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Vell- said: 05:34 the gun is very clearly nowhere to be seen, and could not possibly be hidden under her shirt like that. Same goes for the 2 next shots in the scene where she is in the background, no gun anywhere. And then all of a sudden 05:51 Is this episode meant to confirm to me that the gun really just spawns magically or is this incompetence, I genuinely cant tell anymore. In manga is shown in the holser on the right leg. They don t even seem to care at this point. They got little backlash last time because was something nickpicky but they didn t even bothered adding it now...literally was just reused material unfortunately. The manga also has lots of differences from what I understood and maybe Passione is just f*cking around the script for the sake of resource management but I can only assume. |
Ushiromiya Battler, right now, on this island, no one exists except for you. You're the only one alive in this island. However I'm here right now, and i'm about to kill you. Who... am I? |
Nerdgirltori said: Eua mentions that “Vier lost her memories”. According to the expansion, Vier is more akin to Mio and Lamdadelta. She has striking similarities to Mio Takano as well. So that begs the question; if Satoko is Vier without her memories, what is the connection between Mio and Satoko? Theres no real point thinking about it. Its way too early in Ciconia to come to any conclusion. But If I were to guess. Now what I assume is that. This refers to Miyo Takano. Who is Vier (kinda hard to doubt, and is reasonable) and that she is Lambda. Satoko is just Ryu putting anred herring. A while ago. I put together a post on why Satoko wasnt Lambda. Now what about Gou? Lambda left. Leaving Takano with no certainty, which is why she doubts her resolve to carry out GHD. Thus Lambda has no idea how Higu ends. Tying up what she said in Umineko. |
Manu_0 said: vegeta8639 said: LOOOOL the exact same cliffhanger from months ago. Seriously fuck this show. Literally these entire 13 episodes and the last couple from Gou could be cut out without losing much of anything. Thinking about it this has to be some of the laziest writing I have ever seen. Hey how do we force the plot to continue now that it's over? Fuck it, lets just have an invincible god show up out of nowhere and torture all the characters for her amusement. Why the fuck not. This is dumpster tier writing even for fanfictions. I'm just glad there's only 2 more episodes and then it should hopefully be over. I strongly encourage everyone to just play the console arcs if you want more Higurashi as they are infinitely better than this shit. Not gonna lie SotsuGou really feels like a bad fanfiction, there's just so many things that either contradict the OG series or simply don't make any sense, and they are there just to move the plot forward. It feels like it was written by someone who knows almost nothing about Higurashi, and yet Ryukishi wrote the script and the staff is very knowledgeable about the series, like seriously what the fuck are they doing? I'm guessing Ryukishi is either playing 4D chess in his head and thinks he's creating some multi layered masterpiece that ties together with Umineko and Ciconia even though it looks like a giant turd to us. Or alternatively this is a lazy cash grab and they're throwing random shit at the wall that they think fans will find cool and hoping something sticks. Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Satoko was also a looper and went full yandere for Rika? Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Keiichi actually let Rena into his house but she killed him? Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Mion got affected by Hinamizawa syndrome and went crazy trying to protect Keiichi? Hey, wouldn't be it be cool if another god showed up that's more powerful than Hanyuu and started fucking things up? I can imagine those types of conversations went on in their planning room. |
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Emillian said: Vell- said: 05:34 the gun is very clearly nowhere to be seen, and could not possibly be hidden under her shirt like that. Same goes for the 2 next shots in the scene where she is in the background, no gun anywhere. And then all of a sudden 05:51 Is this episode meant to confirm to me that the gun really just spawns magically or is this incompetence, I genuinely cant tell anymore. In manga is shown in the holser on the right leg. They don t even seem to care at this point. They got little backlash last time because was something nickpicky but they didn t even bothered adding it now...literally was just reused material unfortunately. The manga also has lots of differences from what I understood and maybe Passione is just f*cking around the script for the sake of resource management but I can only assume. The manga also has a ton of relevant information missing, some of which relatively important to the plot (the sword plot, Hanyuu enabling Rika to remember who kill her, the redeemed Takano plot that shows she had nothing to do with it). They still had Rika unexplainedly remembering and assuming Akasaka stabbed her to death. The manga covers an arc per tankobon, except the festival massacre in Tataridamashi, so maybe that's why many things in there are missing and modified despite similar story beats. Nekodamashi likewise just got covered in a single tankobon including the Tatari finale (similar to nekodamashi ep1 in the anime). The both of them likely deviate from the original memetic long script a fair bit for their mediums, even because the manga has first person narration from K1, and not just Rika in Neko (both manga and anime). |
DanpmssSep 16, 2021 11:03 AM
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| Oh finally, we reached this point. Took so many episodes lmao. |
Danpmss said: Emillian said: In manga is shown in the holser on the right leg. They don t even seem to care at this point. They got little backlash last time because was something nickpicky but they didn t even bothered adding it now...literally was just reused material unfortunately. The manga also has lots of differences from what I understood and maybe Passione is just f*cking around the script for the sake of resource management but I can only assume. The manga also has a ton of relevant information missing, some of which relatively important to the plot (the sword plot, Hanyuu enabling Rika to remember who kill her, the redeemed Takano plot that shows she had nothing to do with it). They still had Rika unexplainedly remembering and assuming Akasaka stabbed her to death. The manga covers an arc per tankobon, except the festival masacre in Tataridamashi, so maybe that's why many things in there are missing and modified despite similar story beats. Nekodamashi likewise just got covered in a single tankobon including the Tatari finale (similar to nekodamashi ep1 in the anime). The both of them likely deviate from the script a fair bit, even because the manga has first person narration from K1, and not just Rika in Neko (both manga and anime). Im definitely reading it after the show ends. I will never forgive Passione if very important details were "destroyed" just for the sake of runtime and budget. But still is a big miracle I still have hope the ending will be at least good/decent. Just 2....just 2 more... |
Ushiromiya Battler, right now, on this island, no one exists except for you. You're the only one alive in this island. However I'm here right now, and i'm about to kill you. Who... am I? |
Emillian said: Danpmss said: The manga also has a ton of relevant information missing, some of which relatively important to the plot (the sword plot, Hanyuu enabling Rika to remember who kill her, the redeemed Takano plot that shows she had nothing to do with it). They still had Rika unexplainedly remembering and assuming Akasaka stabbed her to death. The manga covers an arc per tankobon, except the festival masacre in Tataridamashi, so maybe that's why many things in there are missing and modified despite similar story beats. Nekodamashi likewise just got covered in a single tankobon including the Tatari finale (similar to nekodamashi ep1 in the anime). The both of them likely deviate from the script a fair bit, even because the manga has first person narration from K1, and not just Rika in Neko (both manga and anime). Im definitely reading it after the show ends. I will never forgive Passione if very important details were "destroyed" just for the sake of runtime and budget. But still is a big miracle I still have hope the ending will be at least good/decent. Just 2....just 2 more... Eh, I think that's more possible to have happened in the manga honestly. The anime despite the horror-b bloody glory, definitely has much more to it than what the manga did differently here and there. Onidamashi and Watadamashi were arguably better than the anime counterparts though. The survivability of K1 in particular for Onidamashi. |
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Danpmss said: Emillian said: Im definitely reading it after the show ends. I will never forgive Passione if very important details were "destroyed" just for the sake of runtime and budget. But still is a big miracle I still have hope the ending will be at least good/decent. Just 2....just 2 more... Eh, I think that's more possible to have happened in the manga honestly. The anime despite the horror-b bloody glory, definitely has much more to it than what the manga did differently here and there. Onidamashi and Watadamashi were arguably better than the anime counterparts though. The survivability of K1 in particular. There were still some in the anime I liked despite the glaciar pacing and maybe the manga will solve my problems with some things Even the slightest details make me go insane sometimes and it was quite the shock to see that the manga has some of these details expanded. |
