Koi Kaze Episode 13 Discussion

waterfallsxo said:
Wow. Just wow.

This show is definitely a hidden gem. I liked the way the issue of incest was handled. Incest is a taboo subject and a lot of anime don't really take seriously or show it a realistic way. This show did that. As creepy as incest is, I had intense emotions while watching this show.

8/10

P.S. I still think that incest is wrong.

ooo333 said:
One of the best animes. 10/10

Love the pacing, the graphics, everything!!!

BUT I HAVE ONE HUGE PROBLEM!!!!!

I look at the parents of the two MC. The dad is average height and a bit chubby and not muscular. The mom is average height and skinny.

So why in the world is the male MC drawn like over 6 feet tall with tons of muscles and looks like he can play american football. Whiile the female MC is drawn like she's barely 5 feet tall and looks much much younger than her age (16). I just dont get why they did that.

basspig said:
Japan. Brother & Sister. Forbidden romance. Incest. I suppose it happens in every country. But the Japanese seem to be good at putting it into a cohesive story with a window into the couple's feelings. As an 'only' child, I cannot imagine having romantic interests in a sibling. Especially with a 12 year difference. A couple might get away with that in New Jersey, but in Japan, 'normal' folks find it repulsive. But the story gives us insight into how the couple feels and raises questions like "what's right and what's wrong?" and "What does it matter if the couple are happy together?" In the case of Koi Kaze, it's not only incest, but because the younger sister is only in first year high school, it would also be considered ephebophilia.
One has to question, why does Nature turn on the reproductive systems at such an early age? Does Nature not intend the species to begin procreation at that time? If so, then is society at fault for interfering with a natural process? Doesn't the conflict of body and society create stress on the young? This series, in a daily living setting, explores these questions. I can't say that any definitive answers are found, but one couple chooses to live "like that". I wonder how many more situations like that, exist in Japan? Some people will hate this series. Others will find it to be a straightforward 'slice of life' anime, with very ordinary people and none of the typical visual jokes that we see commonly in anime. It is a lot like the later chapters in the manga "Usagi Drop", so I have heard, and have been cautioned not to go beyond the TV series if that stuff bothers one's sensibilities. Shocking in some ways, like "Aku no Hana", too.
Oh lord, we've come a long way from "Macross"!

GAOtheAnimeLover said:

Lets get this straight, sexual attraction to mid-late teenage girls is perfectly natural and healthy part of an adult's behavior. Back in the paleolithic, the life span of a human is just 20 years old. Pregnancy lasts 1 year. Consider the high infant and child mortality back then, if humans weren't sexually attracted to another who's under the age of 18, humanity would've been extinct LONG time ago. We survived this long precisely because humans back in the stone age have no morale objections and felt naturally inclined to banged "under age" but post pubescent girls.

As humanity progressed and becomes more "civilized", the rise of society and increasing importance of the family unit led us to self imposed restrictions on the age which relationship can develop. First it was 12, then 13-15 during the middle age, now finally, in modern society, age of consent is raised to a whopping 18 years old and any adult with age difference greater than 3 having carnal knowledge of a teenage minor is to be treated as statutory rape in the eyes of law. Reason? maturity level and age difference render mutual consent to be neared impossible. So keep this in mind high school senior. Thinking about going out with that hot 14 year old freshman? you're gonna be charged with statutory rape if anyone reports you.

Come on... as if just because the clock hit the seconds of your 18th birthday, you are suddenly wise and mature enough for a healthy, non exploitative relationship. puft.

basspig said:



Excellent points. Historically, humans bred at puberty, during the dark and middle ages. And in Japan, a tradition called "Yobai" (creeping) was a coming-of-age annual ceremony where young males were allowed to roam the village and have the girl of their choice by sneaking into their unlocked bedrooms.

Modern society has dumbed people down to the point where we have 40 year olds living in their parents homes. But that's partly an economic problem.

Scientifically, some medical journal observes that certain regions of the human brain are not fully developed before about 18 years, and hence the ability of children to make responsible decisions may be less than that of a biological adult.

But modern society puts these restrictions. And it is considered appalling for an adult male to be attracted to a thin, healthy young female of early teens. But with the increase in obesity and "feminazi" type women, I can understand why men may find teenage girls more attractive than the adult counterpart that may seem more like a Rosie O'Donnell type.

