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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Ash getting into trouble again as usual... I feel bad for him this episode. The amount of abuse he has to deal is hard to watch. The final few minutes of the episode was badass. Some individuals in this series can really be very dangerous. |
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| A lot was cut out, rearranged and many scenes were significantly truncated for time. I wish MAPPA did not cut out the fact Sing figured out that Ash's eyes were tampered with and he was blind at the opera. I had hoped they would skip that scene with Golzine but I guess it needs to be driven home to the audience the other stuff he no doubt does to Ash. Yut Lung is jealous son of a dead whore bitch trash. Way to keep blaming Eiji for the shit you decide to pull. |
| Eiji and Sing's group plan to infiltrate Golzine's party, and Ash continues to deal with Golzine's abuse (to the point that he basically snapped). We also learned a little more about Blanca's past. The stage is being set for the final stretch and it looks to be pretty intense. |
| People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime. Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait. MAL is literally just anime Twitter as its own website lol. |
| I'm going to say it Ash and Golzine's "relationship" is intriguing, a perfect example of a deranged man wanting to "raise" a broken boy I don't know what was cut from the manga, but the entire episode had a good flow and didn't feel rushed I am very curious and i will surely read the manga after this finishes |
| May our sweet and Merciful Madoka be with you |
| It felt rushed, but it was an interesting episode. Poor Ash never gets a break from being treated like shit. In this anime, we've seen him go to jail, him being drugged up many times, him being forced to kill a very close friend of his and Eiji's, him being abused, etc. It's amazing to see him still alive after all that. |
| Another powerful, yet vexing episode. Eiji took the initiative to find out what happened with Ash, and Yut-Lung said to his face that it was 'his fault', that Ash threw everything away to save him; but fortunately Eiji is done with blaming himself, and instead he is working with Sing, and the others to rescue Ash. Poor Ash though, he's going through hell yet again, and now Golzine wants to be his 'father'. The scene with Ash breaking down, remembering some of the gruesome things he had to go through because of that despicable, this word doesn't even cover it, fiend was really heartbreaking. It wasn't even all, but it's too much, no wonder he preferred to die, even if unconsciously, than to remain like that. Blanca is terrible too, telling Ash to "take care", when his predicament is pretty much his fault, even though the guilty is shared with Yut-Lung. They pretty much worked together to ruin Ash's life in favor of Golzine for no good reason, other than money in Blanca's case, and for resenting Eiji in Yut-Lung's case. But well, Blanca, as insufferable as he is, has also a past, a sad one it seems, and he is now on Yut-Lung's side, he decided to protect him, and he couldn't have a better bodyguard. The nice part is that he won't kill anyone if it isn't to protect Yut-Lung. But well, Ash is pretty much a living corpse, and it's up to Eiji, Sing, and the others to save him, I hope Max, and Ibe will join the action. |
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| Blancas face after Lee cock blocked him xD And well, he got blackmailed by him too. Wonder what course of action he's going to follow now, but I guess he might turn out to be a valueable asset when it comes to rescuing Ash, just in case that Lee is going to have a change of heart, tho. Ash already went through a lot of shit, but this time it seems even worse and all that for Eiji :/ Hope we get to see a happy end and Golzine suffer, guy is one of the most hated characters of the year for me. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Before the epsiode: i am stressed After the episode: I A M M O R E S T R E S S E D No, but seriously.... my heart broke... just ash... I cant put it into words how sad and empty I feel after watching this. its awful. nobody spoil me on this PLEASE, but if banana fish doesn't get a happy ending idk what im going to do |
| Blanca finally agreeing to work for Yut Lung but only as a bodyguard, I must say they would be a deadly combination especially against Ash. Ash's soul is still tied up Golzine and I must say he really isn't enjoying it. Best part was when Eiji and Sing along with the rest of the gang are plotting to save Ash from those monsters, I'm also glad Cain is joining in. Better episode, |
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
| Banana Fish is worrying me so hard ;_; I barely want to watch each episode fearing that some sad shit is going to strike my screen... End my Misery |
| "We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes." ~Blackwall |
| It seems that Ash has just lost his will to live. |
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
| The situation got darker and darker :( What will come to Ash? Just watching him in a wheelchair with lifeless eyes broke my heart! Golzine is pure evil! |
 [*]My Completed List [*]♪Listen ► [/list][/left] |
| Ash has disappeared, so Eiji and Max are looking for him, even with Sing, to the point that Eiji got to Yut-Lung looking for clues, only obtaining that Ash is in Golzine's claws again. Golzine has been using Ash to expose the projects that he will continue using to keep government and high ranges by his side (economic support too, I think). Max got fired from his work but luckily he saw Ash on TV with Golzine. In Golzine's mansion Ash doesn't look very well, with his health down, he was diagnosed with anorexy, which mixed with Ash's actual attitude enraged Golzine. Yut-Lung, after a failed attempt to put Blanca to his orders, finally got it investigating about his life. Then Sing and Blanca met in Yut-Lung's house entrance and discover that someone tried to kill Yut-Lung, so they started investigating as Eiji's crew are figuring out how they're gonna get to the coming Golzine's party. The episode is setting things. Yut-Lung manipulated lot of things in the past episodes, like a smart guy, but we still can see some insecurities in his personality, he's also jealous of Ash, which in Golzine's words, is the inheritor of his business. Ash is getting really fucked up, Blanca's word couldn't be more accurate, it's like looking a wild animal dying, rejecting every help. I think Eiji is gonna try to take him out of there. It's funny how everything would be different if Eiji had returned to Japan time ago. |