Ushiromiya Battler, right now, on this island, no one exists except for you. You're the only one alive in this island. However I'm here right now, and i'm about to kill you. Who... am I? |
Si1verR0se said: Danpmss said: The manga also has a ton of relevant information missing, some of which relatively important to the plot (the sword plot, Hanyuu enabling Rika to remember who kill her, the redeemed Takano plot that shows she had nothing to do with it). They still had Rika unexplainedly remembering and assuming Akasaka stabbed her to death. The manga covers an arc per tankobon, except the festival massacre in Tataridamashi, so maybe that's why many things in there are missing and modified despite similar story beats. Nekodamashi likewise just got covered in a single tankobon including the Tatari finale (similar to nekodamashi ep1 in the anime). The both of them likely deviate from the original memetic long script a fair bit for their mediums, even because the manga has first person narration from K1, and not just Rika in Neko (both manga and anime). And why would you think that "Sword" and "Hanyuu giving Rika ability to remember" are important to the plot? I mean, sword itself is just a full contradiction to OG, since it was used specifically to "Kill demons", and in Gou anime it suddenly was used "to kill loopers". Hanyu lost most of her powers, so it could be just Eua forcing Rika to remember everything. And "Takano has nothing to do with that" could be used later just to give a middle finger to Rika. It's to early to say that "manga skipped a lot of crucial details" since: a) anime didn't ended yet b) manga and anime plot differs a lot Imo manga is superior in every way in terms of plot and events. It isn't dragged for so long, it isn't that illogical with stupid bullshit like "Keichi surviving 20+ stab wounds along with 12hr bleeding" etc. I'd say we need to wait for Sotsu manga first to say whether or not there was "crucial cuts" in it 1- The OG only ever said the Onigari-no Ryuou was used "to defeat the Demon God" (Hanyuu). Not ever that "it only EXCLUSIVELY killed demons". I bet it can kill humans just fine anyway. No supposed "full contradiction" in there. 2- The whole point for Satoko to make Akasaka kill Rika was that she would remember and suffer, accelerating the process of her submitting, because of Hanyuu's sacrifice to give her power. In the manga she somehow, unexplainedly remembers anyway getting stabbed by him and assumes he killed her. Which is a plot hole btw, she shouldn't have. 3- Takano's plot is the very thing Rika is supposeddly certain about in both anime and manga, but the manga drops that plot entirely and just ended Nekodamashi without touching it again. I don't think it's superior in every way at all, it does some things better, and some things worse (sometimes much worse, like aforementioned plot). |
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ssjokg said: References that most people dont understand, repeat of Gou content, K1's scene was not needed at all, Satoko saying the same shit all over again....we wasted 6 minutes in all of that. 6 minutes in the 13th episode, with two eps remaining...all of that just for Hanyuu to be bound and- Oh look, more reuse of Gou content. For 5 more minutes, only new scenes were a few seconds of Hanyuu's crying face. And it still continues with the river scene. For the first 15 minutes and a few seconds we only had 1-2 minutes of new content...which was Ciconia references, Hanyuu getting fucked and crying as a reaction to the HUGE Gou recap scenes. It's PAFECTO! Then we have a recap of the last ep of Neko.Tbf THAT'S how you do a montage of previous scenes....the problem is that it is too late to waste time on that anyway... I am guessing Hanyuu is making Rika remember stuff she didnt actually see....what a bullshit move especially when the next scene is Satoko fucking up on her own...oh yes right...it was a miracle... @ToshiroIto Learn to count in minutes. And lol if 9 minutes of new content is supposed to be good then the bar is very fucking low for new higurashi.. vegeta8639 said: LOOOOL the exact same cliffhanger from months ago. Seriously fuck this show. Literally these entire 13 episodes and the last couple from Gou could be cut out without losing much of anything. Thinking about it this has to be some of the laziest writing I have ever seen. Hey how do we force the plot to continue now that it's over? Fuck it, lets just have an invincible god show up out of nowhere and torture all the characters for her amusement. Why the fuck not. This is dumpster tier writing even for fanfictions. I'm just glad there's only 2 more episodes and then it should hopefully be over. I strongly encourage everyone to just play the console arcs if you want more Higurashi as they are infinitely better than this shit. I don't see why you're so bothered by the lack of 'new content', when Sotsu isn't supposed to be a season with extensive amounts of new content. Sotsu is more of a character study of Satoko, and an answer to the big flaw with character development in the original. 'New content' isn't really needed to achieve what the show is trying to do. It isn't lazy writing at all when it's goal is to show how, when the events of Satoko's answer arcs happen, she does not learn the things she did, and turns out like this. In fact this is probably some of the best writing in the Higurashi series, minus the few plot conveniences taken to give Satoko free reign with the timelines. Also the references that 'most people don't understand' get a pass when considering the meta-textual relevance of them, and what the WTC connections actually mean and represent. |
Danpmss said: Si1verR0se said: And why would you think that "Sword" and "Hanyuu giving Rika ability to remember" are important to the plot? I mean, sword itself is just a full contradiction to OG, since it was used specifically to "Kill demons", and in Gou anime it suddenly was used "to kill loopers". Hanyu lost most of her powers, so it could be just Eua forcing Rika to remember everything. And "Takano has nothing to do with that" could be used later just to give a middle finger to Rika. It's to early to say that "manga skipped a lot of crucial details" since: a) anime didn't ended yet b) manga and anime plot differs a lot Imo manga is superior in every way in terms of plot and events. It isn't dragged for so long, it isn't that illogical with stupid bullshit like "Keichi surviving 20+ stab wounds along with 12hr bleeding" etc. I'd say we need to wait for Sotsu manga first to say whether or not there was "crucial cuts" in it 1- The OG only ever said the Onigari-no Ryuou was used "to defeat the Demon God" (Hanyuu). Not ever that "it only EXCLUSIVELY killed demons". I bet it can kill humans just fine anyway. No supposed "full contradiction" in there. 2- The whole point for Satoko to make Akasaka kill Rika was that she would remember and suffer, accelerating the process of her submitting, because of Hanyuu's sacrifice to give her power. In the manga she somehow, unexplainedly remembers anyway getting stabbed by him and assumes he killed her. Which is a plot hole btw, she shouldn't have. 3- Takano's plot is the very thing Rika is supposeddly certain about in both anime and manga, but the manga drops that plot entirely and just ended Nekodamashi without touching it again. I don't think it's superior in every way at all, it does some things better, and some things worse (sometimes much worse, like aforementioned plot). I highly doubt its changing the plot. What they are doing is only changing chronology. In the Manga Rika finding out Satoko comes out as a mistake. (It seems like that) The Swords ability to kill Demons Loopers is questionable. Simply because Hanyuu survived being disembowled with it. What more is there to be said? |
ChargecoulombSep 16, 2021 11:39 AM
vegeta8639 said: Manu_0 said: Not gonna lie SotsuGou really feels like a bad fanfiction, there's just so many things that either contradict the OG series or simply don't make any sense, and they are there just to move the plot forward. It feels like it was written by someone who knows almost nothing about Higurashi, and yet Ryukishi wrote the script and the staff is very knowledgeable about the series, like seriously what the fuck are they doing? I'm guessing Ryukishi is either playing 4D chess in his head and thinks he's creating some multi layered masterpiece that ties together with Umineko and Ciconia even though it looks like a giant turd to us. Or alternatively this is a lazy cash grab and they're throwing random shit at the wall that they think fans will find cool and hoping something sticks. What's worse is that it works, you'd be surprised by how many people desperately try to justify every single wrong thing that happens. "Satoko was able to shoot Mion because Eua used her magic to make her faster" "Satoko used Eua's magic to inject Mion" "Rika can remember Satoko at the end of Tatariakashi because Rena's memories transferred to Rika" or some other bullshit, you tell them that Rika died before seeing Satoko and they'll use the "but it's a miracle, it was like this in the OG too!" card "Teppei can remember past fragments without being close to any looper because Eua's magic is stronger than Hanyuu's therefore it works" It's genuinely painful to watch |
Manu_0Sep 16, 2021 11:57 AM
| what the actual fuck |