The law is an arbitrary thing, and whether its hours or days, when that clock strikes 18, a relationship between teens changes radically in the eyes of the law. Unfortunate in many ways.

I see a lot of middle age men (50-60-ish) marrying young Filipinos because the Asian girls at 20 or 25 look like American girls at 14. Heck, I've seen some 14 year olds that could pass for 40. Yuck. But for men who can't find American adult women sexually attractive, either because of their self-important and hateful attitude, or because of the fact that they are 100lbs overweight at heading for a life of diabetic care, Asian women are a lifesaver. No bad attitude, usually much less overweight if at all, and old fashioned values.

There must be a reason why puberty sets in when it does. Probably not to torture the young with forbidden affairs, either.. ;-)

lnn8v6 said:
You kids and your morals...

I really really don't know how you kids rate those sicko ecchi series higher than this series. Despite the twofold taboo on this show it is really more realistic than your idiotic ecchi harem crap. This is better than most anime I've seen (except the art) and you don't have to agree but I frankly say I really enjoyed this show.

E-Licious said:
This post is quite lengthy so feel free to skip all the way down to the TLDR section at the bottom for the cliff notes if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing.

Koi Kaze is one of the most remarkable show's I've ever watched in that it has kept me in thought for days about morality and society. When I first watched the show about 9 years ago I was a fresh college grad and while I thought the show itself was great and entertaining, I still thought it was awkward and weird because of the subject matter. Fast forward to present day where a much more open minded and less judgemental me has just watched Koi Kaze again. I still think the show is great and entertaining, but am no longer weirded out by the incest theme. In fact it has prompted me to re-evaluate my personal morals and my view of incest.

Last week if you asked me if incest was wrong I would have answered "Yes" without giving it much thought. Today, if you asked me the same question, I would have to say that "It depends".

After watching the show again I came here to find people discussing the show and the ending. I learned about a phenomenon called "Genetic Sexual Attraction" which makes the story in Koi Kaze much more believeable. A quick google search for GSA returns this wikipedia result:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

In it, it states that: "Genetic sexual attraction (GSA) is sexual attraction between close relatives, such as siblings or half-siblings, a parent and offspring, or first and second cousins, who first meet as adults."

and also "Genetic sexual attraction is presumed to occur as a consequence of genetic relatives meeting as adults, typically as a consequence of adoption. Although this is a rare consequence of adoptive reunions, the large number of adoptive reunions in recent years means that a larger number of people are affected.[5] If a sexual relationship is entered, it is known as incest."

So just by knowing this, it is apparent that our protagonists Koshiro and Nanoka's love for eachother is much more plausible. They are quite literally "screwed" by biology. It is much harder to condemn their actions knowing that they are victims of this phenomenon.

So if they can't control their love for each other is it really so bad if they choose to act upon those feelings? A parallel can be drawn between this and homosexual love in that, in both cases, the people in question cannot choose who they love. Love is not a choice. Love chooses you, not the other way around. Even today there are people who think homosexual love is wrong, but as a society we are starting to accept homosexuality. Incest, on the other hand is still widely unacceptable in just about every culture.

Now while homosexuality has very few dangers that I can think of, incest has a very serious danger in the form of inbreeding. Looking up inbreeding returns the following possible defects in offspring:

"Inbreeding may result in a far higher phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive genes within a population than would normally be expected.[7] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects, including:
Reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability
Increased genetic disorders
Fluctuating facial asymmetry
Lower birth rate
Higher infant mortality
Slower growth rate
Smaller adult size
Loss of immune system function"

Looking at this list it's clear that inbreeding has less than desireable results. And this is the main reason homosexual love doesn't bother me at all, but incestual love does. Homosexual lovers have no offspring problems. Not like they can have offspring with eachother anyway. But an incestual couple will likely reproduce, which is ultimately bad from a scientific standpoint.

This is why the answer to my original question "Is incest wrong?" equals "It depends". If the incestual couple is smart and knows the dangers of inbreeding, and chooses not to reproduce, then I would have to say there's nothing wrong with that. They can't help that they love each other, so we might as well let them love each other without condemning thier actions. However as soon as an incestual couple starts to reproduce I would say that is wrong. It is irresponsible of them to reproduce when it means the child is likely to have serious birth defects.