Atlas77Jan 1, 2019 8:30 PM
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| Damn! still keeps on getting better and better! 5/5. |
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Jane_Ackerman said: What's wrong with ash in those last minute? Why is his eyes are kinda dead? Did he got banana fished or he gave up on life? I really need answers. Plz help bcz i'm cryin' rn. Sorry for my bad english. no he didnt got banana fish just was drugged by golzine too make him blind for awhile like it was shown him sitting in the car |
KanneiNov 16, 2018 12:31 AM
Abbie_Blizzard said: Alright, can someone please explain to me WHY we hate Blanca??? Golzine is the most despicable human being I have ever seen portrayed in anime! Instead of whoring Ash out as he promised, he is actively going out of his way to destroy Ash's soul and sanity!! And then he has the nerve to get ANGRY when Ash does break?! THE KID HAS ANOREXIA AND IS GOING INSANE!!!! YOU POISONOUS TWERP!!! Lord help me, I swear this show will be the death of me... I don't hate Blanca. To me, he along with Eeji are the two most honest characters in the show. They are who they are who they are and don't act differently based on other variables like the other characters do. I still miss Shorter. THis episode was one of the best of the series so far. THings are building |
Abbie_Blizzard said: Alright, can someone please explain to me WHY we hate Blanca??? Golzine is the most despicable human being I have ever seen portrayed in anime! Instead of whoring Ash out as he promised, he is actively going out of his way to destroy Ash's soul and sanity!! And then he has the nerve to get ANGRY when Ash does break?! THE KID HAS ANOREXIA AND IS GOING INSANE!!!! YOU POISONOUS TWERP!!! Lord help me, I swear this show will be the death of me... another no. i dont hate blanca one bit since hes mysterious appearance at first and his care for his pupol is a lil a father figure for me too ash and more great scenes of them will come |
| The pacing is so much but it's still pretty much enjoyable. It's hilarious to watch Ash's nothing to lose mental state and the boss getting mad about that. There're many lives out there irl too, the adult hood is so harsh for some people.  |
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| Meh. The whole episode felt ludicrous. They completely butchered Ash's masterplan and gave him a stupid keikaku face. It actually was both clever and wicked in the manga. The breakdown scene was cringy as well. Everything in this adaptation seems over the top. Oh well, that's Utsumi for you. |
| And I was all ready with my popcorn for a second Candy Bar song, but instead all that happened at end of the ep... |
| Can somebody please kill Golzine already? |
Arethusa_Vespera said: Jane_Ackerman said: What's wrong with ash in those last minute? Why is his eyes are kinda dead? Did he got banana fished or he gave up on life? I really need answers. Plz help bcz i'm cryin' rn. Sorry for my bad english. They're going to the big party, so Golzine gave Ash another dose of the pupil-dilating drug. He still gave up on life though. So combination of drugs and dull eyes of sadness. mimimikachuu said: I knew trying to fit volumes 13-19 into the 6 remaining episodes was a little too much, and I knew they were going to end up cutting some stuff out. Unfortunately, the episode felt rushed, though that's to be expected. I agree that they should have included the scene where Sing picked up that Ash couldn't see at the opera. It's too bad the show is only 24 episodes. It probably would've done better at 36, pacing-wise. It would give time for the emotional scenes coming up to have greater power and meaning. I guess in the end, as long as I get my favorite scenes animated and the finale isn't rushed, I'll survive. I completely agree that it should have been about 36 episodes. A lot is going to be rushed and cut out. I'm thinking that character missing from the opening is going to be left out now. There is too much ground to cover. Abbie_Blizzard said: Alright, can someone please explain to me WHY we hate Blanca??? I don't hate Blanca but he's full of shit. I think he just wants Ash to be like him because he is miserable for losing the love of his life. So he wants Ash to give up on Eiji. @Lunallae had a discussion on why he first trained Ash but I think his advice would kill Ash's soul. I get why people hated him since he agreed to this job just to help mess with Ash's happiness. I hate Golzine and absolutely loathe Lee Yut-Lung. Also, a rabbit can't be friends with a lynx? Tiger and Bunny would say differently! HIATUS_X_HIATUS said: i might honestly stop watching this show for a while because ive already read the manga so i know whats coming, and its hard enough to be happy especially in these months so.. i wanna take care of myself Banana Fish Hell is real. |
MetaKiteNov 16, 2018 11:16 AM
| this was probably one of the more emotional and impactful episodes for me tbh. seeing what ash has to go through - even willingly starving himself to the point of developing anorexia - all for eiji's safety just kills me. i just want those two to be happy and live in a little house in the countryside for the rest of their lives, but sadly i know that's not what happens bc some people on tumblr won't shut up. guess i just gotta enjoy it while i can. |
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| That definitely felt like a lot was cut, but it was still pretty solid. Ash breaking down when Dino said he would adopt him was powerful. It seems that he is starving himself not because he wants to, but because the trauma is making it hard to eat. That is some messed up shit. |
| Imma really need Blanca to betray Dino real soon lol |
| “I love heroes, but I don't want to be one. Do you even know what a hero is!? For example, you have some meat. Pirates will feast on the meat, but the hero will distribute it among the people! I want to eat the meat!” - Monkey D. Luffy |
MetaKite said: I don't hate Blanca but he's full of shit. I think he just wants Ash to be like him because he is miserable for losing the love of his life. So he wants Ash to give up on Eiji. @Lunallae had a discussion on why he first trained Ash but I think his advice would kill Ash's soul. I get why people hated him since he agreed to this job just to help mess with Ash's happiness. I hate Golzine and absolutely loathe Lee Yut-Lung. Also, a rabbit can't be friends with a lynx? Tiger and Bunny would say differently! I wouldn't exactly say Blanca wants Ash to be like him, more that he wants to protect Ash from what he considers to be the worst regret of his life. I agree that Blanca's views are misguided though because Ash just isn't as mentally strong as him (and as shown in this episode, Ash's soul is practically shattered as a result). I don't really hate him nor like him. He's just a complex, well-written character that helps move the plot forward while also eventually bringing Banana Fish's main themes to the forefront of the narrative. |
