Overlord (light novel)
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| I have to admire the writer's boldness in writing something this dark and controversial, not to many series focus on the dynamics of how morality is such a complicated and difficult subject to grasp, as what one decision might be beneficial and good for one party would look as a unethical and evil from another. if u look at teh big picture each action be it a bad or good depending on oyur point of view has at least some cause of justification if take it on a broader perspective. Still i can't help but feel such a measure of depression after reading this volume, the level of darkness in this one far exceeded than of the other ones have. so i have to say from a personal perspective is definitely my least favorite volume, but from a critical perspective it is definitely one of the best written volumes within the series ever. |
| Weeeeeell, that was a dark and descriptive ride. Oddly satisfying when Eruya died from Hamsuke, and was sorta funny seeing how surprised Fluder was when Nabe removed her ring, and then seeing him moved to tears once Ainz removed his ring, hahaha. ^^ Took a small feel trip reading the epilogue, though, I really was rooting for at least Arche to live, or it would have been nice if all the Foresight members lived and just ended up becoming servants of Nazarick. |
| Momonga is too lonely :'( The adventures were all slaughtered :'( Ainz wearing shorts and boots with a neck collar XD He couldn't' beat them either :O teamwork and boosts sure let you fight way above your class. poor arche :( poor sisters :( maybe she'll be revived if fruder finds out and asks. |
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| I really liked this volume. The highlight moment for me was when Ainz got shirtless and Shalltear was overly excited about it, lol. I'm surprised Albedo didn't react to it though. You'd think she'd take pictures or something. |
| Oh wow that ending T.T |
GillItMr_No said: I really liked this volume. The highlight moment for me was when Ainz got shirtless and Shalltear was overly excited about it, lol. I'm surprised Albedo didn't react to it though. You'd think she'd take pictures or something. She was closer to the action so she had a better angle. I am really getting sick and tired of the bleeding heart idealists complaining about how dark this volume was =_= |
| Author-sama gettin' more pervert, but story goes more dark. |
| ~♥~ Otaku + Otaku - Otaku = Otaku ~♥~ |
Takuan_Soho said: Darklight0303 said: I am really getting sick and tired of the bleeding heart idealists complaining about how dark this volume was =_= I am not sure if that is what they are complaining about, I also really didn't like this volume. Not because it went "dark", but because it went stupid. I wouldn't have such an issue had the evil been more, well grand, instead of pretty pathetic. His revenge on weak opponents (who weren't even adventurers because they were desperate to earn a buck - something that the MC did just 2 volumes ago) doesn't really have any grip to it. I wouldn't even call it evil as much as sad; it's the equivalent of being a wanton boy pulling wings off of flies. It's third tier evil, which I will say is in keeping with his salaryman origins, but the problem with that is that it doesn't suggest that we will get true evil, but rather that this will turn this into a boring morality play. I want glorious evil, the fascinating thing about "overlords" in history is how audacious they were. Sure they may kill 40,000 people and stack their heads in pyramids as a warning, but they at least were willing to put themselves into their actions. We get a little bit of that later, but it isn't developed as well as it could have been. I want a satan like seducer, someone who can convince "good" people to do horrible things. To see him manipulate those "agents" into betraying their previous values would have been incredible, but to see an OP beat up on weaklings, not so much. If I want pathetic evil, I just need to read the newspaper. Fiction should aim higher. So basically you want Demiurge |
Takuan_Soho said: I wouldn't even call it evil as much as sad; it's the equivalent of being a wanton boy pulling wings off of flies. It's third tier evil, which I will say is in keeping with his salaryman origins, but the problem with that is that it doesn't suggest that we will get true evil, but rather that this will turn this into a boring morality play. Of course Ainz isn't evil evil, this volume perfectly illustrates how obsessed he is with nazarick and his sadness/loneliness. It might be an effect from turning into a lich too, what he treasured most from when he was human is his strongest ingraved feelings and the base of his psyche. |
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Takuan_Soho said: Darklight0303 said: So basically you want Demiurge No, Demiurge is too corporate, he reminds me of the other devils in Good Omens who don't get why tying up a major motorway is a great accomplishment in advancing evil. ichii_1 said: Of course Ainz isn't evil evil, this volume perfectly illustrates how obsessed he is with nazarick and his sadness/loneliness. It might be an effect from turning into a lich too, what he treasured most from when he was human is his strongest ingraved feelings and the base of his psyche. I disagree, Ainz was someone who deliberately selected a neutral evil alignment in his fantasy game. There are references where he mentioned being a PK. Being a lich is for Ainz an excuse, similar to his stated reason of merely "defending" Nazarick. This was made clear by the simple fact that he went out of his way to get those agents to come so that he could kill them. That is my issue, his "evil" is pathetic. The idea behind Overlord is that a weak person has the chance to act out his fantasies of evil. This is why he has no credible opposition. He can indulge in his