Gekai Elise Episode 3 Discussion

Huh, I can't believe I'd ever say this: This show might be worse than Gray's Anatomy. Overly cheesy, forced dramas, dubious medical accuracy, etc. I mean, what kind of vet surgeon from modern world would let any of their helpers in the surgical theater not wearing proper attires and masks!? Moreover, this is a "power" isekai, but medical....

Some rando: I disagree! Isekai Yakyoku is worse!
Me: Well, yeah, I don't even consider Isekai Yakyoku as a medical title at all in the first place. (Didn't watched the anime tho, but I do read the manga up to certain point)

Well, at least I still consider Gekai Elise as a medical show, albeit not a good one....

I don't know. Maybe the source material did it better? But the anime adaptation definitely did not.

Wan't a good medical show? Monster Musume no Oisha-san is a good fantasy-medical anime. I don't know whether Dr. Koto has an anime, but the manga is terrific! Kusuriya no Hitorigoto is barely a medical title, but at least the characters are fun. Gekkakoku Kiden is a pretty interesting medical title (not receiving anime adaptation yet), with multi-dimensional characters. Unlike Gekai Elise, she's so a 1-D Mary Sue.

I didn't realize that I did until I read your question. Thanks for the suggestions.

I was also bitterly disappointed by Isekai Yakyoku when the main character just kept manifesting matter out of nothing and introduced evil spirits. I also agree that Apothecary Diaries turned out to be less of a medical show than expected.

Why aren't there many good (or at least popular) medical anime, I wonder? The "Medical" tag on MAL returns a pretty short list.

I know American TV has had quite a few popular medical shows (like Gray's Anatomy that you mentioned), and I've heard of several popular K-dramas in hospital settings. Is it because anime fans generally lean younger and aren't interested in doctors and medicine? It's just a shame.

Alright… I do not work in the medical field but some of my friends do. And I’m pretty convinced you would not send someone who just started (after self-study) to patients without any instructions and much less to extreme cases (not unsupervised). Because as far as everyone else is concerned she is inexperienced. Also I don’t care what kind of world they live in but the fact nobody else thought about cleaning up a hospital is beyond ridiculous. It’s like they want to establish how amazing Elise is as a character so they make everything else (everyone else) around her dysfunctional and incompetent. That’s a very, very bad writing choice. It might have been that in the past not all establishments were focused on hygiene but as far as I understood this one was well off (at least from its reputation). So there is no way this adds up.

Did I miss something or did professor Graham say this station would be were they have “hopeless cases” but 5 minutes later it’s no longer relevant? And I almost thought I could like professor Graham but then he apologizes for using common sense because EVERY sane person would have thought she would need training first. He didn’t judge based on looks he simply concluded what every person would. But instead they decide to put her on a pedestal when I’m pretty sure everyone who would have lead a life as a trained and experienced doctor and remembering everything would have accomplished the same. It’s almost like a scam at this point because everything simply things she was born this way (a genius) when we saw how hard she studied before becoming a doctor. So basically there won’t be any room for character development since she’s already perfect. The character “development” will be other characters worshiping Elise and the path she walks on. That’s great and probably every girl’s dream.

As a writer, this is honestly painful to watch. I’m all in for creative freedom but these trend of female main characters being the ultimate MVP is my personal pet peeve and it needs to be stopped please! Like they don’t even try to hide it with the title of this episode. Honestly, this entire anime seems to revolve around showing us what an amazing character Elise is, they force-feed it onto us and I kind of hate it.

It’s a shame because I really liked the concept. I thought it would be interesting if she would have to really prove herself as a doctor but also got to learn some new ropes and develop as a character along the way. But it seems like this series isn’t going this direction.

I wonder when the emperor will start to build a statue of Elise. At least we will get some interaction between the two main characters in the next episode? My guess would be to show off more of Elise being amazing while Linden gets nothing. I feel sorry for all the irrelevant male main characters nowadays. They seem more passive than every Disney princess from the past (who actually contributed to their stories). But maybe I’m wrong here and he will get his moment to shine.

I'm not a medical professional, but I read that hygiene was not an important (or at least proven to be important) aspect of health care until pretty recently. This article says hand-washing practice only began in mid-1800s (in Europe at least).