Danpmss said: Bruh, what? Are we even sure they "cut" them out and not moving them elsewhere? The manga ain't even over yet and just ended on Nekodamashi for fuck's sake. Or heck, maybe the arc is not over yet and we have one more chapter for the sword. Also, what? Rika assumed that Akasaka killed her because the last thing she remembers was getting home with him waiting for her and nothing else. Obviously, she truly believed that nothing will happen with him around so the logical conclusion is that he killed her, not she suddenly gets kidnapped or something.The manga also has a ton of relevant information missing, some of which relatively important to the plot (the sword plot, Hanyuu enabling Rika to remember who kill her, the redeemed Takano plot that shows she had nothing to do with it). They still had Rika unexplainedly remembering and assuming Akasaka stabbed her to death. The manga covers an arc per tankobon, except the festival massacre in Tataridamashi, so maybe that's why many things in there are missing and modified despite similar story beats. Nekodamashi likewise just got covered in a single tankobon including the Tatari finale (similar to nekodamashi ep1 in the anime). The both of them likely deviate from the original memetic long script a fair bit for their mediums, even because the manga has first person narration from K1, and not just Rika in Neko (both manga and anime). The whole thing with Nekodamashi is that she slowly loses hope, which the anime added her remembering every death afterward and the sword which she also intends to use on herself after 5 loops to make the situation more hopeless on her end. The manga is basically the same speedrun, but without the added bonus. It had the same message. Also, that Takano's "redemption" in Nekodamashi barely matters as she only says vague shit. We could just see her completely abandon the whole plan in Satokowashi to get it over with instead. |
| I still feel so bitter to all the episodes that we wasted to legit have recaps (one thing is re-telling the arcs like in Rena's and maybe Mion's case but everything else was such a waste) and now we're close to the end with such a small number of episodes and so much to unfold. The episode overall was okay, surely better than last week's. |
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| fkin recap again lmao, so whole S2 is just 2 eps lolz |
| IT is funny how many people are one the 13th episode of the second series and are saying it's boring. If they think it's boring, why did they watch so much of the show ? |
| The line below is True. The line above is False. |
| the titty shot intertwined with the shots of hanyuu being tied up made me tap out from the experience |
ToshiroIto said: This man cant be serious....ssjokg said: References that most people dont understand, repeat of Gou content, K1's scene was not needed at all, Satoko saying the same shit all over again....we wasted 6 minutes in all of that. 6 minutes in the 13th episode, with two eps remaining...all of that just for Hanyuu to be bound and- Oh look, more reuse of Gou content. For 5 more minutes, only new scenes were a few seconds of Hanyuu's crying face. And it still continues with the river scene. For the first 15 minutes and a few seconds we only had 1-2 minutes of new content...which was Ciconia references, Hanyuu getting fucked and crying as a reaction to the HUGE Gou recap scenes. It's PAFECTO! Then we have a recap of the last ep of Neko.Tbf THAT'S how you do a montage of previous scenes....the problem is that it is too late to waste time on that anyway... I am guessing Hanyuu is making Rika remember stuff she didnt actually see....what a bullshit move especially when the next scene is Satoko fucking up on her own...oh yes right...it was a miracle... @ToshiroIto Learn to count in minutes. And lol if 9 minutes of new content is supposed to be good then the bar is very fucking low for new higurashi.. vegeta8639 said: LOOOOL the exact same cliffhanger from months ago. Seriously fuck this show. Literally these entire 13 episodes and the last couple from Gou could be cut out without losing much of anything. Thinking about it this has to be some of the laziest writing I have ever seen. Hey how do we force the plot to continue now that it's over? Fuck it, lets just have an invincible god show up out of nowhere and torture all the characters for her amusement. Why the fuck not. This is dumpster tier writing even for fanfictions. I'm just glad there's only 2 more episodes and then it should hopefully be over. I strongly encourage everyone to just play the console arcs if you want more Higurashi as they are infinitely better than this shit. I don't see why you're so bothered by the lack of 'new content', when Sotsu isn't supposed to be a season with extensive amounts of new content. Sotsu is more of a character study of Satoko, and an answer to the big flaw with character development in the original. 'New content' isn't really needed to achieve what the show is trying to do. It isn't lazy writing at all when it's goal is to show how, when the events of Satoko's answer arcs happen, she does not learn the things she did, and turns out like this. In fact this is probably some of the best writing in the Higurashi series, minus the few plot conveniences taken to give Satoko free reign with the timelines. Also the references that 'most people don't understand' get a pass when considering the meta-textual relevance of them, and what the WTC connections actually mean and represent. Can you explain why we need 13+ episodes with all that reused content OF DIFFERENT CHARACTERS and events if it is all about Satoko's character study? And character study my ass. She is the same little goblin she was 13+ episodes ago in the last episodes of Gou. Her mind hasnt changed, her lines havent changed and her methods are still the same as ever. What character study? What flaw in the original? That she could do nothing and was a damsel in distress? Well she is the same here with the, out of nowhere, good Satoko getting fucked by evil Satoko. So she is still a damsel in distress and a huge pain in the ass for everyone. What the fuck has changed? Oh she kills Rika a bunch of times now....What great character development. And this episode specifically is about Hanyuu being a weak ass bitch and crying over Rika and Satoko.....so why are we getting extensive recaps, no they arent even recaps anymore; why are we getting the same fucking scenes? It blows my fucking mind that you have the audacity to claim that more than 15 minutes of recaps/reused scenes in multiple episodes and especially 2 eps away from the finale isnt a problem. |
Manu_0 said: What's worse is that it works, you'd be surprised by how many people desperately try to justify every single wrong thing that happens. "Satoko was able to shoot Mion because Eua used her magic to make her faster" "Satoko used Eua's magic to inject Mion" "Rika can remember Satoko at the end of Tatariakashi because Rena's memories transferred to Rika" or some other bullshit, you tell them that Rika died before seeing Satoko and they'll use the "but it's a miracle, it was like this in the OG too!" card "Teppei can remember past fragments without being close to any looper because Eua's magic is stronger than Hanyuu's therefore it works" It's genuinely painful to watch Not that I'm trying to defend this show but on the Mion one Satoko probably slipped it into the drink and I guess the drug still works when ingested. If you need to be close to a looper for that past fragments thing to work, how in the fuck did Rina have a change of heart when I'm pretty sure she's literally never met Rika or Satoko? And yea I'm pretty sure Rika realizing the truth is gonna be Rena related one way or another if for no other reason then because of this early promotional art for the season. She's literally standing between them and holding Rika's hand. How much more obvious can it get. |
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vegeta8639 said: Manu_0 said: What's worse is that it works, you'd be surprised by how many people desperately try to justify every single wrong thing that happens. "Satoko was able to shoot Mion because Eua used her magic to make her faster" "Satoko used Eua's magic to inject Mion" "Rika can remember Satoko at the end of Tatariakashi because Rena's memories transferred to Rika" or some other bullshit, you tell them that Rika died before seeing Satoko and they'll use the "but it's a miracle, it was like this in the OG too!" card "Teppei can remember past fragments without being close to any looper because Eua's magic is stronger than Hanyuu's therefore it works" It's genuinely painful to watch Not that I'm trying to defend this show but on the Mion one Satoko probably slipped it into the drink and I guess the drug still works when ingested. If you need to be close to a looper for that past fragments thing to work, how in the fuck did Rina have a change of heart when I'm pretty sure she's literally never met Rika or Satoko? And yea I'm pretty sure Rika realizing the truth is gonna be Rena related one way or another if for no other reason then because of this early promotional art for the season. She's literally standing between them and holding Rika's hand. How much more obvious can it get. I can kind of see the Mion thing but I don't understand why they decided not to show it, it makes me think that they didn't really have anything in mind About Rina, good question Yeah, ngl I like the idea of Rena being the one who helps Rika, it's just a matter of how they execute it, I wish they went with that in this episode instead of Rika finding out that way |
Manu_0Sep 16, 2021 12:55 PM
