So tell me once again how Chamot is the strongest?

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Apr 2013

7960

Saying that she needs to win without her pets is stupid... She's called the strongest because no one can win against her... WHy would a summoner needs to become muscular to be called the strongest ? Are you going to ask Goldof to win without his spear and without his armor, Mora to win without her power, Nashetania to win without her power, Adlet to win without his bag of tricks and just with his fists, Hans to win without his daggers, and fremy to win without her gun...?

Sorry, but that's plain stupid. It took two rokka (who are supposed to be already the best warriors in the world since they were selected) to barely manage to take down a half serious Chamo. If the rokka are the best of the best and that Chamo can take two of them head on, obviously she's the most powerful human in this world.

There's no need to go into long argument and so on. Even Fremy's bullet when she tried to assassinate her, even bombs from her afterwards didn't scratch her. No one can reach her alone, no one can wounds her without using underhanded methods, almost no one can escape her either. What is more strong than that? Why would Chamo needs to become some kind of karate kid before being acknowledged as the most powerful?

HandsomeMan said:
She's a "self-proclaimed" strongest, like a certain MC.

No, she is SAID to be the strongest. Contrary to Adlet, everyone says and have always said that Chamo is the strongest Saint in history. That's why she's surprised when Adlet says he's the strongest. Everyone is saying it's her, and if there is such a unanimity in saying this is because the gap between her and the second strongest is too huge to leave room for listing several warriors/Saints as being the most powerful fighters.

ZefyrisSep 9, 2015 2:23 AM

Sep 9, 2015 6:17 AM

#54

Offline

Jun 2015

162

Zefyris said:
Saying that she needs to win without her pets is stupid... She's called the strongest because no one can win against her... WHy would a summoner needs to become muscular to be called the strongest ? Are you going to ask Goldof to win without his spear and without his armor, Mora to win without her power, Nashetania to win without her power, Adlet to win without his bag of tricks and just with his fists, Hans to win without his daggers, and fremy to win without her gun...?

Sorry, but that's plain stupid. It took two rokka (who are supposed to be already the best warriors in the world since they were selected) to barely manage to take down a half serious Chamo. If the rokka are the best of the best and that Chamo can take two of them head on, obviously she's the most powerful human in this world.

There's no need to go into long argument and so on. Even Fremy's bullet when she tried to assassinate her, even bombs from her afterwards didn't scratch her. No one can reach her alone, no one can wounds her without using underhanded methods, almost no one can escape her either. What is more strong than that? Why would Chamo needs to become some kind of karate kid before being acknowledged as the most powerful?

HandsomeMan said:
She's a "self-proclaimed" strongest, like a certain MC.

No, she is SAID to be the strongest. Contrary to Adlet, everyone says and have always said that Chamo is the strongest Saint in history. That's why she's surprised when Adlet says he's the strongest. Everyone is saying it's her, and if there is such a unanimity in saying this is because the gap between her and the second strongest is too huge to leave room for listing several warriors/Saints as being the most powerful fighters.

She can summon as many fiends she wants or there is a limit?For example why didnt she spat out more than one fiend when hans was running towards her?
Can her summons do anything special?I mean can they fight like block attacks and stuff.Against hans not even 1 of them blocked an attack.They just take the hit and splash.

i get what you mean everyone says she is the strongest etc ....and prolly not one of the male warriors could hurt her.But any saint that has a wide area of attack could prolly ''outsmart'' her and get 1 attack through.
Any saint with an ability to hit multiple targets might have a chance against her and the fact that it took just 1 hit against her to loose control of her fiends,who knows maybe she trips and falls during a fight =her dying lol.

Example : Chamo summons fiends,some fiends go after nashetania lets say 20 fiends that are close to chamo rush to defend her and nashetania sends 30 blades from above chamo.20 fiends 30 blades if she cant move fast enough to avoid them what gonna happen?The fiends splash for few seconds 1 might get through etc from what we seen why is it so hard....or for example Maura's earthquake move or sth could cause chamo to fall down hurt her head or sth dunno.We get what chars think etc but it was not shown...

''eryone is saying it's her, and if there is such a unanimity in saying this is because the gap between her and the second strongest is too huge to leave room for listing several warriors/Saints as being the most powerful fighters''

They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^

darbouxSep 9, 2015 7:08 AM

Sep 9, 2015 8:35 AM

#55

Offline

Aug 2015

193

darboux said:

She can summon as many fiends she wants or there is a limit?For example why didnt she spat out more than one fiend when hans was running towards her?
Can her summons do anything special?I mean can they fight like block attacks and stuff.Against hans not even 1 of them blocked an attack.They just take the hit and splash.

i get what you mean everyone says she is the strongest etc ....and prolly not one of the male warriors could hurt her.But any saint that has a wide area of attack could prolly ''outsmart'' her and get 1 attack through.
Any saint with an ability to hit multiple targets might have a chance against her and the fact that it took just 1 hit against her to loose control of her fiends,who knows maybe she trips and falls during a fight =her dying lol.

Example : Chamo summons fiends,some fiends go after nashetania lets say 20 fiends that are close to chamo rush to defend her and nashetania sends 30 blades from above chamo.20 fiends 30 blades if she cant move fast enough to avoid them what gonna happen?The fiends splash for few seconds 1 might get through etc from what we seen why is it so hard....or for example Maura's earthquake move or sth could cause chamo to fall down hurt her head or sth dunno.We get what chars think etc but it was not shown...

''eryone is saying it's her, and if there is such a unanimity in saying this is because the gap between her and the second strongest is too huge to leave room for listing several warriors/Saints as being the most powerful fighters''

They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^

This thread. For anyone who cannot believe Chamot's the strongest, or stronger than the other braves then you're falling under a fallacy. Stop throwing arguments from personal incredulity when:

A. You don't know all their abilities yet.
B. You're basing your theories on common sense, when the 'common sense' in the world of Rokka could be different; it's a different universe and there are different rules for saints and their powers etc.
C. You are basically rejecting the exposition that Rokka has given you. If they say she's the strongest then you HAVE to ACCEPT it. It's deemed as a fact for us because you don't live in that world and it is information given to us.

