Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 5 Discussion

ssjokg said:

maybe the "Dead" meant that she looked like a dead body"Skin white as wax.
"The blue-black veins that popped up tore her looks into shards.
An expression, full with near-death anguish, filled her face.
She is about to die – that was obvious.
Although she’s about to die, she was still writhing." and not a reference in the The Dead,since the only way to become one is to become one is to be bitten by a vampire(aka Dead Apostle) which means you will take some of his blood in you

Yanoflies said:
1. You don't turn into a Dead Apostle that quickly ... and not everyone can ...
2. Cornelius Alba !!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Tsukihime I thought I read only 1/100 (or was that even less?) could turn into a DP. And that it wasn't instant.

Wasabi said:
Urobuchi should just make a zombiepocalypse story.

TheRealBoyd said:
>This topic
>People complaining that the MAIN CHARACTER is getting screentime

I swear to god nobody would complain if it was a Saber episode. Or three.

There's not enough left of the flashback in the LNs to make a whole other episode about this, and the Heart of Freaks story is just a random side story thing. There's no way that'll be in the next episode. All that's really left for this flashback is

TheRealBoyd said:
>This topic
>People complaining that the MAIN CHARACTER is getting screentime

I swear to god nobody would complain if it was a Saber episode. Or three.

Wasabi said:
Urobuchi should just make a zombiepocalypse story.

Thess said:
It's exactly like Rin episode. They take a small instance and stretch it unnecessarily while they cram actual relevant plot developments for the story: Irisviel's condition, Kirei's transformation. Both that actually, you know, move the plot?

LunarMoon said:
Let us tell the story of a certain man. The tale of a man who, more than anyone else, believed in his ideals, and by them was driven into despair.

You can't compare Kiritsugu's importance in Fate/Zero to that of Rin's.

Mockman said:

It's often referred to as Madoka Magica. Not your typical zombies though.




It's still irrelevant to this story. I don't need to know who Kiritsugu's crush was when he was a teenager. He's less interesting now than he was. Previously, when Kotomine was slapping Kiritsugu's wife and girlfriend around, it bothered him that he couldn't understand what motivated those women to act as they did, given his understanding of Kiritsugu. I bet he knew that this episode was coming and that's why he's lost interest in Kiritsugu and becoming more interested in Matou.

Maybe it's unrelated but I can't for a moment see who the despair quote is about. Not anyone in this episode, at least, 'cause it didn't seem like any of them had any ideals.

While as a throwaway episode, this was done well, I think it would have been better as an OVA. I dunno how this story is going to end up, but given the torrid pace they've kept, I can't see them being able to waste at least a full episode here. The flashback during his earlier battle was tolerable because it was relatively brief, and because it fit the moment. It's easy to see a character, as he waits, reflecting on how he got there.

This digression is disappointing. It feels like the show's creators took their collective foot off the pedal.

Totentanz said:
Interestingly, Kiritsugu's father appears to bear similarities with Tokiomi Tohsaka as both of them consider searching for the root more important than anything else, with negative outcome for the ones around them.

In both cases it's an error of judgment they made that led to their demise. Just like Tokiomi never fully understood his student Kirei, Kiritsugu's father failed to understand what was truly important to his son, resulting in getting backstabbed by them. His seemingly lack of caring destroyed Kiritsugu's image of his father, whom he believed to be a "good" person, a man who sought to help humanity.

s2012k1993 said:
All this complaining/praise for Kiritsugu's back-story helped me realize why there is a need for this episode.



What Totentanz brought up about the similarities in the two deaths is crucial to one's understanding of Kirei. No wonder Kirei finds Kiritsugu ominous and someone very much like himself. If we did not know the motivation for Kirei in killing Tokiomi and the motivation for Kiristsugu in killing his father, the similarities between the two would lead one to conclude that their intent was very similar. However, that is not true. Kiristsugu killed because he was affected by the death of his first love and the demise of his village; whereas, Kirei killed to essentially amuse himself.

The lack of humanity in Kirei contrasts with our main character, who is very much human. Before this episode, we couldn't have identified whether Kiristugu was the product of his tragic environment or some idealist distanced from the rest of humanity, like Kirei (Kirei is an idealist in the sense, he only cares about getting his job done or his amusement at the end of the day). This episode and the next as well will further clarify Saber's incorrect statement: Kiritsugu is a monster. It isn't Kiritsugu who is the monster, it's Kirei.

Thess said:
My God, Kiritsugu is a failure as main character. Where is his charisma? I'm so disconnected to him. I nearly fell asleep halfway of this episode.

Meh worthy. The only remarkable thing I can praise about it is of the production values: great animation and music. Oh and the Alba cameo.

Overall, this season has been so weak compared to the first one in terms of adaptation where the only episode which I can say was terrible was the Rin's episode. The only episode I can say it was good of this season was the premiere one.

So disappointing Ufotable.

