| I finished this anime, so iam done with it. Why is the ROBOT's cannot be repaired? Like dude, they keep saying they are AIS, and as you know my dude. Programs can be copied, even a neural network can be simply copied, the memories are also intact, so COPY them. How someone supposed to feel bad for a ROBOT "DIYING" when the whole point of robots is that they can be REPAIRED. Just FIX HIM, the guy has a HOLE in his TORSO, right? FIX IT, it's not like his program has been damaged right? The whole premise of "fragile" robots is so stupid i can't take it. It would have made sense if they were Humans or cyborgs for which if the brain gets damaged then it is done. Why the ROBO dog has pulse? HOW does it make sense? Recharge it, and it would be fine again XD. I can't really this whole show is a shit show. A robo child starts to walk? WOWWW impressive, it's also said "MAMA" and "PAPA" Iam in tears. Guys i can't seriously, how is that not a joke? I omit the fact, that if an AI would ever have existed it would have been 10000000000000 times smarter than the genius that created it, so whatever, but like can we stop with the nonsense, that a robot that his head has been reaped for its body is dead? Why is it dead? WHY? just snap the head back, swap the cables. Why is a ROBO child supposed to act like some stupid kid, when it has a super powerful AI it simply stupid. They try too hard to make the robots like real humans, so much that those robots have the same weaknesses as real humans. Why? why would you even make robots that cannot be repaired? Iam just amazed that this show is not rated at lower 7, or something, it just bad. If you ignore the premise and think about all those robots as Humans, it "gets" better. But they keep shoving it up your ass all the time, so it not that easy to "see" them as humans. Also, the ending is so cliché it's all cliché, it brings nothing new. The only mercy to my brain cells watching it was the fact that i have watched an episode every few days, honestly should have quit after ep 2. I tend not to "shit post" about stuff I dislike, but like man, as someone who knows shit in AI's and programming and electronics. This just so plain stupid it's hard to ignore. Edit 2: (Changing robots into other race, would make it less obvious that humans made them etc..., so here is a better version) The whole story would have been much better if they just threw the Robots out, swap, the whole robot race to some other race (Make them Bio-Engineered Humans). Every damn scene, then can be adjusted and you don't miss a thing. Make the robot dog, to be a dog or a bio-engineered creature. They are bio-engineered right so telepathic abilities is in the realms of science fiction anyway. Or you can also make the half cyborgs like who cares. For the Villian So no, i dont thing you can have a good argument as to why the had to be ROBOTS, they didn't as it stands the Robots in PLUTO dont even fit the definition of Robots so it simply doesn't fit. (And someone said but this is based on ASTRO BOY so if not this its not worth shit, and that simply implies that this show is weak, as if not astro-boy it would have been simply below average story). Heck the Robot theme just ruined it, and there is nothing that can save it. Not sure if i would have enjoyed it if it wasn't robot themed as well since the plot was also weak for me. (Maybe it just because I couldn't care about characters as all those robots trying to hard to be humans put me off). |
Jupi-JupDec 4, 2023 4:18 AM
| this is a soft science fiction since its based on astro boy so its all about human emotions rather than hard science fiction that relies on scientific accuracy or hard logic or realism |
Reply to ktg
If someone understands the reasons behind those decisions, then it is easy to "ignore" - more like accept it - even as a software engineer, because that's what I am.
| @ktg @Yosakusan I mean, I kinda related to the field myself. And i was with the same mentality to try to "ignore" all, the nonsense with the robots, and imagine like there is some idk SOUL that can't be ressurected or something. Its still too damn hard, to get over it, the whole child robot scene for example just makes me puke, why? Why is a robot that can walk is impresive? like its some baby that takes it first steps. The anime just tries to hard to project human values and behavior on damn robots. "not to be racists", etc... Robots are cool af, and there is no reason why they should demote themselves to behave as humans on things such as this. They took a "child robot" without a hand like its some handicaped robot, and started to raise him??? just fix the damn hand. |
Reply to Sagepool
Jupi-Jup said:
I finished this anime, so iam done with it.
Why is the ROBOT's cannot be repaired? Like dude, they keep saying they are AIS, and as you know my dude.
Programs can be copied, even a neural network can be simply copied, the memories are also intact, so COPY them.
How someone supposed to feel bad for a ROBOT "DIYING" when the whole point of robots is that they can be REPAIRED.
Just FIX HIM, the guy has a HOLE in his TORSO, right? FIX IT, it's not like his program has been damaged right?
The whole premise of "fragile" robots is so stupid i can't take it.
It would have made sense if they were Humans or cyborgs for which if the brain gets damaged then it is done.
Why the ROBO dog has pulse? HOW does it make sense? Recharge it, and it would be fine again XD.
I can't really this whole show is a shit show.
A robo child starts to walk? WOWWW impressive, it's also said "MAMA" and "PAPA" Iam in tears.
Guys i can't seriously, how is that not a joke?
I omit the fact, that if an AI would ever have existed it would have been 10000000000000 times smarter than the genius that created it, so whatever, but like can we stop with the nonsense, that a robot that his head has been reaped for its body is dead?
Why is it dead? WHY? just snap the head back, swap the cables.
Why is a ROBO child supposed to act like some stupid kid, when it has a super powerful AI it simply stupid.
They try too hard to make the robots like real humans, so much that those robots have the same weaknesses as real humans.
Why? why would you even make robots that cannot be repaired?
Iam just amazed that this show is not rated at lower 7, or something, it just bad.
If you ignore the premise and think about all those robots as Humans, it "gets" better.
But they keep shoving it up your ass all the time, so it not that easy to "see" them as humans.
Also, the ending is so cliché it's all cliché, it brings nothing new.