END OF DISCUSSION

Sep 9, 2015 9:59 AM

#56

Offline

Jun 2015

162

Frrrosty said:

darboux said:

She can summon as many fiends she wants or there is a limit?For example why didnt she spat out more than one fiend when hans was running towards her?
Can her summons do anything special?I mean can they fight like block attacks and stuff.Against hans not even 1 of them blocked an attack.They just take the hit and splash.

i get what you mean everyone says she is the strongest etc ....and prolly not one of the male warriors could hurt her.But any saint that has a wide area of attack could prolly ''outsmart'' her and get 1 attack through.
Any saint with an ability to hit multiple targets might have a chance against her and the fact that it took just 1 hit against her to loose control of her fiends,who knows maybe she trips and falls during a fight =her dying lol.

Example : Chamo summons fiends,some fiends go after nashetania lets say 20 fiends that are close to chamo rush to defend her and nashetania sends 30 blades from above chamo.20 fiends 30 blades if she cant move fast enough to avoid them what gonna happen?The fiends splash for few seconds 1 might get through etc from what we seen why is it so hard....or for example Maura's earthquake move or sth could cause chamo to fall down hurt her head or sth dunno.We get what chars think etc but it was not shown...

''eryone is saying it's her, and if there is such a unanimity in saying this is because the gap between her and the second strongest is too huge to leave room for listing several warriors/Saints as being the most powerful fighters''

They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^

This thread. For anyone who cannot believe Chamot's the strongest, or stronger than the other braves then you're falling under a fallacy. Stop throwing arguments from personal incredulity when:

A. You don't know all their abilities yet.
B. You're basing your theories on common sense, when the 'common sense' in the world of Rokka could be different; it's a different universe and there are different rules for saints and their powers etc.
C. You are basically rejecting the exposition that Rokka has given you. If they say she's the strongest then you HAVE to ACCEPT it. It's deemed as a fact for us because you don't live in that world and it is information given to us.

END OF DISCUSSION

''They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^''

Dude if you cannot read other people comments then please no reply to me.

I get how she could be the strongest.

BUT THEY DID A POOR JOB SHOWING IT IN THE ANIME!!!!!

you understand english or not?(its not my native language so apologize if i make my point hard to understand,maybe i am the one that doesnt make sense).

A char that was hyped to be the strongest was not shown so impressive in the show.Wtf does that have to do with anything you say.

And all my speculation is based on ''what we saw from her fight'' get it now?

Sorry if i offended your fav char or show by having different opinion.

Sep 9, 2015 11:04 AM

#57

Kaiser-chan

Offline

Nov 2011

14856

Chamot got an army of regenerating demons, maybe with some heavy prep another Rokka can beat her one on one but that fact that you need handicap to win against her already show who is stronger.

Sep 9, 2015 11:12 AM

#58

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Aug 2015

193

darboux said:

''They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^''

Dude if you cannot read other people comments then please no reply to me.

I get how she could be the strongest.

BUT THEY DID A POOR JOB SHOWING IT IN THE ANIME!!!!!

you understand english or not?(its not my native language so apologize if i make my point hard to understand,maybe i am the one that doesnt make sense).

A char that was hyped to be the strongest was not shown so impressive in the show.Wtf does that have to do with anything you say.

And all my speculation is based on ''what we saw from her fight'' get it now?

Sorry if i offended your fav char or show by having different opinion.

It was my fault for quoting you, my comment really was meant for anyone in general. If we're going to talk about the subject of the poor portrayal in the anime, I agree. I'm only really offended when people can't apply valid reasoning, and that was my motive behind my comment. Opinions are fine as long as they are backed up.

Sep 9, 2015 8:08 PM

#59

Ghoultulhu

Offline

Nov 2014

611

The fights in this series aren't well thought. Nashetania did fight chamot and somehow didn't win, while she has the power to make swords form below the opponent. It caught a running Adlet. Fremy could have sniped Chamot from a high place or throw her strongest bombs over and over again .BTW I consider her an unfair opponent because all she does is stand there while her minions fight. Adlet has to prepare against her and use his attained wisdom and be alert all times to fight her. Not fair.

Sep 10, 2015 3:33 AM

#60

Offline

Apr 2013

7960

darboux said:

She can summon as many fiends she wants or there is a limit?For example why didnt she spat out more than one fiend when hans was running towards her?

Can her summons do anything special?I mean can they fight like block attacks and stuff.Against hans not even 1 of them blocked an attack.They just take the hit and splash.
i get what you mean everyone says she is the strongest etc ....and prolly not one of the male warriors could hurt her.But any saint that has a wide area of attack could prolly ''outsmart'' her and get 1 attack through.
Any saint with an ability to hit multiple targets might have a chance against her and the fact that it took just 1 hit against her to loose control of her fiends,who knows maybe she trips and falls during a fight =her dying lol.

While in a RPG her power would be classified as a "summoner" and that would be correct for a game purpose, she technically isn't a summoner but closer of a "beast/monster tamer" if we talk about RPG classes (but a closer comparison will follow below). She creates her pets with what she eats, and can freely alter them when they're living in her stomach, but technically, she doesn't do "invocation". Her pets are ALWAYS HERE, they think by themselves and some of them are far smarter than Chamo (who herself isn't half as dumb as some anime watcher seems to believe), her pets love her as much as she loves her pets and are ready to do their best without hesitating to save her in time of needs. It's a huge difference with a summoner because you CANNOT take her out before she invokes her pets since she doesn't need to do that. As long as their master is conscious (so no sleeping) they will be conscious of danger in their own and react. There is always some of her pets around. In the ground, on the ground (as there as small ones like mouses) , and they are creating a net around chamo of more than hundred of meters, scouting. If you want to attack her, you need to enter Chamo's perimeter first. That's why even Snipping from a high place like fremy tried didn't work, because surprise attacks are ineffective unless it's done by someone she trusts completely.
Furthermore, her pets just don't explode like in the anime, that's just the CG teams reducing costs, as I said before. They're technically stronger than normal fiends, and fiends don't explode like that with just a sword touch lol. and contrary to fiends, they regenerate almost instantly any wound or almost. Having all of them doing that exploding animation and then regenerating from zero is easier than having them just partially wounded and regenerating that wound.

