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| Best episode in weeks. It's been a series of ups, downs and drastic quality changes ever since the whole prison break arc, but this episode made me realise why I originally liked Virgin Soul in the first place. I always say that death in media is the hardest thing to portray well- both for the character dying and for those affected by their death. The whole "let me have a ten minute death monologue and also fit in a 5 minute farewell speech" is just way too common and over-used; it seems like it's trying too hard squeeze emotion out of me. So whilst the actual way Mugaro died seems real bizarre to me (an angel got stabbed in the gut and died...like, what?), the way the death was executed was great. Even little things like the fact that there was no dialogue at all made the whole scene way more emotional. Nina's delayed grief and Jeanne's need for vengeance were well-portrayed too. I like how all these characters react differently- they should because they're different characters with individual personalities...but not too many anime pay that much mind when writing death and grief imo. Also, Lucifer FINALLY made an appearance!! I thought he was just in that OP for decoration lmao Glad Nina is gonna fight against Charioce properly now lol wonder how long that'll last and it looks like this final stretch is gonna be awesome! Also can someone please kill Alessand? I don't hate characters often, but I really can't stand him. He's not sympathetic in any way. All he is is a neurotic, selfish mess. Maybe Jeanne and/or Azazel will finish him. Actually I take that back- he deserves a death as pathetic as he is, so maybe he can just fall down a ditch and die. |
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| I was bawling after watching that episode. It was so damned depressing and sad, that just seeing everyone cry and get frustrated over El dying just broke my heart. Beautiful piece of work of an episode right there. I will never forget it. |
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| This season is really picking up. I was getting a little annoyed with Nina in the first half. I couldn't help but love and hate her. Now I mostly am back to loving her but I still kind of hope her and the king don't end up together. I'm glad the finale is starting. Hoping for a peaceful outcome between all beings. |
GreenEmu said: The writing for this show is so shit. Why is Kaisar such a naive idiot? He was thickheaded in Genesis, but how has he managed to get even more naive in the span of 10 years? I liked him a lot in Genesis too, but seeing him act like this is pissing me off. It's even more jarring since in the second short that was released before Virgin Soul aired, him and Jeanne seemed pretty close with him even promising to be there for her if she ever needed help. Where did that promise go? Not only do they barely interact, but her son was just murdered by somebody that he invited into their group, and the only thing that's bothering him is that he couldn't understand what Alessand was thinking. Three more episodes to go. I'm only watching this shit for Favaro at this point. Kaisar was always like that. He's the annoying hero character. The one that doesn't realize you possibly be that heroic without being a total fuckin' hypocrite. favaro? i like him more here than genesis. genesis was too short for me to give a damn about anyone. nina annoys the hell out of me but i still like her and virgin soul more overall. better than genesis. though both seasons are good. i just think nina is cooler. kaisar was alwaus annoying and favaro always seemed like he was flying by seat of his pants. |
| Wow, the beginning of this episode was so heavy! They used such a beautiful sountrack full of creepy choirs, I got chills all over my body... I was a bit surprised to see they didn't cover El up or bury him, or anything like that.... Any chance he gets resurrected within next 3 days lol? And nooo, some big battle is upcoming, my dream team is in pieces, all because of that dumb fuck Alessand! Shit, it is getting intense.  Poor Azazel lol. Not-enough-Charioce/10 Waiting week for each ep is killing me! |
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| aless a crum ass character for killing mugaro,+really hope nina doesnt hold back on charioce keep the thought of mugaro in your head,and oh my goddess finallyy st jeanne is about to take action and fuck these bums up myl lady i want your power level over 9000 my mind body and soul are ready |
| Man , the soundtrack played during Mugaro's death and Nina's cry , them feels, right in the kokoro . |
| I still can't believe they did it. Mugaro looked like a main figure to me, I thought maybe the most essential element for defeating Charioce ... but no. Wrong. Killed, without Glory, stabbed by a stupid and too ambitious coward and dying in front of everybody, his mother, his substitute father, his friends. His death was as shit as life can be sometimes. I would say it was really well done but ... I did not expect neither really want to see that. |