vegeta8639 said: Manu_0 said: What's worse is that it works, you'd be surprised by how many people desperately try to justify every single wrong thing that happens. "Satoko was able to shoot Mion because Eua used her magic to make her faster" "Satoko used Eua's magic to inject Mion" "Rika can remember Satoko at the end of Tatariakashi because Rena's memories transferred to Rika" or some other bullshit, you tell them that Rika died before seeing Satoko and they'll use the "but it's a miracle, it was like this in the OG too!" card "Teppei can remember past fragments without being close to any looper because Eua's magic is stronger than Hanyuu's therefore it works" It's genuinely painful to watch Not that I'm trying to defend this show but on the Mion one Satoko probably slipped it into the drink and I guess the drug still works when ingested. If you need to be close to a looper for that past fragments thing to work, how in the fuck did Rina have a change of heart when I'm pretty sure she's literally never met Rika or Satoko? And yea I'm pretty sure Rika realizing the truth is gonna be Rena related one way or another if for no other reason then because of this early promotional art for the season. She's literally standing between them and holding Rika's hand. How much more obvious can it get. I dont think its necessarily related to Eua. Since K1 remembered stuff in Mina as well. What I think. Based on what Eua said, is that she is constantly looping one single fragment instead of jumping from one to another like Hanyuu does. What Eua said is correct. The memory leaks happen because of her power - that is her power to reset fragments. 'People close to the looper' means the people affected by the loopers actions. Rina is affected by Teppeis reform. As for Rika knowing stuff after her death. Maybe Rena remebered stuff in Kimiyoshis or Akanes L5 loop and told Rika. Its that simple. And honestly makes more sense than memory transfer. |
LockeGran said: Danpmss said: Bruh, what? Are we even sure they "cut" them out and not moving them elsewhere? The manga ain't even over yet and just ended on Nekodamashi for fuck's sake. Or heck, maybe the arc is not over yet and we have one more chapter for the sword. Also, what? Rika assumed that Akasaka killed her because the last thing she remembers was getting home with him waiting for her and nothing else. Obviously, she truly believed that nothing will happen with him around so the logical conclusion is that he killed her, not she suddenly gets kidnapped or something.The manga also has a ton of relevant information missing, some of which relatively important to the plot (the sword plot, Hanyuu enabling Rika to remember who kill her, the redeemed Takano plot that shows she had nothing to do with it). They still had Rika unexplainedly remembering and assuming Akasaka stabbed her to death. The manga covers an arc per tankobon, except the festival massacre in Tataridamashi, so maybe that's why many things in there are missing and modified despite similar story beats. Nekodamashi likewise just got covered in a single tankobon including the Tatari finale (similar to nekodamashi ep1 in the anime). The both of them likely deviate from the original memetic long script a fair bit for their mediums, even because the manga has first person narration from K1, and not just Rika in Neko (both manga and anime). The whole thing with Nekodamashi is that she slowly loses hope, which the anime added her remembering every death afterward and the sword which she also intends to use on herself after 5 loops to make the situation more hopeless on her end. The manga is basically the same speedrun, but without the added bonus. It had the same message. Also, that Takano's "redemption" in Nekodamashi barely matters as she only says vague shit. We could just see her completely abandon the whole plan in Satokowashi to get it over with instead. Bruh, what? When will the manga will ever address those if they are just rearranging them, do tell me? As it is, in the order they introduced, it's an asspull (even if it was "foreshadowing" for Hanyuu doing just that in the background later on, in a Sotsu manga adaptation). She literally states rememberiing getting stabbed. She shouldn't remember even that, unless Hanyuu made that possible like she did in the anime. She just never remembers the last few hours before her death otherwise. Not the last few moments. If anything she could have gone anywhere, be killed by anyone a few hours later and not remember all the same, so yeah, assuming that Akasaka killed her and that she remembers being stabbed WITHOUT Hanyuu making it possible is just no good considering how that always had worked. The manga ain't even over yet and just ended on Nekodamashi, sure, but the consistency if following the same plot is just not there without what was established. The manga being no strange to trying to cram a whole arc in a single volume doesn't help much the case, Nekodamashi got crammed in not even a full tankobon and it shows. It doesn't even have the same stakes with Rika just looping until she gives up, which was used to an effectively dramatic effect in the anime, as she CAN kill herself once and for all, with the sword shard, as you well mentioned. It's just not as good as the anime counterpart, which seems to borrow much more from the original script when it comes to content (the manga has some few additions and changes that make some things better, but that's about it, do compare them side by side if you may, I did so myself a couple of times). As for the Takano plot, it's a plot point regarding Rika trying to figure things out, which gets concluded in Nekodamashi, but aborted in the manga (despite having started and built up with a rather more detailed conversation with Hanyuu than the start of Onidamashi in the anime). The manga and the anime both follow the same story and they both have their own flaws (Manga potentially being a deal breaker without properly addressing these things I said), so it's funny to me how people demonize the flaws in the anime and glorifies the ones in the manga as superior in every way, honestly. It's almost like you guys want to denigrate the anime and put the manga in a pedestal for "how things should have been done", when the manga had quite a few problems own its own, particularly in Nekodamashi, and the better additions in the manga were more regarding the violence in Onidamashi being survivable, K1 having monologues like Rika (which is likely in the original script, but they omitted like most of the ones in the old anime, which in my opinion is a shame) and Satoko having a gun holster just before the reveal (which was shown in Sotsu anyway, it only appease people who would complain like they did back when the ep aired). The anime mostly covered better the ground otherwise, type "Cubari Higurashi Gou" on Google and check the translated chapters for yourself. Do tell me what is so much more magnificent in the manga that the anime missed. I found more arguments for the opposite, despite the improvements in some areas. |
DanpmssSep 16, 2021 1:50 PM
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| Right, so we've got 2 episodes left of this now, and our recap festival has only just caught up to the point where Rika figures out the truth and finally confronts Satoko. How in the world is this possibly supposed to conclude in just two episodes? We've somehow had time for all these recaps, but not to answer several of Gou's most pressing questions. On top of that, I gather that a decent chunk of the new stuff we are getting is actually connected to Ciconia, which if I understand correctly isn't even complete yet? Granted, that's at least partly on me for having yet to read Ciconia, but how the hell was I (or anyone, for that matter) possibly supposed to know that we'd need knowledge of Ciconia to understand at least some of what's happening here (e.g. having only played and watched Umineko and watched Higurashi, this is the first I've heard of this "Vier" character)? Frankly, at this point I have to assume that the writers and director simply don't trust the viewers to put anything together: we did not need to explicitly see Hanyu learning that Satoko is the mastermind, and there's so many other blatantly obvious or easily-inferred details that Sotsu has deemed fit to waste time showing us. While Gou seemed to be going in a very interesting direction, Sotsu hasn't gone anywhere at all and is instead just an insult to the viewer's intelligence: it's taken us 21 fucking episodes to get back to the point where Gou finally revealed its hand. |
AtavisticSep 16, 2021 1:14 PM
| Another banger of an episode on Ryukishi's journey to write the worst possible time loop story to exist. There was no mystery set up in Gou that didn't already get revealed and these 13 episodes have been a complete waste of time of a recap that basically boils down to Satoko being able to magically inject a magic virus (which works completely different than the original series) into everyone regardless of whether they are awake or not. Even ignoring how there are no questions to be answered in the first place, the most baffling thing is that Rika never even solved anything before discovering the culprit. Even the shittiest mysteries and time loop stories I have read doesn't just give a magic flashback and feed the answer to the protagonist instead of the protagonist having that eureka moment where all the pieces fit together. Rika basically went from making 0 progress on solving the mystery to 100 instantly just because of that magic flashback that she would have no way of getting. And don't even talk about how this is supposed to be part of the "miracle" theme of Higurashi. This completely contradicts the message of the original Higurashi and even Bernkastel's character in Umineko. The whole message of Higurashi is that miracles don't just happen if you wait and do nothing and you have to actually create that miracle yourself. And if this is indeed the backstory of Bernkastel, it just ruins her entire character and make her into some loser who got lucky after giving up. And I am not even going to go deep into the dumbest fucking plot point I have ever seen that is the toy box again. You can't just have a character be completely unfazed after watching all her supposed friends suffering for a century then have a toybox with a spring trap trigger a panic attack. Eua is as shitty as ever and is basically an insult to Featherine by sharing her appearance. Ryukishi still can't decide whether Lambdadelta is supposed to be Satoko or the original higurashi villain that the story forgot. This is an insult to Higurashi and to some degree Umineko. I have no idea how any fans of either of those series actually think Sotsugou is good in any shape or form and I assume most newcomers have already left because of how incomprehensible this shit is. |