Considering Chamo as a summoner is wrong as I said. Think of her as something close of a hornet nest but far ameliorated. If you get close of those you will be detected and attacked before you can attack it, as the insects will not let you getting close. Those pets as I said are intelligent. They work as an experienced team and they will always move to keep themselves between any danger and their nest/queen. They can do advanced stuff by just working between themselves without having CHamo coordinating them.
Even if you throw in lots of attacks, they will be all blocked as long as one of those still stand, and like I said, they keep standing when being wounded, they don't explode like they do in the anime.
Furthermore, attacks from the ground don't technically work, because Chamo RIDES a giant slug in battle, so there is something bellow her. Furthermore, that slug can heal her wounds with her secretion and stop haemorrhage, too. Also some of her pets have poisonous breaths and the like IIRC, so the attacks are very varied. Worse, she can be "eaten" by one of her pets if needed to be completely protected by all sides in case of urgency, so poison gas and stuff like that thrown at her have very low chance of working on her. The closest pet will eat her and protect her from the poison around the time they can escape the gas.

Also she cannot "lose control" of her pets. If we except the case where she isn't conscious (in which case her pets cannot remain outside of her) her pets aren't "controlled " by her and don't need her to act. They are pets, not summon. And very intelligent pets who will listen to their master's order but will also acts independently without hesitation for the sake of their master every times it's needed.

Example : Chamo summons fiends,some fiends go after nashetania lets say 20 fiends that are close to chamo rush to defend her and nashetania sends 30 blades from above chamo.20 fiends 30 blades if she cant move fast enough to avoid them what gonna happen?The fiends splash for few seconds 1 might get through etc from what we seen why is it so hard....or for example Maura's earthquake move or sth could cause chamo to fall down hurt her head or sth dunno.We get what chars think etc but it was not shown...

In that example,

They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^

To be fair like I said in that battle she was underestimating her two opponents. Even then, they had a very hard time to reach her. And they were two of the strongest humans living. She didn't show you more because she didn't think it was necessary. Even in the LN, she's beaten, because she isn't going all out. If her favourite slug was out that wouldn't have happened for example.
She didn't show you a countermeasure to Nashetania or Mora's power because she wasn't fighting them. Add to that that the anime made a poor job with her power due to how costly it would be to animate it properly, and the result is there.

Moechintai4 said:
The fights in this series aren't well thought. Nashetania did fight chamot and somehow didn't win, while she has the power to make swords form below the opponent. It caught a running Adlet. Fremy could have sniped Chamot from a high place or throw her strongest bombs over and over again .BTW I consider her an unfair opponent because all she does is stand there while her minions fight. Adlet has to prepare against her and use his attained wisdom and be alert all times to fight her. Not fair.

Fremy did that and it didn't work, for obvious reason. Nashetania wouldn't hurt Chamo by doing that. Not even in her dreams and she knows that very well since Mora

So she knows very well how fearsome and unstoppable CHamo's power is.
There is nothing badly written there.

ZefyrisSep 10, 2015 4:08 AM

Sep 10, 2015 6:13 AM

#61

Offline

Jun 2015

162

Zefyris said:

darboux said:

She can summon as many fiends she wants or there is a limit?For example why didnt she spat out more than one fiend when hans was running towards her?

Can her summons do anything special?I mean can they fight like block attacks and stuff.Against hans not even 1 of them blocked an attack.They just take the hit and splash.
i get what you mean everyone says she is the strongest etc ....and prolly not one of the male warriors could hurt her.But any saint that has a wide area of attack could prolly ''outsmart'' her and get 1 attack through.
Any saint with an ability to hit multiple targets might have a chance against her and the fact that it took just 1 hit against her to loose control of her fiends,who knows maybe she trips and falls during a fight =her dying lol.

While in a RPG her power would be classified as a "summoner" and that would be correct for a game purpose, she technically isn't a summoner but closer of a "beast/monster tamer" if we talk about RPG classes (but a closer comparison will follow below). She creates her pets with what she eats, and can freely alter them when they're living in her stomach, but technically, she doesn't do "invocation". Her pets are ALWAYS HERE, they think by themselves and some of them are far smarter than Chamo (who herself isn't half as dumb as some anime watcher seems to believe), her pets love her as much as she loves her pets and are ready to do their best without hesitating to save her in time of needs. It's a huge difference with a summoner because you CANNOT take her out before she invokes her pets since she doesn't need to do that. As long as their master is conscious (so no sleeping) they will be conscious of danger in their own and react. There is always some of her pets around. In the ground, on the ground (as there as small ones like mouses) , and they are creating a net around chamo of more than hundred of meters, scouting. If you want to attack her, you need to enter Chamo's perimeter first. That's why even Snipping from a high place like fremy tried didn't work, because surprise attacks are ineffective unless it's done by someone she trusts completely.
Furthermore, her pets just don't explode like in the anime, that's just the CG teams reducing costs, as I said before. They're technically stronger than normal fiends, and fiends don't explode like that with just a sword touch lol. and contrary to fiends, they regenerate almost instantly any wound or almost. Having all of them doing that exploding animation and then regenerating from zero is easier than having them just partially wounded and regenerating that wound.

Considering Chamo as a summoner is wrong as I said. Think of her as something close of a hornet nest but far ameliorated. If you get close of those you will be detected and attacked before you can attack it, as the insects will not let you getting close. Those pets as I said are intelligent. They work as an experienced team and they will always move to keep themselves between any danger and their nest/queen. They can do advanced stuff by just working between themselves without having CHamo coordinating them.
Even if you throw in lots of attacks, they will be all blocked as long as one of those still stand, and like I said, they keep standing when being wounded, they don't explode like they do in the anime.
Furthermore, attacks from the ground don't technically work, because Chamo RIDES a giant slug in battle, so there is something bellow her. Furthermore, that slug can heal her wounds with her secretion and stop haemorrhage, too. Also some of her pets have poisonous breaths and the like IIRC, so the attacks are very varied. Worse, she can be "eaten" by one of her pets if needed to be completely protected by all sides in case of urgency, so poison gas and stuff like that thrown at her have very low chance of working on her. The closest pet will eat her and protect her from the poison around the time they can escape the gas.