power, something he could not do as a salaryman in Japan (which is why he brings this up so many times). The steady corruption that power gives him is the main idea of the series. I have no issue with that, I just wished that Ainz had more faith in being evil. That would be interesting, instead I predict this will end as a boring morality play. Wow your interpretation is A LOT different from most people's... Ainz doesn't not choose to roleplay and become evil; he uncontrollably becomes a lich and then thinks about everything for Nazarick. Also, His evilness is not entirely by choice but pushed by the circumstance; he lured these workers in all because there was a need to test the Nazarick's defence system, as Ainz thought Shalltear's brainwash hinted a high possibility of other enemies looming in the new world. Moreover, Ainz does not desire to act evil but merely survive; from Ainz's perspective, His servants' high expectation annoys him and he needs to meet all of them so that they won't betray him. He simply has only little control over the situation. There are SEVERAL ideas behind Overlord and the corruption as of now is not one of them. Do pay attention to Ainz's monologue and you will see why he is only forced, mostlt by Demiurge, to act evil. |
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Takuan_Soho said: I disagree, Ainz was someone who deliberately selected a neutral evil alignment in his fantasy game. There are references where he mentioned being a PK. Being a lich is for Ainz an excuse, similar to his stated reason of merely "defending" Nazarick. This was made clear by the simple fact that he went out of his way to get those agents to come so that he could kill them. That is my issue, his "evil" is pathetic. The idea behind Overlord is that a weak person has the chance to act out his fantasies of evil. This is why he has no credible opposition. He can indulge in his power, something he could not do as a salaryman in Japan (which is why he brings this up so many times). The steady corruption that power gives him is the main idea of the series. I have no issue with that, I just wished that Ainz had more faith in being evil. That would be interesting, instead I predict this will end as a boring morality play. It does come down to his lich self influencing him, I don't see how that can be denied. Him killing those adventurers was demiurge's idea, which he couldn't refuse because he needs to keep his overlord persona intact. The problem is his hypocrisy was out of control in this vol. He hated the adventurers for doing the same stuff he does :( His obsession for nazarick is the cause of that, which harkens back to his lich self influencing him. The way I see it going is that Ainz will completely assimilate in the evil overlord persona and will need to be saved to get his human side back by his friends. |
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| I really loved this volume. It shows how lonely Ainz feels but also shows how far he is willing to go for Nazarick. Ofcourse i hoped atleast Arche would have survived. I liked how Ainz went beserk the moment they lied about his old comrades. to be honest i think Albedo is becoming more and more suspicious. She has something planned, i'm thinking she wants to kill the supreme beings with that search team she is assembling. |
Nezperdian said: Vejay said: to be honest i think Albedo is becoming more and more suspicious. She has something planned, i'm thinking she wants to kill the supreme beings with that search team she is assembling. That's the only reason to have Rubedo in the team. Plus the scene when she said something like "How boring" in her room at the guild flag. I think the dialog in her room with the flag was just her saying " Fuck the name Ainz, i want Momonga". As when Ainz changed her settings it said she loved Momonga. i think she has a major grudge against the other supreme beings for " betraying" Ainz. I think She notices Ainz being lonely. I can't wait for Volume 9 to be translated. Edit: is there any news on how many volumes there will be? |
Vejay said: Nezperdian said: That's the only reason to have Rubedo in the team. Plus the scene when she said something like "How boring" in her room at the guild flag. I think the dialog in her room with the flag was just her saying " Fuck the name Ainz, i want Momonga". As when Ainz changed her settings it said she loved Momonga. i think she has a major grudge against the other supreme beings for " betraying" Ainz. I think She notices Ainz being lonely. She definitely noticed that at the end of volume three when everyone is scolding Shalltear and he's just sitting on the sidelines feeling too nostalgic about the scene. |
Vejay said: is there any news on how many volumes there will be? no :( But I think we should be near the halfway point, the major new world players will definitely be making their move after vol 9. |
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| I have a question over something that was discussed in the first chapter of volume 7. Ainz and Nabe were talking and Nabe casually mentioned that the head maid was under house arrest? But having just finished reading volume 6, I don't recall reading about the head maid rebelling against Ainz? What happened and why was she placed under house arrest? |
