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| What a huge disappoint this ending was and hear I thought I have finally found a short good thriller mystery anime with deep themes. Ahhh ...idk from where to start, this show started okay for me then middle arc become really interesting but this last arc literally made the previous arcs waste of time if this was focused on Magase and Seizaki cat mouse traps it would have been better I just feel like this was the poor version of the Naoki Urasawa's masterpiece manga "Monster". It felt like this show wanted to portray the themes but badly failed in it therefore how much people say that ending is deep it felt cheap and forced for me becuz there was no buildup or motivation of characters I mean What is the reason of Magise doing all this things?? Literally show made her some sort of superhuman she killed all man in the building and reach the top floor without anyone capturing her what a security for president of America I would have understand if they showed her using other people for doing these things by blackmailing them,manipulating them or by giving them some kind of drug but I guess she was invisible and what's the point of shifting the story to America and focus on it's president I mean who cares what he thinks "what's good and evil" I mean if Magse wanted Seizaki to understand this ideology (which I don't understand why she wanted him to understand this ideology) then she could have done it by other methods. Also in EP 5 till 7 Itsuki was the main focus for this sucide law debate but writer just throw that plot point I mean he could have focus on itsuki's character or Magase's reasoning for her actions instead of just throwing them and goes into another plot point gosh I have never written so much in any post but I am really disappointed the first 3 eps were 6.5/10, eps 4-7 were 8/10 and this last arc was 4/ 10 so I guess it's overall 6/ 10 and I am being too generous here but I think my rating will drop more after some time becuz the more I am thinking the more I am disliking this and the more show seems stupid to me |
ArshjJan 27, 2020 4:28 PM
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| Wow. I'm speechless at how bad that ending was. Was the entire purpose of this show to discuss what good and evil are? Honestly... so much unexplained - so much gone to waste. This show served no purpose. All the drama and tension built up was all for nothing. All the thrilling moments... nothing! No payoff. Evil wins in the end? Suicide law? Who cares. |
| Well...the scene when he persuaded the lady not to jump was sweet and heartwarming, but apart from that- what a mess this episode was. The soundtrack was pretty though. What was the conclusion to the puddle deep philosophical/ethical debate throughout the entire series? I expected it to be stupid, but this takes the cake. The show to me felt downright pretentious which was disappointing because it was built up quite well initially. Just glad it's over! Imma keep my memories of Babylon from 1-8 (ish) and destroy the rest. Perhaps even read the manga! |
strawberaetaeJan 27, 2020 4:45 PM
Eonlars said: Frostyinside said: I mean the whole thing about magase falls flat if you consider he had already killed the president, like he had already proved that he was bad, bc alex (president) was good, and yeah, he killed him. So, I don't think he didn't kill her to prove he was good as he had already killed a person moments before President knew he was going to kill him, that's why he gave the gun to Zen and still called him a "Good Man" Also Zen didn't end the president, the president was already done for as he was about to jump no matter what Zen did. Magase called Zen a bad man after he killed the president but she did it to mess with him and the fact that she challenged Zen to a "who will shoot" when she obviously had the chance to kill him reinforces the idea that she wasn't fully sure about Zen being a bad man. Makes sense, but I can't see how she had the chance to kill him, she was only pointing her fingers at him. The ending was pretty confusing tbf, I thought someone in the helicopter shot him, but i saw someone saying he killed himself, both are real possibilities. The thing with the president is confusing too, like if to end is bad then Zen killing alex makes him bad, but he did it for a good cause, in order not to make the world think that suicide is good so it can be considered as a good action? Idk |
MehmetY said: Swagarot said: i feel like in steins gate it wasn't as important as in Babylon cause in steins gate while it was important it wasn't used as the main "thing" while in here ai's powers are pretty important cause they cause a lot of major events in the story, i feel like without explaining it ai's powers are just another plot device. Okabe's power as important as Ai's power imo. Without Reading Steiner, Okabe couldn't keep memories from other time lines and this was one of the main things at Steins;Gate events. Reading Steiner is explained though in 0. Not in a really satisfying way as it was one of the most interesting but not properly developed storylines in 0, but still enough to accept it, why Okabe is special. Anyway agreeing it wasnt needed in Babylon to explain Ai. It was obvious she was just a abstract concept like the Otter in Sarazanmai just to drive the story and make the readers/viewers in this case rethinking their believes about good and evil. I wished at the first episodes it was more grounded thriller, like it actually tried to be most of the time, but it still works for what it is and it was expected since the beginning of this last arc to end in a way like this. So in a sense kinda wasted potential, but still enjoyed it. |