Also she cannot "lose control" of her pets. If we except the case where she isn't conscious (in which case her pets cannot remain outside of her) her pets aren't "controlled " by her and don't need her to act. They are pets, not summon. And very intelligent pets who will listen to their master's order but will also acts independently without hesitation for the sake of their master every times it's needed.

Example : Chamo summons fiends,some fiends go after nashetania lets say 20 fiends that are close to chamo rush to defend her and nashetania sends 30 blades from above chamo.20 fiends 30 blades if she cant move fast enough to avoid them what gonna happen?The fiends splash for few seconds 1 might get through etc from what we seen why is it so hard....or for example Maura's earthquake move or sth could cause chamo to fall down hurt her head or sth dunno.We get what chars think etc but it was not shown...

In that example,

They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^

To be fair like I said in that battle she was underestimating her two opponents. Even then, they had a very hard time to reach her. And they were two of the strongest humans living. She didn't show you more because she didn't think it was necessary. Even in the LN, she's beaten, because she isn't going all out. If her favourite slug was out that wouldn't have happened for example.
She didn't show you a countermeasure to Nashetania or Mora's power because she wasn't fighting them. Add to that that the anime made a poor job with her power due to how costly it would be to animate it properly, and the result is there.

Moechintai4 said:
The fights in this series aren't well thought. Nashetania did fight chamot and somehow didn't win, while she has the power to make swords form below the opponent. It caught a running Adlet. Fremy could have sniped Chamot from a high place or throw her strongest bombs over and over again .BTW I consider her an unfair opponent because all she does is stand there while her minions fight. Adlet has to prepare against her and use his attained wisdom and be alert all times to fight her. Not fair.

Fremy did that and it didn't work, for obvious reason. Nashetania wouldn't hurt Chamo by doing that. Not even in her dreams and she knows that very well since Mora

So she knows very well how fearsome and unstoppable CHamo's power is.
There is nothing badly written there.

well thnx for the info i guess.

Wanted to ask you some spoilers if you could.

Will we get to see another Chamo fight till the end of this anime? (people said this show adapts 1st volume of ln is there any fight there?)A fight where she fights a bit serious?

Also in general all the fiends she eats all look like that?For example if she ate a kinda human looking fiend when she would summon it it would still look like the ones we saw??

Can she eat humans too? Like if a brave dies she can eat him and summon him?lol

darbouxSep 10, 2015 6:28 AM

Sep 10, 2015 6:37 AM

#62

Vious

Offline

Dec 2013

128

darboux said:

Zefyris said:

While in a RPG her power would be classified as a "summoner" and that would be correct for a game purpose, she technically isn't a summoner but closer of a "beast/monster tamer" if we talk about RPG classes (but a closer comparison will follow below). She creates her pets with what she eats, and can freely alter them when they're living in her stomach, but technically, she doesn't do "invocation". Her pets are ALWAYS HERE, they think by themselves and some of them are far smarter than Chamo (who herself isn't half as dumb as some anime watcher seems to believe), her pets love her as much as she loves her pets and are ready to do their best without hesitating to save her in time of needs. It's a huge difference with a summoner because you CANNOT take her out before she invokes her pets since she doesn't need to do that. As long as their master is conscious (so no sleeping) they will be conscious of danger in their own and react. There is always some of her pets around. In the ground, on the ground (as there as small ones like mouses) , and they are creating a net around chamo of more than hundred of meters, scouting. If you want to attack her, you need to enter Chamo's perimeter first. That's why even Snipping from a high place like fremy tried didn't work, because surprise attacks are ineffective unless it's done by someone she trusts completely.
Furthermore, her pets just don't explode like in the anime, that's just the CG teams reducing costs, as I said before. They're technically stronger than normal fiends, and fiends don't explode like that with just a sword touch lol. and contrary to fiends, they regenerate almost instantly any wound or almost. Having all of them doing that exploding animation and then regenerating from zero is easier than having them just partially wounded and regenerating that wound.

Considering Chamo as a summoner is wrong as I said. Think of her as something close of a hornet nest but far ameliorated. If you get close of those you will be detected and attacked before you can attack it, as the insects will not let you getting close. Those pets as I said are intelligent. They work as an experienced team and they will always move to keep themselves between any danger and their nest/queen. They can do advanced stuff by just working between themselves without having CHamo coordinating them.
Even if you throw in lots of attacks, they will be all blocked as long as one of those still stand, and like I said, they keep standing when being wounded, they don't explode like they do in the anime.
Furthermore, attacks from the ground don't technically work, because Chamo RIDES a giant slug in battle, so there is something bellow her. Furthermore, that slug can heal her wounds with her secretion and stop haemorrhage, too. Also some of her pets have poisonous breaths and the like IIRC, so the attacks are very varied. Worse, she can be "eaten" by one of her pets if needed to be completely protected by all sides in case of urgency, so poison gas and stuff like that thrown at her have very low chance of working on her. The closest pet will eat her and protect her from the poison around the time they can escape the gas.

Also she cannot "lose control" of her pets. If we except the case where she isn't conscious (in which case her pets cannot remain outside of her) her pets aren't "controlled " by her and don't need her to act. They are pets, not summon. And very intelligent pets who will listen to their master's order but will also acts independently without hesitation for the sake of their master every times it's needed.

In that example,

To be fair like I said in that battle she was underestimating her two opponents. Even then, they had a very hard time to reach her. And they were two of the strongest humans living. She didn't show you more because she didn't think it was necessary. Even in the LN, she's beaten, because she isn't going all out. If her favourite slug was out that wouldn't have happened for example.
She didn't show you a countermeasure to Nashetania or Mora's power because she wasn't fighting them. Add to that that the anime made a poor job with her power due to how costly it would be to animate it properly, and the result is there.

Fremy did that and it didn't work, for obvious reason. Nashetania wouldn't hurt Chamo by doing that. Not even in her dreams and she knows that very well since Mora

So she knows very well how fearsome and unstoppable CHamo's power is.
There is nothing badly written there.

well thnx for the info i guess.

Wanted to ask you some spoilers if you could.

Will we get to see another Chamo fight till the end of this anime? (people said this show adapts 1st volume of ln is there any fight there?)A fight where she fights a bit serious?

Also in general all the fiends she eats all look like that?For example if she ate a kinda human looking fiend when she would summon it it would still look like the ones we saw??

