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Danpmss said: Hulio said: Watched the old season, read the manga and the VN. And I'm just as lost as you are... Excuse me? Sad backstory "just" like Satoko's? Man. The thing is that Satoko is being a lot more twisted about this, and she's purposefully aiming to kill and use others on her twisted game. There's a reason why people don't see Satoko as sympathetic. Tbh, those people who think Satoko is more in the right or more sympathetic are sick. Why would they execute Tomitake if Takano had her mind changing arc? Wasn't the whole execution her Idea? Besides if the Yamainu is still active on this sort of stuff, then why were they packing up? As if they had given up like they were supposed to before Tokyo changed Takano's mind. Yeah, both were helplessly abused children. At some point that stopped by different reasons, Satoko having some emotional support from friends while Takano not quite, but they are quite similar, Satoko herself said that, even considering that she was considered a curse from her household. She straight stated that weren't from what hold her from keep going (Rika and Friends, but specially Rika), she would be her future pretty much. That goes for ya too, @Si1verR0se, I will try not bloating the discussion with multiple replies referring to a same subject. Anyway, as I addressed, it doesn't matter if they are more sympathetic, affable psychopaths that slowly kill you "with love" are still killing you. Them being more sympathetic doesn't really change their crimes and sick fuckeries (even because Takano herself did several things out of pure cruelty, regardless of her sympathizing story). I'm ever so surprised on how forgiving the cast was to her, especially Rika, and the audience at that. I agree she is a great villain at least, but she is basically a karma houdini in the OG, all things considered. As for Tomitake and 34, I think you are mixing things up chronologically. As far as Gou 24 tells us, Tomitake escaped and compromised the plan much like in Matsuribayashi (calling in the Banken and making the Yamainu shut down the op). If the operation fails, they pack up everything in the clinic and run away (much like what K1 sees during Onidamashi), before it gets compromised to the point of them having to just submit to the Banken and follow their orders, like what ends up happening in that episode. What you are mixing up is Nekodamashi, which comes later than these arcs. In there Takano has a change of heart and call off the op herself, which then also leads Tomitake to call the Banken. Then again, even if they weren't the Yamainu packing up to leave after the failure, those could still be the Banken in Onidamashi ep4 (like ssjokg pointed out above), and Takano and Tomitake just straight run away. But the presence of the Banken on itself would mean Tomitake called them, and that there was the Yamainu op going on at that point. OBJECTION! Takano escaped togehter with Tomitake by stealing a van on Watanagashi festival. It was told(and even shown) in Watadamashi chapter. Again: Takano IS a murderer, but she KNOWS that she doing bad things, SHE have motivaton "To prove that her grandfather was right", SHE KNOWS that she'll probably get killed by the end. She IS redeemable, since she ISN'T A LOOPER, she didn't killed Rika 100+ with KNOWLEDGE of other worlds. She reflected on her actions. Satoko IS a psycho, she killed her friends numberless times, she have seen what Rika have been through. Even more Satoko didn't think that she's doing bad things. She's irredeemable since chandelier drop scene. Don't compare them. It's stupid. |
| Pretty decent episode, despite the repetitiveness. But Gou/Sotsu gore is comical at this point. Jesus. |
Si1verR0se said: OBJECTION! Takano escaped togehter with Tomitake by stealing a van on Watanagashi festival. It was told(and even shown) in Watadamashi chapter. Again: Takano IS a murderer, but she KNOWS that she doing bad things, SHE have motivaton "To prove that her grandfather was right", SHE KNOWS that she'll probably get killed by the end. She IS redeemable, since she ISN'T A LOOPER, she didn't killed Rika 100+ with KNOWLEDGE of other worlds. She reflected on her actions. Satoko IS a psycho, she killed her friends numberless times, she have seen what Rika have been through. Even more Satoko didn't think that she's doing bad things. She's irredeemable since chandelier drop scene. Don't compare them. It's stupid. Takano did as terrible things in EVERY OTHER TIMELINE BEFORE MATSURIBAYASHI for a hundred years straight, she is as rotten as one gets, despite people sympathizing with her background. If Satoko is a psychopath, she is one as well. They are both not (it was a rethorical example), and their motivations will NEVER justify their actions. Satoko is shiny hunting a Rayquaza Hinamizawa (I just love that analogy) in which Rika will submit and she would make it a perfect place for them to be together and happy with everyone (likely with brainwashed into godness people, too). All others are nothing more than saves in which Rayquaza wasn't shiny, and therefore irrelevant to her and not a real reality that she will choose. Her motives are "good" (in the sense of being chaotically towards good in intention), but her ways are clearly insane and inhumane, and I'm willing to bet she is going to break herself with the loops to come. Takano just weren't quite aware of those before (even because she is not exactly close to the looper in question to be influenced as quick as they did in the OG) and got brainwashed into changing her mind because of Satoko's unlimited looping works antiques (which I keep thinking if it is being made on purpose to create a perfect Hinamizawa that Rika won't leave or something). Same as Teppei and Rina, they are irredemable scumbags that just now, after the loops got out of control in sheer amount (I bet Satoko even kept retrying until she got Rena not to wake up while she injected her in the infirmary, since she did it for a damn cards game lol), finally started rethinking their ways, if it wasn't for cosmic manipulation, they would be the same fuckers. If you are going to defend Takano, you may as well defend Satoko, both playing God and pragmatic towards a good ending they want for themselves that will come out of what they are willing to do to achieve it with certainty. The sole reason why Eua is even helping her is because of that afaik. And I bet Eua will bite her in the ass at some point if she gets bored, she talked about a price before. If Satoko herself breaks and can't follow through with her plan, I think she will regret a lot. So yeah, in short, it's not stupid, and that screenshot alone should tell you as much. Try debating that. |
DanpmssJul 9, 2021 3:22 AM