The only mercy to my brain cells watching it was the fact that i have watched an episode every few days, honestly should have quit after ep 2.
I tend not to "shit post" about stuff I dislike, but like man, as someone who knows shit in AI's and programming and electronics.
This just so plain stupid it's hard to ignore.
I finished this anime, so iam done with it.
Why is the ROBOT's cannot be repaired? Like dude, they keep saying they are AIS, and as you know my dude.
Programs can be copied, even a neural network can be simply copied, the memories are also intact, so COPY them.
How someone supposed to feel bad for a ROBOT "DIYING" when the whole point of robots is that they can be REPAIRED.
Just FIX HIM, the guy has a HOLE in his TORSO, right? FIX IT, it's not like his program has been damaged right?
The whole premise of "fragile" robots is so stupid i can't take it.
It would have made sense if they were Humans or cyborgs for which if the brain gets damaged then it is done.
Why the ROBO dog has pulse? HOW does it make sense? Recharge it, and it would be fine again XD.
I can't really this whole show is a shit show.
A robo child starts to walk? WOWWW impressive, it's also said "MAMA" and "PAPA" Iam in tears.
Guys i can't seriously, how is that not a joke?
I omit the fact, that if an AI would ever have existed it would have been 10000000000000 times smarter than the genius that created it, so whatever, but like can we stop with the nonsense, that a robot that his head has been reaped for its body is dead?
Why is it dead? WHY? just snap the head back, swap the cables.
Why is a ROBO child supposed to act like some stupid kid, when it has a super powerful AI it simply stupid.
They try too hard to make the robots like real humans, so much that those robots have the same weaknesses as real humans.
Why? why would you even make robots that cannot be repaired?
Iam just amazed that this show is not rated at lower 7, or something, it just bad.
If you ignore the premise and think about all those robots as Humans, it "gets" better.
But they keep shoving it up your ass all the time, so it not that easy to "see" them as humans.
Also, the ending is so cliché it's all cliché, it brings nothing new.
The only mercy to my brain cells watching it was the fact that i have watched an episode every few days, honestly should have quit after ep 2.
I tend not to "shit post" about stuff I dislike, but like man, as someone who knows shit in AI's and programming and electronics.
This just so plain stupid it's hard to ignore.
The only defense I have of this is that the world probably won’t rebuild those robots since they are threatening and also their lead scientists are almost all dead. I liked the show, but with all Urasawa works, it has this like anime seriousness that tries to make you forget important things
| @Sagepool that can be said for some of them, but half of those are alive. The scene with the Dog robot, is suppose to make you sad or something, how many times has my AC car has stopped working? its not that hard to replace a battery, and why dafuk does a DOG ROBBOT have a PULSE?! The writer of this shows just made a show about humans and dogs, and then reskined everyone to be robots. This is how it was made, and it doesn't fit. The main ROBOT thing doesn't fit in the show, even tho its the CORE. |
Reply to Yosakusan
I had this same exact problem with the show, but I just chose to accept it and suspend my disbelief. If u do that the overall story and characters are solid. But yes, it doesn't make sense if u think about it. Especially the concept of robots choosing to act like humans. If I were a robot I definetly would not wanna shackle myself down to human biology and behaviour. Like, why do robots even have genders or look like kids(underdeveloped humans).
| @Yosakusan Yep robots choosing to act as humans is silly, as robots can be much better. The pardoxes i have can be explaied to me only in a simple way. The writer, initially wrote this whole story as humans vs humans, there were no robots, and the whole story still makes sense, idk just swap robots to be some race that get discriminated against. Then the whole show actually make sense, they die because they are humans, the robots that fight in this Mecha suit can still USE a MECHA suit. Just make all those damn 7-most powerfull robots, a Mecha riders. And the story actually make sense. But then at the last minute because this would also be considered controversial. (Saying some race is exploited etc...). He just sucked up his ass and changed the whole race to be robots, and TADA you got PLUTO. |
| I had a bit of a problem with this as well. The part I had getting into was that brother who was killing robot kids, and stealing their parts. Everyone treated him like some horrible human who did something unspeakable. At first, I didn't get it, but I began to understand it after a while. In this world, robots are treated with the same rights as humans. So, it would be the same if he were killing human children. Another thing to think about is sometimes you just can't fix something that breaks. While it may seem easy to fix the dog, it could be more complex than we realize. I had a phone that couldn't keep a charge anymore. I tried a few things to keep the phone charged, but in the end, I had to replace it. It could also be that certain parts aren't made anymore, and a robot can't be fixed for those reasons. It could also be hard to put them into new bodies. The robots that battled Pulto could have been so damaged that repair just wasn't an option. Making the robots into a new race of people or whatever wouldn't work. You would first have to go into a long explanation as to who they are, what makes them different from humans, and why people hate them. Robots don't need to be explained that deeply. We know what a robot is, and have our views on them. Back to the dog example, what makes this dog different? Why is the dog the same as this new species, and why can't I give him the same help I'd give to any other dog? How would I know it's different? In this world, robots have become so advanced that they can show different emotions like love and hate. Now, I agree with you that this series is complex, and would make you think in odd ways. Sometimes it's best not to overthink things. |
Reply to removed-user
…..You know this is based on Astro boy right? Throw out the robots and there is no point in the manga existing.
| @Bushmeat But do you agree that if you change the setting in this way. Humans made bio-enginired humans that work as slaves, cannot have "extreme emotions" cannot lie etc... Remove the bullshit about simulation 9 billion people as that sound stupid anyway. The main vilian was just a Clone of his former self, he was build to help him in the first place with his capabilities, and then his memories were implanted into the clone and TADA its the same shit. The mecha guys would still be Mehca guys they just sit in the suits. ( that was so stupid when you see that those mecha guyz only transfer their heads into the suits in the first place (implying that this is the only part that actually important from their bodies, but then when the body is destroyed they somehow die???). Then Robo-children are simply Bio-engnired children no problem whatsoever. And robo dogs, are some bio-dog or a new kind of animal i dont care. The robot theme is the most, unfitting element in this series. If it is the only good "part" about it, that only point that there actually nothing good about it in the first place, as the robot setting just ruins the emersion. |
Reply to animedude1287
I had a bit of a problem with this as well. The part I had getting into was that brother who was killing robot kids, and stealing their parts. Everyone treated him like some horrible human who did something unspeakable. At first, I didn't get it, but I began to understand it after a while. In this world, robots are treated with the same rights as humans. So, it would be the same if he were killing human children.