| The wiki for the novel says: "Original run: 2015/10 - " Probably, this would mean the novel hasn't finished yet. And one of the reviewers in Amazon says: "Although the subtitle of Vol. 3 is 'end', the story continues." As I'm not a keen audience for this series and haven't read the novel, I'm not sure about it. |
| lol best comedy 2019-2020 seriously what the f*ck, how can you get so bad in such a short time. kuroneko99 said: The wiki for the novel says: "Original run: 2015/10 - " Probably, this would mean the novel hasn't finished yet. And one of the reviewers in Amazon says: "Although the subtitle of Vol. 3 is 'end', the story continues." As I'm not a keen audience for this series and haven't read the novel, I'm not sure about it. It finished on the third volume. It's just trying to look cool because to end = evil and continue = good. This is so pretentious lol. |
unanswered revenge. :( |
EdHaku said: I see. Thank you for the additional information. Well then, it seems the author has poor skill to finish story (or to make promising premise).kuroneko99 said: It finished on the third volume. It's just trying to look cool because to end = evil and continue = good. The wiki for the novel says: "Original run: 2015/10 - " Probably, this would mean the novel hasn't finished yet. And one of the reviewers in Amazon says: "Although the subtitle of Vol. 3 is 'end', the story continues." As I'm not a keen audience for this series and haven't read the novel, I'm not sure about it. This is so pretentious lol. |
kuroneko99Jan 28, 2020 2:42 AM
| @eWEQRW123123 that is some diving analysis done right. Coming from the earlier post I've made, the main thing about this show has always been about the Bible and its biblical terms against the entire world a.k.a the Whore of Babylon Ai Magase herself vs. the world that's full of sin. And if you hadn't realized it yet, please go back to Episode 11. And again, as much as the anime tried to take a book off Mado Nozaki's complete novel, it was an open-ended ending just as expected. Remember Episode 11's opening where the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden were told NOT to consume the fruit in the garden? That's the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, seemingly what the world wants: they're all Adams and Eves before the Serpent of Evil, Ai Magase herself. She IS A TEST to see how much mankind has succumbed to the idea of "heaven and hell" even if God and sin do not exist in the fictional world. Then again, if sin already existed in the world, the interpretation of "good and evil" in this last episode was done right IMO. There is NO CLEAR-CUT ANSWER to what is right or wrong, and that is dependant on each and everyone of us to see duly. NOT EVERYONE will like this ending because it kills off the entire build-up in the past few episodes, ESPECIALLY Episode 11's opening prologue of the Whore of Babylon (if you'd get it then good for you, but if not, PLEASE READ IT UP), and this is where I'd felt Mado Nozaki kinda had a 20/20 vision of what is "right or wrong" in the 1st place. IN THE END, it's up to us to define that and mankind will still fall in on sin while the Serpent of the Garden of Eden creeps up on us to do evil. It was a great ending, though the foreshadowing was somewhat drastic from expected. |
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| I guess "continuing" to torture and kill people is good then. Jks, but seriously. Nothing is ever that simple. I'm pissed that bitch is still breathing. She needs to get away from that child. Fuck. #Zendeservedbetter |
| That was a rather anticlimactic ending, though fitting considering how much of a mess Babylon's second half was. Suppose some quick thoughts on things... 1. Ai Magase: Ai's very character proved to be the most frustrating element of the series for me in later episodes since her seemingly supernatural nature went against the realistic mood that Babylon had in its earlier episodes. Worst still, her true nature and abilities were never defined thus it seemed she existed as a convenient plot device to shift the series into whichever direction it desired. 