| With the death of Mugaro the Saint's child another war will begin. This time the Gods and Demons will end up working together to fight against the Humans. The final battle or so it seems will begin. However, we all know this King Charioce has already charged up his WMD to at least 80% a couple episodes back... Another tragedy will occur. Hopefully they'll learn to not to commit so many forces in their attack and attack in smaller waves. Also, they will be nearly defenceless this time... With Mugaro gone they have no way to counter the green magic. I'm also curious wonder how that green magic will affect Jeanne d'Arc. |
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Daniel_Naumov said: dasprn said: Alessand = Kujan 2.0 Oi stop disrespecting Kaisar and Kujan. OK, Iok Kujan got what was coming for him, but Kaisar is still the main character and he is doing the best he can to neither let nor start a Worlds war. OI OI MATTEROU Imma talk about Alessand not Kaisar!! |
When someone asks me why I like anime, I'd say Just Because. |
| I can't express how much more enjoyable this show is when it focuses on the bigger picture or larger overarching story rather than asinine subplot. What a great episode. Sad that El died, but I suspect that he's probably still alive. Considering that when angels die in this series, they disappear if I remember correctly (i.e, Michael from the first series, and all the angels that died earlier in this one). It's great to see Lucifer again, since he hasn't been featured at all in quite a few episodes, and the little altercation between him and Azazel was pretty funny (probably unintentionally). I was expecting more of a conflict when Sofiel and Jeanne went back to see Gabriel, but I guess that all the strange behavior from Gabriel in previous episode was just that. Strange behavior that isn't leading up to any specific event or drama, but there is still time for that subplot to lead to something, so we'll see. Fucboi Alessand being to chicken shit to commit to being an Onyx Knight is funny to see. Now he's a guilt ridden mess who essentially killed a kid for status, but then refused the very status that he killed El for in the first place. This sad excuse for a human being better hide somewhere, since he kinda just pissed off a lot of people. All in all, great episode. I'm just really glad I can get 100% invested in this, and completely enjoy this series again. |
| Matsuoka Yoshitsugu has hardly any range as a voice actor, and is grossly over-cast. Yeah. I said it. |
| I was not expecting Mugaro to die! Jeanne went back to heaven and got her powers back, Azazel asked Lucifer for help, things are going to be crazy next episode. |
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| no no no noooo!!!! they cant kill mugaro!!!! nooooo!!!!!! T-T |
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| I kinda knew Mugaro was going to die...but not in this pitifull way! From the hands of an useless and irrelevant character D: Kaisar's such a naive man, still believing about them Final battle is Humans vs Angels and Demons! approaching! Hope there won't be any more deathes, only redemption lol |
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Mouloxas said: And that is exactly what makes it so great! Because Charioce is a cold realist whereas Kaisar wants to create a dream world where gods, demons and humans live together and help each other in peace and harmony. His ideology only looks good (in fact, it looks infinitely better) when Charioce is there and works as the antithesis to everything Kaisar stands for. That also works really well for Charioce and is one reason that would justify writing a character like him, but that is irrelevant right now. We were talking about Kaisar. What Kaisar wants could never possibly happen, it's just a childish pipe dream of a young man who doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand how the world works, he remains faithful to his perfect ideal and his honor that he wants to uphold as a knight. We, the viewers, know that can never happen and that he has indeed failed and created trouble many times. I won't dispute your points because they are facts. My answer is directed towards the opening and closing sentences of what you wrote. I'll just say he takes contradictory actions because he has his honor, having sworn loyalty to the king, and his unreachable ideals. And he always had this internal conflict going on until he went against Charioce. That's what made his character so beautiful and interesting. At some point in the episode, something among the lines "Kaisar doesn't understand the hearts of men" was said. I instantly thought about Saber from Fate. Ok, very weird comparison and not fully accurate, but some parallels are there. Kaisar, just like Saber, is too perfect in a way [he doesn't understand what his soldiers want and is always acting with (what he thinks) the country's best interests in mind] and he will stubbornly continue on the same path, hellbent on making everything right in his own, ideal way. But hey, truthfully, the majority of what i just said is actually a condensed version of how i imagine it in my own head in a perfect Virgin Soul, a Virgin Soul whose storyline branches off from the current one in episode 8 and keeps only the flashbacks after that. With how things are in reality though, what you're saying is definitely correct compared to my fantasies. Ahem, i got a bit