Another thing to think about is sometimes you just can't fix something that breaks. While it may seem easy to fix the dog, it could be more complex than we realize. I had a phone that couldn't keep a charge anymore. I tried a few things to keep the phone charged, but in the end, I had to replace it. It could also be that certain parts aren't made anymore, and a robot can't be fixed for those reasons. It could also be hard to put them into new bodies. The robots that battled Pulto could have been so damaged that repair just wasn't an option.
Making the robots into a new race of people or whatever wouldn't work. You would first have to go into a long explanation as to who they are, what makes them different from humans, and why people hate them. Robots don't need to be explained that deeply. We know what a robot is, and have our views on them. Back to the dog example, what makes this dog different? Why is the dog the same as this new species, and why can't I give him the same help I'd give to any other dog? How would I know it's different? In this world, robots have become so advanced that they can show different emotions like love and hate.
Now, I agree with you that this series is complex, and would make you think in odd ways. Sometimes it's best not to overthink things.
Another thing to think about is sometimes you just can't fix something that breaks. While it may seem easy to fix the dog, it could be more complex than we realize. I had a phone that couldn't keep a charge anymore. I tried a few things to keep the phone charged, but in the end, I had to replace it. It could also be that certain parts aren't made anymore, and a robot can't be fixed for those reasons. It could also be hard to put them into new bodies. The robots that battled Pulto could have been so damaged that repair just wasn't an option.
Making the robots into a new race of people or whatever wouldn't work. You would first have to go into a long explanation as to who they are, what makes them different from humans, and why people hate them. Robots don't need to be explained that deeply. We know what a robot is, and have our views on them. Back to the dog example, what makes this dog different? Why is the dog the same as this new species, and why can't I give him the same help I'd give to any other dog? How would I know it's different? In this world, robots have become so advanced that they can show different emotions like love and hate.
Now, I agree with you that this series is complex, and would make you think in odd ways. Sometimes it's best not to overthink things.
| @animedude1287 Even ur broken phone can be fixed, the charging port is dead, replace it, and it would work just find. Or take the battery out and recharge it in another way, but its just a PHONE, why would you go for that trouble. The dog was easy to fix, they said in the series that the parts that made him no longer made, etc... But so what? you can fix him later, it not like your dead phone is unfixable if you let it lay on the shelf for 50 years, it would be fixable upuntill the atoms would decay, into something else. Also there is the problem that we know what robot is, and the APOLO robots, are nothing like that. As I said, make the robots, a Human-Bio engineered versions of the. Bio-tech you can create new forms of life, and in a sense its a science fiction right now you maybe will be able to manipulate their behavior by "removing extreme emotions" for instance. It fits, even better than robots. Without all the problems that robots gave this show. |
Reply to ANR23
deg said:
this is a soft science fiction since its based on astro boy so its all about human emotions rather than hard science fiction that relies on scientific accuracy or hard logic or realism
this is a soft science fiction since its based on astro boy so its all about human emotions rather than hard science fiction that relies on scientific accuracy or hard logic or realism
Typical shounen fan boys who think SAO is a masterpiece 😂😂
Totally missing the points. I hope it’s not a bait post but god help this child ❤️. May he expand his thought and understanding power.
| @ANR23 What? at least look at my profile, then comment. Where did you see masterpiece SAO? My critique makes sense, i don't think the Robot theme fits. Its forced, and ruins everything. I don't know how much i would have enjoyed this show even if it wasn't robot themed, because the whole "hatred" bullshit, is so cliche. That its hard to praise it for anything new that it has bring to the table. The whole point was probably to feel compaction for the character to care for them and then be sad about how they "die". But the whole Robot theme just ruined it, you can't feel "connected" to a character, that has a hole in his torso, when you seen that Hercules. Can reattach his head, to a mecha suit, and live just fine, so maybe re attach his head to a new body? just maybe? |
Reply to ANR23
This thread is a bit of a pain. Well…
The dog pulse is quite easy to explain.
It’s showing the amps of the current flowing through the dog and not his actual pulse. Yes it should have sinusoidal in nature but for dramatic effect and uninitiated audiences, it shows like that.
About why can’t rebuild robots, if you understand any bit of geo economics (not really a term but you understand) they are absolutely fucking expensive. Each one of them is like 50 nukes equivalent. Of course hard to rebuild.
And then, this thread seems to have entirely missed the point of the show.
The show underlying theme is really about what makes a human, human.
The emotions you feel, the feelings you have, the behaviour you exhibit towards that.
These are some traits that truly separate us from rest animal kingdom right?
This show makes an attempt to reflect that if something else somehow manages to have this trait, what will our reaction be?
Can something actually evolve to have these complex chemical reactions that have taken eons to develop in us.
Then this show shows how advanced robots like atom’s sister is more humane than any other human. That begs the question, are we actually just in how we act? Are we actually human anymore?