2. Suicide law: I assumed this was going to be the main focus of the show as episodes progressed. The debate on the matter while in Japan did offer some solid points on the moral ambiguity of the act of suicide in specific circumstances and I was at first under the impression that shady political and corporate activity of some sort was at play with the law's existence. But things derailed with it in the final arc of the series as for whatever reason, focus shifted internationally and mostly every country was considering adopting their own suicide laws following Japan's, not helped by Ai Magase's role as convenient plot device to cause all hell to break loose in the final episode. 3. What's good and evil?: The attempt at dabbling into this in episode 11 felt quite pointless and pretentious at that stage within the series, not helped by Babylon not seeming to have a clue what it wanted to concisely focus on with its final arc. Want a series that explores moral ambiguity while retaining a realistic mood and clear direction as a crime thriller/ drama? Naoki Urasawa's Monster does this much better than this mess of a series. |
| I swear this creator is doing this on purpose. First with Kado and now Babylon, luring us in with interesting premise and making us think we'll get a good show and then ends up throwing a bunch of random shit together at the end. He's probably laughing at our misery. I won't be fooled a 3rd time! 4/10 |
| Also i think i understand what the "magase appears in front Sezakis son" was supposed to mean. It means that the fight against the always existing evil (Magase) is now passed down to Sezakis son. Makase calls him a "good boy" maybe indicating that he is her next opponent (her opposite). |
| Overall, a very good 1st half, and a pretty weak 2nd half of the show. With the President's conclusion that good = continuing and evil = to end, being manipulated into committing suicide by Magase would have contradicted his earlier notion, and as a result, the suicide law may have been passed. The President was basically putting the ball in Zen's court and asking him to make a decision. Kill the president or let him kill himself, knowing the consequences for each. With Magase still being alive, Zen's either killed himself or shot and purposely missed. All in all, I'd probably give it 7/10. |
| Something that was never really explained was that Seizaki Zen is able to talk to Magase and wasn't pushed into doing something "evil" ie: comitting suicide. This is just a theory but after Seizaki first interrogated Magase I believe he acted a bit differently throughout the rest of the show. He overall just seemed very much out for Magase's blood, more "evil." If Magase's "power" is to influence people to do "evil" and at the end of the series they give evil the defintion of "to end" then I believe its not too far fetched to assume Seizaki was influenced to do evil after he interrogated Magase. As I mentioned previously he seemed a lot more out for blood after speaking to Magase, he then kills Alexander and presumably himself based on the last scene considering his son wasn't seen with either his mom or Seizaki himself and instead Magase. So in the end Magase did in fact influence Seizaki just like anyone else to do what the show defines as "evil." While the ending itself didn't really give much closure or a concrete ending with an explanation of what happened and why, that does not simply mean it was a poor or bad ending, I believe it leaves the ending up for theorizing for the consumer to think about. It was an interesting ending, I liked it. In fact trying to explain why someone has a supernatural power that makes people do evil and the reasoning behind it I think would honestly make the show worse. |
ZrynJan 27, 2020 9:21 PM
| Magase used gender card to escape, either way, zen has gun obviously so yeah and uh US cops nuff said Evil wins, Magase gets a nice cozy vacation with her son, fair enough 6/10 a disappointment with a all that hype but I wouldn't say it's a massive disappointment |
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| I wanted the President's Thinker abilities to reverse Uno Magase and make her so that she'll surrender. but what we got is what I have expected sadly it was a 9/10 but I'm reducing it to 8/10 it has some good part. |
| Well, Babylon have been quite the ride. This anime have been controversial from the start and the final episode took this sentiment one step further as we can clearly see from the episode's voting. One thing for sure is that it have kept viewers interested enough to complete the series even after a 1 month break. This thread is a little more than 24 hours old and it already got as much votes as Beastars final episode that aired a month ago! It's a common theme to have open ends in thrillers and let the viewer paint the ending with his own interpretation, this happens not only on anime but also movies, especially Asian ones and i think this is what the author wanted to do here. A thriller is supposed to play with your senses and keep you on your feet generating suspense and i truly believe Babylon has achieved that right from the start. On the other hand Babylon has created a lot of hype so i can understand why so many are scoring it so low based on their "disappointment", as they probably expected a different type of conclusion or maybe a more detailed one. That's not my case, i am satisfied with the conclusion