I would like to end this post by saying again that Koi Kaze is such an amazing show because it has changed the way I think. No longer do I think incest is a great evil as long as the couple refrains from inbreeding. The potential for inbreeding is strong, so I still think people should avoid incest, but it is otherwise tolerable as long as they don't reproduce. They are not hurting anyone after all and they didn't choose to fall in love. Very few shows have had such an effect on my view of the world. Koi Kaze is incredible.





TLDR: Koi Kaze has made me change my stance on incest. Incest in general is wrong because of the dangers of inbreeding. However, if the the incestuous couple knows of the dangers and chooses not to reproduce, then it is tolerable. They are just a couple who can't help but love each other and should be left alone.

AX3M said:
How does this fare compared to Oreimo?

Sisslith said:
she’s your little sister, a teenager who idealises you… Use your brain;

Zettai2Moe said:
　completely different in my opinion, while both do discuss incest they are far from similar. Oreimo is in category of harem if you well they toss in as much comedy at you before the big news breaks out, but Koi kaze is a serious take on incest, no harem no tsundere imouto nothing fancy. just examine the cover graphics and you will see the difference if you're oreimo fan then I don't suggest this one.

AX3M said:
Great points imo! Actually, I asked not because I'm planning to watch this, I asked because I want to know people's thoughts. I've already watched both. And I agree with your points. Oreimo is more like your typical romcom, while Koi Kaze is one that takes itself more seriously.

Zettai2Moe said:

I can't read date, you asked your question 2 yrs ago sorry. However I do like koi kaze a lot just disappointed it wasn't longer. it's a rare one to me, almost everything out there involves harems and boob service which I'm growing tired of. what did you think of the ending? it's little unsatisfying for me bc it doesn't give us any hints of them being together and if their parents condone this.

AX3M said:
Uh, I asked the question just 2-3 days ago. But okay, I like Koi Kaze too because it treats its incest, romance, self-questioning aspects just the way they should be treated (I think). About the ending, well, it's just one of those typical open-ended endings in stories where everything goes back to "normal", the way everything used to be before the first episode began --- they're siblings. This is very similar to Oreimo's ending tbh except that in Oreimo they're "actually" back to being siblings, while here it's open to interpretation. I don't know how I should feel about that... I've rewatched the show at least 2 times before, I think my latest rewatch was two years ago.. I'm not sure.. but.. I think it's for the better I guess? My interpretation would be that they're still "on" in secret, especially with everything that happened in the last episodes. It's like Oreimo, but more serious, and depressing to some extent tbh.

Zettai2Moe said:
Do you have good imoutou shows you'd recommend? I think I need some potions to recover from this somewhat sad ending. I like ones that put emphasis on the story instead of harem, and I don't think I will spend much time on this one. It doesn't have a second season and its manga doesn't get far either. Strangely I liked some harems such as Da Capo and DCSS only the first season before they changed casts, also I liked niji iro Canvas

AX3M said:
I don't really think there's an imouto-love anime that's as story-focused as Koi Kaze. Either they use incest as a plot device rather than story itself or that the siblings are not really blood-related (like step-sister/-brother). And most of them are harem. Still I'd highly recommend you Oreimo though, it's probably the most story-focused imouto anime after Koi Kaze, if you ask me personally. If you want other imouto-focused anime (still not as story-focused as Koi Kaze, nothing beats Koi Kaze imho), feel free to try KimiAru, Kiss x Sis, ImoCho, OniAi, OniSuki, Yosuga no Sora, Boku wa Imouto, Romantica Clock, Oneechan ga Kita. I liked all of these.

Zettai2Moe said:
thanks a bunch. I will definitely take your word for advice. and maybe I didn't make it clear but I don't mind incest or actions (if you know what I mean) just as long they relate to story. ones like High school DXD, shinmai maou no testament, masou gakuen...are boo-boo for me. Heck, I even watch yuri's for hot yuri action. I've seen imouto chouto hen, imoKoi, yosuga, shitsuore, oniZenzen. I used abbreviations that are more of my style. thanks again