They are trying to make robots as human as possible first to get rid of the ill treatment and prejudice that you have mentioned in your post and also study the exact phenomenon I mentioned above.
It’s so blatantly obvious that the robots have PTSD after the war after killing their own brethren, whereas we humans who have waged war for so many years are so indifferent to it. Therein is the problem that the show starts to highlight. Are the robots more human than us humans? The show is supposed to make you think about it instead of serving it on a plate.
They use murder as such a good device to explain the difference in human behaviour and robot behaviour. It’s so smart.
The show might not be perfect, but it more than delivers all the messages it tries to do.
It’s not a shounen fight show? Do some background study before watching shows with sensitive and high iq stuff instead of bullshitting on it.
Might not be up your alley. Not everyone watches a show for philosophy. You are here for fun and don’t want to run your mind to understand the untold stuff.
All peace. Please don’t unnecessarily review bomb good shows. We have plenty ass fans already.
Of course someone out there must have a much better understanding and explanation of the show. Maybe check that out too.
Hope this has helped. ❤️
The dog pulse is quite easy to explain.
It’s showing the amps of the current flowing through the dog and not his actual pulse. Yes it should have sinusoidal in nature but for dramatic effect and uninitiated audiences, it shows like that.
About why can’t rebuild robots, if you understand any bit of geo economics (not really a term but you understand) they are absolutely fucking expensive. Each one of them is like 50 nukes equivalent. Of course hard to rebuild.
And then, this thread seems to have entirely missed the point of the show.
The show underlying theme is really about what makes a human, human.
The emotions you feel, the feelings you have, the behaviour you exhibit towards that.
These are some traits that truly separate us from rest animal kingdom right?
This show makes an attempt to reflect that if something else somehow manages to have this trait, what will our reaction be?
Can something actually evolve to have these complex chemical reactions that have taken eons to develop in us.
Then this show shows how advanced robots like atom’s sister is more humane than any other human. That begs the question, are we actually just in how we act? Are we actually human anymore?
They are trying to make robots as human as possible first to get rid of the ill treatment and prejudice that you have mentioned in your post and also study the exact phenomenon I mentioned above.
It’s so blatantly obvious that the robots have PTSD after the war after killing their own brethren, whereas we humans who have waged war for so many years are so indifferent to it. Therein is the problem that the show starts to highlight. Are the robots more human than us humans? The show is supposed to make you think about it instead of serving it on a plate.
They use murder as such a good device to explain the difference in human behaviour and robot behaviour. It’s so smart.
The show might not be perfect, but it more than delivers all the messages it tries to do.
It’s not a shounen fight show? Do some background study before watching shows with sensitive and high iq stuff instead of bullshitting on it.
Might not be up your alley. Not everyone watches a show for philosophy. You are here for fun and don’t want to run your mind to understand the untold stuff.
All peace. Please don’t unnecessarily review bomb good shows. We have plenty ass fans already.
Of course someone out there must have a much better understanding and explanation of the show. Maybe check that out too.
Hope this has helped. ❤️
| @ANR23 I didn't miss the point, of the show, it just so hard to be invested in the emotional side of the show when its executed so damn bad. Even if it's expensive to rebuild a robot, doesn't explain shit, they made them once, they can remade them twice. If i would have been able to take a snapshot of your entire brain, and upload it to a computer, you can argue i would have a clone fo you. In humans maybe its impossible, as we don't really understand how a brain works. But alas, a robot is a robot, you can take a snapshot of everything happening inside of him unlike of humans (at least in today day and age). So you can resurrect them in a new body, that's the point, you don't even need to make the same body. I doubt there are a lot of humans on earth that wouldn't like a way to bring their loved once back to life, even if there is a chance its not the same person. So a Beloved by everyone robot surely should be rebuild even if it costs a fortune. And what? humans dont have PTSDS from wars? are you kidding me? Humans have them, and a lot of them are incapable to do shit for a lifetime, heck those robots seem fine to me. The only difference is that Humans DIE of old age, so our ancestors that did have PTSD from WW2, has been long gone, and the new generation doesn't know the horrors of War. Its not because we FORGET, we never even knew what it is like, hearing a story and living it is too damn different, it doesn't make them anymore humans than humans. Heck Humans are in a sense are an ugly species, so the first ROBOT killing someone when he got emotions is the only thing that was fine, because yeah if a Robot would have behaved like a human there is a big chance it would have destroyed us all. That one of the reasons why AI-Aligment problem is so huge, because you DONT want HUMAN LIKE AI's, its fucking dangerous, there are a lot of nasty humans that if you gave them too much power, we would have to pray to god to save us. Now imagine an AI, (and unlike the one in PLUTO, any AI capable of mimicing humans like Gesicht would be x999999 smarter then all of the humans on earth combined), so he would be able to destroy everyone on earth before we would even realize he even meant to do so. The main Issue is the robot theme Remove the robot theme, swap robots for Bio-engineered humans or a fictional Race with intellectual capabilities, and you have the same story without the inconsistency that those damn "super robots" are as useless as any human on earth. |
Reply to ktg
@Jupi-Jup It's not soul. What you need to understand is that the technology in this sci-fi was imagined as you can't copy or simply mass produce. The same way, irl, you can't buy 2 things and expect them to be 100% the same. Maybe you can't see with your naked eyes that 2 phones are different, but they are small differences. So, in Pluto, you can't simply copy stuff and expect them to be the same. While there are things you can replace, like when Ochamizu wanted to repair the dog, first he tried to find compatible components, but it was too old.
Because for the robots that was the "end goal". In that society, even if a robot could live 100 years, they will be still robots. From a robot POV, a human is more than that. In the series they mentioned several times that the greatest sin for a robot is to kill a human. So from that perspective, a human worth more. That's why robots want to be humans.