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| Man, switching between Rika hyping up Keiichi and then Keiichi and Rena's fight was just damn cruel, I had to pause when the first switch happened. I didn't know if I should laugh or feel depressed, but all I know is it hit me hard lmao. That was a really great episode, I do agree that we didn't really get any new information, but I guess that wasn't really the point of this arc, it's to show Rena's perspective which I loved. The voice acting for Rena is so fucking good, the episode really nailed the atmosphere for me. Can't believe Rena was actually in Keiichi's house when he was talking to Oishi, I thought he was just hallucinating then, but it makes sense since he didn't really have the hinamizawa syndrome then. Passione really going ham with the blood though lmao, it doesn't really bother me, but I think it's unnecessary, a little sprinkle of blood is good enough. Wataakashi-hen will be really interesting though, since there is a lot of possibilities. Can't wait for the next episode. |
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| People are comparing Takano and Satoko? What a joke. Takano wasn't a looper and as far she was concerned the people she killed were strangers, compared to Satoko who is killing and playing with her friends lies again and again. She's utterly mad ungrateful little shit who is a walking curse who ruins everyone's lives by existing. Satoko is worse in every aspect than Takano and her motives are beyond pitiful. Not that Takano every had my sympathy anyway. |
Devil_SlayerJul 9, 2021 4:15 AM
Danpmss said: Si1verR0se said: OBJECTION! Takano escaped togehter with Tomitake by stealing a van on Watanagashi festival. It was told(and even shown) in Watadamashi chapter. Again: Takano IS a murderer, but she KNOWS that she doing bad things, SHE have motivaton "To prove that her grandfather was right", SHE KNOWS that she'll probably get killed by the end. She IS redeemable, since she ISN'T A LOOPER, she didn't killed Rika 100+ with KNOWLEDGE of other worlds. She reflected on her actions. Satoko IS a psycho, she killed her friends numberless times, she have seen what Rika have been through. Even more Satoko didn't think that she's doing bad things. She's irredeemable since chandelier drop scene. Don't compare them. It's stupid. Takano did as terrible things in EVERY OTHER TIMELINE BEFORE MATSURIBAYASHI for a hundred years straight, she is as rotten as one gets, despite people sympathizing with her background. If Satoko is a psychopath, she is one as well. They are both not (it was a rethorical example), and their motivations will NEVER justify their actions. Satoko is shiny hunting a Rayquaza Hinamizawa (I just love that analogy) in which Rika will submit and she would make it a perfect place for them to be together and happy with everyone (likely with brainwashed into godness people, too). All others are nothing more than saves in which Rayquaza wasn't shiny, and therefore irrelevant to her and not a real reality that she will choose. Her motives are "good" (in the sense of being chaotically towards good in intention), but her ways are clearly insane and inhumane, and I'm willing to bet she is going to break herself with the loops to come. Takano just weren't quite aware of those before (even because she is not exactly close to the looper in question to be influenced as quick as they did in the OG) and got brainwashed into changing her mind because of Satoko's unlimited looping works antiques (which I keep thinking if it is being made on purpose to create a perfect Hinamizawa that Rika won't leave or something). Same as Teppei and Rina, they are irredemable scumbags that just now, after the loops got out of control in sheer amount (I bet Satoko even kept retrying until she got Rena not to wake up while she injected her in the infirmary, since she did it for a damn cards game lol), finally started rethinking their ways, if it wasn't for cosmic manipulation, they would be the same fuckers. If you are going to defend Takano, you may as well defend Satoko, both playing God and pragmatic towards a good ending they want for themselves that will come out of what they are willing to do to achieve it with certainty. The sole reason why Eua is even helping her is because of that afaik. And I bet Eua will bite her in the ass at some point if she gets bored, she talked about a price before. If Satoko herself breaks and can't follow through with her plan, I think she will regret a lot. So yeah, in short, it's not stupid, and that screenshot alone should tell you as much. Try debating that. Three things. 1)Rika and co arent Takano's friends. The villagers arent her friends. No matter how much cruelty she shows towards them, in the end they are strangers and a stepping stone for her plans from the start to finish. The only murders that she commits that I can say "Holy shit why them ?" are Tomitake and Irie, and the latter is mostly a colleague. Satoko on the other hand is supposed to be Rika's best friend as well as friends with Mion, Shion, Rena and Keichi. She even tries to make him her Nii-nii while knowing full well that the fragment is about to be ditched. I wont talk about the rest of the village because most of her life she was shunned, although Rika fixed that. Dont think I forgot Satoshi like she did btw. Satoko is more irredeemable than Takano because she does what she does to the people that were always next to her. And ironically the ones that escape her crimes most of the time are those responsible for both Rika's torture and Satoko abuse:Takano Look at it this way, in Umineko . So even if they were "fine redeemable adults" in the gameboards, that doesnt make them fully good. But we dont care about those noname npcs that may have committed suicide because of that character. Takano was evil. But she showed that she wasnt just that. Satoko in every episode tries to prove to us that she is the worst. 2) Not sure what the point of the pic is. The abused will become the abuser? Yeah sure but Satoko is x times worse that Takano, with x being the number of loops. Takano, any Takano, will always be responsible for the crimes in her fragment. Satoko is responsible for all. 3)Takano was forgiven by Rika who didnt want anyone to die. Her crimes werent ignored she was only allowed to live. And Rika being... altruistic(?) at that moment and not letting her die doesnt mean she gets an "escape from jail" card from "Tokyo" or whoever . It just isnt Rika's job to do anything after that point. |
ssjokgJul 9, 2021 5:48 AM
| what the heck, people comparing satoko and takano redeemable? takano was evil but not this kind of evil. no way to redeem satoko. takano is still likable for me even despite being a villain. |
| Takano didn't wake up one day wanting to kill people, she worked her ass for over 20 years trying to make her grandfather's research come true. In that sense, you could even say she's more admirable than the average person. Obviously what she did to the villagers and Rika's mom is monstrous (Then again, Gou itself doesn't care about Rika's mom, so ???), but I can sympathize that after working her ass off for 20 years she felt like she just couldn't turn back on everything and she was caught in the plot of a political scheme. She's also forced to suicide in every fragment for her actions, so it's not like it even works for her. But ultimately her objective has always been to have her efforts recognized, which is something anyone can sympathize with. Satoko's objective is laterally to mind-break Rika so she doesn't go to a different school. Even her objective is disgusting. |
