Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Movie -Rebellion-
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| Well....holy shit....I don't even...wow.... |
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| My main problem with this movie is that it completely debunks Homura/Mami as an at all possible pairing. I am very sad when OTPs become utterly sunk. But other than that, Homulucifer is a -brilliant- villain. Basically the only yandere I like. |
Dusk252 said: Who in their right mind would even have considered Homura/Mami as a possible pairing at any point since the beginning of the franchise?SappyRomantic said: Why is that, if I might ask? For once, I never once saw how people can consider Homura/Mami an OTP, but if you do, then I fail to see what makes you think something has changed. Is that because of Homura's monologue? She just states what the TV series showed. If anything, she does so showing a little more of sympathy than I would have expected, tbh.My main problem with this movie is that it completely debunks Homura/Mami as an at all possible pairing. |
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Dusk252 said: Yeah I wasn't arguing against you, was just saying :3HaXXspetten said: That's exactly what I said, though. Just saying that if they do, I don't see why they think the movie changes anything.Dusk252 said: Who in their right mind would even have considered Homura/Mami as a possible pairing at any point since the beginning of the franchise?SappyRomantic said: Why is that, if I might ask? For once, I never once saw how people can consider Homura/Mami an OTP, but if you do, then I fail to see what makes you think something has changed. Is that because of Homura's monologue? She just states what the TV series showed. If anything, she does so showing a little more of sympathy than I would have expected, tbh.My main problem with this movie is that it completely debunks Homura/Mami as an at all possible pairing. |
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Azalonozul said: I think the reason Homura imprisoned Godoka was pretty justifed. I don't. |
Dusk252 said: Wonder how this film would've felt if the characters were animated like thatAzalonozul said: Madoka has been caged by Homura. Literately. I love this pic for showing that. |
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Dusk252 said: Yakuri said: Azalonozul said: I think the reason Homura imprisoned Godoka was pretty justifed. No she didn't. Agreed with all the rest you've said. Yukari said: Really good point you have there with Kimi no Gin no Niwa. Nothing to add at all. |
Dusk252 said: Not sure if it would be just bizarre due to the contrast of the designs and content or if the adorableness would just take over completely. I can say the latter is actually a big possibility. xD I dunno, the artstyle is fairly adorable even as it is...... So in other words, had the movie been animated in the style of that image, it would still feel exactly the same.[/notreally] |
| Homura ending the movie like a boss. I'll admit, I hated what she did in this movie, but hey.. I liked the story. I'm not one of those people who will hate an entire story for just the stupidity of one character. Now, time for some Madoka X Homura showdown next season. This better be great :D 10/10 |
alexpte said: All I could do the whole time was scream UROBUCHI ...This wasn't Urobuchi's idea though. It's been stated that the ending Urobuchi originally had in mind was just Madoka taking Homura away to Magical Girl Heaven. Then Shinbo was like "You know, I think we should have an ending that leaves the door open for a sequel..." and the rest is history. |
| Oh, Homura. If there's a sequel, Madoka vs. Homura. |
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| Homura's fight with Mami was awesome to begin with. Then imagine a showdown with Madokami herself. Galaxies will be tossed around. |
julyan04 said: Homura's fight with Mami was awesome to begin with. Then imagine a showdown with Madokami herself. Galaxies will be tossed around. You know, that's actually yet another reason I really don't like the ending to this movie... Namely, that which you suggested seems to be the only direction I can see the series taking after this. And once you've reached that point, there's basically no way to top it, and anything LESS than universe-spanning showdowns of epicness would just seem underwhelming. |
Vegard_Aune said: Maybe, but then again it's Urobuchi we're talking about here, if it's one thing I've learned it's to never take anything for granted :)julyan04 said: Homura's fight with Mami was awesome to begin with. Then imagine a showdown with Madokami herself. Galaxies will be tossed around. You know, that's actually yet another reason I really don't like the ending to this movie... Namely, that which you suggested seems to be the only direction I can see the series taking after this. And once you've reached that point, there's basically no way to top it, and anything LESS than universe-spanning showdowns of epicness would just seem underwhelming. |