Because that's what matters to robots and robots are created by humans.
Yes, but killing robots are not that great sin compared to killing humans. And every robot can understand this. So even if they are smarter, live longer, it's like they worth less.
If it's too old, they can't. As you could see with the robot dog.
If you have a code in assembly, you can't just simply add another line or 2 in java. That's not how technology works.
Go into a museum, look for the oldest car there and try to find spare parts to that car on a car shop. You won't. You failed to understand that they are things that we don't produce anymore and it's not even sci-fi element, it's the reality.
It does. Everything works perfectly fine if you understand the rules.
Jupi-Jup said:
Why is a robot that can walk is impresive? like its some baby that takes it first steps.
Why is a robot that can walk is impresive? like its some baby that takes it first steps.
Because for the robots that was the "end goal". In that society, even if a robot could live 100 years, they will be still robots. From a robot POV, a human is more than that. In the series they mentioned several times that the greatest sin for a robot is to kill a human. So from that perspective, a human worth more. That's why robots want to be humans.
Jupi-Jup said:
The anime just tries to hard to project human values and behavior on damn robots.
The anime just tries to hard to project human values and behavior on damn robots.
Because that's what matters to robots and robots are created by humans.
Jupi-Jup said:
Robots are cool af, and there is no reason why they should demote themselves to behave as humans on things such as this.
Robots are cool af, and there is no reason why they should demote themselves to behave as humans on things such as this.
Yes, but killing robots are not that great sin compared to killing humans. And every robot can understand this. So even if they are smarter, live longer, it's like they worth less.
Jupi-Jup said:
They took a "child robot" without a hand like its some handicaped robot, and started to raise him???
just fix the damn hand.
They took a "child robot" without a hand like its some handicaped robot, and started to raise him???
just fix the damn hand.
If it's too old, they can't. As you could see with the robot dog.
If you have a code in assembly, you can't just simply add another line or 2 in java. That's not how technology works.
Jupi-Jup said:
The scene with the Dog robot, is suppose to make you sad or something, how many times has my AC car has stopped working? its not that hard to replace a battery, and why dafuk does a DOG ROBBOT have a PULSE?!
The scene with the Dog robot, is suppose to make you sad or something, how many times has my AC car has stopped working? its not that hard to replace a battery, and why dafuk does a DOG ROBBOT have a PULSE?!
Go into a museum, look for the oldest car there and try to find spare parts to that car on a car shop. You won't. You failed to understand that they are things that we don't produce anymore and it's not even sci-fi element, it's the reality.
Jupi-Jup said:
The main ROBOT thing doesn't fit in the show, even tho its the CORE.
The main ROBOT thing doesn't fit in the show, even tho its the CORE.
It does. Everything works perfectly fine if you understand the rules.
| @ktg This whole point is just nonsense. In the real world if you would have been able to "fix" a dead person by bringing him back to life, even if he was not 100% the same, i would like you to find a lot of people that would have said "no thanks" i dont want a "wanna be my son". Even tho this "fixed" version would be exactly the same you would not tell the difference and on philosophical point you don't really know if its the same one, maybe after "fixing" him his real soul gets back to the new body? how would you even know that this is not the same one. Let's move on, the whole idea that Robots are worse than humans are just such a BS, and it just hard to take it seriously. If the too old the can't? what? why? Anything that made of electronics can be fixed, that dog was fixable, change some parts copy their content and you are done. Maybe you dont have the part right? so find new parts, you dont need to fix electronicts like humans THEY CANT DIE, if the electricity is gone, it would work after 1000 years just fine if you plug it in. You dead phone from a year ago, would be fixable even after 500 years unless you put it in a meat grinder. The ROBOT theme doesn't fit. Swap them for Bio engineered humans, now tell my how is that not better? 1. Now when a meat and flesh Bio-Human dies, clearly like any living organism it would die, you can't fix him. 2. You made them in a lab, so they are clearly non-human and you can even use them as Organ donors so they are just tools to be used (Here is the descrimination pace, why they are less then humans). 3. You made them, so you manipulated the DNA so in a sense it might be possible to remove extreme emotions from Bio-Humans. 4. Maybe its even possible to insert a DNA that prevents them from harming humans, don't know how but like science fiction right? 5. Robo children are simply Bio-Humans, now they fit the story perfectly. We can always say that Bio-Humans can't replicate even some animals cant reproduce in nature, so its not far fetched. 6. You can have mecha suits so those Bio-Humans are also Mecha fighters that are very good at combat, now it make sense why they are the 7 most powerfull. 7. They can be made way more smarter with the right genes, so the lil-kid robot still can be very smart, also lets say they have a way to use telepachy so now they still can share memories like they did. Nothing is missed, heck i dont see how is that doesn't fit the story much better. The whole Robot theme is forced so hard it just bad. |
Reply to ANR23
deg said:
this is a soft science fiction since its based on astro boy so its all about human emotions rather than hard science fiction that relies on scientific accuracy or hard logic or realism
this is a soft science fiction since its based on astro boy so its all about human emotions rather than hard science fiction that relies on scientific accuracy or hard logic or realism
Typical shounen fan boys who think SAO is a masterpiece 😂😂
Totally missing the points. I hope it’s not a bait post but god help this child ❤️. May he expand his thought and understanding power.
| @ANR23 are you against my comment? im confuse lol |
>this is a soft science fiction since its based on astro boy so its all about human emotions rather than hard science fiction that relies on scientific accuracy or hard logic or realism |
Reply to ANR23
Jupi-Jup said:
@ANR23
I didn't miss the point, of the show, it just so hard to be invested in the emotional side of the show when its executed so damn bad.