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| Wait, you telling me Rena's assault scene wasn't exaggerated due to the delirious Keiichi's POV being distorted? Yeah sorry but you don't recover from that, even if all of the stabs missed the vitals (which certainly didn't look like it given the amount of blood) surely you bleed out from that many abdominal stabbing in no time. Rika's suicide also has way too much blood. More blood doesn't necessarily make a scene more terrifying, in this case it makes it look cringeworthy. |
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| I would also like to add that little goblin Satoko has none of the Takano's charismatic evil aura. She doesn't have her mystery, she doesn't have her great design, she doesn't have her motives, she doesn't her her fearsome and her backstory is beyond pitful. Even as a villain she sucks. |
| aaaah this shiver that runs down my spine, i know this feeling. it's the old Higurashi feeling. this episode was also brilliant. but also grusome and tragic. oh Satoko, do you really think you do the right thing? :( edit: damn Rika girl, this is far too much blood xD |
animu007Jul 9, 2021 8:50 AM
| yikes the rika-rena-keiichi scene was painful :( she had so much hope this is turning out to be so much better than part one imo |
Si1verR0se said: Danpmss said: Takano did as terrible things in EVERY OTHER TIMELINE BEFORE MATSURIBAYASHI for a hundred years straight, she is as rotten as one gets, despite people sympathizing with her background. If Satoko is a psychopath, she is one as well. They are both not (it was a rethorical example), and their motivations will NEVER justify their actions. Satoko is shiny hunting a Rayquaza Hinamizawa (I just love that analogy) in which Rika will submit and she would make it a perfect place for them to be together and happy with everyone (likely with brainwashed into godness people, too). All others are nothing more than saves in which Rayquaza wasn't shiny, and therefore irrelevant to her and not a real reality that she will choose. Her motives are "good" (in the sense of being chaotically towards good in intention), but her ways are clearly insane and inhumane, and I'm willing to bet she is going to break herself with the loops to come. Takano just weren't quite aware of those before (even because she is not exactly close to the looper in question to be influenced as quick as they did in the OG) and got brainwashed into changing her mind because of Satoko's unlimited looping works antiques (which I keep thinking if it is being made on purpose to create a perfect Hinamizawa that Rika won't leave or something). Same as Teppei and Rina, they are irredemable scumbags that just now, after the loops got out of control in sheer amount (I bet Satoko even kept retrying until she got Rena not to wake up while she injected her in the infirmary, since she did it for a damn cards game lol), finally started rethinking their ways, if it wasn't for cosmic manipulation, they would be the same fuckers. If you are going to defend Takano, you may as well defend Satoko, both playing God and pragmatic towards a good ending they want for themselves that will come out of what they are willing to do to achieve it with certainty. The sole reason why Eua is even helping her is because of that afaik. And I bet Eua will bite her in the ass at some point if she gets bored, she talked about a price before. If Satoko herself breaks and can't follow through with her plan, I think she will regret a lot. So yeah, in short, it's not stupid, and that screenshot alone should tell you as much. Try debating that. You kidding, right? Takano ISN'T a looper, she isn't aware of other worlds. Takano in every world - different Takano. Satoko in different worlds in Sotsu\Gou - THE SAME Satoko. Stop comparing them, and saying that they're the same. Satoko is 1000 times worser Are you comically missing the point on purpose? IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SHE ISN'T A LOOPER, she still is a irredemable piece of shit. And she IS comparable to Satoko, NOT BECAUSE OF LOOPING, read!!! |
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pupul said: vegeta8639 said: bruh why do u keep talking like the powers and supernatural are coming out of nower.She didnt randomly get the powers,fethering found her and gave her those so she coud see a more entreitaning game.As same as rika ,hanyu had discoverd her and cuz she looked like her dauther she gave her the power like wtf are u talikng about.Ohh and satoko was never sane as her fanboys see her se was mentaly scared and unstable girl .Well first of all I really suggest you just watch the original show if not the much better visual novel instead of this crap but to address your point, Satoko's goal is probably to slowly condition Rika into thinking that her desire to leave Hinamizawa is the reason why she can't escape these tragedies. Then when she abandons it, Satoko would stop fucking things up which would reinforce the belief that this is the will of fate (or whatever higher power) so Rika would just stay in Hinamizawa forever. You might not know this if you haven't seen the original but one of the main rules of their Oyashiro-sama cult is that you must not leave the village and some believe even just wanting to leave is enough to trigger Oyashiro-sama's curse so Rika is already conditioned for this. Really Satoko is just playing God and she wins if she can convince Rika that her enemy is an unstoppable force that she simply has to submit to. And yes Satoko is now one of the worst character both morally and from a writing perspective I've ever seen. In the original story she was more or less normal girl who liked setting traps and kept getting abused by her aunt and uncle. All of these new developments where she's a crazy sadistic psycho with overly convenient time travel powers are completely out of nowhere. Rika could time travel because she's the reincarnation of Oyashiro-sama and the original Oyashiro-sama didn't want her to die. Satoko can time travel because the plot needed a new villain. That's basically it. Satoko absolutely did get the powers randomly. The show just tries to pretty it up by introducing a new character out of nowhere to give her the powers for no particular reason other than she feels like it. Satoko was literally a normal human girl, walks into a shrine, hey here's some magic powers because we need a plot. Trash tier writing. And yea Satoko wasn't completely sane but I don't remember her ever intentionally hurting people other than in (at least perceived) self defense. Now she's just a sadistic selfish cunt, again because the plot needed a new villain. This is the laziest fan fiction tier writing for a sequel I've ever seen in my life. The visuals, voice acting and OST are wasted on this. |