| These people must have a lot of talent and audacity to re-run the mediocre Gou storyline twice, and sometimes even more than twice. It's atrocious from the start itself. With Satoko placing a gun in a conspicuous location (and managing into the cafe), not getting seen (or not bothering to be worried) by the police who could easily see her, and the police (who are getting stabbed by fork while having shield) not caring to check the bodies and entering exactly when the entire crime is complete. Remember, no one was at gunpoint, it's not even a justifiable hostage situation. Aww f**k I don't want to put more thoughts than the creator put in this show. Then Eua engages Hanyuu in an uninspired beamfest before forcing her to watch things (and us to rewatch Gou) because they need to fill the episode length. YOU FORCE ME TO WATCH 13 EPISODES OF HIGURASHI: ROAD TO GOU & THINK THAT A FULL SCAN OF BOUND HANYUU'S BODY GONNA PACIFY ME? Maybe the writers are on L5 and they are hallucinating that they are writing a good story. That'll be a great plot twist. |
Laplace_kunSep 16, 2021 1:17 PM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Si1verR0se said: Danpmss said: 1- The OG only ever said the Onigari-no Ryuou was used "to defeat the Demon God" (Hanyuu). Not ever that "it only EXCLUSIVELY killed demons". I bet it can kill humans just fine anyway. No supposed "full contradiction" in there. You get what I mean, no point saying "it can kill human just fine" because duh it's a weapon Hanyu was a demon, not a looper. And sword was used for killing demons, so... Yeah, its ability to kill loopers appeared out of nowhere. Your point being??? The sword is said to have been used to defeat the Demon God. Not a single other detail about the sword was ever elaborated, there is no "full contradiction', and your point is therefore invalid. Danpmss said: 2- The whole point for Satoko to make Akasaka kill Rika was that she would remember and suffer, accelerating the process of her submitting, because of Hanyuu's sacrifice to give her power. In the manga she somehow, unexplainedly remembers anyway getting stabbed by him and assumes he killed her. Which is a plot hole btw, she shouldn't have. So by your logic she shouldn't assume that it's Akasaka who killed her, despite her last few hours were spent close to him, not to mention she wasn't drugged as it was originally with Takano(which explains her memory loss at that time, since she clearly can remember Shion torturing her as well as Rena blowing the school)? Well, whatever you say, mister So, by my logic, anything could have happened in the last few hours, but sure, her assumption WHILE REMEMBERING BEING STABBED, was Akasaka killing her, as he was with her. She shouldn't either remember being stabbed nor that, to begin with, so that's already a "full contradiction" to the original, as you like to say. Rika doesn't remember the last few hours before her death. It's not just because she would get blindfolded and drugged that she would forget, she can only vaguely remember things that once happened if they are repeating, and that actually goes for the loops as a whole (she actually forgot about Minagoroshi and many other fragments entirely).  And that was the very previous world, in which she swore she would remember no matter what. Wasn't for Hanyuu as usual, she just wouldn't. She even states as such, regarding previous fragments, during the Connecting Fragments portion, which is basically all on Hanyuu's powers AND point of view as well. Well, whatever you say, mister. Danpmss said: 3- Takano's plot is the very thing Rika is supposeddly certain about in both anime and manga, but the manga drops that plot entirely and just ended Nekodamashi without touching it again. Both manga and anime completely ignoring this plot poin till the "gun" cliffhanger. Which is stupid, no doubt. But manga could be just stalling it for a while. While readers know that it isn't Takano(or at least presumes, since Takano could still be at fault in something), Rika is clearly NOT. Which could lead to something more than "Oh year, I'm so sorry that I wanted to kill you. Not gonna say I'm sorry that I killed your parents because lol, newcomers didn't know about that" The problem here is that there's no going back to revisit this plot in her perspective unless they are leaving it to Sotsu. This plot point was regarding a red herring and part of the build up leading to the reveal with Satoko. It will be revisited in Satokowashi as well for a bit, but from Rika's own findings in terms of storytelling, even if they put it in Sotsu, it definitely missed its spot already. Not that it's as big of a problem as her remembering getting stabbed by Akasaka without Hanyuu helping, but hey. It's a rather consistent plot point that Rika doesn't at all remember all of her loops completely (sometimes, no matter how early, she just doesn't anything), and not just her last few hours before dying, which is already something consistent on itself. Her remembering other details usually comes from Hanyuu helping out pieceing things out (as she did with pieceing kakeras in Matsuribayashi) together. |
DanpmssSep 16, 2021 1:48 PM
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ssjokg said: ToshiroIto said: This man cant be serious....I don't see why you're so bothered by the lack of 'new content', when Sotsu isn't supposed to be a season with extensive amounts of new content. Sotsu is more of a character study of Satoko, and an answer to the big flaw with character development in the original. 'New content' isn't really needed to achieve what the show is trying to do. It isn't lazy writing at all when it's goal is to show how, when the events of Satoko's answer arcs happen, she does not learn the things she did, and turns out like this. In fact this is probably some of the best writing in the Higurashi series, minus the few plot conveniences taken to give Satoko free reign with the timelines. Also the references that 'most people don't understand' get a pass when considering the meta-textual relevance of them, and what the WTC connections actually mean and represent. Can you explain why we need 13+ episodes with all that reused content OF DIFFERENT CHARACTERS and events if it is all about Satoko's character study? And character study my ass. She is the same little goblin she was 13+ episodes ago in the last episodes of Gou. Her mind hasnt changed, her lines havent changed and her methods are still the same as ever. What character study? What flaw in the original? That she could do nothing and was a damsel in distress? Well she is the same here with the, out of nowhere, good Satoko getting fucked by evil Satoko. So she is still a damsel in distress and a huge pain in the ass for everyone. What the fuck has changed? Oh she kills Rika a bunch of times now....What great character development. And this episode specifically is about Hanyuu being a weak ass bitch and crying over Rika and Satoko.....so why are we getting extensive recaps, no they arent even recaps anymore; why are we getting the same fucking scenes? It blows my fucking mind that you have the audacity to claim that more than 15 minutes of recaps/reused scenes in multiple episodes and especially 2 eps away from the finale isnt a problem. You make no sense here at all. The big flaw in the original Higurashi was that everyone's character development would get reversed after every arc. With Satoko's case, she never learnt how to rely on her friends, and because of the St. Lucia stuff, she believed Rika abandoned her just like all her other loved ones have done. She has changed over the course of Sotsu. There is no 'good Satoko' and 'bad Satoko'. There is one Satoko, who at the beginning of Sotsu had some doubts, which got amplified by her seeing Teppei's change, and came to a head in Tatariakashi. She 'killed' her regrets and doubts, personified by the 'goog Satoko', and decided that she would do anything to achieve her goal. Oniakashi was important because of Rena's character (for people who haven't seen the original), as well as Rina's character, which leads to the new 'perfect world' we see at the end of Nekodamashi. Wataakashi was the least important arc not really any interesting things, except from Mion overhearing Rika's conversation with K1 making her think the curse is Rika's doing. Probably could be skipped. Tatariakashi was important for Satoko's character, as said above. And Kagurashi is important because of Eua and Hanyuu's characters. Hanyuu has obviously been focused on a lot, focusing on her despair seeing a person she considers as a daughter going through the loops. "Hanyuu being a weak ass bitch" is an incredibly stupid way of putting it. But really, the recaps don't really matter because the finale isn't going to be a grand battle of any sort. If we had no recap at all, Sotsu could've been done in about 5 episodes. Which could've been a better option, but I think most of the recap is necessary to show how Satoko reacts to her powers, and how it evolves her character in a completely natural way. |
ToshiroIto said: You make no sense here at all. The big flaw in the original Higurashi was that everyone's character development would get reversed after every arc. No, such a thing, character development was always carried over. People convinced themselves into thinking it wasn't true to justify Satoko and Rika being OOC in Gou, but one of the few things this shit sequel did was setting in stone that once the characters "change", they change in every successive words. Because apparently people finished Matsuri and genuinely thoughts the whole cast hadn't developed. How about that! You must think Higurashi was the worst VN ever. |