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| gotta say...Freakin loved it I understand completely why Homura did what she did. She is indeed not right in the head. But she has now declared war on the Incubators and rewritten the entire universe, all to make a "happy place" for Madoka. iN the process she also gave Kyouko another chance at happiness. Obviously I didn't read every single response, but it seems many seem to forget the crushing blow that Homura has dealt the Incubators. She intends to completely eradicate them. At the same time, she's now become someone whose sole purpose is to keep Madoka from remembering that she's a god, and taking out the "Demons" whatever those things are exactly. And in the process Sayaka was brought back, as well as a new character has entered the fray. In my opinion this was a much better way to run things than the TV series. While I was happy for the empty "happy end" to a point, I still understood how random it was. But this, this really made sense. Homura didn't pull some sort of power from nowhere, she found the next level of a magical girl thanks to the Incubators and their little "experiment". If that had never hapepned, then Homura would have just become a witch and returned to madoka's side, and the INcubators would have had another chance to pull that plan of theirs and maybe figure out what the "Law of Cycles" really entailed. But, nope, they trapped a yandere. As we know, Yanderes can cross dimensions to be with the ones they love, so the Incubators should have realized this was a stupid plan from the start. Ah well. Such is the fate of a being that doesn't lend itself to emotions that well. Anyway, such a great setup for anotehr season that I CANNOT wait for ~~ |
vampko said: In my opinion this was a much better way to run things than the TV series. While I was happy for the empty "happy end" to a point, I still understood how random it was. ...Uh, how was the TV-series a "happy end"? It entailed the main character ceasing to exist as an individual, the other main character being separated from said first main character (who was basically her entire reason to live), the third main character dying, the entire rest of the universe forgetting who Madoka even was, and at the end of the day all she really accomplished through all that sacrifice was making the universe go from thoroughly shitty to sort of a "glass half full" kind of deal. It was a bittersweet ending in every sense of the word. Also, random? They literally spent the entire 12-episode run of the show setting up for it. PMMM the TV-series was basically an ending with 11 episodes of explanation and buildup in front of it. vampko said: But this, this really made sense. Homura didn't pull some sort of power from nowhere, she found the next level of a magical girl thanks to the Incubators and their little "experiment". The next level which we have never gotten even the slightest indication that existed before this point, which she attained through the exact same process that would otherwise have turned her into a witch were it not for Kyubey somehow managing to isolate her Soul Gem from the rest of the universe, including blocking off a being of unlimited cosmic power which he doesn't even know for sure is real or just something Homura made up, who exists outside of time and space, and likewise he somehow managed to make it not turn into a Grief Seed, a process which Kyubey only knows the theory behind because from his point of view it never even existed at all... And this next level somehow makes Homura the by-all-accounts-fairly-mediocre Magical Girl more powerful than the being who had a latent magic potential so great that it was "theoretically impossible", power great enough that a wish that required her to literally be present at every point in time and space where a Soul Gem would be corrupted, was perfectly grantable, and enables her to rewrite all of time and space at whim... Yeah, I still fail to see how this all makes sense BTW. vampko said: Anyway, such a great setup for anotehr season that I CANNOT wait for ~~ This concept they've come up with is literally so ludicrously over-the-top that the momentum is unlikely to be able to sustain itself for more than, oh... four episodes? If even that? And they can't really not give us some sort of clash between Madokami and Devil Homura either, because now that they've got a self-proclaimed devil with the power to rewrite the universe at will, nothing else they could possibly bring in would seem like an even remotely credible threat by comparison. They've basically hit the same problem of the characters' power escalating to a point where there's practically no way to up the scale, that Dragon Ball Z ended up running into. And it only took them about six and a half hours to reach this point. In a way that's actually kind of amazing. Oh, and did I mention that bit where Urobuchi has stated that he considers himself done with the story? Or how the staff has admitted that they had no concrete plans for what would happen after this movie? In other words, that they basically rushed this whole "Devil Homura" story-arc into production before they'd even figured out how it was gonna develop? |