sidetracked. My point is, there are still traces in this show of what Kaisar's character could have been, but just like the majority of this season, terrible writing decisions are ruining everything. Well... I gotta agree that Kaisar could work, at least he has (had) a place in this story (unlike, say, Favaro at this point, whom I like a lot, but he doesn't do shit for the main conflict). Partially he irritates me so much by design. But the way he is written currently leaves a lot to be desired as well. I think that the two main problems I have with his part of the script is that the major turning points should've been better articulated, and I'd also shift his interactions more to the capital (Charioce and knights) side - because that's where he has belonged for a while, that side lacks in important characters and, as you've mentioned, Kaisar and Charioce directly arguing about their views is good for everything in this show. I also must agree that the main line of Kaisar's development is interesting and realistic: he longed to be a knight > got the honor > learned that it comes with the price of not always being able to follow one's heart. But I think that more time should've been spent on Kaisar letting go of his position. If Kaisar is honorable, and he is supposed to be, breaking a law, a vow, a trust (he was guarding the king's back), a connection (with his knights), letting go of his dream and of a respectable position should be an issue for him. That's probably the point when a samurai would commit seppuku. And I would love to see Kaisar to try and stick a bit with his promises and to stand against his friends to protect the king before he understands that he can't. But Kaisar also has been "corrupted" by Favaro's free rogue spirit, he lived the life of a bounty hunter, so he can see past the rigid boundaries of official duty, it's to be expected that he sees another way. He can be a hero while not holding he title of a knight. There can be discussion about what is a knight, but I think there's more value in Kaisar understanding that his father's heritage doesn't equal righteousness than in inventing another way to look at knighthood. And actually Kaisar does have a few moments of trying not to betray his king too much – he guards against him during the fight with Azazel, but doesn’t use the opportunity when Charioce is disarmed, and he doesn’t attack the king from his newly blind side during the ep. 13. But it was baffling to hear him say to Favaro that he didn’t know why he was being punished when they met in prison. After all Kaisar did exactly the thing he had been entrusted to guard against, he should've known that! Also it’s such a waste that they didn’t Kaisar to talk to Charioce even once after his fall from grace – why didn’t Charioce go to see Kaisar during one of his visits to the dungeon (instead we saw that super boring convo with Dias)? why didn’t anything interesting happen between them during the coliseum fight? It’d be fun to see the king entering the ring himself, for example. Eh, of course, I have my own AU too, it’s impossible with the current state of VS not to, so I totally get your wish to go into alternative visions. -_-" Kaisar and Charioce have an interesting relationship after all – Kaisar would probably try to make the otherwise competent king see the light, as a kind person that he is, and Charioce seems to like Kaisar. In my interpretation he must be attracted to what he doesn’t have – his idealism and his natural goodness, just like he admires the free spirit of Nina. But the other two lines of Kaisar’s development seem to be more questionable. I just don’t see him working that easily with Azazel, the person who caused him and many others unthinkable suffering. And Azazel hasn’t expressed any remorse over hurting humans and probably won’t ever. Similarly, Kaisar isn’t shaken by El being the cause of the death of his former colleagues and friends. That’s not how people work and especially not how a lawful good like Kaisar would work. Why does he lecture the king but is chill here? Imo, too many characters are made to stay together and it hurts the show, since they don’t interact as they should. And lastly, the thing with Kaisar and his knights is maybe not suited to action anime, because it’s material for a serious big drama. But at least he should think about them when the story calls. At first it was better – he was concerned about his performance and about causing trouble for them, but still he didn’t distance from them during his betrayal, he didn’t react to them being slaughtered later, continued to get them involved (Alessand), and, most importantly, he hasn’t even properly talked about them with Jeanne. This makes Kaisar look like an asshole who is ready to discard people the moment his ideas call him somewhere else. Supporting Jeanne’s rebellion is the most logical way out for Kaisar, but the way it is now it also makes me sad, because, again, it ends up being a moral cop-out for him, when he can say to himself that his allegiance wasn’t to the king at all, but to Jeanne and all that’s good, so his betrayal doesn’t matter. It will be even worse if he continues to see himself as a knight and ends being accepted back. For me it’s especially painful, because it’s under Jeanne. I like her, but she is a betrayer to humans and her words about a man killing a man aren’t true at all in her case. Kaisar will latch onto a leader again instead of taking full responsibility. |