Also, Elise's ward was supposed to be for "abandoned" patients, so it's possible that even less care was taken to keep it clean. Maybe that's why they did not even bother supervising the inexperienced doctor stationed there, but I admit this one is a stretch...

Come to think of it, the guy that Elise operates on is mentioned to have broken ribs. So broken ribs is a "hopeless case"...?

I'm trying to give the writers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the medical side of things, because this is technically a "fantasy" setting. But I admit the writers did a very poor job of offering even a flimsy explanation. The least they could do was just mention that no one cares about that wing of the hospital, or that it has no budget...

I could actually tolerate the "overpowered main character worshipped to high heavens" trope if the medical aspect of the show was thought-out and interesting. A lot of detective characters like Holmes are like that, and those stories can still be very entertaining.

I'm not a medical professional, but I read that hygiene was not an important (or at least proven to be important) aspect of health care until pretty recently. This article says hand-washing practice only began in mid-1800s (in Europe at least).

Also, Elise's ward was supposed to be for "abandoned" patients, so it's possible that even less care was taken to keep it clean. Maybe that's why they did not even bother supervising the inexperienced doctor stationed there, but I admit this one is a stretch...

Come to think of it, the guy that Elise operates on is mentioned to have broken ribs. So broken ribs is a "hopeless case"...?

I'm trying to give the writers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the medical side of things, because this is technically a "fantasy" setting. But I admit the writers did a very poor job of offering even a flimsy explanation. The least they could do was just mention that no one cares about that wing of the hospital, or that it has no budget...

I could actually tolerate the "overpowered main character worshipped to high heavens" trope if the medical aspect of the show was thought-out and interesting. A lot of detective characters like Holmes are like that, and those stories can still be very entertaining.

I'm trying to stay optimistic, but after 3 episodes I'm losing faith in this show.

It just feels like a power fantasy. In a single episode, Elise shook hands with Doctor Graham, and she instantly won over the nurses and the patients. No one seriously questions her methods or becomes suspicious about where she received training. The nurses just let her operate on a patient; if I were them I'd check with Graham first before letting a teenage girl who walked in that day anywhere near a scalpel. Everyone just lets her run free and then applauds her genius.

Elise herself does not seem to care about approaching the situation delicately. She just immediately rattles off advanced 21st-century medical knowledge and does everything that would draw attention to her. It's admirable that she wants to help as much as she can, but this won't help her hide her identity.

The setting doesn't seem to be doing much either. It might be too predictable if the doctors of this world are super backwards and ignorant, but what I've seen so far looks basically the same as modern day. They use gauze, disinfectant, anesthetics, scalpels and scrubs. Graham also seems to know about bacterial infections already. It just makes things a little less interesting if Elise already has access to everything that she's used to and everyone already understands what Elise is talking about.

I hope the show proves me wrong, or at least surprise me by going in a different direction.

Alright… I do not work in the medical field but some of my friends do. And I’m pretty convinced you would not send someone who just started (after self-study) to patients without any instructions and much less to extreme cases (not unsupervised). Because as far as everyone else is concerned she is inexperienced. Also I don’t care what kind of world they live in but the fact nobody else thought about cleaning up a hospital is beyond ridiculous. It’s like they want to establish how amazing Elise is as a character so they make everything else (everyone else) around her dysfunctional and incompetent. That’s a very, very bad writing choice. It might have been that in the past not all establishments were focused on hygiene but as far as I understood this one was well off (at least from its reputation). So there is no way this adds up.

Did I miss something or did professor Graham say this station would be were they have “hopeless cases” but 5 minutes later it’s no longer relevant? And I almost thought I could like professor Graham but then he apologizes for using common sense because EVERY sane person would have thought she would need training first. He didn’t judge based on looks he simply concluded what every person would. But instead they decide to put her on a pedestal when I’m pretty sure everyone who would have lead a life as a trained and experienced doctor and remembering everything would have accomplished the same. It’s almost like a scam at this point because everything simply things she was born this way (a genius) when we saw how hard she studied before becoming a doctor. So basically there won’t be any room for character development since she’s already perfect. The character “development” will be other characters worshiping Elise and the path she walks on. That’s great and probably every girl’s dream.