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| yay lets remake the first arc for the third time. I'm more and more convinced Ryu didn't come up with higu and umi plot, it was BT. |
VirtueHunterJul 9, 2021 10:54 AM
ssjokg said: Three things. 1)Rika and co arent Takano's friends. The villagers arent her friends. No matter how much cruelty she shows towards them, in the end they are strangers and a stepping stone for her plans from the start to finish. The only murders that she commits that I can say "Holy shit why them ?" are Tomitake and Irie, and the latter is mostly a colleague. Satoko on the other hand is supposed to be Rika's best friend as well as friends with Mion, Shion, Rena and Keichi. She even tries to make him her Nii-nii while knowing full well that the fragment is about to be ditched. I wont talk about the rest of the village because most of her life she was shunned, although Rika fixed that. Dont think I forgot Satoshi like she did btw. Satoko is more irredeemable than Takano because she does what she does to the people that were always next to her. And ironically the ones that escape her crimes most of the time are those responsible for both Rika's torture and Satoko abuse:Takano Look at it this way, in Umineko . So even if they were "fine redeemable adults" in the gameboards, that doesnt make them fully good. But we dont care about those noname npcs that may have committed suicide because of that character. Takano was evil. But she showed that she wasnt just that. Satoko in every episode tries to prove to us that she is the worst. 2) Not sure what the point of the pic is. The abused will become the abuser? Yeah sure but Satoko is x times worse that Takano, with x being the number of loops. Takano, any Takano, will always be responsible for the crimes in her fragment. Satoko is responsible for all. 3)Takano was forgiven by Rika who didnt want anyone to die. Her crimes werent ignored she was only allowed to live. And Rika being... altruistic(?) at that moment and not letting her die doesnt mean she gets an "escape from jail" card from "Tokyo" or whoever . It just isnt Rika's job to do anything after that point. 1)That's not the point, I'm not comparing them for their backgrounds, I'm comparing them for what they effectively did to achieve their objectives, Takano in every possible fragment Rika had to deal with for a hundred years, and Satoko doing her own crazy shenanigans. They are both irredemable, there's no "more irredemable", irredemable means irredeemable period. They are being pieces of shit with God Syndrome (pun completely intended), Takano for a whole lot of time more than Satoko her not being a looper or not, she is the same until she gets brainwashed into giving up during Nekodamashi. Satoko was not always evil either. Seeing her in the OG series gives you more than enough sympathy points to her case and psychological damage. But nonetheless, both turned into mass killing pieces of shit eventually, to fullfil their egoistic wishes towards someone they hold dear (Rika in a very twisted way, and Hifumi straightforward). Umineko's adults were just flawed people doomed by their own family history, but still trying their best with what they had . I could go and mention a certain crippled character, but said character was beyond helping by their circumstances and failed miserably to do what they thought they would, most of else being fanfics, so even if I were to compare to Takano, it would be difficult to trace what could be irredeemable and not due to how Umineko went with that. 2)Satoko identifies herself with Takano, and can see her as her future if she didn't had Rika by her side, and in part her friends (there's a huge exposition monologue in the VN talking about just how much they are codependent of each other's existent by their side to keep on going, so I don't think the friends matter AS MUCH as her). Funnily enough, that's precisely what happened once they grew distant in Gou, Satoko became the new Takano, except looper version, no remorse for killing anyone, even people close to her, all for her objectives. That's the point of the image. Satoko recognizes herself as possibly going a very fucked up route if it wasn't for Rika&frens. 3)Her crimes were irredeemable in Rika's perspective and the others who are aware of all of what she did in other kakeras. She got away with a slap in the wrist compared everything she did since the story started, mostly because she finally got caught red handed and her plan failed before anyone got hurt. If Rika and the kids are all altruistic to forgive Takano for all of what she did for a 100 years, intending, in cruel fashion and at times sadistically so, enjoying every moment of her gory shenanigans, Satoko isn't too far away. Right now both are pieces of shit (not exactly before growing up, but even Satoko sees the possibility of becoming like Takano herself without Rika) and will continue to be until they get brainwashed into goodness by kakera business (Takano in Neko, which ironically is all on Satoko, the one looping to oblivion). If you are going to defend or attack one, you will have to defend or attack the other as well. Which is why she is probably also gonna be forgiven, even because she IS like a life partner to Rika, power high psycho or not. If you were okay with Takano being forgiven after egositically massacring a village and torturing to death a small child for a hundred years without ever changing, which I'm willing to believe given your perfect 10/10s for Higurashi, don't go complaining when the same thing happen here. Death is cheap for the both of them and they are used to worse pain, and have been in multiple realities to the point of just considering them nothing but another world to die in and go to the next to die again (especially Rika with her VN monologues), Families forgive serial killers within them, pedophiles, scums of the earth in general at times, and their bond is set to canonically be beyond that, at least from Rika's perspective. If you are really trying to argue which one is irredemable for Rika not to forgive, the answer would be none (literally, betrayal be damned, she "got used to her friends turning their backs to her and even killing her because of their insane minds", which is not much different from how insane and instinct driven Satoko is acting with her power high either). If she could let go even Takano of all people, she will likely forgive Satoko as well by the end of this wild ride, no matter how far she goes. She is just that important to her, and she will likely figure it out a way to solve the whole situation once Satoko herself breaks, I guess. Higurashi is all about the happy ending with grown men in a counter-intelligence force falling for traps contructed by an 11 years old and them working effectively, and the help of a little hanyuu ex machina anyway (if she even take part on this, or Eua), you should always expect a happy outcome with some cheesy suspension of disbelief inside..... |
DanpmssJul 9, 2021 11:12 AM