deadoptimistSep 9, 2017 1:23 PM
| Let people die, BUT WHY MUGARO, JUST WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK OFF MAPPA |
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MarianSony11 said: Zelev said: I fucking called it that Jeanne would play a bigger role into this. Ya'll said she was useless. How about now? The sad part is I didn't realize it sooner considering it's in the title, "Virgin Soul." plot armor...let another goddess give her powers because why not...the writer wants it... She had powers before. And the "Gods" don't have enough of their soldiers, so I guess that's why it was fitting to give her powers in that moment. I'm not defending the plot armor, though. |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
| I expect Azazel to be the one to find Alessand and not Jeanne. Jeanne would execute him on the spot or something but there's no1 better to give him what he deserves than Azazel ~ would be pretty fitting. |
Mouloxas said: Kaisar in the first half of the season compared to the second half of the season makes it look like he's been written by different people, though admittedly, that is partially down to a lack of focus on his character. Frankly, it feels like all of the second half is written by a B-team. The show had good things going for it until ep.13, after that it descended into really bad female-oriented fanservice. Ok, it was female-oriented from the start, but initially it was a fun mixture of action with lots of ikemen and some impressive tits for the male audience (Psycho Pass was like that too, and it was great), and after ep. 13 it's suddenly just lukewarm fluff. I wanted to say that the second half was aimed at selling merch and causing doki-doki, but it has so few good moments even on the romantic front it's more like a pure waste of time and effort. Mouloxas said: Correct me if i'm wrong, but i can't recall any good scenes with only the two of them this season that would contribute to the development of their characters. I think that the scenes in the prison when Favaro tells Kaisar that he should pay attention to his surroundings and then when he teaches him how to use the magical arm are good. It’s also interesting that Rita didn’t tell Kaisar about the spell, but instead told Favaro. Rita vs Jeanne subplot was also potentially fun, too bad that it’s been dropped. But other than that – not so much. Imo, prison episodes also had the strongest moment of Nina’s lovestory. I had hopes after the moment when in her mind’s eye the bubbly distracted Chris turned into the sad Charioce, looking straight at her. I expected her to learn that love isn’t about dancing and fairytales, your partner is another person with his own problems – that’s a lesson she had to learn anyway. And yet she’s still in the dancing mindset somehow. There were hints on Charioce’s mom backstory – that’s also been dropped. And interactions inside the good team truly are bad. Many have mentioned that even Jeanne and El don’t have any good moments when reunited. And think about Jeanne working with Azazel – El being fond of him shouldn’t really make it easy for her to be partners with a demon of his background, she has her own problems with demons. Similarly, it’s not too clear how century-old enemies like Azazel and Sofiel can be in one room without conflict. Even if dangerous currently for them Charioce is just a human with a limited lifespan, creatures like them just can't not plan for further. Mouloxas said: Before Mugaro was killed, she had no intention of taking radical action, she was merely content with reuniting with her son. <...> Btw, it really shows that Charioce should’ve killed Jeanne, as logic dictates. It doesn’t make much sense for him to condemn his black knights for terrible deaths, to kill previous kings and non-humans in swathes, but keeping Jeanne alive for so long. She is popular, the gods want her, but the moment they lay eyes on her they're going to make her into a walking ad again. The way Charioce is written is a mess too after all. As I’ve whined already, I’d prefer if he had been a full-scwing Machiavellian ruler, an enthusiastic warrior and warmonger, even if it had made him less of an introverted fluffball. It'd made more sense in the setting and in the narrative. Perhaps this sense of lack of fulfillment is the biggest grievance with VS. In regard to Kaisar too – ok, it is logical for him to end up in Jeanne’s rebellion, if she is alive, but he should’ve gone through his development by that moment. As of now it looks like he just passed time until Jeanne came back to lead him. But we could have had a truly tragic Kaisar, standing in a burning battlefield, clinging to his dream amidst blood and hate for the sake of the simple fact of the existence of that dream, even if it couldn’t be realized. Plus actually Jeanne also isn’t the herald of his dream world, she is a tool for the gods (in the last ep Gabriel stands behind her like a puppeteer), not a uniting light. And there's nothing on what gods and demons plan to do with each other after they defeat Charioce, but it'd be strage if they wanted friendship and cookies like Kaisar, since they're old enemies, the gods didn't help demons during the human-demon war, demons are not big fans of friendship and cookies, and both parties are weakened, so they any of them could try to get the upper hand. |