Can she eat humans too? Like if a brave dies she can eat him and summon him?lol

Actually i'd like to know what is meant by eating exactly.. i mean does she swallow her enemys or does it belong to her abbilty and the swamp she produces just absorbs them.. because that's what i think.. cannot imagine she's actually eating them like fkin instant noodles.. or what

Sep 10, 2015 6:38 AM

#63

BaronVonPwny

Offline

Apr 2012

12

In regards to last comment:

Will we see another Chamo fight this season?

Will we get a fight where she gets serious?

Do all her fiends look like that?

Sep 10, 2015 6:48 AM

#64

Offline

Apr 2013

7960

BaronVonPwny said:

Adding to the third then.

Sep 10, 2015 9:04 AM

#65

Ghoultulhu

Offline

Nov 2014

611

Zefyris said:

darboux said:

She can summon as many fiends she wants or there is a limit?For example why didnt she spat out more than one fiend when hans was running towards her?

Can her summons do anything special?I mean can they fight like block attacks and stuff.Against hans not even 1 of them blocked an attack.They just take the hit and splash.
i get what you mean everyone says she is the strongest etc ....and prolly not one of the male warriors could hurt her.But any saint that has a wide area of attack could prolly ''outsmart'' her and get 1 attack through.
Any saint with an ability to hit multiple targets might have a chance against her and the fact that it took just 1 hit against her to loose control of her fiends,who knows maybe she trips and falls during a fight =her dying lol.

While in a RPG her power would be classified as a "summoner" and that would be correct for a game purpose, she technically isn't a summoner but closer of a "beast/monster tamer" if we talk about RPG classes (but a closer comparison will follow below). She creates her pets with what she eats, and can freely alter them when they're living in her stomach, but technically, she doesn't do "invocation". Her pets are ALWAYS HERE, they think by themselves and some of them are far smarter than Chamo (who herself isn't half as dumb as some anime watcher seems to believe), her pets love her as much as she loves her pets and are ready to do their best without hesitating to save her in time of needs. It's a huge difference with a summoner because you CANNOT take her out before she invokes her pets since she doesn't need to do that. As long as their master is conscious (so no sleeping) they will be conscious of danger in their own and react. There is always some of her pets around. In the ground, on the ground (as there as small ones like mouses) , and they are creating a net around chamo of more than hundred of meters, scouting. If you want to attack her, you need to enter Chamo's perimeter first. That's why even Snipping from a high place like fremy tried didn't work, because surprise attacks are ineffective unless it's done by someone she trusts completely.
Furthermore, her pets just don't explode like in the anime, that's just the CG teams reducing costs, as I said before. They're technically stronger than normal fiends, and fiends don't explode like that with just a sword touch lol. and contrary to fiends, they regenerate almost instantly any wound or almost. Having all of them doing that exploding animation and then regenerating from zero is easier than having them just partially wounded and regenerating that wound.

Considering Chamo as a summoner is wrong as I said. Think of her as something close of a hornet nest but far ameliorated. If you get close of those you will be detected and attacked before you can attack it, as the insects will not let you getting close. Those pets as I said are intelligent. They work as an experienced team and they will always move to keep themselves between any danger and their nest/queen. They can do advanced stuff by just working between themselves without having CHamo coordinating them.
Even if you throw in lots of attacks, they will be all blocked as long as one of those still stand, and like I said, they keep standing when being wounded, they don't explode like they do in the anime.
Furthermore, attacks from the ground don't technically work, because Chamo RIDES a giant slug in battle, so there is something bellow her. Furthermore, that slug can heal her wounds with her secretion and stop haemorrhage, too. Also some of her pets have poisonous breaths and the like IIRC, so the attacks are very varied. Worse, she can be "eaten" by one of her pets if needed to be completely protected by all sides in case of urgency, so poison gas and stuff like that thrown at her have very low chance of working on her. The closest pet will eat her and protect her from the poison around the time they can escape the gas.

Also she cannot "lose control" of her pets. If we except the case where she isn't conscious (in which case her pets cannot remain outside of her) her pets aren't "controlled " by her and don't need her to act. They are pets, not summon. And very intelligent pets who will listen to their master's order but will also acts independently without hesitation for the sake of their master every times it's needed.

Example : Chamo summons fiends,some fiends go after nashetania lets say 20 fiends that are close to chamo rush to defend her and nashetania sends 30 blades from above chamo.20 fiends 30 blades if she cant move fast enough to avoid them what gonna happen?The fiends splash for few seconds 1 might get through etc from what we seen why is it so hard....or for example Maura's earthquake move or sth could cause chamo to fall down hurt her head or sth dunno.We get what chars think etc but it was not shown...

In that example,

They did a poor Job of showing it in the anime!! thats the problem.Imagine if we were shown the Saint of Single flower fighting in the anime .....you expecting to see something extremely impressive etc etc and after you see it you like well ok she strong but still not that much...^^

To be fair like I said in that battle she was underestimating her two opponents. Even then, they had a very hard time to reach her. And they were two of the strongest humans living. She didn't show you more because she didn't think it was necessary. Even in the LN, she's beaten, because she isn't going all out. If her favourite slug was out that wouldn't have happened for example.
She didn't show you a countermeasure to Nashetania or Mora's power because she wasn't fighting them. Add to that that the anime made a poor job with her power due to how costly it would be to animate it properly, and the result is there.

Moechintai4 said:
The fights in this series aren't well thought. Nashetania did fight chamot and somehow didn't win, while she has the power to make swords form below the opponent. It caught a running Adlet. Fremy could have sniped Chamot from a high place or throw her strongest bombs over and over again .BTW I consider her an unfair opponent because all she does is stand there while her minions fight. Adlet has to prepare against her and use his attained wisdom and be alert all times to fight her. Not fair.

Fremy did that and it didn't work, for obvious reason. Nashetania wouldn't hurt Chamo by doing that. Not even in her dreams and she knows that very well since Mora

So she knows very well how fearsome and unstoppable CHamo's power is.
There is nothing badly written there.

I always thought the jyuma had the intelligence of a pet. I didn't see any smarter than chamot, maybe it is shown in volume five or six?