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Jin_uzuki said: ToshiroIto said: You make no sense here at all. The big flaw in the original Higurashi was that everyone's character development would get reversed after every arc. No, such a thing, character development was always carried over. People convinced themselves into thinking it wasn't true to justify Satoko and Rika being OOC in Gou, but one of the few things this shit sequel did was setting in stone that once the characters "change", they change in every successive words. Because apparently people finished Matsuri and genuinely thoughts the whole cast hadn't developed. How about that! You must think Higurashi was the worst VN ever. Higurashi is one of the best VNs I've read and you can quote me on that. I prefer Cico and Umi but it's still one of the best. Still though, character development has to start over at the beginning of every arc, and while I don't consider that the stories flaw, it is a flaw in the sense that some of the characters lose what they've learnt, with Satoko being the main offender of it. I have no idea how you can think Satoko and Rika are out of character when it is completely understandable that their characters from the VN changed and became like this. They are the same characters they were, with the same amount of development a person would usually experience after a few years. Maybe you should go and read it again? Maybe then you'd see how much unintentional foreshadowing towards Sotsugou exists. |
ToshiroIto said: I refuse to take this post seriously.ssjokg said: This man cant be serious.... Can you explain why we need 13+ episodes with all that reused content OF DIFFERENT CHARACTERS and events if it is all about Satoko's character study? And character study my ass. She is the same little goblin she was 13+ episodes ago in the last episodes of Gou. Her mind hasnt changed, her lines havent changed and her methods are still the same as ever. What character study? What flaw in the original? That she could do nothing and was a damsel in distress? Well she is the same here with the, out of nowhere, good Satoko getting fucked by evil Satoko. So she is still a damsel in distress and a huge pain in the ass for everyone. What the fuck has changed? Oh she kills Rika a bunch of times now....What great character development. And this episode specifically is about Hanyuu being a weak ass bitch and crying over Rika and Satoko.....so why are we getting extensive recaps, no they arent even recaps anymore; why are we getting the same fucking scenes? It blows my fucking mind that you have the audacity to claim that more than 15 minutes of recaps/reused scenes in multiple episodes and especially 2 eps away from the finale isnt a problem. You make no sense here at all. The big flaw in the original Higurashi was that everyone's character development would get reversed after every arc. With Satoko's case, she never learnt how to rely on her friends, and because of the St. Lucia stuff, she believed Rika abandoned her just like all her other loved ones have done. She has changed over the course of Sotsu. There is no 'good Satoko' and 'bad Satoko'. There is one Satoko, who at the beginning of Sotsu had some doubts, which got amplified by her seeing Teppei's change, and came to a head in Tatariakashi. She 'killed' her regrets and doubts, personified by the 'goog Satoko', and decided that she would do anything to achieve her goal. Oniakashi was important because of Rena's character (for people who haven't seen the original), as well as Rina's character, which leads to the new 'perfect world' we see at the end of Nekodamashi. Wataakashi was the least important arc not really any interesting things, except from Mion overhearing Rika's conversation with K1 making her think the curse is Rika's doing. Probably could be skipped. Tatariakashi was important for Satoko's character, as said above. And Kagurashi is important because of Eua and Hanyuu's characters. Hanyuu has obviously been focused on a lot, focusing on her despair seeing a person she considers as a daughter going through the loops. "Hanyuu being a weak ass bitch" is an incredibly stupid way of putting it. But really, the recaps don't really matter because the finale isn't going to be a grand battle of any sort. If we had no recap at all, Sotsu could've been done in about 5 episodes. Which could've been a better option, but I think most of the recap is necessary to show how Satoko reacts to her powers, and how it evolves her character in a completely natural way. So you ignore everyone's, except Satoko, development at the final arcs when they learn to trust each other.... What doubts did she have lol....Since the first loop she was grinning and laughing like an idiot villain.The only time shad any doubt was the same ep the good Satoko lost. Jin_uzuki said: They either have no experience even with the adaptation or they just force lies to defend this.ToshiroIto said: You make no sense here at all. The big flaw in the original Higurashi was that everyone's character development would get reversed after every arc. No, such a thing, character development was always carried over. People convinced themselves into thinking it wasn't true to justify Satoko and Rika being OOC in Gou, but one of the few things this shit sequel did was setting in stone that once the characters "change", they change in every successive words. Because apparently people finished Matsuri and genuinely thoughts the whole cast hadn't developed. How about that! You must think Higurashi was the worst VN ever. |
Danpmss said: The sword is only important for the last part of the story for it to finally end, we can get it anytime just before it happens. As I've said before, the anime added it at the beginning of Nekodamashi to further ruin the last part of hope that Rika had. Sure, it had a different experience in the manga but it still gives the same message. The point is that she never able to escape the loop and even Akasaka being there he will not able help her like she believes. I surely was confused when the sword never comes up, but I am sure it will be mentioned anyway since it's an important plot point. LockeGran said: Bruh, what? Are we even sure they "cut" them out and not moving them elsewhere? The manga ain't even over yet and just ended on Nekodamashi for fuck's sake. Or heck, maybe the arc is not over yet and we have one more chapter for the sword. Also, what? Rika assumed that Akasaka killed her because the last thing she remembers was getting home with him waiting for her and nothing else. Obviously, she truly believed that nothing will happen with him around so the logical conclusion is that he killed her, not she suddenly gets kidnapped or something. The whole thing with Nekodamashi is that she slowly loses hope, which the anime added her remembering every death afterward and the sword which she also intends to use on herself after 5 loops to make the situation more hopeless on her end. The manga is basically the same speedrun, but without the added bonus. It had the same message. Also, that Takano's "redemption" in Nekodamashi barely matters as she only says vague shit. We could just see her completely abandon the whole plan in Satokowashi to get it over with instead. Bruh, what? When will the manga will ever address those if they are just rearranging them, do tell me? As it is, in the order they introduced, it's an asspull (even if it was "foreshadowing" for Hanyuu doing just that in the background later on, in a Sotsu manga adaptation). She literally states rememberiing getting stabbed. She shouldn't remember even that, unless Hanyuu made that possible like she did in the anime. She just never remembers the last few hours before her death otherwise. Not the last few moments. If anything she could have gone anywhere, be killed by anyone a few hours later and not remember all the same, so yeah, assuming that Akasaka killed her and that she remembers being stabbed WITHOUT Hanyuu making impossible is just no good considering how that always had worked. The manga ain't even over yet and just ended on Nekodamashi, sure, but the consistency if following the same plot is just not there without what was established. The manga being no strange to trying to cram a whole arc in a single volume doesn't help much the case, Nekodamashi got crammed in not even a full tankobon and it shows. It doesn't even have the same stakes with Rika just looping until she gives up, which was used to an effectively dramatic effect in the anime, as she CAN kill herself once and for all, with the sword shard, as you well mentioned. It's just not as good as the anime counterpart, which seems to borrow much more from the original script when it comes to content (the manga has some few additions and changes that make some things better, but that's about it, do compare them side by side if you may, I did so myself a couple of times). As for the Takano plot, it's a plot point regarding Rika trying to figure things out, which gets concluded in Nekodamashi, but aborted in the manga (despite having started and built up with a rather more detailed conversation with Hanyuu than the start of Onidamashi in the anime). The manga and the anime both follow the same story and they both have their own flaws (Manga potentially being a deal breaker without properly addressing these things I said), so it's funny to me how people demonize the flaws in the anime and glorifies the ones in the manga as superior in every way, honestly. It's almost like you guys want to denigrate the anime and put the manga in a pedestal for "how things should have been done", when the manga had quite a few problems own its own, particularly in Nekodamashi, and the better additions in the manga were more regarding the violence in Onidamashi being survivable, K1 having monologues like Rika (which is likely in the original script, but they omitted like most of the ones in the old