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pupul said: vegeta8639 said: Mate that isn't a random charachter nor is her giving satoko powers random did u read umineko.Do you know the whole witch thing.Ddid u read ciconia.If u did u woud know how all this ties with the grand wtc story my friend.Watch the vid btw.Sry for my bad englishSatoko absolutely did get the powers randomly. The show just tries to pretty it up by introducing a new character out of nowhere to give her the powers for no particular reason other than she feels like it. Satoko was literally a normal human girl, walks into a shrine, hey here's some magic powers because we need a plot. Trash tier writing. And yea Satoko wasn't completely sane but I don't remember her ever intentionally hurting people other than in (at least perceived) self defense. Now she's just a sadistic selfish cunt, again because the plot needed a new villain. This is the laziest fan fiction tier writing for a sequel I've ever seen in my life. The visuals, voice acting and OST are wasted on this. I read Umineko and I know she's actually Featherine or whatever but her appearing in Higurashi just to give a newly sadistic and obsessed Satoko magic powers so she can torture Rika some more because the new season needs a plot is random as FUUUCK. Is Dlanor gonna drop by next and say that Knox's second commandment completely invalidates the entire Higurashi plot at which point a black hole will open and swallow up Hinamizawa? Might as well since it would probably be more interesting than this shit. |
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vegeta8639 said: Ngl if this actually happens, I'd give Sotsu a 10/10Is Dlanor gonna drop by next and say that Knox's second commandment completely invalidates the entire Higurashi plot at which point a black hole will open and swallow up Hinamizawa? Might as well since it would probably be more interesting than this shit. ssjokg said: Fun fact, in Hotarubi no Tomoru Koro ni, Takano literally dies in hell. I guess she got what she deserved one way or another.3)Takano was forgiven by Rika who didnt want anyone to die. Her crimes werent ignored she was only allowed to live. And Rika being... altruistic(?) at that moment and not letting her die doesnt mean she gets an "escape from jail" card from "Tokyo" or whoever . It just isnt Rika's job to do anything after that point. It kinda sucks that Satoko will probably be let off the hook for all the terrible things she has done to Rika. |
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Danpmss said: ssjokg said: Three things. 1)Rika and co arent Takano's friends. The villagers arent her friends. No matter how much cruelty she shows towards them, in the end they are strangers and a stepping stone for her plans from the start to finish. The only murders that she commits that I can say "Holy shit why them ?" are Tomitake and Irie, and the latter is mostly a colleague. Satoko on the other hand is supposed to be Rika's best friend as well as friends with Mion, Shion, Rena and Keichi. She even tries to make him her Nii-nii while knowing full well that the fragment is about to be ditched. I wont talk about the rest of the village because most of her life she was shunned, although Rika fixed that. Dont think I forgot Satoshi like she did btw. Satoko is more irredeemable than Takano because she does what she does to the people that were always next to her. And ironically the ones that escape her crimes most of the time are those responsible for both Rika's torture and Satoko abuse:Takano Look at it this way, in Umineko . So even if they were "fine redeemable adults" in the gameboards, that doesnt make them fully good. But we dont care about those noname npcs that may have committed suicide because of that character. Takano was evil. But she showed that she wasnt just that. Satoko in every episode tries to prove to us that she is the worst. 2) Not sure what the point of the pic is. The abused will become the abuser? Yeah sure but Satoko is x times worse that Takano, with x being the number of loops. Takano, any Takano, will always be responsible for the crimes in her fragment. Satoko is responsible for all. 3)Takano was forgiven by Rika who didnt want anyone to die. Her crimes werent ignored she was only allowed to live. And Rika being... altruistic(?) at that moment and not letting her die doesnt mean she gets an "escape from jail" card from "Tokyo" or whoever . It just isnt Rika's job to do anything after that point. 1)That's not the point, I'm not comparing them for their backgrounds, I'm comparing them for what they effectively did to achieve their objectives, Takano in every possible fragment Rika had to deal with for a hundred years, and Satoko doing her own crazy shenanigans. They are both irredemable, there's no "more irredemable", irredemable means irredeemable period. They are being pieces of shit with God Syndrome (pun completely intended), Takano for a whole lot of time more than Satoko her not being a looper or not, she is the same until she gets brainwashed into giving up during Nekodamashi. Satoko was not always evil either. Seeing her in the OG series gives you more than enough sympathy points to her case and psychological damage. But nonetheless, both turned into mass killing pieces of shit eventually, to fullfil their egoistic wishes towards someone they hold dear (Rika in a very twisted way, and Hifumi straightforward). Umineko's adults were just flawed people doomed by their own family history, but still trying their best with what they had . I could go and mention a certain crippled character, but said character was beyond helping by their circumstances and failed miserably to do what they thought they would, most of else being fanfics, so even if I were to compare to Takano, it would be difficult to trace what could be irredeemable and not due to how Umineko went with that. 2)Satoko identifies herself with Takano, and can see her as her future if she didn't had Rika by her side, and in part her friends (there's a huge exposition monologue in the VN talking about just how much they are codependent of each other's existent by their side to keep on going, so I don't think the friends matter AS MUCH as her). Funnily enough, that's precisely what happened once they grew distant in Gou, Satoko became the new Takano, except looper version, no remorse for killing anyone, even people close to her, all for her objectives. That's the point of the image. Satoko recognizes herself as possibly going a very fucked up route if it wasn't for Rika&frens. 