Sep 10, 2015 9:12 AM

#66

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Oct 2011

2479

Seems like people's disdain for Chamot the character is clouding their reasoning. You really think if Fremy shot a gun at her at close range it would kill her? Or that if the princess hurled a bunch of blades at her that she would get sliced up?

Chamot understands the abilities of the others and probably knows what to do in a situation like that. The Adlet win was just a surprise attack that she never thought of because she thought she was protected.

In a 1v1 fight, none of the fighters would last very long.

Sep 10, 2015 11:36 AM

#67

Ghoultulhu

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Nov 2014

611

Gov said:
Seems like people's disdain for Chamot the character is clouding their reasoning. You really think if Fremy shot a gun at her at close range it would kill her? Or that if the princess hurled a bunch of blades at her that she would get sliced up?

Chamot understands the abilities of the others and probably knows what to do in a situation like that. The Adlet win was just a surprise attack that she never thought of because she thought she was protected.

In a 1v1 fight, none of the fighters would last very long.

Of course, I get worked up over her being stronger than Adlet. The ways they attained their powers are very different, and Adlet is more deserving to win in a 1v1.I acted as a white knight, I'm sorry.

GhoultulhuSep 10, 2015 11:54 AM

Sep 10, 2015 3:38 PM

#68

Mathias2001

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May 2014

384

[quote=HandsomeMan]Okay okay we get it...Chamo > Hans /quote]

Fixed

Sep 10, 2015 3:47 PM

#69

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Apr 2013

7960

Moechintai4 said:

Gov said:
Seems like people's disdain for Chamot the character is clouding their reasoning. You really think if Fremy shot a gun at her at close range it would kill her? Or that if the princess hurled a bunch of blades at her that she would get sliced up?

Chamot understands the abilities of the others and probably knows what to do in a situation like that. The Adlet win was just a surprise attack that she never thought of because she thought she was protected.

In a 1v1 fight, none of the fighters would last very long.

Of course, I get worked up over her being stronger than Adlet. The ways they attained their powers are very different, and Adlet is more deserving to win in a 1v1.I acted as a white knight, I'm sorry.

Hah? A white knight? Adlet? Who crash a holy tournament, used underhanded tricks like trapped blade, caltrops, and don't hesitate to use a girl he loves as a hostage? White knight? like, was there ever a MC more far away with his roguish way of thinking than Adlet? (well there was, for sure, but that's besides the point here)
Through all the story so far, that guy has been using absolutely despicable methods again and again to win , white knight, huh...

Sep 10, 2015 4:29 PM

#70

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Nov 2013

2305

Mathias2001 said:

HandsomeMan said:
Okay okay we get it...Chamo > Hans /quote]

Fixed

Fixed? That looks like a broken post to me

HandsomeManSep 10, 2015 4:33 PM

Sep 10, 2015 4:47 PM

#71

Vious

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Dec 2013

128

HandsomeMan said:

Mathias2001 said:

Fixed? That looks like a broken post to me

Sep 11, 2015 1:45 AM

#72

flannan

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Nov 2009

8716

Zefyris said:

Moechintai4 said:

Of course, I get worked up over her being stronger than Adlet. The ways they attained their powers are very different, and Adlet is more deserving to win in a 1v1.I acted as a white knight, I'm sorry.

Hah? A white knight? Adlet? Who crash a holy tournament, used underhanded tricks like trapped blade, caltrops, and don't hesitate to use a girl he loves as a hostage? White knight? like, was there ever a MC more far away with his roguish way of thinking than Adlet? (well there was, for sure, but that's besides the point here)
Through all the story so far, that guy has been using absolutely despicable methods again and again to win , white knight, huh...

Not Adlet. Moechintai4 claimed he (Moechintai4) acted as a white knight defending Adlet, who seemed to need such a defense.

Sep 11, 2015 1:55 AM

#73

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Apr 2013

7960

aahhhh right, I misread it. I don't know why he would be more deserving though...

Sep 11, 2015 7:36 AM

#74

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Jun 2015

162

i know its out of discussion and the guy didnt say adlet was a white knight but to what zefyris said about him been roguish....

Well its kinda subjective but i think he isnt in the slightest.True at the start of the show he was shown like that but in the rest of the show he ended up been the ''Prince on the white horse'' for flammie.

His thinking/intentions are not roguish at all.At the end he turned out to be ''I will protect/risk my life/make wrong decisions for the girl i love'' and also that line ''i will protect everyone friends etc '' was really shounenish cliche tbh.

What he did with taking Flammie hostage to me the way things turned was not roguish because he prolly did it cause he knew if he died there people would go after flammie etc...

A true roguish hero for me was Favaro from bahamut sth dun remember excact name.So in a way you can say Adlet is a ''knight'' but more like a ''knight'' of love or sth lol

Sep 11, 2015 8:01 AM

#75

flannan

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Nov 2009

8716

darboux said:
A true roguish hero for me was Favaro from bahamut sth dun remember excact name.

Favaro from Shingeki no Bahamut. He's like Adlet in a lot of aspects, but isn't driven by a higher purpose like Adlet, making him less likeable (but probably more realistic, down-to-earth and fun).

Sep 11, 2015 8:51 AM

#76

Karshi

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Aug 2012

38

Because she will roflstomp any of the Rokka is a one on one match, unless there is some extra advantage given to that Rokka. The End.

KarshiSep 11, 2015 9:31 AM

Sep 11, 2015 8:51 AM

#77

Sokah

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Jul 2014

805

wilstreak said:
When she:
-is not battle tested (not much experience)
-her ability need long startup time and not very practical (have to vomit)
-is not physically gifted (muscula like Goldov/Maura, Agile like Hans, or even slender like Bunny)
-presumably her ability of summoning low level fiend can be cancelled with wide Area attack like Nachetania's and Maura's

Because the show says so. Congratulations, you've realized a kid's show doesn't have to make any sense. Yes, nothing she has or can do could have stopped Flamie from killing her with a gun. Guns are really really really good at injuring and then finishing off someone.

It is a common trope of kid's shows that super sonic or near super sonic projectiles can be dodged, blocked etc. even though it is physically impossible to see, or react fast enough let alone move your body fast enough.

So despite Flamie being able to put a bullet in her before the sound of the bullet would even reach her, Flamie lost to her because the author thought the kids reading the book/watching the show would like to have a super effective kid able to beat big scary guns that they can identify with.