| I only just finished reading chapter 1 of this volume so I can't comment on the deaths of Foresight members. But based on my reading of previous chapters, I do agree with what some of you are saying about how stupid or pathetic Ainz's evil was. During my reading of previous chapters, the feeling I got was that Ainz sometimes acted evil simply for the sake of acting evil. Like in Volume 6 when he briefly considered killing Evileye as a matter of convenience. And there wasn't even any good reason to do so! He merely SUSPECTED that she might know something, that's all. Someone with his resources and power can choose to do things differently. Bribery? Memory wipe? Making up credible lies? Staging some event to divert attention? All easily done for a gamer stuck in some kind of game 24/7. But no. The first alternative that popped up was: kill. Previously, he also chose to kill some mithril adventurers when he didn't really have to. So what if they insisted on accompanying him to investigate the Shalltear situation? He could choose to maim them instead of killing. Like saying... "So you choose to accompany me? But are you even worthy? How about this... If all your party members combined can remain standing after facing me for 10 seconds, I will allow you to come." And then set up a duel and defeat them so soundly that they couldn't come interfere. He didn't have to set a trap to kill them. So it seemed to me, at times, he acted evil simply for the sake of acting evil. Like some kind of third rate mob leader. I think things became this way because absolute power corrupted him. If guild members like Touch Me and that teacher who created Yuri Alpha were still around, things wouldn't have gone to shit like this. Touch Me especially seemed to be the Voice of Conscience of that guild. |
TeckmeisterOct 21, 2015 12:19 PM
Teckmeister said: I only just finished reading chapter 1 of this volume so I can't comment on the deaths of Foresight members. But based on my reading of previous chapters, I do agree with what some of you are saying about how stupid or pathetic Ainz's evil was. During my reading of previous chapters, the feeling I got was that Ainz sometimes acted evil simply for the sake of acting evil. Like in Volume 6 when he briefly considered killing Evileye as a matter of convenience. And there wasn't even any good reason to do so! He merely SUSPECTED that she might know something, that's all. Someone with his resources and power can choose to do things differently. Bribery? Memory wipe? Making up credible lies? Staging some event to divert attention? All easily done for a gamer stuck in some kind of game 24/7. But no. The first alternative that popped up was: kill. Previously, he also chose to kill some mithril adventurers when he didn't really have to. So what if they insisted on accompanying him to investigate the Shalltear situation? He could choose to maim them instead of killing. Like saying... "So you choose to accompany me? But are you even worthy? How about this... If all your party members combined can remain standing after facing me for 10 seconds, I will allow you to come." And then set up a duel and defeat them so soundly that they couldn't come interfere. He didn't have to set a trap to kill them. So it seemed to me, at times, he acted evil simply for the sake of acting evil. Like some kind of third rate mob leader. I think things became this way because absolute power corrupted him. If guild members like Touch Me and that teacher who created Yuri Alpha were still around, things would have gone to shit like this. Touch Me especially seemed to be the Voice of Conscience of that guild. Magical means can always be undone you know. Killing someone and making sure they can't be revived is the safest option. =_= Bleeding heart idealists |
Teckmeister said: I think things became this way because absolute power corrupted him. If guild members like Touch Me and that teacher who created Yuri Alpha were still around, things would have gone to shit like this. Touch Me especially seemed to be the Voice of Conscience of that guild. I don't know about that. The races of Touch me and the others are different from Ainz. For all we know they would also be influenced towards "evil". We know Ainz has little to no emotions to being an undead. So we don't know how the other supreme beings would be influenced by their races |
Vejay said: I don't know about that. The races of Touch me and the others are different from Ainz. For all we know they would also be influenced towards "evil". We know Ainz has little to no emotions to being an undead. So we don't know how the other supreme beings would be influenced by their races hmm... Although Ainz isn't 100% emotionless. He does feel joy, anger and even embarrassment. But yeah, it was mentioned earlier that he felt no empathy towards humans. But on the other hand, Sebas's isn't human either. He's some kind of dragon thing but he still retains his sense of righteousness. So I don't know exactly how much influence one's game race exerts on one's personality. Plus, Ainz retains some "Suzuki Satoru" traits still. Those traits do affect his decision-making. What we have to know about Suzuki is that he's a loner without family and friends in the real world. Such people don't have that strong of an inclination to help others anyway. Why should that change just because they struck lottery (i.e. gaining super powers and money and so on)? I have another theory about alignment after reading through the character cards. Ainz's sense of justice is actually pretty low. Minus 500. While Sebas has Positive 300 or something. So I think the settings they were stuck with in the game play a significant role here. Sebas was created like that but I don't know about Ainz. If their game followed the same rules as most other games, then in-game action (such as killing good aligned players or monsters) would cause one's sense of justice to drop. Ainz Ooal Gown was a PK/PKK guild but based on what I read so far, Touch Me seemed to be more of a PKK then active PKer so the players he killed were most likely evil-aligned. And he enjoyed helping others. So most likely, his current in-game alignment, if he's also transported over to that world, is probably close to Sebas's. A good guy. Also, wasn't his job class a paladin? |