| This is just my theory, I think just as said by vampko she did gain some knowledge and the idea from Kyubey BUT it was Homura's wish which did the actual power because remember at the end of the TV series depending on your pov Homura's wish doesn't actually come true, this is really just the final result of her wish actually coming true and as Madoka became a God , then she had to become something even stronger. It is also important to note that Homura's wish like Madoka is a constant not an instant then gone than say wishing for cake were you get cake but that's it, Homura's wish has no time limit set. And finally also remember who gave Madoka the potential to become a god. |
ElPysCongroo said: This is just my theory, I think just as said by vampko she did gain some knowledge and the idea from Kyubey BUT it was Homura's wish which did the actual power because remember at the end of the TV series depending on your pov Homura's wish doesn't actually come true, this is really just the final result of her wish actually coming true and as Madoka became a God , then she had to become something even stronger. It is also important to note that Homura's wish like Madoka is a constant not an instant then gone than say wishing for cake were you get cake but that's it, Homura's wish has no time limit set. And finally also remember who gave Madoka the potential to become a god. The problem with that is, it assumes that the very laws of physics leave absolutely no possibility for a wish not to be granted... Plus, Homura's wish was "to redo her meeting with Madoka and become someone who could protect her instead of being protected by her". This happened. This happened over and over and over and over and over and over again, actually. There was nothing about keeping her safe forever in there. And also, while Kyubey did initially claim that he could grant any wish, later revelations make it clear that that was just another case of him lying by omission; "I can grant whatever impossible miracle you may desire (provided that you yourself have enough magical potential to actually realize it)." If this weren't the case, why would he in episode 8 make such a big deal about how Madoka could do things other MGs couldn't and how she could easily turn Sayaka back to a human if that was her wish. This in turn implies that others would not be able to have such a wish granted, it was only possible for Madoka because she's Madoka. Where am I going with all this? Homura's wish, as she kept turning time back over and over, became ever-increasingly ungrantable, and by the end of the story, it was literally a wish that could no longer be fulfilled no matter what. Now maybe if Homura had the same amount of unfathomable karmic potential as Madoka did, but one would think that if this were the case, Kyubey would have commented on it. He certainly never held back in pointing out how Madoka had the potential to become the most powerful witch in the history of ever, so if Homura had the same amount of potential due to her time-travelling shenanigans, I think he would have noticed. Homura's time-travelling only made Madoka unfathomably powerful because she kept constantly turning time back specifically to save her. At the same time, her own karmic potential or magical power did not increase; If it would, again, Kyubey would probably have mentioned it. And if her magic had grown over time, which is something that one almost needs to assume for this movie to make any sense at all... somewhere along the line she would have become strong enough to defeat WN. But no, she got completely destroyed just as badly each and every time she fought it, whereas Madoka was able to dispatch of it with more and more ease every time, culminating in the TV-series ending where she was able to avert fighting it alltogether by doing something infinitely more demanding and magic-consuming, before then completely breaking causality and forcing the universe to rewrite itself to accommodate what she just did. This is something that no other MG could possibly have accomplished, and changing this outcome would take someone similarly overpowered... and there was nothing prior to this movie to suggest that Homura has this sort of power. Heck, there was nothing prior to the exact scene in which she did it that suggested that it was possible. And even after the fact, they completely neglected to give any sort of explanation for it. And if one does say that it was indeed all a result of Homura's wish clashing with Madoka's... Well then causality sure does seem to be pretty damn generous considering how oppressive the universe this story is set in, doesn't it? Like, say then that a character were to just make the completely non-specific wish to "survive" with no further specifications. (In this regard I suppose it's a good thing they never revealed the exact wording of Mami's wish.) Would that make said Magical Girl immortal? Or how about if they wished "I want to be a Magical Girl whose Soul Gem will be indestructible and never turn into a Grief Seed"? I would think such a wish would be ungrantable, wouldn't you? Likewise, while "I want to redo my meeting with my friend and protect her from harm" is a perfectly fulfillable wish, when said friend then goes on to ascend to a higher plane of existence, being erased from the very history of the universe and only continuing to exist as a concept... Not so much. The idea that Homura's wish clashing with Madoka's could cause all of this, to me, seems about as plausible as the idea that anyone could make the wish to "Destroy all witches in the past, present and future, in every universe, with my own two hands," and do what Madoka did. And I'm pretty sure they couldn't. |