| I was stunned during the whole episode, no joke. Ash's breakdown, Sing's and Eiji's plan to save Ash, Blanca's involvement with Yut-Lung, so many things happening! Psst, why is no one admiring Yuuma Uchida for his performance in this particular episode? His breakdown scene gotta be one of the best of Yuuma Uchida, the emotions just flew out and it was heartbreaking. Though his performance in Banana Fish is top-notch. |
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Lunallae said: MetaKite said: I don't hate Blanca but he's full of shit. I think he just wants Ash to be like him because he is miserable for losing the love of his life. So he wants Ash to give up on Eiji. @Lunallae had a discussion on why he first trained Ash but I think his advice would kill Ash's soul. I get why people hated him since he agreed to this job just to help mess with Ash's happiness. I hate Golzine and absolutely loathe Lee Yut-Lung. Also, a rabbit can't be friends with a lynx? Tiger and Bunny would say differently! I wouldn't exactly say Blanca wants Ash to be like him, more that he wants to protect Ash from what he considers to be the worst regret of his life. I agree that Blanca's views are misguided though because Ash just isn't as mentally strong as him (and as shown in this episode, Ash's soul is practically shattered as a result). I don't really hate him nor like him. He's just a complex, well-written character that helps move the plot forward while also eventually bringing Banana Fish's main themes to the forefront of the narrative. Yet he wants Ash to conform to this world of darkness for "safety" reasons. Surely, he must realize the underworld they live in would leave Ash worse off (and he sees the effects firsthand). Still he persists that Ash stay even after Ash has told him that this has never been what he wants. My issue with Blanca is that he knows it's his very presence that makes Ash comply with Golzine and nothing more. Had he turned down Golzine instead of accepting just to test Ash's skill set, I would consider him a man of integrity. He's also wrong to view Eiji as just a weakness of Ash that makes Ash vulnerable. He is misunderstanding Ash just like Yut-Lung only Blanca seems to be willfully ignorant. So to me he is full of it shit because he knows better. All he did was knowingly crush the one thing that makes Ash happy. TheOneOfSeven said: Psst, why is no one admiring Yuuma Uchida for his performance in this particular episode? His breakdown scene gotta be one of the best of Yuuma Uchida, the emotions just flew out and it was heartbreaking. Though his performance in Banana Fish is top-notch. This series has had amazing acting from all of the cast. I hope Ushida wins an award. |
MetaKiteNov 18, 2018 1:23 AM
| Ash doesn't mind using his body but knowing that he could hurt many others, that bothers him the most. He went on hunger strike but when Golzine threatened to kill Eiji if he did that, he changed his mind. That scene where Ash had a breakdown in front of Golzine was heartbreaking and wonderful job on the voice actor's, Uchida Yuuma, for delivering those lines with great emotion. Sing was so cute when he was yelling at Blanca. He was like a tiny pup barking up at a great dane or newfoundland dog for being bigger than him. There are times when I like Yut Lung as a villain and there are times when he's being whiny and needs to be bitch slapped. He's being petty and wants to hire Blanca, a professional mercenary to kill someone like Eiji who is physically weak and isn't much of a threat to him physically or in any way. Who knows though, it might be Eiji who kills him later proving me wrong but still. |
| 臭い- |
MetaKite said: Yet he wants Ash to conform to this world of darkness for "safety" reasons. Surely, he must realize the underworld they live in would leave Ash worse off (and he sees the effects firsthand). Still he persists that Ash stay even after Ash has told him that this has never been what he wants. My issue with Blanca is that he knows it's his very presence that makes Ash comply with Golzine and nothing more. Had he turned down Golzine instead of accepting just to test Ash's skill set, I would consider him a man of integrity. He's also wrong to view Eiji as just a weakness of Ash that makes Ash vulnerable. He is misunderstanding Ash just like Yut-Lung only Blanca seems to be willfully ignorant. So to me he is full of it shit because he knows better. All he did was knowingly crush the one thing that makes Ash happy. I would argue that before this episode, Blanca truly believed it was the best course of action for Ash to return to Golzine. That's because Blanca seems to follow a pragmatic code where survival is the most important aspect of life, not one's emotions. Blanca truly believes Ash cannot win against Golzine, so he takes a job that would bring Ash back to what he thinks is the best course for Ash's life. Naturally, that outlook would neglect all of Ash's emotions - his love for Eiji and his hatred for Golzine. Blanca is incredibly misguided and I'm sure he's even beginning to realize that in this episode after seeing the deterioration of Ash's mental health. As for Blanca's viewpoint on Eiji... |
Lunallae said: I agree his is projecting but I feel like he should know better than to ask a kid to forfeit his feelings after the he told Blanca that he's happy as is. Ash has already given up a lot besides his body and physical expression of intimacy on his terms to that life and any aspiration for normalcy. Does Ash even know what it means to have dignity after the childhood he had? It pisses me off that Blanca believes Ash needs to sacrifice more. What is the point of living if one cannot be happy? This is why I think Blanca should know better and is full of shit for saying Ash should give in. Ash had not given up yet before he told Blanca he was happy. MetaKite said: Yet he wants Ash to conform to this world of darkness for "safety" reasons. Surely, he must realize the underworld they live in would leave Ash worse off (and he sees the effects firsthand). Still he persists that Ash stay even after Ash has told him that this has never been what he wants. My issue with Blanca is that he knows it's his very presence that makes Ash comply with Golzine and nothing more. Had he turned