Teckmeister said: Vejay said: I don't know about that. The races of Touch me and the others are different from Ainz. For all we know they would also be influenced towards "evil". We know Ainz has little to no emotions to being an undead. So we don't know how the other supreme beings would be influenced by their races hmm... Although Ainz isn't 100% emotionless. He does feel joy, anger and even embarrassment. But yeah, it was mentioned earlier that he felt no empathy towards humans. But on the other hand, Sebas's isn't human either. He's some kind of dragon thing but he still retains his sense of righteousness. So I don't know exactly how much influence one's game race exerts on one's personality. Plus, Ainz retains some "Suzuki Satoru" traits still. Those traits do affect his decision-making. What we have to know about Suzuki is that he's a loner without family and friends in the real world. Such people don't have that strong of an inclination to help others anyway. Why should that change just because they struck lottery (i.e. gaining super powers and money and so on)? I have another theory about alignment after reading through the character cards. Ainz's sense of justice is actually pretty low. Minus 500. While Sebas has Positive 300 or something. So I think the settings they were stuck with in the game play a significant role here. Sebas was created like that but I don't know about Ainz. If their game followed the same rules as most other games, then in-game action (such as killing good aligned players or monsters) would cause one's sense of justice to drop. Ainz Ooal Gown was a PK/PKK guild but based on what I read so far, Touch Me seemed to be more of a PKK then active PKer so the players he killed were most likely evil-aligned. And he enjoyed helping others. So most likely, his current in-game alignment, if he's also transported over to that world, is probably close to Sebas's. A good guy. Also, wasn't his job class a paladin? Touch me won't show up. He retired and left his gear with Ainz. |
| Oh yeah, wasn't Niguredo, who tried to free the human captives captured during Volume 6, also a member of the Heteromorphic Race? And she's a particular gruesome specimen right? But she doesn't despise humans if she tried to free captives at the risk of incurring Ainz's wrath. So maybe that's her character settings talking? |
Darklight0303 said: Touch me won't show up. He retired and left his gear with Ainz. Can't know that for sure. We still don't know how Ainz and other players got transported there in the first place. If being logged in was a requirement, then we don't know if Touch Me logged in after all. Sure he quit the guild, but that doesn't mean his character's deleted by the GM. Also, wasn't it mentioned in one of the earlier chapters that old players who quit the game could still make a second character and log in for the last day's shutting? Ainz himself also quit the game for 2 years prior to returning to the game for the shutting down thing. Who knows what Touch Me's real world persona did during those 2 years. Created another character and power leveled to 100? Returned as Touch Me, bought another building elsewhere and just chilled around? |
| As for racial traits affecting alignment, I read through the previous chapters and there are two interesting points to note. #1 Minotaurs In the first chapter of volume 7, the author mentioned a minotaur who championed for human rights in a minotaur city which used humans as food. That probably meant that minotaurs in the game were designed to be "evil" by human standards. I mean, eating another sentient life form? Pretty evil, I would say. But that minotaur who championed for human rights must be a good-aligned one. And since the author said he's the same minotaur who proposed making air-conditioners and fridges, he's most likely a Player from the real world. # Vampires Vampires are traditionally evil. Shalltear is a vampire and she's evil. So are the vampire subordinates in Nazerick. But Evileye from Blue Rose is a vampire too and she's not evil. And unlike the minotaur, she's an NPC. So my theory is that sentient NPCs can make decisions and overcome character settings like racial traits. Keep an eye on Evileye. She's an undead who overcame her race's lack of empathy towards humans. Ainz's a Player who lived another life as a human. So no excuses for him. |
Teckmeister said: Darklight0303 said: Touch me won't show up. He retired and left his gear with Ainz. Can't know that for sure. We still don't know how Ainz and other players got transported there in the first place. If being logged in was a requirement, then we don't know if Touch Me logged in after all. Sure he quit the guild, but that doesn't mean his character's deleted by the GM. Also, wasn't it mentioned in one of the earlier chapters that old players who quit the game could still make a second character and log in for the last day's shutting? Ainz himself also quit the game for 2 years prior to returning to the game for the shutting down thing. Who knows what Touch Me's real world persona did during those 2 years. Created another character and power leveled to 100? Returned as Touch Me, bought another building elsewhere and just chilled around? Someone as honorable as Touch me would go around behind Ainz's back and make another guild? Serously? Are you seriously proposing such a ridiculous thing? The players of Ainz Oal gown quit the game because Real life was more important. For them to suddenly come online on the last day and not contact Momonga at all? come on. As for the second character theory, that's useless too. If they made a second character then they are not the supreme beings those of Nazarick worship so again no point. |