Even if it's expensive to rebuild a robot, doesn't explain shit, they made them once, they can remade them twice.
If i would have been able to take a snapshot of your entire brain, and upload it to a computer, you can argue i would have a clone fo you.
In humans maybe its impossible, as we don't really understand how a brain works.
But alas, a robot is a robot, you can take a snapshot of everything happening inside of him unlike of humans (at least in today day and age).
So you can resurrect them in a new body, that's the point, you don't even need to make the same body.
I doubt there are a lot of humans on earth that wouldn't like a way to bring their loved once back to life, even if there is a chance its not the same person.
So a Beloved by everyone robot surely should be rebuild even if it costs a fortune.
And what? humans dont have PTSDS from wars? are you kidding me?
Humans have them, and a lot of them are incapable to do shit for a lifetime, heck those robots seem fine to me.
The only difference is that Humans DIE of old age, so our ancestors that did have PTSD from WW2, has been long gone, and the new generation doesn't know the horrors of War.
Its not because we FORGET, we never even knew what it is like, hearing a story and living it is too damn different, it doesn't make them anymore humans than humans.
Heck Humans are in a sense are an ugly species, so the first ROBOT killing someone when he got emotions is the only thing that was fine, because yeah if a Robot would have behaved like a human there is a big chance it would have destroyed us all.
That one of the reasons why AI-Aligment problem is so huge, because you DONT want HUMAN LIKE AI's, its fucking dangerous, there are a lot of nasty humans that if you gave them too much power, we would have to pray to god to save us.
Now imagine an AI, (and unlike the one in PLUTO, any AI capable of mimicing humans like Gesicht would be x999999 smarter then all of the humans on earth combined), so he would be able to destroy everyone on earth before we would even realize he even meant to do so.
The main Issue is the robot theme
Remove the robot theme, swap robots for Bio-engineered humans or a fictional Race with intellectual capabilities, and you have the same story without the inconsistency that those damn "super robots" are as useless as any human on earth.
@ANR23
I didn't miss the point, of the show, it just so hard to be invested in the emotional side of the show when its executed so damn bad.
Even if it's expensive to rebuild a robot, doesn't explain shit, they made them once, they can remade them twice.
If i would have been able to take a snapshot of your entire brain, and upload it to a computer, you can argue i would have a clone fo you.
In humans maybe its impossible, as we don't really understand how a brain works.
But alas, a robot is a robot, you can take a snapshot of everything happening inside of him unlike of humans (at least in today day and age).
So you can resurrect them in a new body, that's the point, you don't even need to make the same body.
I doubt there are a lot of humans on earth that wouldn't like a way to bring their loved once back to life, even if there is a chance its not the same person.
So a Beloved by everyone robot surely should be rebuild even if it costs a fortune.
And what? humans dont have PTSDS from wars? are you kidding me?
Humans have them, and a lot of them are incapable to do shit for a lifetime, heck those robots seem fine to me.
The only difference is that Humans DIE of old age, so our ancestors that did have PTSD from WW2, has been long gone, and the new generation doesn't know the horrors of War.
Its not because we FORGET, we never even knew what it is like, hearing a story and living it is too damn different, it doesn't make them anymore humans than humans.
Heck Humans are in a sense are an ugly species, so the first ROBOT killing someone when he got emotions is the only thing that was fine, because yeah if a Robot would have behaved like a human there is a big chance it would have destroyed us all.
That one of the reasons why AI-Aligment problem is so huge, because you DONT want HUMAN LIKE AI's, its fucking dangerous, there are a lot of nasty humans that if you gave them too much power, we would have to pray to god to save us.
Now imagine an AI, (and unlike the one in PLUTO, any AI capable of mimicing humans like Gesicht would be x999999 smarter then all of the humans on earth combined), so he would be able to destroy everyone on earth before we would even realize he even meant to do so.
The main Issue is the robot theme
Remove the robot theme, swap robots for Bio-engineered humans or a fictional Race with intellectual capabilities, and you have the same story without the inconsistency that those damn "super robots" are as useless as any human on earth.
I just can’t agree to it man. Dying is an important virtue.
I just cannot comprehend it. I am sure no human would want to live on after having lived a nice long life. The sense of contentment that a full life lived well gives is gone. Life has totally lost his value.
And the people you say would bring their lives ones back by any means is just cruel, insensitive and selfish beyond belief.
I don’t understand your problem with robots. “Bio engineered humans”, “Cyborgs” same as robots man.
Don’t you think Gesicht and Atom and Mont blanc are basically bio engineered men at this point?
The plot hole/inconsistency you keep referring to just, I don’t get it.
And No they can’t build another one of them. Please do the match.
And copying mental data and printing it in another device!? Is exactly the reason why they have robot laws to stop stuff like that from happening?
Imagine someone did that you? You won’t be the same right? That’s basically murder.
Can’t connect to a person with hole in torso.😭
Talk to Rengoku and Ace fans.
I just don’t understand what you mean by that.
You do understand humans are a nasty species perfect.
But then when you gesicht, atom and his sister you see more humanity than let’s say the president or Europol director etc.