down Golzine instead of accepting just to test Ash's skill set, I would consider him a man of integrity. He's also wrong to view Eiji as just a weakness of Ash that makes Ash vulnerable. He is misunderstanding Ash just like Yut-Lung only Blanca seems to be willfully ignorant. So to me he is full of it shit because he knows better. All he did was knowingly crush the one thing that makes Ash happy. I would argue that before this episode, Blanca truly believed it was the best course of action for Ash to return to Golzine. That's because Blanca seems to follow a pragmatic code where survival is the most important aspect of life, not one's emotions. Blanca truly believes Ash cannot win against Golzine, so he takes a job that would bring Ash back to what he thinks is the best course for Ash's life. Naturally, that outlook would neglect all of Ash's emotions - his love for Eiji and his hatred for Golzine. Blanca is incredibly misguided and I'm sure he's even beginning to realize that in this episode after seeing the deterioration of Ash's mental health. As for Blanca's viewpoint on Eiji... Also, Eiji made a choice so Ash is not being selfish to want to spend his time with him. Eiji is also a source of strength for Ash so it's disappointing that someone like Blanca chooses to ignore that much. |
MetaKiteNov 18, 2018 1:38 PM
MetaKite said: I agree his is projecting but I feel like he should know better than to ask a kid to forfeit his feelings after the he told Blanca that he's happy as is. Ash has already given up a lot besides his body and physical expression of intimacy on his terms to that life and any aspiration for normalcy. Does Ash even know what it means to have dignity after the childhood he had? It pisses me off that Blanca believes Ash needs to sacrifice more. What is the point of living if one cannot be happy? This is why I think Blanca should know better and is full of shit for saying Ash should give in. Ash had not given up yet before he told Blanca he was happy. Also, Eiji made a choice so Ash is not being selfish to want to spend his time with him. Eiji is also a source of strength for Ash so it's disappointing that someone like Blanca chooses to ignore that much. Well... I'm pretty sure due to his background, Blanca cannot comprehend how important happiness is to some people (I believe Blanca described himself as unfeeling at one point). It's a matter of ideologies. But regardless of whether Blanca's ideology is right or wrong, I think it's just important to understand where he comes from. We don't need to agree with him; in fact, I believe most of us would agree that Blanca's beliefs are wrong, especially in Ash's context. But I don't think he had malicious intent. He's just an example of an ignorant father figure that pushes their own ideologies on to others, believing it's the right way to live because that's how they survived and succeeded. Agreed. I put selfish in quotes because Ash really isn't. But in Blanca's point of view (and likely also in Ash's own point of view), Ash is being "selfish" because his feelings could lead to Eiji's death. |
Lunallae said: MetaKite said: I agree his is projecting but I feel like he should know better than to ask a kid to forfeit his feelings after the he told Blanca that he's happy as is. Ash has already given up a lot besides his body and physical expression of intimacy on his terms to that life and any aspiration for normalcy. Does Ash even know what it means to have dignity after the childhood he had? It pisses me off that Blanca believes Ash needs to sacrifice more. What is the point of living if one cannot be happy? This is why I think Blanca should know better and is full of shit for saying Ash should give in. Ash had not given up yet before he told Blanca he was happy. Also, Eiji made a choice so Ash is not being selfish to want to spend his time with him. Eiji is also a source of strength for Ash so it's disappointing that someone like Blanca chooses to ignore that much. Well... I'm pretty sure due to his background, Blanca cannot comprehend how important happiness is to some people (I believe Blanca described himself as unfeeling at one point). It's a matter of ideologies. But regardless of whether Blanca's ideology is right or wrong, I think it's just important to understand where he comes from. We don't need to agree with him; in fact, I believe most of us would agree that Blanca's beliefs are wrong, especially in Ash's context. But I don't think he had malicious intent. He's just an example of an ignorant father figure that pushes their own ideologies on to others, believing it's the right way to live because that's how they survived and succeeded. Agreed. I put selfish in quotes because Ash really isn't. But in Blanca's point of view (and likely also in Ash's own point of view), Ash is being "selfish" because his feelings could lead to Eiji's death. Ignorant father figure is putting it lightly. Ash does believe he is being selfish because he believes what Blanca is telling him. It's no wonder Ash's mind is always in a dark place and thinking about death all the time when this is the "good" advice the adults around him are giving him. Nobody, including Blanca, cares what Ash wants. It's awful that Blanca is supposed to be a source of positivity for Ash when he's not much different than Ash's bio-dad who wants him to come to terms with his abusers. This puts him on par with Ash's abusers to me. He may mean no harm but his methods are no better. So I would say he does want Ash to be unfeeling like him. You read the manga and you know which chapter in vol 18 always makes my heart sink because Ash was still listening to Blanca's bad advice. |
MetaKite said: Ignorant father figure is putting it lightly. Ash does believe he is being selfish because he believes what Blanca is telling him. It's no wonder Ash's mind is always in a dark place and thinking about death all the time when this is the "good" advice the adults around him are giving him. Nobody, including Blanca, cares what Ash wants. It's awful that Blanca is supposed to be a source of positivity for Ash when he's not much different than Ash's bio-dad who wants him to come to terms with his abusers. This puts him on par with Ash's abusers to me. He may mean no harm but his methods are no better. So I would say he does want Ash to be unfeeling like him. You read the manga and you know which chapter in vol 18 always makes my heart sink because Ash was still listening to Blanca's bad advice. I know exactly which scene you're talking about and I can see where you're coming from but putting Blanca on par with Ash's abusers is a bit harsh in my opinion. I agree that Blanca's methods are no