3)Her crimes were irredeemable in Rika's perspective and the others who are aware of all of what she did in other kakeras. She got away with a slap in the wrist compared everything she did since the story started, mostly because she finally got caught red handed and her plan failed before anyone got hurt. If Rika and the kids are all altruistic to forgive Takano for all of what she did for a 100 years, intending, in cruel fashion and at times sadistically so, enjoying every moment of her gory shenanigans, Satoko isn't too far away. Right now both are pieces of shit (not exactly before growing up, but even Satoko sees the possibility of becoming like Takano herself without Rika) and will continue to be until they get brainwashed into goodness by kakera business (Takano in Neko, which ironically is all on Satoko, the one looping to oblivion). If you are going to defend or attack one, you will have to defend or attack the other as well. Which is why she is probably also gonna be forgiven, even because she IS like a life partner to Rika, power high psycho or not. If you were okay with Takano being forgiven after egositically massacring a village and torturing to death a small child for a hundred years without ever changing, which I'm willing to believe given your perfect 10/10s for Higurashi, don't go complaining when the same thing happen here. Death is cheap for the both of them and they are used to worse pain, and have been in multiple realities to the point of just considering them nothing but another world to die in and go to the next to die again (especially Rika with her VN monologues), Families forgive serial killers within them, pedophiles, scums of the earth in general at times, and their bond is set to canonically be beyond that, at least from Rika's perspective. If you are really trying to argue which one is irredemable for Rika not to forgive, the answer would be none (literally, betrayal be damned, she "got used to her friends turning their backs to her and even killing her because of their insane minds", which is not much different from how insane and instinct driven Satoko is acting with her power high either). If she could let go even Takano of all people, she will likely forgive Satoko as well by the end of this wild ride, no matter how far she goes. She is just that important to her, and she will likely figure it out a way to solve the whole situation once Satoko herself breaks, I guess. Higurashi is all about the happy ending with grown men in a counter-intelligence force falling for traps contructed by an 11 years old and them working effectively, and the help of a little hanyuu ex machina anyway (if she even take part on this, or Eua), you should always expect a happy outcome with some cheesy suspension of disbelief inside..... At least Takano was (supposedly) under the influence of L3/L4 Hinamaizawa Syndrome. We do see her getting treated in the VN Epilogue. It's highly likely Satoko isn't under the influence of HS. As a semi-metaphysical existence. And as HS is a extension of Oyashiro-sama's influence it's unlikely she would have it. Isn't the point true? Takano in each world is one Takano. The Satoko in each world in Gou / Sotsu is the same looping Satoko. Rika was passive, but that was after decades worth of loops. You are Really really stretching if you're comparing that to Satoko. How is being passive the same as being malicious. It's one thing to abandon yourself and your friends lives to fates. It's an ENTIRELY different thing to willingly kill them. Your moral compass is seriously out of whack if you say otherwise. ---- Once again. The principle point. Rika = Loops to survive. Satoko = Loops to kill Rika and Make her give up. |
ChargecoulombJul 9, 2021 5:50 PM
Danpmss said: ssjokg said: Three things. 1)Rika and co arent Takano's friends. The villagers arent her friends. No matter how much cruelty she shows towards them, in the end they are strangers and a stepping stone for her plans from the start to finish. The only murders that she commits that I can say "Holy shit why them ?" are Tomitake and Irie, and the latter is mostly a colleague. Satoko on the other hand is supposed to be Rika's best friend as well as friends with Mion, Shion, Rena and Keichi. She even tries to make him her Nii-nii while knowing full well that the fragment is about to be ditched. I wont talk about the rest of the village because most of her life she was shunned, although Rika fixed that. Dont think I forgot Satoshi like she did btw. Satoko is more irredeemable than Takano because she does what she does to the people that were always next to her. And ironically the ones that escape her crimes most of the time are those responsible for both Rika's torture and Satoko abuse:Takano Look at it this way, in Umineko . So even if they were "fine redeemable adults" in the gameboards, that doesnt make them fully good. But we dont care about those noname npcs that may have committed suicide because of that character. Takano was evil. But she showed that she wasnt just that. Satoko in every episode tries to prove to us that she is the worst. 2) Not sure what the point of the pic is. The abused will become the abuser? Yeah sure but Satoko is x times worse that Takano, with x being the number of loops. Takano, any Takano, will always be responsible for the crimes in her fragment. Satoko is responsible for all. 3)Takano was forgiven by Rika who didnt want anyone to die. Her crimes werent ignored she was only allowed to live. And Rika being... altruistic(?) at that moment and not letting her die doesnt mean she gets an "escape from jail" card from "Tokyo" or whoever . It just isnt Rika's job to do anything after that point. 1)That's not the point, I'm not comparing them for their backgrounds, I'm comparing them for what they effectively did to achieve their objectives, Takano in every possible fragment Rika had to deal with for a hundred years, and Satoko doing her own crazy shenanigans. They are both irredemable, there's no "more irredemable", irredemable means irredeemable period. They are being pieces of shit with God Syndrome (pun completely intended), Takano for a whole lot of time more than Satoko her not being a looper or not, she is the same until she gets brainwashed into giving up during Nekodamashi. Satoko was not always evil either. Seeing her in the OG series gives you more than enough sympathy points to her case and psychological damage. But nonetheless, both turned into mass killing pieces of shit eventually, to fullfil their egoistic wishes towards someone they hold dear (Rika in a very twisted way, and Hifumi straightforward). Umineko's adults were just flawed people doomed by their own family history, but still trying their best with what they had . I could go and mention a certain crippled character, but said character was beyond helping by their circumstances and failed miserably to do what they thought they would, most of else being fanfics, so even if I were to compare to Takano, it would be difficult to trace what could be irredeemable and not due to how Umineko went with that. 2)Satoko identifies herself with Takano, and can see her as her future if she didn't had Rika by her side, and in part her friends (there's a huge exposition monologue in the VN talking about just how much they are codependent of each other's existent by their side to keep on going, so I don't think the friends matter AS MUCH as her). Funnily enough, that's precisely what happened once they grew distant in Gou, Satoko became the new Takano, except looper version, no remorse for killing anyone, even people close to her, all for her objectives. That's the point of the image. Satoko recognizes herself as possibly going a very fucked up route if it wasn't for Rika&frens. 