deadoptimistSep 9, 2017 5:56 PM
| Lucifer finally stopped to be such a pussy! That Alessandre bitch needs to suffer, ALOT. What a piece of shit! With everything said, the episode was emotionally strong, and definitly managed to get me worked about. |
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| Well, while this was the best episode in weeks, that speaks more to how poor the writing has been recently rather than how good it was in this episode. In reality, this episode was still a mess, with Nina only starting to cry because of a skirt and not because of Mugaro's corpse (seriously, she flashed back to seeing her dad's corpse, so it would have been far easier for Mugaro's body to cause that reaction rather than the skirt he wore a few times). Also, while I'm happy that Nina has finally turned around on the Charioce issue to wanting to stop him (as should have happened a long, long time ago), this suffers for the fact that it seems really rushed because of how much they've focused on Nina's "undying love" for Charioce up until last week when she threw a hissy fit because he rejected her. Definitely an improvement, but nowhere near enough to redeem this second season at this point. |
Mouloxas said: I'm not that concerned about it because i understand that it's beneficial for them to form an alliance for now. That said, it wouldn't be too difficult to actually show them talk things over to clear up any confusion for the viewers, because it is weird to see them get along just fine immediately, it kinda undermines their characters. The problem is that way too many such issues have been omitted, so it looks like sueish "good guys get together just because they're on the right side", even though they shouldn't really and not all of them are really good guys. The group has become a sort of a narrative swamp, where no one besides maybe Azazel progresses, and he does so because the very staying with a group peacefully is progress for him. Mouloxas said: They were probably going for a scenario like this: If Charioce kills the Saint, people will rise against him. Doesn't make much sense when he's the one that exiled her and nobody knew that she was in jail anyways, so he could kill her whenever he wanted. Maybe he was keeping her alive because he wanted to see her lose her trust in the gods, something we saw in the early episodes, but i doubt the writers remember that subplot at this point. Actually now that I think about it, they could need her to bargain with or about El, and that's a legit reason. Charioce maybe also fond of her, like he is of Kaisar, or respect her, but if that made him to keep the weapon of the gods alive, it was a bad decision. Torturing her enough to make her break away from gods doesn't seem Charioce's style, the way he is portrayed, and she doesn't seem to have been put through physical torture (at least as far as it goes to scars, though they won't necessary appear). I mean Charioce really doesn't seem to be a big fan of torture, there have been a lot of moments where it would even be expected in his cultural period, but we don't see it actually happen. Azazel was the only exception, but he was a major pain for the king and the kingdom. What doesn't make much sense is keeping Jeanne together with other prisoners on common grounds, even if nobody escapes etc. - guards could be fans, she is way too influential to not be hidden better, in solitary. But public opinion was not an issue when they have already stopped looking for her. Btw, the revolt we currently see is criminally underwritten. It's true that people can be quick to turn on their former leaders, but at least basics should've been specicfied. Is this on the side of the religious, now emboldened by the gods involvement? Is it because of fear? But the gods were pushed back by Charioce's Dromos and attacks on the capital had been routine for ages before demons were crushed, and there was evacuation at the very least. Why are they tearing their country's banners?.. Where's police? Most importantly - what do they actually want? |
yaya_90 said: Charioce is gonna save the world from Bahamut. Calling it right now. While demons and gods failed to save lives last time and only sealed Bahamut who will surely return. Only Charioce foresaw his return, he took it upon himself and the onyx task force to take him down for good because no one else will. Demons and gods are too weak now to even face Bahamut and they are preparing their forces for a rebellion. None of them brought up Bahamut not once, they will be shocked when he appears again. Guess who is the only one prepared to face him? Charioce. He built Dromos for one purpose only and that is Bahamut. He didn't build it to wipe out demons and gods, the first time he used Dromos was because Gabriel declared war on him "that he tried to prevent if Jeanne pledged her allegiance to him". Charioce doesn't want the old cycle to repeat itself over and people losing more lives because of Bahamut. is this your assumption? |