better as he and Ash's abusers all don't care about Ash's feelings. But the reason behind his methods is "love," not possession (I wouldn't really call it "love" but I can't think of a better term for it at the moment). And in general, there is a lot of reason in what Blanca says as cutting emotional ties would objectively be the best way to survive. However, like you said, "what is the point of living if one cannot be happy?" The idea of what it means to live is a prominent theme in Banana Fish and I think through Blanca, this idea is explored quite well. Ash wants to earnestly live; he doesn't want a fake life. But the sad reality is that achieving such a dream without dying in the process is so unlikely. This is the conundrum Banana Fish presents us with and I don't think Blanca is inherently wrong for thinking the way he does. He is simply looking at it rationally while Ash is looking at it emotionally. I still would have to disagree with Blanca wanting Ash to be like him because the main reason Blanca speaks the way he does is so that Ash would not have to shoulder the same heavy burden of regret. Blanca says what he says exactly so that Ash won't end up like him as Blanca became unfeeling after regretting his decisions, not before. |
Lunallae said: I know exactly which scene you're talking about and I can see where you're coming from but putting Blanca on par with Ash's abusers is a bit harsh in my opinion. I agree that Blanca's methods are no better as he and Ash's abusers all don't care about Ash's feelings. But the reason behind his methods is "love," not possession (I wouldn't really call it "love" but I can't think of a better term for it at the moment). And in general, there is a lot of reason in what Blanca says as cutting emotional ties would objectively be the best way to survive. However, like you said, "what is the point of living if one cannot be happy?" The idea of what it means to live is a prominent theme in Banana Fish and I think through Blanca, this idea is explored quite well. Ash wants to earnestly live; he doesn't want a fake life. But the sad reality is that achieving such a dream without dying in the process is so unlikely. This is the conundrum Banana Fish presents us with and I don't think Blanca is inherently wrong for thinking the way he does. He is simply looking at it rationally while Ash is looking at it emotionally. I still would have to disagree with Blanca wanting Ash to be like him because the main reason Blanca speaks the way he does is so that Ash would not have to shoulder the same heavy burden of regret. Blanca says what he says exactly so that Ash won't end up like him as Blanca became unfeeling after regretting his decisions, not before. It maybe harsh but it is accurate. He is telling Ash to go back to his most frequent and worst rapist because the rapist at least wants him alive and won't kill him. A rapist that wants to break Ash of any free will so he can rape him without issue, dare call it consensual sex and "allow" him to inherit his position. He's not just complicit to Golzine's abuse, he's an accomplice! I would say that's on par! The word you're looking for is affection. Affection when applied in a harmful way is toxic. Look at Golzine's "love" for Ash. Something Ash could tolerate if he got a lobotomy or ceased being who he is, died inside and became unfeeling. How is that "good" for Ash in Blanca's mind? Actual death is preferable. Being unfeeling would let Ash survive but it's not living. He wouldn't be alive. For Ash it would be the equivalent of being a vegetable but far worse as they want him to put his skills to harm people, like his brother Griffin was harmed, so their criminal organization can profit. Not to mention what Golzine personally does to Ash. Blanca is terrible and it's selling short just how terrible by saying it's simply "misguided". Also, sort of off topic, I think the character missing from the opening will be cut. I don't mind if it means dealing with one less of Ash's abusers. |
MetaKiteNov 19, 2018 2:26 PM
MetaKite said: It maybe harsh but it is accurate. He is telling Ash to go back to his most frequent and worst rapist because the rapist at least wants him alive and won't kill him. A rapist that wants to break Ash of any free will so he can rape him without issue, dare call it consensual sex and "allow" him to inherit his position. He's not just complicit to Golzine's abuse, he's an accomplice! I would say that's on par! The word you're looking for is affection. Affection when applied in a harmful way is toxic. Look at Golzine's "love" for Ash. Something Ash could tolerate if he got a lobotomy or ceased being who he is, died inside and became unfeeling. How is that "good" for Ash in Blanca's mind? Actual death is preferable. Being unfeeling would let Ash survive but it's not living. He wouldn't be alive. For Ash it would be the equivalent of being a vegetable but far worse as they want him to put his skills to harm people, like his brother Griffin was harmed, so their criminal organization can profit. Not to mention what Golzine personally does to Ash. Blanca is terrible and it's selling short just how terrible by saying it's simply "misguided". Also, sort of off topic, I think the character missing from the opening will be cut. I don't mind if it means dealing with one less of Ash's abusers. I mean, you're not wrong in how you chose to view Blanca's involvement. But I feel there is a difference between Ash's abusers and Blanca mainly because Blanca does care and his affection (thanks, that was the word) towards Ash is selfless. Meanwhile, as much as Golzine does "love" Ash, first and foremost, he wants to possess and use Ash. But that's just way I see it and maybe I only feel this way because I have a father who is very much like Blanca (a logical individual that pushes his ideology onto his children). I don't think that excuses his behavior (I will never accept the pragmatic part of my father even if I can understand why he is like that), but I think it differentiates him from those who actively rape Ash. Well, that would be a matter of perspective, would it not? For some, death would be better (like for Ash). For others, it might not be as the eventual and inevitable freedom would be enough to sustain them through those years of anguish. I personally think Blanca's actions can just come down to not really understanding Ash at a fundamental level, which is why I use the term "misguided." Of course morally, Blanca is completely in the wrong for willfully subjecting Ash to Golzine’s abuse, but his logic is not flawed; his values are just different. Also, just wondering, is there any irrefutable proof that Blanca actually knows that Golzine abused Ash? We have been discussing this under the assumption he does (which is the most reasonable interpretation) but I have always considered that there is a possibility that Blanca doesn't know about the abuse. This is especially so with the dialogue that Ash had with Blanca last episode, specifically how Ash does not mention the elephant in the room that makes me feel like Blanca might not know. I'm beginning to think so too. But I don't want to get my hopes up because there's still a possibility that he'll be included. |