of this story. I enjoyed the finale a lot, we as viewers got bamboozled with last episode's cliffhanger thinking 'Magase was the one at the top of the building', posters were even calling it "obvious", yet Babylon surprised us once again, it was just a bluff, the plot has been quite unpredictable since the start. When everything seemed to be taking a safe path after the President talked to the girl, out of nowhere comes Ai Magase with a pysco-sona rattack! The sound was done great on that scene, there's been some very compelling low key attributes of this series that's been great the whole season like the sound direction, the OST, the video edition have all been top notch, they have greatly contribute to generate a latent atmosphere of tension. It was a wonderful episode since Ai Magase's appearance and the conclusion of having Zen kill the president makes me think that it was not a total victory to Magase since the message given to the entire population that the President of the US would get killed is very different than him suiciding especially with the rise of the suicide law's worldwide talk. After that my interpretation is that Zen gets caught on Magase's spell before answering her questions about good and evil and he is unable to pull the trigger and ends up either shooting himself or getting shot with her escaping which is later confirmed with the post-credits scene in which i believe Magase is just clearing everyone possible related to knowing of her existence. 5/5 episode and a solid 8/10 for Babylon, i'm glad to see more anime series aimed at older audiences with stories that feels fresh and takes risks compared to other contemporary "follow the success-formula" popular anime. Hopefully we get to see more seinen that explore different delicate themes in 2020. |
SoulblightJan 27, 2020 11:17 PM
| The first two episodes of Babylon were quite good, after that everything became a mess. Ai Magase could have been a great villain, but she is just too powerful, unbelievable powerful. So almighty that it became ridiculous and that she is surviving this whole show is even more ridiculous. Shitty final to a mediocre show which explained nothing at all. 4/10 |
| Ego = 1 / Knowledge | "More the Knowledge Lesser the Ego, Lesser the Knowledge More the Ego." Albert Einstein My ratings:  |
| Very entertaining Final Episode... Well, this is pretty hard.... But we all know that we are gonna agree that this final will divide our opinions as f*ck... The first episodes, were very shocking... In the mid ones the trama grew as hell... And in the last ones, it became more complex... = making it even more diffiicult to end it well. But, in my opinion, despite some minor detailes i didnt liked.... it was a Very Good Final... Not Great nor Awesome, but neither Bad or Boring... Just Good enough and the right one to close this series or at least this season. It would be interesting to get a Second Season, but this ending also opened TOO much the series... (or never closed it at all) And saddly, most of the times... this makes second season, pretty bad. (i hope im wrong, and i hope we get more Magase). PS: the ED Songs were pretty great... Started with 8/10... Ended with 8/10. |
YuyoAlbertoJan 28, 2020 6:44 AM
| Super interesting plot and concept for majority of its run, but I lost a little interest in it during the second half with the inconclusive ending. Ai Magase is a fantastic villain, she was definitely the highlight of the anime. Ending fell into a predictable trope, once Zen was granted privilege to a gun I suspected he'd end up using it on the Alex Wood himself because of Ai. Overall a solid 9/10 in my book, wish it was more conclusive though. I don't think it really needs a season 2 or anything though, better to just let it stay as it is. I very much enjoyed my time with it. |
jungsae said: pretty much, she was a disappointing villain. we didn't really understand her intentions other than she's fucking crazy. I prefer other detective shows like PP and monster where the villain had motives and you can see how they turned into a mess who liked killing. This one was just "look, a hot girl who can hypnotize people into killing themselves"what a lazy writing, good god. idek what made me cringe harder, the villain whose entire character is literally "let's say, she evil and has psychic powers", or the show's attempts to look deep by vomiting pseudo philosophical ramblings for five episodes straight. |
| Brainless people dont'n understand this title, and will have butthurt in finale ))) |
| So many questions unanswered. |
| I'm tired of the people in this thread saying that anyone who scores this show a low score must automatically mean we're too stupid to understand this mess that is called Babylon. evaw said: The title was explained in the anime already. Trust me, dude, we all get the title. It's not that deep.Brainless people dont'n understand this title, and will have butthurt in finale ))) |