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Mouloxas said: The funniest thing is that in the scene with Jeanne after the ending, it showed demons rushing to join the rebellion. Like WTF? What kind of self respecting demon (even under the current circumstances) would join the holy saint Jeanne without a second thought? I mean, i know they were probably going to join Lucifer, but the way the anime portrayed it gave off a completely wrong image. Yep. Jeanne spent all her life fighting demons, in her flashback she was still fighting demons, were hurt, witnessed a child die, which scarred her, caused her to lose her faith in herself and her subordinated to disrespect her. Gabriel, who stands behind her, did nothing to help the enslaved demons. They probably would join the rebellion, but that's sure not something as easy as running at her call. Basically they try to oversimplify this into everyone pureheartedly ganging up on Charioce together for the greater good, but it doesn't hold water too well. And demons remain a mystery at large. We don't know if they're malicious by nature, whether peaceful cohabitation with humans is even possible for them (gods need prayers, maybe demons "eat" human suffering? and I would be surprised if demons didn't enslave humans). If you look at it carefully, the show is racist towards demons, lmao. Azazel and Lucifer are fallen gods, dragons stand apart in a way, there're no major demon actors (Dante and Belphegor die quickly, Cerby is not involved into main conflict so far). I hoped that Orlean knights would work with the collaborator demon division to show us more of demons and their opinions on the situation, but sadly the demons were killed right away. There're also unclear technicalities as in whether humans maintain control over Cocytus, raid it or just raised dramatically and left to slowly rebuild. |
| absolutely stellar episode, probably the best in the second cour so far even tho i also loved nina and charoices last date. i know many people will hate this episode and rate it low because mugaro died (which is idiotic). the directing, music and overall atmosphere of this episode was so fucking good. |
| Objectivity doesn't exist. Subjectivity is an excuse. Beautiful world of online discourse. |
ThatCynicalOtaku said: -Everyone mopes that Mugarou died -Everyone prepares to go to war That's all that happened in this episode. You'd think that by episode 21 of an anime about angels, gods, and humans fighting, there'd be much more tension. Agency. Conflict. But despite all the main characters gathering to stop the King, they've barely done anything. I originally thought I'd give Virgin Soul a 9 by the time it finished, but it's definitely going to be a 7. this is the dumbest comment i've read in a while. i guess plot developement is important for many people but this episode was so much more powerful and well executed than any other episode in virgin souls so far, especially the ones with a lot of plot developement. its not all about story story story ya know, you might appreciate an episode like this more when u've seen more media, idk some never see the light and always pant after the next big plot point, i seriously don't get it. also lol at you already giving this a final score instead of waiting for the end first. |
| Objectivity doesn't exist. Subjectivity is an excuse. Beautiful world of online discourse. |
Mouloxas said: THANK YOU! When i call Charioce a racist and an advocate to slavery, people ask me what the hell am i talking about. That said, i'm not gonna sit here and pretend that the demons are the good guys. BUT, in season 1, the demons (a faction of them to be precise) had a reason for attacking the capital, they wanted the god key to awake Bahamut and try to control him in order to become the dominant race. Many other demons though, joined the humans and the gods to try and stop Bahamut when everything went to shit. The leader of the demons and the leader of the gods even sacrificed themselves to seal Bahamut at the very start of the story. Now, i'm certain Charioce has his reasons as well. That doesn't make what he's doing and what the demons were doing acceptable. So i ask? How is what the demons were doing then different to what Charioce is doing now? IT'S NOT. And yet people don't care because they immediately assume demons are evil. See the racism? Same actions from both the demons and the king, completely different reception from the viewers. Haha, I think you're too fast in thanking me, since we have opposing views on Charioce. I meant the attitude of the writers, since they pay so little attention to demons. We've seen heaven, but almost nothing of the life in hell. But even if I look at it from the opposite side I do agree that what Charioce's is doing is the same part of the war for dominance between the species, so I too ask why people say that he is a maniac or a psycho, if he is totally in-line with what's been happening in their world all the time until now, with the additional motivation of fighting for the undeerdog faction, recently wronged and hurt badly. This wish for revenge may be nor moral, but it's easily understandable. Also demons used to attack people for many reasons all the time, not only during the