Darklight0303 said: Someone as honorable as Touch me would go around behind Ainz's back and make another guild? Serously? Are you seriously proposing such a ridiculous thing? The players of Ainz Oal gown quit the game because Real life was more important. For them to suddenly come online on the last day and not contact Momonga at all? come on. As for the second character theory, that's useless too. If they made a second character then they are not the supreme beings those of Nazarick worship so again no point. No, I am not suggesting Touch Me built another guild. If the game had the option to purchase buildings then he could have bought a house to stay in. And it could be in another country (like the Southern Land). Or another continent. Also, we still don't know if Touch Me would join another guild or start one himself. Originally, he started the guild by recruiting players who were picked on by other players. There were 9 originally but it grew to 41. He could have felt disillusioned with the new guild with members who enjoyed PKing too much (such as the creator of Demiurge?) and who didn't like helping other players. You noticed that apart from Sebas, the other guardian-level NPCs are all evil-aligned? If NPCs are a reflection of their creators, then Touch Me could have felt out of place amongst the 40 other guild members. As for the 2nd character theory, there's a point to it. Even if the Nazerick NPCs don't worship the newly created character, Ainz would still recognize his old comrade. That's the point. And the words of another Player who used to be in the same guild would hold more weight than those of NPCs. |
Teckmeister said: You noticed that apart from Sebas, the other guardian-level NPCs are all evil-aligned? The evil alignment thing is iffy , since there are humans who do way more evil things. It's probably based on how much they value life or justice or something. |
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ichii_1 said: The evil alignment thing is iffy , since there are humans who do way more evil things. It's probably based on how much they value life or justice or something. Of course, and I bet if this new world has such a thing as character sheets, we would also see that members of Eight Fingers would have evil-alignment as well. I am not suggesting that the NPCs got their evil alignment just because of their race. More likely, they got the numbers due to the customization of their creators. |
| Remember, one of Ainz's guild member actually said once, "Since they think we are evil, let's be evil!" Something like that. |
| Just finished reading all of Volume 7! There are some questions I have plot-wise... Ainz himself was the person who set the whole thing in motion right? He was the one who got that head wizard guy to persuade the emperor to send teams of workers into the tomb to test its defense, right? And so it led to the emperor assigning the project to one of his nobles which in turn led to team Foresight and the others getting hired, right? Everyone died. Okay, I understand. But whose voice was it that Entoma stole? The half-elf or Arche? Abeldo said "rude girl" but in their eyes, all invaders were "rude"... Thanks for reading and answering my questions... |
Teckmeister said: Just finished reading all of Volume 7! There are some questions I have plot-wise... Ainz himself was the person who set the whole thing in motion right? He was the one who got that head wizard guy to persuade the emperor to send teams of workers into the tomb to test its defense, right? And so it led to the emperor assigning the project to one of his nobles which in turn led to team Foresight and the others getting hired, right? Everyone died. Okay, I understand. But whose voice was it that Entoma stole? The half-elf or Arche? Abeldo said "rude girl" but in their eyes, all invaders were "rude"... Thanks for reading and answering my questions... The half elf became a nest plus she was not what you could call a GIRL. The only girl that fits the definition is Arche. Plus Arche did throw up at the sight of Ainz's magnificent power so that would probably qualify as rude. |
Takuan_Soho said: I wouldn't have such an issue had the evil been more, well grand, instead of pretty pathetic. His revenge on weak opponents (who weren't even adventurers because they were desperate to earn a buck - something that the MC did just 2 volumes ago) doesn't really have any grip to it. I wouldn't even call it evil as much as sad; it's the equivalent of being a wanton boy pulling wings off of flies. It's third tier evil, which I will say is in keeping with his salaryman origins, but the problem with that is that it doesn't suggest that we will get true evil, but rather that this will turn this into a boring morality play. I agree. Although my question about the true mastermind behind the workers' invasion hasn't been answered yet, I am kinda 95% sure. So having said that, I would like to add on to what you said. His evil in this volume was truly petty. Because if he's the one who originally set everything in motion, what right did he have to complain about thieves invading his tomb? Those workers WOULDN'T have invaded the tomb if Ainz hadn't arranged the job in the first place! If he merely wanted to test the tomb's defenses, he could have trained a crack team of lizardmen to do it right? Or even bettter, let the guardians have their servants test the security system. And they need not die too since they are all on the same side. As someone who lived another life as a citizen of modern Japan, he ought to know about training scenarios used by modern police forces and armies. At least superficially from movies and TV shows. Getting the workers to do the job seem like a wanton waste of lives and something done to satisfy the perverse tastes of Nazerick's denizens. Because it was obvious to Ainz (while disguised as Momon) that the workers were way too weak. So if he was truly worried about the hidden enemies who brainwashed Shalltear, using the workers as test subjects would be useless. To me, it was like wanting to test the acid resistance of some armor by using lemonade. Ainz's logic here seemed like rapist logic. I work in the security industry so I met my fair share of ex-cops. Some of them told me really incredible stories of what criminals said. Darnest Things Criminals Said During Interrogations. Take rapists for example. There were some