3)Her crimes were irredeemable in Rika's perspective and the others who are aware of all of what she did in other kakeras. She got away with a slap in the wrist compared everything she did since the story started, mostly because she finally got caught red handed and her plan failed before anyone got hurt. If Rika and the kids are all altruistic to forgive Takano for all of what she did for a 100 years, intending, in cruel fashion and at times sadistically so, enjoying every moment of her gory shenanigans, Satoko isn't too far away. Right now both are pieces of shit (not exactly before growing up, but even Satoko sees the possibility of becoming like Takano herself without Rika) and will continue to be until they get brainwashed into goodness by kakera business (Takano in Neko, which ironically is all on Satoko, the one looping to oblivion). If you are going to defend or attack one, you will have to defend or attack the other as well. Which is why she is probably also gonna be forgiven, even because she IS like a life partner to Rika, power high psycho or not. If you were okay with Takano being forgiven after egositically massacring a village and torturing to death a small child for a hundred years without ever changing, which I'm willing to believe given your perfect 10/10s for Higurashi, don't go complaining when the same thing happen here. Death is cheap for the both of them and they are used to worse pain, and have been in multiple realities to the point of just considering them nothing but another world to die in and go to the next to die again (especially Rika with her VN monologues), Families forgive serial killers within them, pedophiles, scums of the earth in general at times, and their bond is set to canonically be beyond that, at least from Rika's perspective. If you are really trying to argue which one is irredemable for Rika not to forgive, the answer would be none (literally, betrayal be damned, she "got used to her friends turning their backs to her and even killing her because of their insane minds", which is not much different from how insane and instinct driven Satoko is acting with her power high either). If she could let go even Takano of all people, she will likely forgive Satoko as well by the end of this wild ride, no matter how far she goes. She is just that important to her, and she will likely figure it out a way to solve the whole situation once Satoko herself breaks, I guess. Higurashi is all about the happy ending with grown men in a counter-intelligence force falling for traps contructed by an 11 years old and them working effectively, and the help of a little hanyuu ex machina anyway (if she even take part on this, or Eua), you should always expect a happy outcome with some cheesy suspension of disbelief inside..... You are ignoring context. It matters a lot(to us a viewers) if Takano was a looper, it matters who she murdered and also how she felt. And just like how they look matters to the characters , how they look to us matters as well. Rika has forgiven her, that doesnt mean that I or others will just forget her actions. I cant forgive her, but I can accept that others did. Rika may do it again with Satoko. But there is a difference here. Takano was her enemy but she was also an outsider who she barely knew. Satoko is her best friend, the person everyone tried to save...and now she is playing with their lives for laughs. How exactly I am supposed to accept that she will forgive her. So yes a character can be more redeemable or irredeemable. Satoko so far is worse in every way because of who she is to Rika and the rest. And in the end a happy ending isnt the outcome. Gou is proof. The ending of Matsuri/Kai is just the end of an arc and Rika can be thrown back into loop on the whim of some character for some bullshit reason. |
| I don't know why this arc even existed, half of the scenes were from Gou and the others are things we already knew or can guess easily. It can possibly be the worst arc in all of Higu just because how pointless and uninteresting it was and how it fucked Rena's character (just give her this 2 mins flashback and make her say "gotta work harder" x9999 times yeah this's her character, but we have time for Rika's dance for the 3524525th time and the Usoda scene again). Rika is still stupid and doesn't do anything about Takano(she still thinks that she's evil until Nekodamashi, but i'm assuming maybe she's doing something or killed her somehow and we still don't know) and the "fight" was really that bad and silly, no hallucinations no anything interesting. From the trailer it looks like Wataakashi-hen will be just as bad or maybe just a little bit better, it's sad considering it's a Mion PoV arc and I don't think we got an arc like that before. I think R07 stopped knowing how to write after Rose Guns Days, I just hope Tatariakashi-hen will be good cuz I don't have any hope for Wata. |
Tsukumo_YuumaJul 9, 2021 1:59 PM
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ssjokg said: I mean... yeah they could be?Hulio said: weren't those the Banken? Besides if the Yamainu is still active on this sort of stuff, then why were they packing up? As if they had given up like they were supposed to before Tokyo changed Takano's mind. But to me they look more like Yamainu, which would also make more sense context & time-wise. If it's Banken, aren't they awfully early? Danpmss said: Even if they were in a broader sense similar, it doesn't mean they are exactly comparable. One could say that Satoko didn't exactly have it that bad and what she suffered wasn't nearly at the same levels than what Takano did.Yeah, both were helplessly abused children. At some point that stopped by different reasons, Satoko having some emotional support from friends while Takano not quite, but they are quite similar, Satoko herself said that, even considering that she was considered a curse from her household. She straight stated that weren't from what hold her from keep going (Rika and Friends, but specially Rika), she would be her future pretty much. Also Satoko saying that Takano would be her future is irrelevant, it's Satoko's point of view, it doesn't make them the same. For all it's worth it could just be Satoko's Arrogance saying that. Or perhaps we're just misinterpreting what she actually tried to say. What you are mixing up is Nekodamashi, which comes later than these arcs. In there Takano has a change of heart and call off the op herself, which then also leads Tomitake to call the Banken. No, as you are saying Nekodamashi comes later than these arcs, it comes later than Takano's change of mind which happened in the 24th episode, it is a result of that.Besides how could the drug just be gone when Satoko only took one of them. Danpmss said: The other timelines don't matter, Takano has nothing to do with the other timelines.Takano did as terrible things in EVERY OTHER TIMELINE BEFORE MATSURIBAYASHI for a hundred years straight, she is as rotten as one gets, despite people sympathizing with her background. If Satoko is a psychopath, she is one as well. They are both not (it was a rethorical example), and their motivations will NEVER justify their actions. Takano's kill count so far is 1-2 depending on how many of Rika's parents you count on it. GHD never happened. And if Takano is changing her mind, she will never order it. All the atrocities we've witnessed only happened on other fragments and they are the result of the same progress in life. You can watch a guy A killing guy B on the street and rewind it as many times as you want, it won't make it any worse. Satoko however, instead of rewinding, hops in the past herself to kill again and again. They are very.. very different. If you had time rewind skills, and some drug addict came and killed your family all over again as you try to prevent it, it won't make you a hero but a murderer killing an innocent man if you morbidly stop him before he can do anything. Danpmss said: Takano studied to kill.1)That's not the point, I'm not comparing them for their backgrounds, I'm comparing them for what they effectively did to achieve their objectives Satoko kills to not study. 