HaXXspetten said: Uhm... what? That's it? I really don't get it. Why did he even have to shoot the president to begin with, but more importantly that was such an anticlimatic ending anyway. So much plot potential that they never did anything with and it all feels like it amounted to nothing in the end I still liked the show a lot for most of its airing but... yeah that wasn't a great ending >_> If he didn't kill the president, the president would have killed himself, giving an official declaration on America's stance on the suicide law. Kanae would have followed suit, and then the suicide law wouldn't have a chance at being stopped |
  We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think? ------------------------------------ Itachi Uchiha |
| I feel like, that was either an ending you'll love or hate. Before this episode, I was ready to give it a solid 7/10; I really enjoyed the philosophical drama and thematic concerns. Then I saw the ending, and the rating became a 9/10. I thought that ending embodied the nuances explored throughout the show. Each character was on a journey, and none of them mattered at all in the greater context - only in their miniature microcosms. Then I saw the after credit scene, and Babylon became the second show that defies the rating parameters I set myself - It's now a 10. The concept that Magase is the only character that truly mattered, that truly continued is so thematically relevant it's incredible. But it's layered so deep. Personally, I think that was the best ending the show could have from an artistic/textual perspective. |
We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think? ------------------------------------ Itachi Uchiha |
liamhabib said: I know that much, but my point is the whole show kinda revolved around the topic of whether the suicide law was right or wrong in general and there isn't really an obvious answer to it. So if the president eventually arrived at the conclusion that it is fine then shooting him just seems paradoxical to me. It's like saying that because the suicide law is good, therefore it is evil and must be prevented, so to speak. By shooting him, to me Seizaki only proves that he is wrong. If he can't convince him that suicide is wrong and therefore not jumping then I think he should just let him jump. Shooting him just shows that he was unable to objectively prove that suicide is evilHaXXspetten said: Uhm... what? That's it? I really don't get it. Why did he even have to shoot the president to begin with, but more importantly that was such an anticlimatic ending anyway. So much plot potential that they never did anything with and it all feels like it amounted to nothing in the end I still liked the show a lot for most of its airing but... yeah that wasn't a great ending >_> If he didn't kill the president, the president would have killed himself, giving an official declaration on America's stance on the suicide law. Kanae would have followed suit, and then the suicide law wouldn't have a chance at being stopped But idk the whole thing can be interpreted in many different ways. Would've been better if they were more clear with what they wanted with the anime in general imo |
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| I completely disagree with a theory that existence itself is the good thing. |
HaXXspetten said: liamhabib said: I know that much, but my point is the whole show kinda revolved around the topic of whether the suicide law was right or wrong in general and there isn't really an obvious answer to it. So if the president eventually arrived at the conclusion that it is fine then shooting him just seems paradoxical to me. It's like saying that because the suicide law is good, therefore it is evil and must be prevented, so to speak. By shooting him, to me Seizaki only proves that he is wrong. If he can't convince him that suicide is wrong and therefore not jumping then I think he should just let him jump. Shooting him just shows that he was unable to objectively prove that suicide is evilIf he didn't kill the president, the president would have killed himself, giving an official declaration on America's stance on the suicide law. Kanae would have followed suit, and then the suicide law wouldn't have a chance at being stopped But idk the whole thing can be interpreted in many different ways. Would've been better if they were more clear with what they wanted with the anime in general imo From the 'apple of Eden' metaphor, I believe Alex was saying that, despite his arrival at the meaning of 'good' (ultimately siding against the suicide law), he had been corrupted by the personification of what he classifies as 'evil' (Magase). And to prevent the suicide law and therefore prevent the widespread flooding of 'evil', zen had to commit an act of evil. I think this is where his name is extremely relevant to the thematic concerns and symbolism; zen (which as you know means 'good'), must perform evil to preserve the veil of 'good', which in it of itself poses a myriad of philosophical questions, like: 'is good just a veil, hiding the truth?' |
We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think? ------------------------------------ Itachi Uchiha |
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