Of course said super effective kid is a murderous sociopath, but seemingly that is cool to the type of people that can't comprehend just how stupid it is to be able to dodge bullets.

Sep 11, 2015 9:01 AM

#78

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Jun 2015

162

But Bruce lee could catch bullets with his mouth......how do you explain that?

Sep 11, 2015 10:58 AM

#79

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Aug 2015

193

flannan said:

darboux said:
A true roguish hero for me was Favaro from bahamut sth dun remember excact name.

Favaro from Shingeki no Bahamut. He's like Adlet in a lot of aspects, but isn't driven by a higher purpose like Adlet, making him less likeable (but probably more realistic, down-to-earth and fun).

I'd say Favaro's personality, at face-value at least, is a lot more likable than Adlet. They are both rogue characters, but Favaro has a really nuanced personality deviating, from the regular altruistic MC and Adlet has the annoying shtick of "strongest man in the world". This is only what one would see after finishing episode 1 of each respective series of course.
Both of them are very similar, and seemingly unrelated to the bigger story; of course this is a major similarity later on in Rokka's books as well.

Sep 11, 2015 11:56 AM

#80

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Jun 2015

162

Frrrosty said:

flannan said:

Favaro from Shingeki no Bahamut. He's like Adlet in a lot of aspects, but isn't driven by a higher purpose like Adlet, making him less likeable (but probably more realistic, down-to-earth and fun).

I'd say Favaro's personality, at face-value at least, is a lot more likable than Adlet. They are both rogue characters, but Favaro has a really nuanced personality deviating, from the regular altruistic MC and Adlet has the annoying shtick of "strongest man in the world". This is only what one would see after finishing episode 1 of each respective series of course.
Both of them are very similar, and seemingly unrelated to the bigger story; of course this is a major similarity later on in Rokka's books as well.

Imagine favaro in the scene that adlet confesses :
*Flammie points a gun to favaro*
*Favaro thinks to himself,damn man this crazy chick gonna kill me for nothing what i do? oh crap gonna try it anyway*
Favaro: ''believe in me i love you''
Flammie : ''I cannot believe in people anymore why should i believe in you?''
Favaro : ''Flammie look in my eyes %_% do i look like i am lying?''
*Favaro runs for his life as soon as flammie lowers her guard*
XDD

darbouxSep 11, 2015 12:00 PM

Sep 11, 2015 1:35 PM

#81

Temera1re

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Jul 2014

69

Sokah said:

It is a common trope of kid's shows that super sonic or near super sonic projectiles can be dodged, blocked etc. even though it is physically impossible to see, or react fast enough let alone move your body fast enough.

muzzle Velocity of a Musket is around 150/ms. muzzle velocity of 45acp is around 300/ms... modern army (soldiers) stopped using the 45acp caliber for being slow and easy to dodge.

just stop being a jerk.

darboux said:

Frrrosty said:

I'd say Favaro's personality, at face-value at least, is a lot more likable than Adlet. They are both rogue characters, but Favaro has a really nuanced personality deviating, from the regular altruistic MC and Adlet has the annoying shtick of "strongest man in the world". This is only what one would see after finishing episode 1 of each respective series of course.
Both of them are very similar, and seemingly unrelated to the bigger story; of course this is a major similarity later on in Rokka's books as well.

Imagine favaro in the scene that adlet confesses :
*Flammie points a gun to favaro*
*Favaro thinks to himself,damn man this crazy chick gonna kill me for nothing what i do? oh crap gonna try it anyway*
Favaro: ''believe in me i love you''
Flammie : ''I cannot believe in people anymore why should i believe in you?''
Favaro : ''Flammie look in my eyes %_% do i look like i am lying?''
*Favaro runs for his life as soon as flammie lowers her guard*
XDD

Make my day :D

Temera1reSep 11, 2015 1:47 PM

Sep 13, 2015 5:57 AM

#82

kuity

Offline

Sep 2008

463

She's like a necromancer on crack.
Or Kurome from Akame ga Kill, except stronger.

There's two kinds of people you can't win an argument against:
One - Too dumb to tell right from wrong.
Two - Too stubborn to admit they are wrong.

Sep 13, 2015 9:34 AM

#83

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Oct 2011

2479

Here is how ANN rated each of the characters. Chamot is rated highest in fighting skills which I have to agree, Maura in strength and Hans in Speed.

I think Adlet should be B+ to an A- in speed.
Princess should be a B in speed.
Goldov is an A- in fighting skill.

The rest more or less agree with.

ADLET MYER
STRENGTH: C
SPEED: B
FIGHTING SKILL: B+

PRINCESS NACHETANYA
STRENGTH: D
SPEED: B+
FIGHTING SKILL: B-

GOLDOV AUORA
STRENGTH: A
SPEED: B
FIGHTING SKILL: A

FLAMIE SPEEDDRAW
STRENGTH: C
SPEED: A
FIGHTING SKILL: A-

MAURA CHESTER
STRENGTH: A+
SPEED: C
FIGHTING SKILL: B+

CHAMOT ROSSO
STRENGTH: D
SPEED: C
[i]FIGHTING SKILL: A+[i]

HANS HUMPTY
STRENGTH: C+
SPEED: A+
FIGHTING SKILL: A-

GovSep 13, 2015 9:38 AM

Sep 13, 2015 9:53 AM

#84

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Nov 2013

2305

My man Goldov has the highest attributes.
By the way if we include intellect in that, then Chamot gets an F, Adlet gets A- (for not realizing the truth for so long), other characters get high marks in it too (because of spoiler reasons).

Sep 13, 2015 9:56 AM

#85

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Oct 2011

2479

HandsomeMan said:
My man Goldov has the highest attributes.
By the way if we include intellect in that, then Chamot gets an F, Adlet gets A- (for not realizing the truth for so long), other characters get high marks in it too (because of spoiler reasons).

True. Adlet should be an A+ in intelligence imho. He seems the smartest and is vexed in scientific theory.

Sep 13, 2015 9:59 AM

#86

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Aug 2015

193

Gov said:
Here is how ANN rated each of the characters. Chamot is rated highest in fighting skills which I have to agree, Maura in strength and Hans in Speed.