| Sigh, you know this is one series that never needed a sequel. Now it seems it's going to continue to get milked for all it's worth. Oh well, hopefully it doesn't get too...silly. |
Dusk252 said: Honestly, the theory of the wishes clashing because Homura's had not yet been granted is actually a rather interesting one, and one of the best I've seen around. Oh, it's definitely the most plausible explanation I've heard. I mean, I still don't think it makes sense, but it does make more sense than pretty much anything else I've seen people come up with. |
Leffotra said: 2. We dont know howmany times Homura went back in time. Urobuchi has stated that it was "About a hundred times". So yeah, way more than just what we saw in episode 10. But you know, most of those points seem to bring up more why she did it, rather than how. I have no problem with the development from character-standpoint. I've long since accepted that, while this development casts Homura in a thoroughly unlikable light, it is not out of character for her to do this. My issue is entirely with the fact that there's no clear explanation for how she was able to. And even the ones that you did bring up for how... still seem rather like grasping at straws to me. |
Leffotra said: And the whole post is about the "How", it´s just a lot of text. My point is, Homura went through many horrible events, and if you try to see the world from her point of view, i dont think any person i know whould have the emotional strength and the determination to repeat this tragedy hundred or more times. This alone has to say something about her as a character and a person. ...Which again to me doesn't really say anything about where the power to rewrite the entire universe came from. It just explains that, yeah, she went through an insane amount of crap, desperately trying to hold on to her sanity all the way through, and this movie was basically the point where she finally cracked, so to speak. Leffotra said: It would be nice if you can highlight which parts were looking like "grasping at straws" ? I never speculated outside the events of the show... Hmmm... Kyubey stating that she's an anomaly. I'd say that is more just because, being from another timeline, he has no idea who she is, what her deal is, what her powers are or anything like that. Which is not a situation he's used to facing, for obvious reasons. The shot of her being tied up by the same strings that Madoka was shown attached to... I think that can more just be seen as a metaphor for the exact thing Kyubey was talking about at the time. How she literally had no choice but to continue this impossible fight, despite knowing it was impossible, because she knows that if she actually accepts it she will have lost. I do not see that as an indicator that "Homura = Madoka" in terms of what they could become. Then there's the point of there needing to be a counter-balance to Madoka's providing hope for the universe... http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2676/ggpuellamagimadokamagicr.png Yeah we already had something taking care of that. Again, by the end of the story the universe was still, by all accounts, a pretty shitty place. The only difference was that the MGs no longer end up becoming the very monsters they've been fighting against. |
Dusk252 said: Yes, that is true. It was in the interview, though Urobuchi apparently mentions having had "a breakthrough" upon hearing the idea, which implies he definitely wasn't against it. One can never really trust such statements about the staff's opinions on what they made though. Common business sense would dictate that you never say anything bad about the project you were involved with, because if you do... that might hurt general interest in the product, which in turn would lead to you being considerably less likely to get another job. So we can't really say for sure if Urobuchi really liked the idea or not, because even if he didn't... he would never flat-out say he didn't. That said, I have this distinct feeling that he was none too happy about it. If only because I seem to recall him also saying that he feels that he has now written all he reasonably can for these characters and that the story should pass on to other writers after this... Which could very easily be taken as "I really didn't like what they made me do with my characters here and I have no desire to continue this story." Of course, that could just be my personal bias talking... |
| watched it at the US premiere! Have to say loved the film itself. A lot of mixed feelings over the ending but for me I thought it was a satisfying conclusion to the series as a whole. 9/10 for the movie and for the series 10/10 |
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