key hunt and even after it, as we saw in Jeanne's flashbak, despite the supposed unity of all factions during the Bahamut episode. And actually I don't think that everyone working together when Bahamut started to rage proves anything - that was for self-preservation, the only thing it shows is that the will to live is stronger than pride and ambition in most creatures. Not much else, definitely not that they won't fight the moment the existential danger passes. I wouldn't define Charioce that way too. (Also I thought that him being all this is currently the more frequent opinion.) His policy is hostile and exploitative towards non-humans, he uses slavery, but it doesn't seem that he himself is racist or advocates enslavement (as in promote, expand and advertise, he has introdiced it though, yeah). I mean - he doesn't abandon Nina because she is half-human, he incorporates demons in his army, coliseum is used for both human and demon fights, he doesn't show any disgust towards a zombie hand or a talking gooze and that scene with demon kids was poorly done, but it existed in his characterization. He doesn't slaughter demon hostages when he waits for Azazel and he doesn't torture or even use demon slaves himself. It's pretty obvious that he views them as personalities, it's just that they were a security concern and enslaving them helps his people, also probably gains him support of the nobles. Does he flaunt slavery? No, he doesn't talk about it, doesn't try to make it into something honorable. I also think that demons being a different species makes the situation somewhat different from our racism. As for whether demons are evil - that's what I would like to know! Because it's the most important point that has not been mentioned, goddamn this writing! Gods want prayers, so what do demons want? Is their malice cultural or onthological? The only thing that we know is that they have been acting evil towards humans for a while now. |
deadoptimistSep 10, 2017 2:37 PM
yaya_90 said: There are clues in the show that he is most likely planning to take down Bahamut. Why is he in Eibos then? Wasn't Bahamut sealed there? Context. There are clues, he never outright states such a thing. If we go by your interpretation, then both the the demons and the gods have talked about Bahamut as well. I don't disagree with you that Charioce will do something with Bahamut. It's the only logical conclusion after all. Problem is, there has been next to ZERO buildup about it. yaya_90 said: Isn't Eibos's seal about to break and a dimensional rift will open? Did they really say such a thing? I honestly can't remember. yaya_90 said: He had to keep demons and gods at bay so they don't ruin his plans. Gods didn't give him the stone slabs to build Dromos so he had to take them by force and demons have been causing unrest so he had to weaken them and enslave them. That doesn't make any sense at all. If there is a chance to defeat Bahamut, why would the gods and the demons not help? What possible reason could they have for rejecting to help? Defeating Bahamut will be beneficial to every race. Why would the gods not build that weapon themselves? Surely they are more capable than humans? Every race suffered because of Bahamut. Surely they would jump at the chance to get rid of Bahamut? I could ask countless questions, but you get the point. yaya_90 said: To him this is collateral damage for the sake of his goal. Collateral damage. That is some gigantic collateral damage. And Charioce hasn't been built up as someone that tries to save the world no matter what the cost may be. Absolutely not at all. It has never been stated or hinted, even subtly, that he is such a person. It has never been stated that he has an eye on the future. That he looks to save not individuals, but the community.[/quote]   They just finished recording soundtrack for the last episode. Look at the screen. That's Bahamut right there. This was posted by the music composer on twitter. Go back to episode 15 and watch his scene at Eibos with the onyx knight, he said he will have to use dromos again even if he is going to perish, for him its better than the end of the world. It depends on how you understand his character, this scene confirmed to me that he is trying to save the world from greater danger. The spoiler picture right here is of Bahamut, meaning he wants to take down Bahamut. Demons and gods can't cooperate, last season both sides fought to capture Amira, its not like they cooperated to capture the key to unseal Bahamut. Charioce wanted his plan to go his way, they look down at mankind they won't let him have it his way. And the gods already had the stone slabs they don't know anything about it or even tried to build it. |
yaya-bxSep 10, 2017 4:17 PM
yaya_90 said: They just finished recording soundtrack for the last episode. Look at the screen. That's Bahamut right there. This was posted by the music composer on twitter. Confirmation of what we already knew pretty much. This is going to be one messy clusterfuck. |
| I just forgot El is technically jesus. he will comeback. |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
| Alessand has realized that what he did was all for nothing. I hope he hangs himself! |
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