Because that's the feeling I get, which unfortunately means straight up spoilers for whoever wants to watch it blindly. This almost feels like Lain, except this whole confusion is clearly not part of the premise or a good thing. |
FlamepriesT said: I'm so conflicted about this show. The prodution is great as always and I see potential in it.... but it's confusing af. Do you actually need to know the story in advance to be able to follow it comfortably? Because that's the feeling I get, which unfortunately means straight up spoilers for whoever wants to watch it blindly. This almost feels like Lain, except this whole confusion is clearly not part of the premise or a good thing. You don't really need to know the story, but this anime assumes that you have a basic understanding of Japanese history. The show assumes the viewer has a working knowledge on how Imperial Court politics worked at the time. A good example is the position of a retired emperor. The Japanese Emperor at the time was largely ceremonial. An emperor would serve for around a decade before they retired and handed it off to a younger brother or son. Once they retire, they get much more freedom and also have the ability to wield more power. This anime faces a similar problem that many classics face. The Divine Comedy is one of the greatest medieval works in Western Literature, but it would be utterly confusion to someone who doesn't know Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. |
Phaetons_Folly said: FlamepriesT said: I'm so conflicted about this show. The prodution is great as always and I see potential in it.... but it's confusing af. Do you actually need to know the story in advance to be able to follow it comfortably? Because that's the feeling I get, which unfortunately means straight up spoilers for whoever wants to watch it blindly. This almost feels like Lain, except this whole confusion is clearly not part of the premise or a good thing. You don't really need to know the story, but this anime assumes that you have a basic understanding of Japanese history. The show assumes the viewer has a working knowledge on how Imperial Court politics worked at the time. A good example is the position of a retired emperor. The Japanese Emperor at the time was largely ceremonial. An emperor would serve for around a decade before they retired and handed it off to a younger brother or son. Once they retire, they get much more freedom and also have the ability to wield more power. This anime faces a similar problem that many classics face. The Divine Comedy is one of the greatest medieval works in Western Literature, but it would be utterly confusion to someone who doesn't know Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. I wouldn't mind reading up on some of that stuff or watching a crash course video on the topic. Please let me know if you have any recommendations. |
| I really like the animation of this show, but the story is hard to understand especially when so many names they put and I don't know who is who.. I hope they put names for every character and who is that person like how BNHA did. (but BNHA overdid it that it looks annoying sometimes lol) |
| Proverbs 4:23 Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. |
| Baby guitar playing is great. |
RascoNov 7, 2021 9:10 AM
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| Poor Tokuko... but weird how Biwa didn't change after 6 years, something is wrong with her (I mean physically.. like she doesn't exist or something like that), the situation is sure interesting with the current tension against the Heike and Shigemori's rebellion against his father. |
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| Getting NTR'd by your 16 yo husband. That sure is rough but honestly, Tokuko could have had it way worse. Not sure what would happen to her in a hypothetical rebellion tho. And Shigemori sure can't catch a break, huh? People around him can't stop screwing things up and he has to clean up the mess every time. |
| Suprising to see 6 years have already passed with only Biwa looking the same. A lot of tension with the predicted downfall of Heike slowly looking to become true. |
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| The scenes of Biwa walking behind the brothers and the confrontation between Shigemori and the monks were such splendid and intense moments. |
Ishitateso said: Quoting this cause it's so useful and I need this next to any episodes I might watch in the feature lol, so I want to find this easily in my old posts. Thanks for writing this out! @Erotaku_, @LittleWhiteHerz, @MuZe-, @EstebanOD, @justtvalerie, @Atavistic, @davidyodo24 I give you a helping hand with some of the most important names and dates mentioned in this episode. Lady Shigeko: Taira no Shigeko, the late wife of the retired emperor Go-Shirakawa, the mother of emperor Takakura. Since she had an important role in helping to prevent a conflict between the Taira clan and the retired emperor, after her death (1176) the relation between the two party got worse. Lady Kogo: Kogō-no-Tsubone, she is a Fujiwara daugther. Don’t make a fuss over that she is the lover of the emperor, he is not „cheating” on Takako in the sense that we mean it today. It was pretty normal at that time that a japanese emperor had more than one wife and a few other concubines. The Heike Monogatari devotes a whole chapter to her and her fate later on so don’t forget her name. Fujiwara no Morotsune governor of Kaga and Fujiwara no Morotaka: The sons of Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Saiko). They were the guys who clashed with the monks at the Ugawa temple and burned the whole complex down in May 1177 . Because their punishment was not harsh enough more than a thousand monks marched en masse to the capital carrying with them the sacred portable shrines (Hakusan incident). Both of them were executed after the Shishigatani incident. Fujiwara no Moromitsu (referred to by the name Saiko).: A monk and a trusted vassal of Go-Shirakawa. He was one of the conspirators at Shishigatani, on whose face Taira no Kiyomori stamped on and then ordered his execution (June 1177). Myoun: Head priest of the Tendai Sect who, on the advice of Saiko, after the conflagration of Kyoto, had been removed from his position and got exiled because of his role in the Hakusan incident. The monks rebelled against this decision and rescued him on his way to his exile. Shunkan: A priest of the Shingon sect and the advisor or Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the secret meeting at Shishigatani. Fujiwara no Narichika: His father and the earlier mentioned Fujiwara no Moromitsu’s adoptive father was the same person, he is the brother-in-law of Taira no Shigemori and father-in law of Taira no Koremori, father of Fujiwara no Naritsune, attendant to Go-Shirakawa, one of the participants in the Shishigatani conspiracy. After the incident he had got exiled and in the end was killed by not being given food. Minamoto no Yoritomo: He was mentioned only once and then was shown standing before Mount Fuji but don’t forget his name because he will be an important figure in the story later on. He and his two brothers had been exiled after the Heiji rebellion (1160) by Kiyomori who in that time supported Go-Shirakawa. |
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