I think Adlet should be B+ to an A- in speed.
Princess should be a B in speed. is an A- in fighting skill.

The rest more or less agree with.

ADLET MYER
STRENGTH: C
SPEED: B
FIGHTING SKILL: B+

PRINCESS NACHETANYA
STRENGTH: D
SPEED: B+
FIGHTING SKILL: B-

GOLDOV AUORA
STRENGTH: A
SPEED: B
FIGHTING SKILL: A

FLAMIE SPEEDDRAW
STRENGTH: C
SPEED: A
FIGHTING SKILL: A-

MAURA CHESTER
STRENGTH: A+
SPEED: C
FIGHTING SKILL: B+

CHAMOT ROSSO
STRENGTH: D
SPEED: C
[i]FIGHTING SKILL: A+[i]

HANS HUMPTY
STRENGTH: C+
SPEED: A+
FIGHTING SKILL: A-

They forgot Luck -

Adlet Mayer: A++

Princess Nachetanya: B+

Flamie Speeddraw: B

Goldov Auora: C+

Maura Chester: D

Chamot Rosso: B-

Hans Humpty: B+

The Luckiest Man in The World is untouchable.

Edit: Surprisingly, the same grades could work for intelligence (maybe Goldov and Hans one grade higher). Yes Maura is lower than Chamot for this season admittedly.

FrrrostySep 13, 2015 10:51 AM

Sep 13, 2015 10:02 AM

#87

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Nov 2013

2305

Gov said:

HandsomeMan said:
My man Goldov has the highest attributes.
By the way if we include intellect in that, then Chamot gets an F, Adlet gets A- (for not realizing the truth for so long), other characters get high marks in it too (because of spoiler reasons).

True. Adlet should be an A+ in intelligence imho. He seems the smartest and is vexed in scientific theory.

He's book smart for sure (probably his master made him study science too, not just the art of survival), but some of these characters are "snake" smart. They might not be book smart, but they know how to pretend and deceive. Even now some of them are playing innocent, so credits to them in that aspect.

Sep 13, 2015 10:06 AM

#88

ViciLockhart

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Aug 2015

228

"Edit: Surprisingly, the same grades could work for intelligence. Yes Maura is lower than Chamot for this season admittedly. " really i don't find Mora that stupid.... also for luck i don't know why Fremy have B yeah we have to tell that from the birth she's very lucky indeed ..

Sep 13, 2015 10:11 AM

#89

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Aug 2015

193

ViciLockhart said:
"Edit: Surprisingly, the same grades could work for intelligence. Yes Maura is lower than Chamot for this season admittedly. " really i don't find Mora that stupid.... also for luck i don't know why Fremy have B yeah we have to tell that from the birth she's very lucky indeed ..

This is obviously opinion-based so we probably won't agree but Maura 'appears' very single-minded just for this first arc. Of course I would have completely different grades for future arcs.

Sep 13, 2015 10:16 AM

#90

ViciLockhart

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Aug 2015

228

Frrrosty said:

ViciLockhart said:
"Edit: Surprisingly, the same grades could work for intelligence. Yes Maura is lower than Chamot for this season admittedly. " really i don't find Mora that stupid.... also for luck i don't know why Fremy have B yeah we have to tell that from the birth she's very lucky indeed ..

This is obviously opinion-based so we probably won't agree but Maura 'appears' very single-minded just for this first arc. Of course I would have completely different grades for future arcs.

yeah you right everything is personal opinion and i don't want to argue with anyone :) ... but i found it funny that ppl call her stupid and so on just because she attacked MC and they beloved Fremy ..If watcher didn't see all Adlet action most of us would think like Mora .. :D

Btw question to you as LN reader after anime end should i start from Volume 2 or start all from the Volume 1 ?

Sep 13, 2015 10:23 AM

#91

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Nov 2013

2305

ViciLockhart said:

Frrrosty said:

This is obviously opinion-based so we probably won't agree but Maura 'appears' very single-minded just for this first arc. Of course I would have completely different grades for future arcs.

yeah you right everything is personal opinion and i don't want to argue with anyone :) ... but i found it funny that ppl call her stupid and so on just because she attacked MC and they beloved Fremy ..If watcher didn't see all Adlet action most of us would think like Mora .. :D

Btw question to you as LN reader after anime end should i start from Volume 2 or start all from the Volume 1 ?

I haven't started reading it, but I would personally start from the first 1. You know how adaptations are, plus you can ease into the writing style (or fan-translation style in this case). LNs are short reads anyway.

Sep 13, 2015 10:44 AM

#92

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Apr 2013

7960

While Rny is adapting very well contrary to usual, I would agree to start with the beginning of volume 1. It's just one volume of standard size. It's a few hours at best.

Sep 13, 2015 11:04 AM

#93

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Oct 2011

2479

I don't get how Goldov is ranked so high. He has a singular weapon and it seems clunky in battle.

Seems like every person accept for Adlet can beat him.

Sep 13, 2015 11:08 AM

#94

Tylaen

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Apr 2015

4824

Gov said:
I don't get how Goldov is ranked so high. He has a singular weapon and it seems clunky in battle.

Seems like every person accept for Adlet can beat him.

It was mentioned by the Princess during episode two that he was capable of beating her In a tournament setting.

Sep 13, 2015 11:09 AM

#95

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Oct 2011

2479

Tylaen said:

Gov said:
I don't get how Goldov is ranked so high. He has a singular weapon and it seems clunky in battle.

Seems like every person accept for Adlet can beat him.

It was mentioned by the Princess during episode two that he was capable of beating her In a tournament setting.

To be honest Goldov is a bad matchup for her. He is fast and like to come in close, so she can't charge up her attack.

Sep 13, 2015 11:19 AM

#96

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Nov 2013

2305

Gov said:
I don't get how Goldov is ranked so high. He has a singular weapon and it seems clunky in battle.

Seems like every person accept for Adlet can beat him.

I dunno, watch the last episode's fight scenes again with Goldov. He is like a berserker with his raw stregth, defense and speed. Plus he wasn't even that serious it seemed, and he was unsure 100% about Aldet being the fake, so he wasn't going all-out. And he is young. A few more years and his body will possess even more strength.

Sep 13, 2015 12:51 PM

#97