sick perverts who actually justified their actions by saying things like: "Well, I DID ask her if she wanted to come to my party. She said yes so I did it with her. What's wrong? If she didn't want to have sex she shouldn't have accepted the invitation to my party!" Or the more usual, "If she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't be wearing those clothes." If you think scums like that deserved to be raped in prison or castrated, then wish the same on Ainz. Because he justified the extermination of Team Foresight, AFTER they begged for mercy and offered to recompense Ainz, by saying something like, "Oh, I did ask you first and you said you came because of money so I can kill you." It would have been different if he made some attempt to scare them off first. No. He just asked them why they came and they said "money" so he felt justified in killing them. But wasn't he an adventurer who worked hard for money in the first place? Didn't he go to the guild regularly to grab up well-paying jobs? So why should he suddenly see "money" as the "wrong" reason to take on a job? Just like a rapist who himself got raped in prison, he failed to see what went wrong with his logic. Also, the way he overpowered the weaker workers was something like a rapist would do. Based on reports in the news and stories from those ex-cops I worked with, many rapists act only when the difference in strength is overwhelmingly clear. Truly. One. Of. The. Most. Pathetic. Antagonists. As far as villains are concerned, Ainz fall short of the top rankers like Aizen from Bleach. And no, this isn't some complex morality play. You will make it seem like rapists have some tragically noble reasons for raping. And yes, rapists do have their humane sides. Some rapists actually have normal and loving families. But that doesn't make their raping noble or complex or whatever. Ainz here behaved like a third rate criminal, like a rapist, who believed "I can but others can't do it to me because it would hurt...ow". |
Teckmeister said: Takuan_Soho said: I wouldn't have such an issue had the evil been more, well grand, instead of pretty pathetic. His revenge on weak opponents (who weren't even adventurers because they were desperate to earn a buck - something that the MC did just 2 volumes ago) doesn't really have any grip to it. I wouldn't even call it evil as much as sad; it's the equivalent of being a wanton boy pulling wings off of flies. It's third tier evil, which I will say is in keeping with his salaryman origins, but the problem with that is that it doesn't suggest that we will get true evil, but rather that this will turn this into a boring morality play. I agree. Although my question about the true mastermind behind the workers' invasion hasn't been answered yet, I am kinda 95% sure. So having said that, I would like to add on to what you said. His evil in this volume was truly petty. Because if he's the one who originally set everything in motion, what right did he have to complain about thieves invading his tomb? Those workers WOULDN'T have invaded the tomb if Ainz hadn't arranged the job in the first place! If he merely wanted to test the tomb's defenses, he could have trained a crack team of lizardmen to do it right? Or even bettter, let the guardians have their servants test the security system. And they need not die too since they are all on the same side. As someone who lived another life as a citizen of modern Japan, he ought to know about training scenarios used by modern police forces and armies. At least superficially from movies and TV shows. Getting the workers to do the job seem like a wanton waste of lives and something done to satisfy the perverse tastes of Nazerick's denizens. Because it was obvious to Ainz (while disguised as Momon) that the workers were way too weak. So if he was truly worried about the hidden enemies who brainwashed Shalltear, using the workers as test subjects would be useless. To me, it was like wanting to test the acid resistance of some armor by using lemonade. Ainz's logic here seemed like rapist logic. I work in the security industry so I met my fair share of ex-cops. Some of them told me really incredible stories of what criminals said. Darnest Things Criminals Said During Interrogations. Take rapists for example. There were some sick perverts who actually justified their actions by saying things like: "Well, I DID ask her if she wanted to come to my party. She said yes so I did it with her. What's wrong? If she didn't want to have sex she shouldn't have accepted the invitation to my party!" Or the more usual, "If she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't be wearing those clothes." If you think scums like that deserved to be raped in prison or castrated, then wish the same on Ainz. Because he justified the extermination of Team Foresight, AFTER they begged for mercy and offered to recompense Ainz, by saying something like, "Oh, I did ask you first and you said you came because of money so I can kill you." It would have been different if he made some attempt to scare them off first. No. He just asked them why they came and they said "money" so he felt justified in killing them. But wasn't he an adventurer who worked hard for money in the first place? Didn't he go to the guild regularly to grab up well-paying jobs? So why should he suddenly see "money" as the "wrong" reason to take on a job? Just like a rapist who himself got raped in prison, he failed to see what went wrong with his logic. Also, the way he overpowered the weaker workers was something like a rapist would do. Based on reports in the news and stories from those ex-cops I worked with, many rapists act only when the difference in strength is overwhelmingly clear. Truly. One. Of. The. Most. Pathetic. Antagonists. As far as villains are concerned, Ainz fall short of the top rankers like Aizen from Bleach. And no, this isn't some complex morality play. You will make it seem like rapists have some tragically noble reasons for raping. And yes, rapists do have their humane sides. Some rapists actually have normal and loving families. But that doesn't make their raping noble or complex or whatever. Ainz here behaved like a third rate criminal, like a rapist, who believed "I can but others can't do it to me because it would hurt...ow". A rapist? Wow you're so deluded it's not even funny anymore. Welcome to the ignore list. |