3)Her crimes were irredeemable in Rika's perspective and the others who are aware of all of what she did in other kakeras. She got away with a slap in the wrist compared everything she did since the story started, mostly because she finally got caught red handed and her plan failed before anyone got hurt. Yes, the punishments for Mass Murder and planning a Mass Murder are different. |
         Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
| I really wonder how this whole thing will end. obviously Satoko will get destroyed at the end of this when Karama hit, but then what? Unless you make shit up like she was under the influence of a syndrome this entire time there is really no redeeming her. If any of her older finds out what she did they will stomp her to death, I legit want Shion to get her hands on her again and give her mother of all trauma. |
| R07 has no idea how blood works. It's so hard to take seriously when now we know the keichi rena confrontation was real and that he survived those many stabbings, and then Rika just splashing blood everywhere. This goes beyond regular anime blood tropes. |
Alfonse said: It's not R07s decision probably, he only wrote the main script so its Passione's decision.R07 has no idea how blood works. It's so hard to take seriously when now we know the keichi rena confrontation was real and that he survived those many stabbings, and then Rika just splashing blood everywhere. This goes beyond regular anime blood tropes. |
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PinkShibaInu said: Considering the Gou manga have a very different direction in nearly everything, I believe the anime is Passione's responsibility while R07 is just writing the script. Then again, it's not unheard of that the manga of WTC stuff ended up better than the anime so...DarkIllKuroi said: It's not R07s decision probably, he only wrote the main script so its Passione's decision. Didn't he say in an interview during Gou's run that he was basically overseeing everything though? So whatever Passione did is just as much on him. He wanted this show after all. |
PinkShibaInu said: LockeGran said: Considering the Gou manga have a very different direction in nearly everything, I believe the anime is Passione's responsibility while R07 is just writing the script. Then again, it's not unheard of that the manga of WTC stuff ended up better than the anime so... Well that could always be possible. I guess it makes more sense seeing as DEEN didn't meet his expectations in the end at all, so this could be the same situation. I'm sure most people could easily agree the manga are by far always better than the anime, Gou included. Perhaps they're even the definitive way to experience Higurashi to many. I don't like Gou at all but the manga feels superior enough it's bearable. I put up with the anime just waiting for the manga to conclude. It is unbelievable how many times better Tataridmashi's end is in the manga. |
| saw the wall clock head bang vs knife stabs again. lol so Rena did do that stare into the room.. creepy. |
| She really did get killed by an alarm clock.. I thought someone killed her after that. |
|
| Its really nice to see the guesses/theories in every suspicious scenes to be true back in gou. Rena and Satoko being suspicious, well Rena is given since she still did the same back in OG Higurashi 2006. But seeing the behind the scenes of Satoko's perspective feels satisfying. Looking forward to the next arc answers. Though, I hate how over bloody the scenes are. |
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| Wow that was a lot of blood at the end I guess we gonna see more revelation about what happened at Gou (how Satoko keeps interfering) and then eventually the gun scene, can't wait for it |
DarkIllKuroi said: She really did get killed by an alarm clock.. I thought someone killed her after that. That part is weird but what's even more weirder is Keichii got stabbed MULTIPLE TIMES (at around I guess the chest area, I'm not sure) with a kitchen knife. How the hell did he survived that ??? |
Si1verR0se said: Anyone still gonna defend it? I mean, there's too little new scenes for "Answer arcs". 11 episodes will be nearly the same as in Gou... Not to mention, the whole episode with Keichi vs Rena IS true. There were no hallucinations as some defenders were saying. I call it bullshit, he nearly died after one stab from Shion in Watanagashi\Meakashi and survived only because ambulance was called immediately, but he survived 30+ stabs from Rena even thoug ambulance was not that fast. What a shitstorm. Anyway waiting for 4th arc, since Wataakashi and Tatariakashi would be almost the same boring shit, because no one at Passione read VN thus leading to them not knowing what is the core of Higurashi Resident sleeper mode: on If you don’t like it, then just stop watching it. It’s not that hard. No need to yell at people who enjoy the show. :/ |
Sosbrigade_123 said: Si1verR0se said: Anyone still gonna defend it? I mean, there's too little new scenes for "Answer arcs". 11 episodes will be nearly the same as in Gou... Not to mention, the whole episode with Keichi vs Rena IS true. There were no hallucinations as some defenders were saying. I call it bullshit, he nearly died after one stab from Shion in Watanagashi\Meakashi and survived only because ambulance was called immediately, but he survived 30+ stabs from Rena even thoug ambulance was not that fast. What a shitstorm. Anyway waiting for 4th arc, since Wataakashi and Tatariakashi would be almost the same boring shit, because no one at Passione read VN thus leading to them not knowing what is the core of Higurashi Resident sleeper mode: on If you don’t like it, then just stop watching it. It’s not that hard. No need to yell at people who enjoy the show. :/ you can keep watching something you don't like and still express your opinion. i am still watching sotsu after rating gou 1. and im gonna comment on new ep every week. i loved original higurashi, and while i hate the new series, i still wanna see it til the end. |
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