Lunallae said: Good points but Ash went back to Golzine because he FEARS Blanca. So even if Blanca is not taking part of the abuse, he is the reason Ash is back there for more abuse and knows it. There is no reason Blanca could have looked at the situation and said "Monsieur Golzine, I change my mind. I'm not taking this case nor your money. I'm going to leave Ash and his friend alone". He's already retired so how would he hurt his reputation? Is he afraid Golzine would declare war on him for not helping? There was no reason for him to take that job and his reasons for taking it are flimsy at best. At worst it's to make Ash like him and forcing him to give up his freedom. I don't know how many works I have read that have illustrated how pragmatism and logic are not necessarily great traits to have when they tend to ignore empathy. Despite Blanca's affection for Ash, he seems to be lacking some real empathy for the boy. Yeah, that's changing after seeing Ash nearly die but he should have seen that or at least tried to understand his former pupil. I really have not seen the same empathy in Blanca like he had for Ash when they first met. Now he just wants Ash to throw away that raw emotion which endeared Ash to him in the first place. But no, he had to prioritize other values than what matters to Ash.I mean, you're not wrong in how you chose to view Blanca's involvement. But I feel there is a difference between Ash's abusers and Blanca mainly because Blanca does care and his affection (thanks, that was the word) towards Ash is selfless. Meanwhile, as much as Golzine does "love" Ash, first and foremost, he wants to possess and use Ash. But that's just way I see it and maybe I only feel this way because I have a father who is very much like Blanca (a logical individual that pushes his ideology onto his children). I don't think that excuses his behavior (I will never accept the pragmatic part of my father even if I can understand why he is like that), but I think it differentiates him from those who actively rape Ash. Well, that would be a matter of perspective, would it not? For some, death would be better (like for Ash). For others, it might not be as the eventual and inevitable freedom would be enough to sustain them through those years of anguish. I personally think Blanca's actions can just come down to not really understanding Ash at a fundamental level, which is why I use the term "misguided." Of course morally, Blanca is completely in the wrong for willfully subjecting Ash to Golzine’s abuse, but his logic is not flawed; his values are just different. Also, just wondering, is there any irrefutable proof that Blanca actually knows that Golzine abused Ash? We have been discussing this under the assumption he does (which is the most reasonable interpretation) but I have always considered that there is a possibility that Blanca doesn't know about the abuse. This is especially so with the dialogue that Ash had with Blanca last episode, specifically how Ash does not mention the elephant in the room that makes me feel like Blanca might not know. I'm beginning to think so too. But I don't want to get my hopes up because there's still a possibility that he'll be included. I don't think there is proof but thinking back to their first meeting and how Dino treated Ash who had clearly just been assaulted, there is no way a smart strategist like Blanca did not pick up on it. It's never specifically mentioned by Ash because it doesn't need to be. Blanca knows but as you said, seems to think Ash can handle it all mentally. I think it's blaming the victim to tell Ash he's being selfish when the truly selfish perps are Golzine and brat face Yut-Lung. Well, if he's included I'm afraid my favorite scene which is a literal punchline to the joke "Ash and Max walk into a gay bar" will be cut for time. I am really looking forward to that scene and if it's included to introduce him, I know it will cut all the humor from it. BTW Have I mentioned today how much I hate Yut-Lung? |
MetaKite said: Good points but Ash went back to Golzine because he FEARS Blanca. So even if Blanca is not taking part of the abuse, he is the reason Ash is back there for more abuse and knows it. There is no reason Blanca could have looked at the situation and said "Monsieur Golzine, I change my mind. I'm not taking this case nor your money. I'm going to leave Ash and his friend alone". He's already retired so how would he hurt his reputation? Is he afraid Golzine would declare war on him for not helping? There was no reason for him to take that job and his reasons for taking it are flimsy at best. At worst it's to make Ash like him and forcing him to give up his freedom. I don't know how many works I have read that have illustrated how pragmatism and logic are not necessarily great traits to have when they tend to ignore empathy. Despite Blanca's affection for Ash, he seems to be lacking some real empathy for the boy. Yeah, that's changing after seeing Ash nearly die but he should have seen that or at least tried to understand his former pupil. I really have not seen the same empathy in Blanca like he had for Ash when they first met. Now he just wants Ash to throw away that raw emotion which endeared Ash to him in the first place. But no, he had to prioritize other values than what matters to Ash. I don't think there is proof but thinking back to their first meeting and how Dino treated Ash who had clearly just been assaulted, there is no way a smart strategist like Blanca did not pick up on it. It's never specifically mentioned by Ash because it doesn't need to be. Blanca knows but as you said, seems to think Ash can handle it all mentally. I think it's blaming the victim to tell Ash he's being selfish when the truly selfish perps are Golzine and brat face Yut-Lung. Well, if he's included I'm afraid my favorite scene which is a literal punchline to the joke "Ash and Max walk into a gay bar" will be cut for time. I am really looking forward to that scene and if it's included to introduce him, I know it will cut all the humor from it. BTW Have I mentioned today how much I hate Yut-Lung? Agreed; however, at the