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Well, that's alright. I think the issue is pretty much resolved anyway.

Points 0 and 3 are the most important, and I guess there is nothing more to say — We pay attention to different things. As we both said before, the author chose to not do it in a certain way — That isn't necessarily a demerit or bad writing per se, but are choices made nonetheless. Also, I never read JJK, but I'll say this: There are levels of contrivances, it can be contrived without being at Togashi's HxH levels. I will believe you that it is riddled with contrivances, as it is inspired by Togashi.

Points 1 and 4 have gone into tangents a long time ago. I think you're giving too much à priori leeway to the writing. I'll give an example: What we're calling issue 4.2.

1 — Marcille supposedly always had this dream related to difference in aging.
1.1 — So interested to the point of take on adventuring and learning highly frowned upon magic
2 — Marcille knows about tall-man anatomy.
3 — Marcille's mother was a court mage at some (allegedly) short-lived court.

Yes, it is possible that someone does have this life and

1 — Doesn't notice or care when the difference in age is paramount to what is happening (twice).
2 — Doesn't meet more than one male tall-man.
3 — The Death of her father (and maybe an lesser extent, her bird) is enough to kick off the dream, but not enough to learn the actual difference in aging.

It is possible, but this is a fictional work. There was ample opportunity to develop this dream beforehand, and the author chose to focus on something else. It seems these are characters you enjoyed and, honestly, you do you, keep loving them. I was only laying out what I saw while I was reading, and I cannot ignore this without being deceitful with people reading the review. There are a lot of positive reviews, I am sure people that are closer to you in their preferences will still read it. Furthermore, I don't find anything interesting in looking at the things I didn't like about this work or any other work. This conversation hangs on “Is there a reason to change the review?” and, frankly, we're steering further and further away from that. Character writing isn't even really a focal point of it.

I always rather talk about what I like and what there is to like, and I don't believe I was unfair with Laios — I made an exception for him in the review, and don't think his bashful nature explains everything he ends up doing. Likewise, I like your character analysis on him, you seem to like the character a lot and that is awesome. I don't know how different Japanese or American “Otakus” are, but one of my favorite characters also falls into those general therms, albeit a lot more literal at that (Gwenpool, from Marvel Comics).

Conclusion, we like different stuff and that is alright. Good talk.

He definitely has potential, and is able to be more abstract, I think he just needs someone good at writing to look over him and work with him

0 — Your disagreement is not grounds for it to be terrible. People like and pay attention to different things, and I am somewhat clear on the things I like. People reading the review can go to my page and see if they are closer to my style or yours. There is no work of fiction that is perfect for every single person → When the author choose to focus of plot on most scenes, you have to leave characterization and world building behind, and vice versa.

1 — So, the question remains, why did he start the journey? You mention 'job' and 'money'. But those are not real. Laios is not paying them, and why would they be so loyal to any job done with non-friends? I didn't find this talk about slow digestion in chapter 26 or later ones, and I don't understand how that connects to this point? Who cares if it is feasible? If they were not friends, why take this course of action?

2 — Glad we're dropping this one. It was pointless from the beginning.

3 — I didn't complain at the story-telling. I answered your question. The author chose to develop a certain aspect of the narrative and neglect others. There was no need to delve in their finer interaction at any point in here or in any arc in particular. The author made the choice to do something else every time.

I think I barely complained about story-telling per se in my review. The author is good at keeping the audience invested with interesting developments, concepts and world, I won't deny that. Otherwise, your counterpoint doesn't really relate to the topic — Yes, they somewhat see each other differently, but the issue was never that there isn't character development, but that they seemed to not really learn anything or do anything when the camera is not showing.

4.1 — That doesn't touch the issue again. “It's Laios” cannot be an answer when discussing “What is Laios?”. Unless you're simply assuming his character is well written and going from there: I certainly am not. Looking at what the work has established, what are the reasons behind hiding Kensuke and revealing the use of Ancient Magic? The group resisting eating monsters is completely different from taking them as pets: They were willing to take Anne as a pet, they didn't ever oppose Kensuke as a pet, while they were still occasionally complaining about eating monsters well after that point.

4.2 — That doesn't really address the point either. If Chilchuk is the closed off because he doesn't share his age, why didn't the others share their ages? This is the kind of thing that nobody would question if happened in the background and is even alluded, but instead the character doesn't even seem to know.

As for “Marcille had never seen a tall, masculine tallman other than her father, he is the only person she saw die alongside her puppy of old age”. That is disingenuous. She lived amongst humans, she should have seen some other tallman, and being masculine and tall shouldn't make any difference. However, even if true, the impact of her father's death should be enough. Her dream relates to that, and the different rate of aging was a very significant aspect of her early life. It is part of the reason she was in the dungeon in the first place.

4.3 — I am going to the same point. And yes, they didn't even talk to Marcille. Mithrun teleported Izutsumi and attacked Marcille without even ever having any interaction with any of the main party. After that point, they only talk about Marcille's credentials and even so, it is expressly said they weren't even paying attention.

Exactly, “You don't know how to read subtext” is clearly an ad hominem. A clear lack of respect for the topic of discussion — Dungeon Meshi is not defined by me or my opinion. You also know nothing about me, so this line can only lower the level of the whole conversation. You've been respectful this time, so I'll answer.