anime, which in my opinion is a shame) and Satoko having a gun holster just before the reveal (which was shown in Sotsu anyway, it only appease people who would complain like they did back when the ep aired). The anime mostly covered better the ground otherwise, type "Cubari Higurashi Gou" on Google and check the translated chapters for yourself. Do tell me what is so much more magnificent in the manga that the anime missed. I found more arguments for the opposite, despite the improvements in some areas. Rika never remember that Akasaka stabbed her or even said it. She had flashes of blurry memories and said that he must've killed her, which is a logical assumption considering what her last memory was. I read both the original and translation, she only said that she was sure Akasaka killed her but nothing else came to mind. I admit, I don't remember how the memory loss works in the OG exactly so it may bend the rules a bit, but what else isn't honestly. Takano doesn't matter. Rika didn't do anything about her in the whole runtime of Gou or talk about her, and even in Sotsu there's nothing about Rika trying to spy Takano or something. It absolutely makes sense for omitting it since Rika obviously doesn't care either way. It's consistent with her new characterization. And why should we bother with half-assed confession in Nekodamashi when we could've waited for Satokowashi instead? I like the manga because it had a better overall direction compared to the anime and I believe is the best way to experience Gou, but it barely matters when I loathe the whole storyline. I'm not going to argue anymore because I've seen the debate you had before and it's tiring to read. If you like the anime better, then good for you. Let's agree to disagree. |
ToshiroIto said: and while I don't consider that the stories flaw, it is a flaw in the sense that some of the characters lose what they've learnt, . No, they don't, no one finished Matsuri and genuinely argued "Satoko or Shion or Keiichi didn't learn shit and they are the same people as arc 1" even thought everything in the story points out at it being the opposite. It's purely a discourse created to justify their behaviors in SotsuGou which ironically proved all the people who argued this wrong by having Teppei and Takano and everyone else keeping their "character development" through the fragments. And we certainly didn't need a sequels 15 years later to "address" an issue the original story already cleared up. |
Jin_uzukiSep 16, 2021 2:19 PM
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ssjokg said: ToshiroIto said: I refuse to take this post seriously.You make no sense here at all. The big flaw in the original Higurashi was that everyone's character development would get reversed after every arc. With Satoko's case, she never learnt how to rely on her friends, and because of the St. Lucia stuff, she believed Rika abandoned her just like all her other loved ones have done. She has changed over the course of Sotsu. There is no 'good Satoko' and 'bad Satoko'. There is one Satoko, who at the beginning of Sotsu had some doubts, which got amplified by her seeing Teppei's change, and came to a head in Tatariakashi. She 'killed' her regrets and doubts, personified by the 'goog Satoko', and decided that she would do anything to achieve her goal. Oniakashi was important because of Rena's character (for people who haven't seen the original), as well as Rina's character, which leads to the new 'perfect world' we see at the end of Nekodamashi. Wataakashi was the least important arc not really any interesting things, except from Mion overhearing Rika's conversation with K1 making her think the curse is Rika's doing. Probably could be skipped. Tatariakashi was important for Satoko's character, as said above. And Kagurashi is important because of Eua and Hanyuu's characters. Hanyuu has obviously been focused on a lot, focusing on her despair seeing a person she considers as a daughter going through the loops. "Hanyuu being a weak ass bitch" is an incredibly stupid way of putting it. But really, the recaps don't really matter because the finale isn't going to be a grand battle of any sort. If we had no recap at all, Sotsu could've been done in about 5 episodes. Which could've been a better option, but I think most of the recap is necessary to show how Satoko reacts to her powers, and how it evolves her character in a completely natural way. So you ignore everyone's, except Satoko, development at the final arcs when they learn to trust each other.... What doubts did she have lol....Since the first loop she was grinning and laughing like an idiot villain.The only time shad any doubt was the same ep the good Satoko lost. Jin_uzuki said: They either have no experience even with the adaptation or they just force lies to defend this.No, such a thing, character development was always carried over. People convinced themselves into thinking it wasn't true to justify Satoko and Rika being OOC in Gou, but one of the few things this shit sequel did was setting in stone that once the characters "change", they change in every successive words. Because apparently people finished Matsuri and genuinely thoughts the whole cast hadn't developed. How about that! You must think Higurashi was the worst VN ever. I refuse to take you seriously as well. You've seriously read the VN and tell me that Satoko's development in Masturi is on the same level as Minagoroshi? Her character in Sotsugou is natural. She's someone who has had all her loved ones leave, and all the people who should love her have abused her, and then Rika (from her perspective) abandons her too. Her actions, if twisted to the extreme, are completely natural. Also, hints of doubts were shown all the way through Tatariakashi, and was mostly a result of Teppei. She didn't have many doubts before that because Teppei wasn't there to show her how much she has changed. |
ToshiroIto said: I havent read the Vn and I start to doubt your reading skills when I specifically excluded Satoko.ssjokg said: I refuse to take this post seriously. So you ignore everyone's, except Satoko, development at the final arcs when they learn to trust each other.... What doubts did she have lol....Since the first loop she was grinning and laughing like an idiot villain.The only time shad any doubt was the same ep the good Satoko lost. They either have no experience even with the adaptation or they just force lies to defend this. I refuse to take you seriously as well. You've seriously read the VN and tell me that Satoko's development in Masturi is on the same level as Minagoroshi? Her character in Sotsugou is natural. She's someone who has had all her loved ones leave, and all the people who should love her have abused her, and then Rika (from her perspective) abandons her too. Her actions, if twisted to the extreme, are completely natural. Also, hints of doubts were shown all the way through Tatariakashi, and was mostly a result of Teppei. She didn't have many doubts before that because Teppei wasn't there to show her how much she has changed. And lol no, Satoko is everything except natural in SotsuGou.Same goes for Rika. There were no doubts. There was surprise about his change but no doubts. |
Jin_uzuki said: ToshiroIto said: and while I don't consider that the stories flaw, it is a flaw in the sense that some of the characters lose what they've learnt, . No, they don't, no one finished Matsuri and genuinely argued "Satoko or Shion or Keiichi didn't learn shit and they are the same people as arc 1" even thought everything in the story points out at it being the opposite. It's purely a discourse created to justify their behaviors in SotsuGou which ironically proved all the people who argued this wrong by having Teppei and Takano and everyone else keeping up their "character development" through the fragments. And we certainly didn't need a sequels 15 years later to "address" an issue the original story already cleared up. I'm not saying they didn't learn anything, I'm saying that they had to relearn everything the the final arc for it to actually mean anything. Teppei and Takano doesn't prove it wrong at all? It's just an alternate version of what Satoko's going through to a lesser extent, to prove that 'bad' people can change, given the right influences. I don't see how it relates at all it doesn't prove anything. And who cares if we needed a sequel or not? That doesn't stop Sotsugou being an interesting exploration of the Higu characters, and a nice expansion on it's themes. |
ssjokg said: ToshiroIto said: I havent read the Vn and I start to doubt your reading skills when I specifically excluded Satoko.I refuse to take you seriously as well. You've seriously read the VN and tell me that Satoko's development in Masturi is on the same level as Minagoroshi? Her character in Sotsugou is natural. She's someone who has had all her loved ones leave, and all the people who should love her have abused her, and then Rika (from her perspective) abandons her too. Her actions, if twisted to the extreme, are completely natural. Also, hints of doubts were shown all the way through Tatariakashi, and was mostly a result of Teppei. She didn't have many doubts before that because Teppei wasn't there to show her how much she has changed. And lol no, Satoko is everything except natural in SotsuGou.Same goes for Rika. There were no doubts. There was surprise about his change but no doubts. Just denying what I say isn't how you debate things? It's just dumb and counter-productive. If you know anything that proves me wrong feel free to say it but I doubt you can if that's what you're resorting to. And sorry if I did read that wrong, I'm very tired right now, and really should probably be sleeping. |