time, and regardless of how morally wrong his viewpoint is, Blanca believed that it was for the best. He did force his position on Ash and neglected his feelings, but Blanca's actions were not done with malicious intent. He was simply ignorant of what values mattered to Ash because Blanca has his own perception of what matters in life. Now that you mention it, I have always believed that Blanca is afraid of many matters. He definitely fears autonomy because of the consequences it entails and I personally think he is also afraid of death (which is why I think he prioritizes survival above emotions). Of course. I was not trying to imply that Blanca's rational mindset was correct. It's a flawed way of thinking. But Ash's emotional mindset is also flawed, just for different reasons. Well, I would say that Blanca only shows empathy towards others if it aligns with the work he is given. He is bound more to his contract than his emotions so to speak. That's why in Private Opinion, he shows Ash a lot of empathy. That contrasted to now, where his contract conflicts with his emotions, he'll chose the duty he is given over empathy. Hmm... I think that there is room in this material to argue that Blanca actually doesn't know about the abuse. Naturally, I do think it's rather odd that someone as astute as Blanca would not realize this fact, but Golzine's behavior around Ash when Blanca is present is very restrained. And Dino did explain that that occurrence was not the first time an event such as that had happened so Blanca could have assumed Golzine's attitude had gotten jaded with each instance. Oh, I agree with that. It's the same reason why people blame the naivety of characters like Eiji when in reality, the ones that are to blame are those who take advantage of said naivety. But there is some truth in the fact that naivety and selfishness are qualities that you have control over; you have no control over what others do. Of course, blaming the victim is never right, but for someone like Blanca, who lives life safely, I can see why he believes Ash's "selfishness" is a bad quality. Yeah, I have a feeling that scene will be cut, or trimmed if it is included. There's just quite frankly not enough episodes left for the current amount of content that needs to be adapted. Haha, do you hate Yut-Lung more than Golzine? |
Lunallae said: I'm not arguing that Ash is flawed because he is. That poor kid has 99 issues and his self destructive behavior doesn't help him at all. After all, Ash chose revenge for Griffin and Shorter rather than getting the hell out of dodge with Eiji.MetaKite said: Good points but Ash went back to Golzine because he FEARS Blanca. So even if Blanca is not taking part of the abuse, he is the reason Ash is back there for more abuse and knows it. There is no reason Blanca could have looked at the situation and said "Monsieur Golzine, I change my mind. I'm not taking this case nor your money. I'm going to leave Ash and his friend alone". He's already retired so how would he hurt his reputation? Is he afraid Golzine would declare war on him for not helping? There was no reason for him to take that job and his reasons for taking it are flimsy at best. At worst it's to make Ash like him and forcing him to give up his freedom. I don't know how many works I have read that have illustrated how pragmatism and logic are not necessarily great traits to have when they tend to ignore empathy. Despite Blanca's affection for Ash, he seems to be lacking some real empathy for the boy. Yeah, that's changing after seeing Ash nearly die but he should have seen that or at least tried to understand his former pupil. I really have not seen the same empathy in Blanca like he had for Ash when they first met. Now he just wants Ash to throw away that raw emotion which endeared Ash to him in the first place. But no, he had to prioritize other values than what matters to Ash. I don't think there is proof but thinking back to their first meeting and how Dino treated Ash who had clearly just been assaulted, there is no way a smart strategist like Blanca did not pick up on it. It's never specifically mentioned by Ash because it doesn't need to be. Blanca knows but as you said, seems to think Ash can handle it all mentally. I think it's blaming the victim to tell Ash he's being selfish when the truly selfish perps are Golzine and brat face Yut-Lung. Well, if he's included I'm afraid my favorite scene which is a literal punchline to the joke "Ash and Max walk into a gay bar" will be cut for time. I am really looking forward to that scene and if it's included to introduce him, I know it will cut all the humor from it. BTW Have I mentioned today how much I hate Yut-Lung? Agreed; however, at the time, and regardless of how morally wrong his viewpoint is, Blanca believed that it was for the best. He did force his position on Ash and neglected his feelings, but Blanca's actions were not done with malicious intent. He was simply ignorant of what values mattered to Ash because Blanca has his own perception of what matters in life. Now that you mention it, I have always believed that Blanca is afraid of many matters. He definitely fears autonomy because of the consequences it entails and I personally think he is also afraid of death (which is why I think he prioritizes survival above emotions). Of course. I was not trying to imply that Blanca's rational mindset was correct. It's a flawed way of thinking. But Ash's emotional mindset is also flawed, just for different reasons. Well, I would say that Blanca only shows empathy towards others if it aligns with the work he is given. He is bound more to his contract than his emotions so to speak. That's why in Private Opinion, he shows Ash a lot of empathy. That contrasted to now, where his contract conflicts with his emotions, he'll chose the duty he is given over empathy. Yeah, this is not an argument in Blanca's favor. He's a villain regardless that is an accomplice to Ash's abusers. It doesn't matter if he meant no harm. Everything he did resulted in serious harm. Hmm... I think that there is room in this material to argue that Blanca actually doesn't know about the abuse. Naturally, I do think it's rather odd that someone as astute as Blanca would not realize this fact, but Golzine's behavior around Ash when Blanca is present is very restrained. And Dino did explain that that occurrence was not the first time an event such as that had happened so Blanca could have assumed Golzine's attitude had gotten jaded with each instance. Oh, I agree with that. It's the same reason why people blame the naivety of characters like Eiji when in reality, the ones that are to blame are those who take advantage