0 — How is my criticism terrible? I've been both hearing you and was as detailed as I could without spoilers in my review.

1 — Yes. Exactly what I said. Chilchuck had not thought about it deeply before, but they definitely were friends.

2 — Yes. Exactly, these smaller groups do typically get very close.

3 — Yes. Exactly. If you want an example: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Part 3 is an example where the author always nails this. There are scenes where they are shown having an intricate handshake or when a shape-shifter sneaks into the group, they ask him to do tricks that we have never seen. It just shows how much closer they are and how much they got to know each other. Dungeon Meshi even has such an opportunity, when the shape-shifters infiltrate our team, everything Laius had on our main cast was stuff that happened on-screen. Even Marcille carelessness is exactly equal to something that happened on-screen.

While progress happens both on and off camera, that is only true for the plot — which is a given. It is unreasonable to show every little thing everyone is doing.

(Of course, I'm not going to hold everything to JJBA's standards of character writing — Araki reportedly used to write a whole page about even the minor of characters before even placing anything on the page.)

4 — How is it so different? They weren't THAT radical against monsters. Laios is the one that is shown saying that monsters cannot be trusted, mind you — Marcille was in favor of keeping Anne and Chilchuk had no objections and was poking holes at Laios objections.

And how is Ancient Magic so much more acceptable? If anything it was a lot more inadmissible and Laios knew that.

That is also not the only case: The Chilchuk Chapter where he shares his age. Everybody is acting as if he is closed off (mainly Marcille), but nobody actually seems to know the others ages — It comes up after that in same chapter and once again in the changeling episode.

Also in the changeling chapter. Marcille's dream is related to the race's lifespan and her father was human, and she lived amongst humans, but she is the most dumbfounded at the aging differences.

Mithrun is shown very collected on “On the 1st Level”. Which features he actually close to the Demon (his only desire). Against Marcille he doesn't even know if she has it or not and doesn't let her say anything (Until Chilchuk mentions she is an elite amongst elfkind, but she is an elite amongst humankind).

In the same venue. The Canaries are always seen negotiating, and not only with elites, as that included random dude on first level and Kabru in many occasions. When dealing with Marcille there is no hint of hearing or talking their mind.

1 — As I mentioned. If they were not friends, it would be even worse. There is no reason for Chilchuk or Marcille to go for the adventure if they were not friends in some level. It is a lot more reasonable to assume that there was some friendship and they were warming up to it and realizing about it, than it is to say they were purely coworkers.

2 — You're comparing miners with them? There is not that much coordination needed in mining. They are typically a way larger group. They typically unionize and they get paid. There is no comparison to be made here.

3 — Yes. The thing is that there seems to be little to no evidence of her doing any of that off-screen. Nothing that the characters know about each other (aside from Falin) was uncovered off-screen. That's why I used the word 'artificial' — They are not really bad or contrived, but they don't feel like they exist much outside of view.

4 — There is no subtext, that is directly mentioned. I know that, I have read it. Ancient Magic also relates to the same stuff. I was comparing the situations. If Laius were a consistent character, he would have either carelessly talk about both or try to keep both secret.

Finally, I'll delete both your answers and subsequent ones. I am not sure why you need to be offensive about it, but that made me lose interest in this conversation. I'd be open to read about the reasons you like the characters, and I might have been unfair indeed with them, as I forgot to add the good points in that section. However, I don't think that with your answers up until now pay the due respect to the words and are thus pointless.

(Edit for those reading and not part of the conversation: This is about Dungeon Meshi and contains Spoiler)

1 — They are friends. The only one that doesn't act like it is Chilchalk and later Izutsumi. Chilchalk tries to keep professional, but why else would he even be in this adventure? What does he achieve in this? They are friends — And coworkers living 24/7 together also know more than this about each other, typically. You might be right about Izutsumi, but that would miss the point of her character, as she also turns around.

Honestly, this is an unpaid adventure with added risk, it would be even more artificial if you were right.

2 — They are shown talking about stuff when they are on-screen. Any other well written tale would have you suppose they sometimes talk in the same terms when they aren't on-screen: For instance, Marcille is often poking into the others lives, but that seemingly only ever happened on screen. They are otherwise so oblivious of each other that I even got an angry fan, acting as if they weren't even friends.

3 — Why is Laius so secretive about Kensuke, but immediately spills the beans on something obviously worse (ancient magic)?

Wtf is this man, I started reading this and it was so weird lol but i will continue

Do u know any manga that is centred around wrestling especially women wrestling

Same Yu Aida has some problems when it comes to panelling, these problems are mostly in the early chapters, the later chapters look pretty appealing maybe not the best but the characters carry so much for me even the plot is pretty good, it is pretty much like the stand alone episodes of GITS SAC, These non Linear episodes are important in fleshing out the characters and their relationships, even the world, Gunslinger Girl as a whole is pretty reminiscent to Elfen Lied like the core idea of character suffering, treated like the outcast and stuff (Gunslinger is better tho)

Did u just say Lesbian? NOICE

If its like David's movies then im in for it cause i love gory and batshit insane shit so much

That manga in ur fav list "Joshikouhei' reminds me of Tokyo Gore Police

How is Gunslinger Girl manga so far, According to u?

Whose that Gravure Model on your profile pic?

i have and i agree, the new designs for the main characters is only thing that improved with the serialization.

:3