Pluto Episode 1 Discussion

no ofc not. The "even" doesn't necessarily mean "x bad" and "y worse". It could mean "overrated" or "not living up to its counterpart" or "this show itself looks good but its counterpart is simply goated" and on and on it goes. That's why i said it's a hasty interpretation. It ultimately depends on the context that the person is speaking in and for my case in case you're missing it by "even Astro Boy 2003 looked better" i meant that Pluto's animation despite having a veteran Maruyama producing it has such careless flaws (the flash and gloss thing), it didn't meet my expectations pure quality-wise, it didn't live up to its predecessor despite the 20 year gap, and it confirmed my doubts before that it's more "flashes" than actual "good animation" yet i see everyone hyping it and how i predicted that even Astro Boy would look better than it (the first time i made this comparison was somewhere in AD a week before it came out) from what the trailers showed me.

Where is "x bad, y worse" in that?

sure it wasn't offensive or anything but this is the 2nd time you've used the "you gotta be joking" thing with me. The first one was in the MT's animation discussion couple months ago. I didn't expect to see you using it again.

hold on didn't you say
you might wanna enlighten me a bit on this.

would you say the battle shounen concept is good period?

no i'm just keeping the standards legit here bcoz you didn't just say "it does well" instead you said
BUT, if you're merely saying "it does well" by that then fine. No issue with that.

well they stick out. That's the error.

oof not the sound. I didn't find it adding anything at all. The soundtrack for example, they exist. They're not bothersome but neither do they evoke any emotions inside me or aesthetically good or whatever. Same thing with the sound fx. And visually speaking, some scene transitions i find too abrupt as if they were done by non-professionals. Then there's the characters having visions. You can look at it but nothing trippy.

yeah i can agree Pluto not being the conventional "dark" at least. But expectedly it does get darker the longer it goes.

Many comments here mention Astro boy.

What is the connection between that and this show?

@TRC_Randy

Usually if you say "Y is even worse than X," it would imply that X itself is also bad.

Similarly, if I said "Y is even better than X," it would imply that X itself must be good. Saying these things any other way would sound odd, even if that's not the intention.

Example: "The new game Skull Island: Rise of Kong is even worse than Superman 64!" = makes sense VS "The new King Kong video game is even worse than Baldur's Gate 3!" = doesn't make sense, even if the statement is technically correct.

Example 2: "Baldur's Gate 3 is even better than Tears of the Kingdom" = makes sense, implying one great game is better than another great game VS "Baldur's Gate 3 is even better than Skull Island: Rise of Kong!" = sounds odd, as people would think most everything is better than Skull Island, so why is being "even better" than it worth mentioning?

I understand what you meant to say.

But commonly, when people say "even" worse, they mean both are bad.

The word even implies it. Which is why I misinterpreted it. but who cares. water under the bridge. it's a stupid misunderstanding it doesn't really matter, like at all



I actually don't even remember that, if I have said something similar months ago too, it's probably just because I use some phrases often I guess. It's the NPC part of my brain lol

but My reaction is purely out of shock. I think mushoku tensei also has extremely great animation, so it would make sense if I said something similar regarding that show too... not that I remember it. I can't even remember what I ate last night.



Sure, There is a trade off that movies have less time to tell a story or develop characters, but get higher budgets for their runtime instead.

So, a tv-show with movie quality visuals, is a particularly high praise, because it has movie quality visuals, AND more time than the movie to tell it's story.

So... I do actually hold to what I said about the "relative" quality not mattering.

That's just my perspective though, I'm not necessary saying that is the objectively right way to look at it.




Yeah, it does it, extremely well.

Extreme is high prasie, but it's not calling it the single best or saying it is the only show that did it that well.

A lot of things do a lot of things extremely well. I can name 10 more shows other than pluto on the spot that also blend CGI extremely well, from death parade, to 86 to attack on titan season 1 or hell even demon slayer.

Extremely well is just that, it doesn't mean the best. If it did mean the best, it would mean only a few exceptional things exists, and I don't believe that. there are countless pieces of media that do things extremely well or better. and even more pieces of media that do everything extremely bad lol



but I think it sticks out in a good way.

An error would be a mistake. this is clearly intentional.

that doesn't mean there aren't arguments for why it would and would not work. it is arguably a negative. but it's not there by mistake, which means it's not an error.



Hard disagree man, It's done by the dude who did the music for jojo, how could you say it's not great?

Pluto's theme specially gives me chills every damn time.



I mean, yeah, but even if that happens it would be a dark story in a bright futuristic world.

I mean cyberpunk edge runners was similar in that regard, and I don't think anyone would say it's bright visuals took away from it's darker moments.

no you shouldn't yet. I asked an important question that you missed


You sure've heard the saying "masterpiece today, trash tomorrow" and in regards to Pluto's blending of CGI with 2d effects and all that being "extremely well", here's the question; how can it be extremely well when numerous other shows before it have already done that?

Especially when you consider the fact that such feat was achieved as early as 2002 (Zoids (1999) is another such show that i forgot to mention so, YEAH) and what's significant about that is it shows just how FAR anime has evolved.

This scene is from SAC episode 2. The show is actually animated in 16:9 aspect ratio but the clip here is condensed to fit old tvs' 4:3 so bear with me.

Now Pluto, doing the same feat in 2023 isn't bad in any way but calling it "extremely well" isn't fair either. Why? Bcoz all it does is maintaining that level of evolution with maybe several improvements. It didn't push towards any new boundary or anything near it. And the other shows you mentioned? Great. That reinforces my argument even more (not sure about Death Parade and KnY tho). Looking back to AoT s1 and 86 as well as Lotgh DNT, i don't think Pluto is any different.

well that intention itself can be a mistake too. "It was a mistake to go with that approach (intention)" is what i'd say.

He also did Ajin, Fugou Keiji and SxF too which all are better than Pluto.

my apologies, which theme again?

I just finished this anime but I always wondered something about this episode, when Gesicht and the female robot thingie were working to find the evidence of the murders, they saw something jumping or flying or whatever but it's blurry and zoomed out so I don't even know what that is, it happened around 24:27 on this episode:



What exactly is it? it was Atom who was flying around, right?

@xZabuzax

You can really tell when something is going to be a masterpiece. The detective part was super interesting already but that second half with North No. 2, wow... The scene where he first recited that song genuinely had me tearing up. The conversation about robots making music was surprisingly relevant in today's times because of all this AI despite the manga being pretty old. North No. 2 seemed like the best homie and all he wanted to do was forget about his past. I loved his lanky design with his cloak and I'm going to be kinda pissed if hes dead though :( Seems like someone is hunting all of the special robots down. I wonder when they're going to go for Detective. I loved his conversation with the killer robot from 8 years ago.

So this is an arc from Astro Boy, right? I wonder how it works so well as a standalone and how much of it was changed. Not to mention how similar the arc is to the one in the original series. Once I'm done with this, I'm going to finally finish Monster and maybe start 20th Century Boys too.

Hmm... Not satisfied with this. And as i expected even the 2003 Astro Boy looked better.

@TRC_Randy NPC comment