of said naivety. But there is some truth in the fact that naivety and selfishness are qualities that you have control over; you have no control over what others do. Of course, blaming the victim is never right, but for someone like Blanca, who lives life safely, I can see why he believes Ash's "selfishness" is a bad quality. I don't think there is room. The narrative goes out of it's way to establish him as a cunning strategist that is good at reading people. Think back to when they first met and the state Ash was in. Clothing torn, pants at his knee and ankle, covered in bruises and very angry which may or may not have been directed at Golzine. Dino's reaction to finding Ash that way though? Just disgust that Ash wasn't more presentable to his guest and beat Ash right in front of Blanca. Also, based on the things Ash tells Blanca later, it would not be hard for him to connect the dots that it's not just Golzine's goons that are sexually abusing him. For Blanca not to notice would undermine everything the narrative is telling us about his intellect and skill which he trained Ash in for 2 years. It's not within his established character and just plain not believable he does not suspect something regardless of pretenses Golzine would put up around him. Blanca just doesn't care that much about Ash and doesn't care at all about what matters to Ash. So he's just as bad. If I handed some kid over to a known sex predator and the authorities found out about it, do you think I would escape prosecution? Let's not understate Blanca's role here which he's aware of himself. If I was a skilled professional killer and cared about Ash, I'd murder everyone at Golzine's and disappear. My payday be damned. That's just me however. Blanca is a villain and no better than the scum that employ him.Yeah, I have a feeling that scene will be cut, or trimmed if it is included. There's just quite frankly not enough episodes left for the current amount of content that needs to be adapted. Yes, because Ash and Eiji have literally done nothing to him for the effort he put forth to ruin their lives (Ash has made a couple threats but never pursued those threats). Of course, the outcome is entirely Yut-Lung's fault IMO. So he managed to be worse than Golzine to me. Details on why can wait until later.Haha, do you hate Yut-Lung more than Golzine? Abbie_Blizzard said: I hope you've been reading this so I can get an idea on your perspective on Blanca. I think he's completely hate worthy as I've been explaining to Lunallae even if I don't hate him. He's just "meh" to me.Alright, can someone please explain to me WHY we hate Blanca??? |
MetaKiteNov 20, 2018 11:43 AM
Agreed; however, wouldn't that mean Blanca's viewpoint is not necessarily faulty from a logical perspective? He has a point. Of course, Blanca is an antagonist and there's no denying he was morally in the wrong for these actions. I'm just saying there is a difference between him and the actual abusers. But maybe I'm just discussing semantics at this point to which we'd probably just have to admit we disagree. That's fair. I won't harp on the matter because I do think without irrefutable evidence, it's just a matter of a person's perspective in interpreting the material so there's no right or wrong way to look at it. In any case, I prefer that Blanca actually does know because it makes him a more interesting character in my opinion. His active awareness of Ash's abuse and yet the fact he still takes the stance he does makes him more complex than if he were just completely ignorant. I can see your point of view. In general, I think all of the antagonists in Banana Fish are very hate-able for the casual audience. And that's mainly because sexual assault and all actions related to it are extremely repulsive for the average person and it's also a subject matter that fiction has not yet desensitized (which is definitely for the better). For me, I only care if a character is well-written and they have an interesting role or purpose in narrative. So screw morals, twisted motivations, and all that, I only care if the writing is done well and in the case of Blanca and Yut-Lung, they're both pretty great characters (meanwhile Golzine teeters on the edge). For me to hate a character, the character would need to be badly written and contrived. |
Lunallae said: I agree they are well written characters. I wouldn't hate Yeet otherwise. He has lots of layers but he's still scum to tell Eiji it's fine to sleep with Golzine to survive but then actively seek to destroy him for making Ash happy. He's not your typical villain and that's the only quality about him I like. Agreed; however, wouldn't that mean Blanca's viewpoint is not necessarily faulty from a logical perspective? He has a point. Of course, Blanca is an antagonist and there's no denying he was morally in the wrong for these actions. I'm just saying there is a difference between him and the actual abusers. But maybe I'm just discussing semantics at this point to which we'd probably just have to admit we disagree. That's fair. I won't harp on the matter because I do think without irrefutable evidence, it's just a matter of a person's perspective in interpreting the material so there's no right or wrong way to look at it. In any case, I prefer that Blanca actually does know because it makes him a more interesting character in my opinion. His active awareness of Ash's abuse and yet the fact he still takes the stance he does makes him more complex than if he were just completely ignorant. I can see your point of view. In general, I think all of the antagonists in Banana Fish are very hate-able for the casual audience. And that's mainly because sexual assault and all actions related to it are extremely repulsive for the average person and it's also a subject matter that fiction has not yet desensitized (which is definitely for the better). For me, I only care if a character is well-written and they have an interesting role or purpose in narrative. So screw morals, twisted motivations, and all that, I only care if the writing is done well and in the case of Blanca and Yut-Lung, they're both pretty great characters (meanwhile Golzine teeters on the edge). For me to hate a character, the character would need to be badly written and contrived. I guess in Blanca's case I feel "meh" because I do recognize the good in him so it cancels out some of the actions I hate about him so he's fallen in an almost neutral category for me. I still think he's as bad as the others but I do understand your perspective and why you don't see him as badly. For me his actions were enough rather than his intent. |
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