Teckmeister said: Ainz himself was the person who set the whole thing in motion right? Demiurge proposed the plan, Ainz didn't like it but he reluctantly did it since it was a good plan and didn't want to waste demiurge's efforts. And yes Ainz is a hypocrite, he even says so when he killed clementine. I also think the fact he got so angry about them coming in the guild and stealing was due to his lich self. One of the things that changes when become a lich is in exchange for your limited emotion, your most precious emotions serve as the base for your psyche, in ainz's case his love for the guild and his former guild players (not confirmed just what I think it does) |
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ichii_1 said: Demiurge proposed the plan, Ainz didn't like it but he reluctantly did it since it was a good plan and didn't want to waste demiurge's efforts. And yes Ainz is a hypocrite, he even says so when he killed clementine. I also think the fact he got so angry about them coming in the guild and stealing was due to his lich self. One of the things that changes when become a lich is in exchange for your limited emotion, your most precious emotions serve as the base for your psyche, in ainz's case his love for the guild and his former guild players (not confirmed just what I think it does) Yeah Demiurge. I think he's a bad influence on Ainz to be honest. He (Ainz) should hang out with Sebas more often. By right, that should be the case since Sebas is the butler. They ought to develop a Bruce Wayne/Alfred relationship. Oh by the way, regarding racial traits. I think I saw this line about Demiurge. Although he's a demon, he's supposedly different from the demons outside of Nazerick in that he's actually capable of showing a kind side (to his comrades at least). Then there's Shalltear. This bit is not so clear because I can't remember if it was by the author or a comment from one of the characters in that world. But it was something about Shalltear being different from other vampires of her kind and they were wondering about that. So I would be careful about placing too much importance on racial attributes when it comes to the Nazerick denizens (especially Ainz who's a Player). But what you said about having one's precious memories serve as the base of one's psyche sounds correct too. Until the author clarifies that, we can't be absolutely sure. On the other hand, the author may already have left clues. Like for example we have seen how goblins created from the game item (that horn) are capable of intelligent conversation and showing kindness, right? Very different from the native goblins Ainz and the Darkness adventurers encountered. And there's the story about a goblin hero who fought against some demon god? Guessing that's a Player who chose a goblin race. And he overcame the racial trait of being evil obviously. Like that minotaur hero who fought for human rights. I know Ainz's lack of empathy towards humans played a part in the dickheadedness shown in this volume, but maybe if he had spent more time with Sebas and Wanko... You know, Nurture vs. Nature... |
| There's one line that appeared after Ainz had his meeting with Albedo and Entoma. You know, when he heard all the gruesome details of what was done to Arche. This line: 'Watching the two of them bow, Ainz couldn’t help but feel that somewhere, somehow, something had gone wrong, and replied with an “umu”. ' What do you think? Still some hope for Ainz to regain his humanity? Or basically a death flag for the last bit of his humanity? |
| Oh btw, for those of you who wish to wash away the bad aftertaste of Ainz in Volume 7, you can try doing what I just did. Watch Dragon Ball episodes. Then visualize Goku appearing before Ainz in that arena and saying: "Your battle level is only 120,000,000? hmpf. What garbage." Ah... now I feel slightly, very slightly, better. |
Teckmeister said: This line: 'Watching the two of them bow, Ainz couldn’t help but feel that somewhere, somehow, something had gone wrong, and replied with an “umu”. ' What do you think? Still some hope for Ainz to regain his humanity? Or basically a death flag for the last bit of his humanity? It was just ainz acting like he knows what he's doing XD His momon persona is also vital for his human side since it keeps him in touch with his humanity, it will also play big role at the end of the series maybe he chooses momon over ainz at the end :( ----- If it helps the author said what happened to arche's sisters in his blog. "They were sold into slavery and died some time later" :P |
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ichii_1 said: It was just ainz acting like he knows what he's doing XD His momon persona is also vital for his human side since it keeps him in touch with his humanity, it will also play big role at the end of the series maybe he chooses momon over ainz at the end :( ----- If it helps the author said what happened to arche's sisters in his blog. "They were sold into slavery and died some time later" :P The author did? But didn't you say in a previous post that maybe they might be revived? That was a post made in September. So the author recently came out and said so. Can I have the link please? |
| ^I don't have a source, people just translate what he says some times. I think it was way earlier than my comment. The revival is just what I think might happen, since fruder thinks highly of arche's potential he might ask ainz to revive her. |