As a writer, this is honestly painful to watch. I’m all in for creative freedom but these trend of female main characters being the ultimate MVP is my personal pet peeve and it needs to be stopped please! Like they don’t even try to hide it with the title of this episode. Honestly, this entire anime seems to revolve around showing us what an amazing character Elise is, they force-feed it onto us and I kind of hate it.

It’s a shame because I really liked the concept. I thought it would be interesting if she would have to really prove herself as a doctor but also got to learn some new ropes and develop as a character along the way. But it seems like this series isn’t going this direction.

I wonder when the emperor will start to build a statue of Elise. At least we will get some interaction between the two main characters in the next episode? My guess would be to show off more of Elise being amazing while Linden gets nothing. I feel sorry for all the irrelevant male main characters nowadays. They seem more passive than every Disney princess from the past (who actually contributed to their stories). But maybe I’m wrong here and he will get his moment to shine.

@perseii I'm well aware that hygiene wasn't the main cocern (or even at all) during certain time periods. I'm just saying the way they implied and established it is beyond ridiculous. Plus as far as I know they didn't give us the time it was set (even in a fictional world). So at least explainig it was a concern. It also certainly depends on the establishment itself but the way the king made it sound and then going to the actual place just didn't make sense. So the only conclusion it was written for Elise's character. If you have to tell the audience something instead of showing or implementing it... it's not good writing. If the source material did it that's fine but at least the anime doesn't seem to care about establishing some world-building.

That's why it also feels rushed to just have to Elise do that. She didn't really prove herself. They didn't allow her character do develop this way which again isn't something I would consider good writing.

I'm the last perso who would care about being 100% accurate when it comes to medical accuracy but they should at least give us more.

Also I apologize for saying this... But I could never compare a character like Holmes to a seemingly shallow one like Elise (maybe she will become better, I don't know that). Sherlock Holmes might be a character written OP as well but he was always within boundaries. He had his flaws and there were times people pointed out when he was wrong or he had to realize it himself. I'm not saying it always went fine but he was a fleshed-out characters with many facettes and therefore more interesting. Because he wasn't a genius by default but by proofing his wits and talents. And by this he also made a lot of enemies. He wasn't well-loved by most characters (even Watson considered him as exhausting at times). So there's no way to compare those two in my opinion.

Personally if a story/book tries to force me to like a certain character (like obvious and too much) I automatically tend to not like them as much. Elise hasn't done anything bad. She seems fairly nice and I like she wants to help people. But there is no depth to her. At least not as of now. Yet they portray her as this super-woman-being.

But as far as I can see from these discussions I seem to stand alone with this :D

I guess one possible explanation is that the nurses knew that Rose was a big-shot, so they were reluctant to tell her off. That combined with her confidence in what she was saying and doing, her hardworking personality, and her charisma, ultimately clouded their judgement enough that they ended up going along with her despite her being a trainee. Basically, she was pushy and acted knowledgeable enough that they gave in and let her do what she wanted.

I agree they should have checked with Graham and doubted her more. But with Graham himself leaving her there on her own and attending to other matters elsewhere, the patient's condition being seemingly urgent, and Elise being the only one there who is confident in treating him, it might have been tough to make a call. Their options were to believe Elise that the situation is dire and rely on her, or doubt her words and potentially leave the man's situation to complicate until Graham eventually returns.

Of course, if she messed something up really badly, that would be the deciding point where everyone would dogpile on her with criticisms and the scales would fall out of their eyes that they shouldn't have went along with the nice, overenthusiastic trainee after all. Their opinions of her would fall lower than their initial bad one. But because her treatment worked and the patient had a glowing review of her treatment, along with how nice she had been toward the patients, I don't see it as a stretch that they let her take a look at their conditions and took a liking to her since she proved herself competent.

For all the other awkward things this episode, like why these patients got abandoned when Graham himself seems to know about their conditions, I'm just giving the show the benefit of doubt since I'm not a medical professional and I don't know the internal political situation of the clinic. The show definitely should have fleshed things out a lot more, but I'm not really expecting a perfect explanation and execution anymore, since my expectations in that regard have been already lowered especially after the first two episodes. I'm personally satisfied as long as the drama and writing is entertaining and decent enough for my own standards.