Show’s message clearly delivered voila.
| @ANR23 What? no human would want to live after a long a happy life? I mean sure there are people that think that way probably you, but i for instance would prefer to live infinite long and happy life. So death is just a curse, there is no reason why its the virtue of life, its the virtue of death. how bringing someone back to life is cruel? For instance they died in a car crash, after having a wedding a day before?? Sure if the man committed seppuku then sure, maybe dont bring him back to life. Or if the man died out of age, and Asked not to be. I do now realize that our world view is like 180 reverse of each other, it fine honestly. But i find death to be a curse, rather then anything important for life. And no bio enginired humans are nothing like robots. Some people wish to be imortal and one way to achive it is by uploading your mind to a computer and becoming a ROBOT. So Robots are inerintly immortal. Saying dont fix robots, is the same as saying dont treat injured humans like wat? Is it cruel to treat them? You do realize that a Robot like any machine can't possible die? It dies only if all its Data program and everything about it is lost. Most of those Robots were perfectly fine, reattach some wires and he would be fine. For a machine being offline for 5 hours or 5 years is the same as for you to fal asleep. When you unplug your computer out of the wall it wont magically "die", the next time you connect it it would be just the same computer. Your whole argument doesn't make sense, its like your definition of robots is flawed. ROBOT: Are machines that have some kind of program that runs that make sense of the environment, and he can do some tasks. If the machine is very sophisticated , it will be able to do complex stuff like mimicking humans. Ai - Artificial intelegince, is also a PROGRAM, that runs on a hardware, and does the same thing except it doesn't even need a body, the program itself is what matters connect it to whatever, and it will be the same that is maybe some distinct things would happen. The robot setting flawed because a machine simply can't die. |
Reply to Yosakusan
I had this same exact problem with the show, but I just chose to accept it and suspend my disbelief. If u do that the overall story and characters are solid. But yes, it doesn't make sense if u think about it. Especially the concept of robots choosing to act like humans. If I were a robot I definetly would not wanna shackle myself down to human biology and behaviour. Like, why do robots even have genders or look like kids(underdeveloped humans).
| @Yosakusan I can do that most of the time but there is a limit |
Reply to EnVaH
also we literally have a scene to show that you can't just repair them. the dog which was super old but couldn't be fixed with the latest technology and one of the smartest people.
| @Jupi-Jup I replied to your post in other thread but yeah the story does not age well with current age. Essence of the story is robots are like human, can cry, can be kind, can have hatred, can have and grow their own personality. It works for 10 year-old kid story(AstroBoy) but it doesn't really work for seinen story. @EnVaH Funny you mentioned that when Pluto has been repaired over and over lol. Ochanomizu just lacked the robot component, even smartest person can do nothing without the parts. |
Reply to EnVaH
brains are biological machines, and yet even if we were able to create a brain, copying it would be 1000 times harder. why should it be any easier for AIs? we don't know about the technology used to develop these AIs, binary calculations might not be the heart of it and even if it was, being able to copy the consciousness would be debatable and uncertain.
| @EnVaH Copying a human brain would be hard if you made a mechanical brain because its not 1 to 1 copy, it needs to be interpreted somehow. A machinical brain can be copied 1 to 1, if you mass produce those brains, you just have to then set the same configuration. Sure if the brain is damaged and you never seen its configurations then its all but lost, but since you can make a "cloud" save like your phone does for whatsupp you can take a snapshot of the brain. Thus you can restore the brain to the point it was at that time. Honestly if we could have taken a snapshot of a human brain i.e one that measures everything from where each atom is etc... Then we also would have been able to repair a human brain (assuming we can manipulate matter). Anyway unless robots don't have a weird component to them like some anti-matter or idk a Randomness particle that i just made up, that makes some oddly weird "bugs" in the machine and this is the actual "Conciseness"" then there should be nothing that stops you from "reviving a robot". And it would be identical, you wont be able to tell a difference, and not only that the robot would probably too wont know. (i.e it can probably deduce that it has memories missing or something, since the time has changed but it doesn't have memories in between, but that's about it). About the dog stuff, it was weird that they try to save the dog while monitoring its pulse, as i said, a robot can go offline even for a millennia, and it won't really die. So, like the old dog, can be repaired at any point in time. If they added a thing that says that every robot has some "Dark matter" shit in their head, that somehow goes "puff" the moment they are without power, and without it the robot can't be restored, i,e it somehow connected to its memories and personality and stuff, then this whole setup is stupid. But if we assume they can die permanently, its still a very strange idea to have robot children and robots that try to mimic humans to the point of stupidness. Why? what's the point? We can all agree that Robots would be far superior in every shape and form to humans, if they had the same capabilities as this detective robot and so on... |
| I get where you are coming from. Although I admire the man, Urasawa often over-emotionalizes stuff in his manga, to the point it is cringy. Pluto is even more problematic, since it shows the author's lack of understanding in robotics, electronics, and software engineering. But, there is an answer to everything if you are willing to accept it. I am a software engineer myself, and I definitely know more about these stuff than Urasawa. But maybe it is not about robotics, electronics, and software. Maybe Urasawa is more correct than any of us. First of all, we have to accept that we don't know anything about the technicalities of a future as shown in Pluto. At the current state of our world, we don't have an autonomous agent capable of doing 0.1% of things Gesicht can do. We don't even have an idea of how existing AI agents (LLMs) work. And this is in consistence with the show. For example, Tenma created Atom but he can't control it and doesn't know what it will do. There is a saying, "Robots (AI) are not built, they are grown". I don't know if I heard this somewhere, or I just came up with it. This saying is true in the current world, and it will probably be true in the future. Because think about it. Human body only works by trillions of cells, proteins, bacteria, and other miniscule stuff working together. I don't think it can be engineered. So somehow you have to first build a basic mechanism, and then an algorithm to grow it. If you build a robot like that, its body shape, material, appearance, circuitry, software, and other factors will affect how the AI is developed. And this creates the uniqueness (personality) of robots. For example, a kid robot will receive more sympathy from humans, and will become more sympathetic. But why does Gesicht have to die when he has a hole in his chest? Well, a human would die. A mammoth or a crow would too. Why do we have a chance to die when we lose the integrity of our body? Because we are evolved like that. And maybe the robots are evolved like that too. About why they can't transfer Gesicht to another body, I will answer with an analogy. Think about it as RAM (subconscious) and HDD (memory). You can transfer the data in HDD, but the data is gone once power to the RAM is gone. But it may not be that simple. Like the human brain, the robot brain could be so hardwired to its body, it may be impossible to separate the two. Some other stuff like: - Robots can't lie - Robots can't kill a human - Robots eating and drinking - Robots crying - In general, robots trying to be like humans - Simulating 9 billion human personalities All have the same answer. To be any useful to humanity, and to be sympathetic, robots probably must be trained on real human personalities (similar to how we train LLMs on real human text). Their algorithm is probably wired to guide them to be as similar to humans as possible. |