NoobHunterD said:
ZOMBIES! Should have a part where otto-san forces Shirley to take the pillz because if she took it herself then she is dumb.

Thess said:
My God, Kiritsugu is a failure as main character. Where is his charisma? I'm so disconnected to him. I nearly fell asleep halfway of this episode.

Meh worthy. The only remarkable thing I can praise about it is of the production values: great animation and music. Oh and the Alba cameo.

Overall, this season has been so weak compared to the first one in terms of adaptation where the only episode which I can say was terrible was the Rin's episode. The only episode I can say it was good of this season was the premiere one.

So disappointing Ufotable.

BloodRequiem said:


imo perhaps the point is to show that deep inside kiritsugu is a weak man
subconsciously he refuses to admit that its his inability to kill shirley that caused the extermination of the island but instead pushes the blame onto his father (not saying that his father isnt at fault) and this eventually leads him to become the man he is
he only knows how to destroy evil but doesnt know how to create good
and if his father forced shirley to take the potion then maybe we dont get that insight

Mockman said:

It's often referred to as Madoka Magica. Not your typical zombies though.




It's still irrelevant to this story. I don't need to know who Kiritsugu's crush was when he was a teenager. He's less interesting now than he was. Previously, when Kotomine was slapping Kiritsugu's wife and girlfriend around, it bothered him that he couldn't understand what motivated those women to act as they did, given his understanding of Kiritsugu. I bet he knew that this episode was coming and that's why he's lost interest in Kiritsugu and becoming more interested in Matou.

Maybe it's unrelated but I can't for a moment see who the despair quote is about. Not anyone in this episode, at least, 'cause it didn't seem like any of them had any ideals.

While as a throwaway episode, this was done well, I think it would have been better as an OVA. I dunno how this story is going to end up, but given the torrid pace they've kept, I can't see them being able to waste at least a full episode here. The flashback during his earlier battle was tolerable because it was relatively brief, and because it fit the moment. It's easy to see a character, as he waits, reflecting on how he got there.

This digression is disappointing. It feels like the show's creators took their collective foot off the pedal.

Wasabi said:
Urobuchi should just make a zombiepocalypse story.

wishbook said:


It would be awesome, do want this. There's not enough dark & serious zombiepocalypse animes out there. (animes like HotD contains more fanservice that action)

BloodRequiem said:

kirei looking to find pleasure in his life- not human
kiritsugu hanging on to reality through a childish ideal-human
rlly? whats that logic?

anyways this episode is not pointless
it just shows us how twisted the world and kiritsugu's sense of justice is which all ties into his realization in the conclusion

BloodRequiem said:


i consider HOTD hentai without sex
anyways id like to see him deconstruct the zombie/vampire genre...tsukihime 2 perhaps?

s2012k1993 said:


It's not that seeking pleasure is inhuman, but seeking pleasure by killing is a quality we associate with a monster. On the other hand, Kiritsugu kills because of his experiences as a human. The emotional juggernaut he experienced as a child can explain his rationale behind his killing, which I would consider to be very human. When it comes to killing others, Kiritsugu is more human (we can empathize more with) than Kirei. However, I don't claim that killing is better if it's done by a human than a monster. That is up for grabs.

I agree with you on the point that Kiritsugu is weak in that he is willing to take the path of least resistance to achieve his goals. I'm sure there was an alternative to killing his own father, but he never realizes that. Focusing on a certain goal, he is unwilling to discriminate between methods i.e. he has no principles when it comes to killing. Is this the right way to treat killing? That is up for debate between believers in just war, realists and pacifists. But weak does not necessarily translate into wrong. Therefore, we may call Kiritsugu weak, but most certainly, not wrong.

All this begs the question: is Kirei any stronger or is he simply a sadistic monster with the sole goal of increasing his own pleasure.

Cratex said:
Why? I learned how to use guns at around 12 or 13 - was hunting not long after. Also, a semi-auto pistol is easy to use - by design - shove the magazine in, cock it (if even required), and start shooting. The only tricky part would be the safety, and often that's obvious as well.

BossLuffy said:


Lol..bad parenting.

yokaii said:
For some reason I'm really getting bored with this anime, the last season was far superior by this point.
But still, the visuals and sound don't stop to amaze me.

Nara-Sama said:
I couldn't help but think of "Dead Island" when hell broke lose and the vampire's attacked.

Zhou said:
Holy shit, I didn't see any of this coming. Is Shirley really dead, Kiritsugu didn't kill her since he didn't touch the dagger, right?

Maurox said:
F/Z Is TYPE-MOON at it's best. More elaborate and longer than KnK, more spectacular than Tsukihime and darker than FSN, but not too dark.

Zhou said:
Okay, I didn't read the LN and I didn't read/watch Tsukihime nor Kara no Kyoukai, so I have pretty much no idea what you are talking about (interesting, though) but since you guys say they are taking place in the same universe (which I didn't know) I should do it to fully understand everything. I did plan on watching KyK but any advices on which to go with first?