Like what Kujou_Kyou, an OP main character is a trope. One that is done so much and so often because there is an audience for it and it works.
I believe the trope is not a problem as long as it is written decently and is a good fit for the experience the show is aiming to offer (like for a power fantasy experience). If the story explains it well enough to make it feel not feel too unnatural and forced, if the message/experience of the story requires an overpowered main character, or if the world setting or other characters play off that overpowered-ness well, it can definitely work.

In this case, I feel like the explanation that Elise has spent maybe 20+ years (??) in the modern world and gained her 'OP ability' from working hard and gaining experience in a much more technologically advanced world works. She reincarnated an orphan as if punished for her good circumstances in her first life, so as penance for her past stupidity she chose a path in life that saves lives, achieving success in this endeavour. From Ep 1, the show sets this up to be a redemption story. Imo, this setting is good enough.
(I would have preferred if they showed her struggles in becoming the amazing surgeon she is today, but if that's not what the writer chooses to focus on, then that's fine.)

However, to me the real problems start when, like you mentioned, the show gets aggressive and force-feeds Elise's amazingness to the audience too much too quickly. And the show likes to tell you how amazing she is with exaggerated praises, instead of showing you how amazing she is with her actions.
That's why I disliked the previous two episodes, and liked this one, because she is walking her talk. I liked that the Elise portrayed in this episode was a person confronting an uncomfortable situation head-on, rather than a plot-armored protagonist gaining trust from spewing her past knowledge. I also feel that Graham had some growth as a person from meeting Elise, which makes use of Elise's OP-ness the right way, at least for now.

I think you're also talking about how the anime is basically written just for Elise, in a main character syndrome sort of way, and I agree with that part. But also, from Ep 1 this anime already low-key established itself as a wish-fulfilling fantasy type of show, and such shows often do that by default, so to me that is already par for course...

But anyway, point is I disagree that the OP main lead trend is a problem in and of itself, and I agree that the force-feeding of how amazing Elise is terrible. I hope the show does what it seems to have set out to do - show Elise redeeming her past mistakes - but with more action and less of the annoyingly redundant praises...

I'm not a medical professional, but I read that hygiene was not an important (or at least proven to be important) aspect of health care until pretty recently. This article says hand-washing practice only began in mid-1800s (in Europe at least).

Also, Elise's ward was supposed to be for "abandoned" patients, so it's possible that even less care was taken to keep it clean. Maybe that's why they did not even bother supervising the inexperienced doctor stationed there, but I admit this one is a stretch...

Come to think of it, the guy that Elise operates on is mentioned to have broken ribs. So broken ribs is a "hopeless case"...?

I'm trying to give the writers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the medical side of things, because this is technically a "fantasy" setting. But I admit the writers did a very poor job of offering even a flimsy explanation. The least they could do was just mention that no one cares about that wing of the hospital, or that it has no budget...

I could actually tolerate the "overpowered main character worshipped to high heavens" trope if the medical aspect of the show was thought-out and interesting. A lot of detective characters like Holmes are like that, and those stories can still be very entertaining.

Huh...

So it's not a written exam, but a practical exam to see if Elise can work in a hospital.

.

I guess there was no need to worry about medical terminologies, since it looks like they don't really care about that (no written things whatsoever, lol), they just care if you can work...


Without having to worry about terminologies, this is going to be a cake walk for her, LOL. (where on Earth, written exams comes before practical, it's the reverse in her OG world)


Especially when the "best doctor" doesn't recognize what Diabetes is...

(most of the words they use to describe illness are simple words, rarely any actual medical words) (plus, it seems like they're going with the Earth words = every other world's words, LOL)

.

Also, time to build that Harem, LOL... can't wait to see how many "top males" are going to be Simping Elise.

I didn't realize that I did until I read your question. Thanks for the suggestions.

I was also bitterly disappointed by Isekai Yakyoku when the main character just kept manifesting matter out of nothing and introduced evil spirits. I also agree that Apothecary Diaries turned out to be less of a medical show than expected.

Why aren't there many good (or at least popular) medical anime, I wonder? The "Medical" tag on MAL returns a pretty short list.

I know American TV has had quite a few popular medical shows (like Gray's Anatomy that you mentioned), and I've heard of several popular K-dramas in hospital settings. Is it because anime fans generally lean younger and aren't interested in doctors and medicine? It's just a shame.

@perseii watch parallel world pharmacy! It's the most accurate medical anime I've come across (minus the magic). Its super underrated but I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it already