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| Yeah okay. That's a possibility. Actually, now that I come to think of it, with that 3 Wishes Ring Ainz has, everything is a possibility. |
ichii_1 said: ^I don't have a source, people just translate what he says some times. I think it was way earlier than my comment. The revival is just what I think might happen, since fruder thinks highly of arche's potential he might ask ainz to revive her. Any potential Arche has, Fluder surpasses it by light years. I wouldn't get my hopes up. Besides Fluder threw the emperor under the bus for power. Arch is much less important to him than the boy he raised. |
Takuan_Soho said: I am not sure if that is what they are complaining about, I also really didn't like this volume. Not because it went "dark", but because it went stupid. I wouldn't have such an issue had the evil been more, well grand, instead of pretty pathetic. His revenge on weak opponents (who weren't even adventurers because they were desperate to earn a buck - something that the MC did just 2 volumes ago) doesn't really have any grip to it. I wouldn't even call it evil as much as sad; it's the equivalent of being a wanton boy pulling wings off of flies. It's third tier evil, which I will say is in keeping with his salaryman origins, but the problem with that is that it doesn't suggest that we will get true evil, but rather that this will turn this into a boring morality play. I want glorious evil, the fascinating thing about "overlords" in history is how audacious they were. Sure they may kill 40,000 people and stack their heads in pyramids as a warning, but they at least were willing to put themselves into their actions. We get a little bit of that later, but it isn't developed as well as it could have been. I want a satan like seducer, someone who can convince "good" people to do horrible things. To see him manipulate those "agents" into betraying their previous values would have been incredible, but to see an OP beat up on weaklings, not so much. If I want pathetic evil, I just need to read the newspaper. Fiction should aim higher. I could not agree with you more. In my personal opinion overlord excels at one specific thing, bringing greater evil upon evil doers. At times Ainz would give off this "Spawn" feeling. But spending nearly half of the book making us CARE about team Foresight and then kill them off was just CRUEL. I liked the characters and I hated how author just wrote them off. |
| I shall know no fear as I am fear incarnated |
| Oh, come on everyone. There's always been a hint of humor to this series as well, ya know. The moment Ainz looses all sense of his humanity is probably where it'll end. It's when he starts making the evil schemes instead of following the schemes of his subordinates or when he learns he'll never see his guild members again. Pretty much the only family he had. He's been holding on to hope this whole time, which has held back his actions till now. Slowly, the NPCs have become his new family and he won't hesitate to provide them with rewards for achieving their duties. (you know what I refer to when I say rewards) Anyhow, since everyone is nitpicking how dark it was and could've be, I'll be the voice of humor. You have to admit there was humor in including the maids' commentary as the workers were being massacred. There was also some humor in a monster wearing seductive clothing, acting in a seductive manner, Ainz's embaressed reaction, and asking a human for their honest opinion... Oh, I can continue. Hamsuke's fight with the elitist and the smalltalk afterward with the lizardmen. I wish Ainz would consider recruiting those elves, but I highly doubt he'd go back on his word after blurting out they'd all die. Lesson: Always expect the worst case scenario so you don't get your hopes up. At least, that's what I got out of it. As for Albedo, not as much humor as earlier chapters, but it's good that the author isn't milking her... Safe! Lastly, Albedo's and Entoma's reaction to Ainz's comment on not being wasteful. Beautiful. T_T |
ReloadJun 11, 2016 7:13 PM
| Give me at least 5 minutes to modify my post before quoting me. (refreshing page advised) |
Reload said: Oh, come on everyone. There's always been a hint of humor to this series as well, ya know. The moment Ainz looses all sense of his humanity is probably where it'll end. It's when he starts making the evil schemes instead of following the schemes of his subordinates or when he learns he'll never see his guild members again. Pretty much the only family he had. He's been holding on to hope this whole time, which has held back his actions till now. Slowly, the NPCs have become his new family and he won't hesitate to provide them with rewards for achieving their duties. (you know what I refer to when I say rewards) Anyhow, since everyone is nitpicking how dark it was and could've be, I'll be the voice of humor. You have to admit there was humor in including the maids' commentary as the workers were being massacred. There was also some humor in a monster wearing seductive clothing, acting in a seductive manner, Ainz's embaressed reaction, and asking a human for their honest opinion... Oh, I can continue. Hamsuke's fight with the elitist and the smalltalk afterward with the lizardmen. I wish Ainz would consider recruiting those elves, but I highly doubt he'd go back on his word after blurting out they'd all die. Lesson: Always expect the worst case scenario so you don't get your hopes up. At least, that's what I got out of it. As for Albedo, not as much humor as earlier chapters, but it's good that the author isn't milking her... Safe! Lastly, Albedo's and Entoma's reaction to Ainz's comment on not being wasteful. Beautiful. T_T No I think he'll spare the elves. For one they were slaves and two they are heteromorph with a HUGE grudge to take out on the Slane Theocracy |
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