ToshiroIto said: ssjokg said: I refuse to take this post seriously. So you ignore everyone's, except Satoko, development at the final arcs when they learn to trust each other.... What doubts did she have lol....Since the first loop she was grinning and laughing like an idiot villain.The only time shad any doubt was the same ep the good Satoko lost. They either have no experience even with the adaptation or they just force lies to defend this. I refuse to take you seriously as well. You've seriously read the VN and tell me that Satoko's development in Masturi is on the same level as Minagoroshi? Her character in Sotsugou is natural. She's someone who has had all her loved ones leave, and all the people who should love her have abused her, and then Rika (from her perspective) abandons her too. Her actions, if twisted to the extreme, are completely natural. Also, hints of doubts were shown all the way through Tatariakashi, and was mostly a result of Teppei. She didn't have many doubts before that because Teppei wasn't there to show her how much she has changed. Yes again, your problem is that you don't understand Higurashi's structure. She doesn't need to develop in Matsuri because she already developed in Minagoroshi. It's the same as every other fucking character changing after their episode, never going L5 again and not repeating their mistakes. The whole "Satoko didn't develop" thing is only a recent thing that came out from people trying to explain why her and Rika are OOC. No one who finished Matsuri and went "Fuck yeah, the characters faced their issues and now came together to perform a miracle... except Satoko, she regressed and still suffers from the same issue in the miracle world". LOL, the whole thing exists just to justify SotsuGou spotty writing basically. |
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LockeGran said: Danpmss said: The sword is only important for the last part of the story for it to finally end, we can get it anytime just before it happens. As I've said before, the anime added it at the beginning of Nekodamashi to further ruin the last part of hope that Rika had. Sure, it had a different experience in the manga but it still gives the same message. The point is that she never able to escape the loop and even Akasaka being there he will not able help her like she believes. I surely was confused when the sword never comes up, but I am sure it will be mentioned anyway since it's an important plot point. Bruh, what? When will the manga will ever address those if they are just rearranging them, do tell me? As it is, in the order they introduced, it's an asspull (even if it was "foreshadowing" for Hanyuu doing just that in the background later on, in a Sotsu manga adaptation). She literally states rememberiing getting stabbed. She shouldn't remember even that, unless Hanyuu made that possible like she did in the anime. She just never remembers the last few hours before her death otherwise. Not the last few moments. If anything she could have gone anywhere, be killed by anyone a few hours later and not remember all the same, so yeah, assuming that Akasaka killed her and that she remembers being stabbed WITHOUT Hanyuu making impossible is just no good considering how that always had worked. The manga ain't even over yet and just ended on Nekodamashi, sure, but the consistency if following the same plot is just not there without what was established. The manga being no strange to trying to cram a whole arc in a single volume doesn't help much the case, Nekodamashi got crammed in not even a full tankobon and it shows. It doesn't even have the same stakes with Rika just looping until she gives up, which was used to an effectively dramatic effect in the anime, as she CAN kill herself once and for all, with the sword shard, as you well mentioned. It's just not as good as the anime counterpart, which seems to borrow much more from the original script when it comes to content (the manga has some few additions and changes that make some things better, but that's about it, do compare them side by side if you may, I did so myself a couple of times). As for the Takano plot, it's a plot point regarding Rika trying to figure things out, which gets concluded in Nekodamashi, but aborted in the manga (despite having started and built up with a rather more detailed conversation with Hanyuu than the start of Onidamashi in the anime). The manga and the anime both follow the same story and they both have their own flaws (Manga potentially being a deal breaker without properly addressing these things I said), so it's funny to me how people demonize the flaws in the anime and glorifies the ones in the manga as superior in every way, honestly. It's almost like you guys want to denigrate the anime and put the manga in a pedestal for "how things should have been done", when the manga had quite a few problems own its own, particularly in Nekodamashi, and the better additions in the manga were more regarding the violence in Onidamashi being survivable, K1 having monologues like Rika (which is likely in the original script, but they omitted like most of the ones in the old anime, which in my opinion is a shame) and Satoko having a gun holster just before the reveal (which was shown in Sotsu anyway, it only appease people who would complain like they did back when the ep aired). The anime mostly covered better the ground otherwise, type "Cubari Higurashi Gou" on Google and check the translated chapters for yourself. Do tell me what is so much more magnificent in the manga that the anime missed. I found more arguments for the opposite, despite the improvements in some areas. Rika never remember that Akasaka stabbed her or even said it. She had flashes of blurry memories and said that he must've killed her, which is a logical assumption considering what her last memory was. I read both the original and translation, she only said that she was sure Akasaka killed her but nothing else came to mind. I admit, I don't remember how the memory loss works in the OG exactly so it may bend the rules a bit, but what else isn't honestly. Takano doesn't matter. Rika didn't do anything about her in the whole runtime of Gou or talk about her, and even in Sotsu there's nothing about Rika trying to spy Takano or something. It absolutely makes sense for omitting it since Rika obviously doesn't care either way. It's consistent with her new characterization. And why should we bother with half-assed confession in Nekodamashi when we could've waited for Satokowashi instead? I like the manga because it had a better overall direction compared to the anime and I believe is the best way to experience Gou, but it barely matters when I loathe the whole storyline. I'm not going to argue anymore because I've seen the debate you had before and it's tiring to read. If you like the anime better, then good for you. Let's agree to disagree. Well, if you prefer not to continue the discussion, I'll stop here then (made further arguments on what you just said in another reply in any case). My conclusion is that both the manga and the anime had their pros and cons, trying to adapt the said-to-be humongus original script for Newgurashi. None are perfect and they have their flaws. We are not too distant in that regard.... Except I like both fine (even with their flaws) and you dislike them I guess, so yeah, agree to disagree in there. |
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Jin_uzuki said: ToshiroIto said: I refuse to take you seriously as well. You've seriously read the VN and tell me that Satoko's development in Masturi is on the same level as Minagoroshi? Her character in Sotsugou is natural. She's someone who has had all her loved ones leave, and all the people who should love her have abused her, and then Rika (from her perspective) abandons her too. Her actions, if twisted to the extreme, are completely natural. Also, hints of doubts were shown all the way through Tatariakashi, and was mostly a result of Teppei. She didn't have many doubts before that because Teppei wasn't there to show her how much she has changed. Yes again, your problem is that you don't understand Higurashi's structure. She doesn't need to develop in Matsuri because she already developed in Minagoroshi. It's the same as every other fucking character changing after their episode, never going L5 again and not repeating their mistakes. The whole "Satoko didn't develop" thing is only a recent thing that came out from people trying to explain why her and Rika are OOC. I completely understand the structure, I'm not saying it's a flaw with the actual story, but it's a flaw within the Higurashi universe. If Satoko never develops in Masturi, she becomes what she is in Sotsugou, and that's completely natural. A lot of Sotsugou revolves around how people change according to their surroundings, and Satoko changing is part of that. |
| Two recap episodes in a row with the exact same cliffhanger And apparently this thread is filled with spoilers too so I can't read it I'm gonna cry |
ToshiroIto said: Those two seasons are filled with posts of why we think Satoko and Rika are ooc.ssjokg said: I havent read the Vn and I start to doubt your reading skills when I specifically excluded Satoko. And lol no, Satoko is everything except natural in SotsuGou.Same goes for Rika. There were no doubts. There was surprise about his change but no doubts. Just denying what I say isn't how you debate things? It's just dumb and counter-productive. If you know anything that proves me wrong feel free to say it but I doubt you can if that's what you're resorting to. And sorry if I did read that wrong, I'm very tired right now, and really should probably be sleeping. I am sorry but I am no longer in the mood to repeat those for the nth time. |
| Hmm yes 13 episodes of nothing new before what presumably will be a rushed ending. You love to see it. I don't know why people think what I just described is bad, but I guess your IQ has to be pretty high to enjoy Sotsu. This show sucks so much. |
| Now, count up your sins! |
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