OonokamiJan 27, 2024 4:48 PM
 |
| Bruh you hit the nail on the head |
 |
| I don't think pluto's sci-fi, or science part in particular was good. you're right.... but also, does it really matter? Like I never went into this expecting hard sci-fi, it doesn't even bother getting into the details of how the things you complained about are logical. it just expects you to take the world of the show as it is. It doesn't really have to be logical, it just needs to be consistent to it's own rules. Like, why would it being as accurate as possible matter? If the show came up with reasons that addressed your complaints, what would be added to the story? The story is an emotional mystery, with themes about hatred, it being a bit more scientifically accurate would literally not matter. To me, complaining about this, isn't that different from someone questing the mech structure in your average mecha anime, like, sure, I guess it's a complaint. but it barely affect the show, cause it was never the focus to begin with. also, on a side note. Maybe I'm not remembering it right, but wasn't vivy, which is in your favourite the exact same? The robots in that one died too, and their death was treated as such. no one brought up copying your brain there, and the technology in vivy was even more futuristic than pluto. and on top of that, the AI in that one where a little less human like, at least most of them, which would also make them copying their brain easier. How come you didn't have an issue with it there? |
APolygons2Feb 11, 2024 7:21 AM
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Reply to ThreeTrap
I just can't decide whether I love how it was able to suspend my disbelieve for the first two EPs. Or whether I find it dumb that robots who do have clearly risky jobs don't perform backups of any kind - meanwhile they can "just" share the memory stick and get a literal 1:1 experience of their memories (because the story needed some way to progress).
I can understand why robots are trying to become human - after all that's the majority of the "things" living with them, and their creators are human too - so they might even be programmed to try this. Also if you're truly sentient enough to be self aware, it would probably be very boring to just exist and have no feelings. The show is definitely able to push all the right buttons to make you cry.
For what its worth I just found the production values to flip-flop so hard. And this "big mystery" of the big storm that kills things. Even though obviously it isn't a storm or a lighting that is actually attacking, so this is just for show - to make you feel like it's deeper than it truly is. And this is what annoys me so much.
Also can we please talk about this weird broken robot, living in some basement, pinned to a wall because "no one could kill it out of fear" ?! Makes no sense. If they truly fear robots killing humans, they would detach the brain of that "monster" for studies and then kill it. Instead of leaving it half-alive in some basement with control over the body, while it obviously is still completely active in the cyberspace.
I think series like Psycho Pass or Ghost in the shell explored various aspects of this much, much better. This show probably would've been a hit 10 to 20 years ago.
I can understand why robots are trying to become human - after all that's the majority of the "things" living with them, and their creators are human too - so they might even be programmed to try this. Also if you're truly sentient enough to be self aware, it would probably be very boring to just exist and have no feelings. The show is definitely able to push all the right buttons to make you cry.
For what its worth I just found the production values to flip-flop so hard. And this "big mystery" of the big storm that kills things. Even though obviously it isn't a storm or a lighting that is actually attacking, so this is just for show - to make you feel like it's deeper than it truly is. And this is what annoys me so much.
Also can we please talk about this weird broken robot, living in some basement, pinned to a wall because "no one could kill it out of fear" ?! Makes no sense. If they truly fear robots killing humans, they would detach the brain of that "monster" for studies and then kill it. Instead of leaving it half-alive in some basement with control over the body, while it obviously is still completely active in the cyberspace.
I think series like Psycho Pass or Ghost in the shell explored various aspects of this much, much better. This show probably would've been a hit 10 to 20 years ago.
ThreeTrap said: meanwhile they can "just" share the memory stick and get a literal 1:1 experience of their memories (because the story needed some way to progress) I think the robots here are human enough that it wouldn't work. Think about it like this. If I gave all of your memories to a dummy, and made it alive, would that dummy be the exact copy as you? I think one could make a hard case of the answer being no. Based on the visuals we got when tenma was working on atom, the robot's brain here aren't too different from one of a human. so even with a 1-1 memory transfer, it wouldn't necessarily be the same person. |
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| I will use this to rant a bit, sorry about that and feel free to ignore. I was actually mad at the end of this... I was so close to dropping this on ep.2 but I was baited by the score thinking that surely there would be a massive payoff only to watch one of the most bland and safe endings that I can remember in this type of story. All of this nonsense force-fed pity, snoozefest side-stories for the silly robot (that you know will die at the end of the episode) for a "hatred bad mkay?" 8h long boring tournament arc. This was released on Netflix, home to black mirror and countless mass-produced Korean dramas that manage to do the "psychological mystery sci-fi" so much better in less time, just throw a dart at the wall and you will probably be better served. |
| . |
| you are right but majority of people prefer mediocre writing and cliche endings that make no sense, but the animation was good so it's ok. My advice is just forget that this shit ever existed |
    |
| Because Pluto doesn't have bunch of copy-pasted waifus like that Vivy in your favourite? I don't even remember the robots got cloned there after being destroyed, lol |
Help! I need somebody. Help! Not just anybody. Help! You know I need someone. Helpppppp!  |
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