jesuspiggi said: Objurgo said: Usually male main characters get hate if they have stereotypically 'female' traits... Wow, do I sense internalized misogyny?I whole-fully disagree. Like who? People hate the cowardly MCs undestandibly. And the ones who are dense as fuck, I.E most harem MCs |
ObjurgoMay 8, 2015 12:22 AM
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| Careful distinction must be made when using the term "female MC". It can refer to two things: 1. the most important character of a story, who is female 2. the second most important character of a story, who is female, but the most important character is male Shinoa falls into the second category--the female deuteragonist to a male protagonist. These characters are received very differently than female protagonists in their own right, because the deuteragonist is generally expected to complement the protagonist. Take a few of the criticisms that TragicRomance alleges female MCs always get in Post #97: If the heroine is kind and sweet, "wth she is useless and boring." Tohru Honda from Fruits Basket is the example of the all-loving heroine in anime. She is quite well loved for it, and readers admire her for her persistent optimism and kindness in spite of adversity. She shows depth later, but it was not until well after first impressions have been established--the build upon her kind and sweet base rather than replace it. Other examples include Kobato from Kobato, Sheeta from Castle in the Sky, Hana from Wolf Children, Sachiko from With the Light. She is a little bossy and tsuntsun, "I will hate her unless she turns dere (in which case, she is automatically the best girl)" This is a very rare criticism when the female is the protagonist, especially since a certain degree of bossiness almost always exist in shoujo stories. Mild cases of tsundere, such as Nike from The World Is Still Beautiful, Tsukushi from Boys Over Flowers, and and Yukino from Kare Kano are appreciated for their multifaceted characterization. Where tsun is a character trait among many, it is simply taken at face value--as a part of the character. Haru from My Little Monster and Mai from My-Hime (not a shoujo) are examples who fall into this category. When a female protagonist is criticized for being tsun, it's because it is over the top and makes the character one dimensional, not because she is a little bossy. Only the extreme cases like Hikari from Special A and Misaki from Maid-Sama gets this criticism. |
| The way she teases Yuu is why I like her really. Tokoya said: Wut....She's best girl |
| I'll admit, she's funny in the manga but I actually have come to like her more in the anime. She's a shit stirrer like myself, that's probably why I love her. When she ditches Yu on the road later in the manga is LOL. |
| that loli bitch vampire is more annoying. only seeing her face could annoy me the most. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| How can you hate her, she's adorable, caring and playful? |
SakurasouBusters said: How can you hate her, she's adorable, caring and playful? They just want another boring notice me senpai girl with big boobs. I though most people would like her considering they want something different but no they prefer the overused stuff. |
Objurgo said: Yeah, this person has no idea what the fuck they're talking about.TragicRomance said: I admit male characters get hate too, but not as much as female ones... Whatever. I whole-fully disagree. I mean, how many people are like, "EW IS THIS SHOW A YAOI????" simply because of the fact that it dares to have more than one important male character. |
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Red_Keys said: Objurgo said: Yeah, this person has no idea what the fuck they're talking about.I whole-fully disagree. I mean, how many people are like, "EW IS THIS SHOW A YAOI????" simply because of the fact that it dares to have more than one important male character. lmao, this entire post is so wrong. Those people shouting that aren't shouting that because they hate men (lol, where did you even get that idea?), they're shouting it because they're homophobes. It's not really that hard to understand. Look at all the 900 million shows with basically nothing but male characters that are adored universally. How blind to the truth you gotta be to wanna disprove an entirely true statement and deny sexism exists that you'll make up a bunch of stuff about how some obvious homophobia is some sort of man hate? I'll be nice though and explain this to you, since you're either very in denial or someone has been feeding you some hella bull on what's actually going on here. First of all you've gotta look into why people thought this was a yaoi. That's pretty much because Yoichi acts in a cowardly way that is perceived to be feminine. He's not manly/tough/anything someone'd expect a man to be in the context of the stereotypes that society tells them men should be. He also clings to Yuu more than once, in a way that comes across both as something a damsel in distress would do, which is again a "female" role in the eyes of society, and that comes across as romantic. He's between his legs, rubbing against him, clinging onto him tightly... Yeah. Damsels in distress are also usually love interests in stories even despite this, meaning Yoichi took a love interest role in a lot of people's eyes even without these close scenes, hence their first reaction is yaoi, especially since yaoi is an incredibly common user of these tropes even without putting straight romance into the picture. Look, for example, at Okane Ga Nai - a small, cowardly, feminine man has to be saved by a dark haired hero. They then become love interests. Similar points come up with Mika, a young doe-eyed boy with fair hair (both being traits associated with women) that offers himself up to a man (in a way that can easily be deemed as sexual - vampire bites in general are often seen as sexual acts, which I'm sure you'd know if you've seen basically any vampire media ever), is later seen as a damsel to Yuu that has to be saved (when his arm is cut off and he's stabbed by Ferid), and that later expresses a large amount of desire to be with Yuu and that let's his thoughts be utterly dominated by Yuu. These are all very gay and generally homoerotic tropes in action and some people don't want this gay "tainting" their anime because they're straight up homophobes. At no point did any of this go to hating men. If it went to hating any gender, the fuckton of feminine tropes pretty clearly indicates it'd be women anyway, which quickly debunks everything you've said so far. There's also the fact that plenty of male characters that aren't in these "yaoi" (specifically more uke) roles get tons of love and adoration. Guren, Ferid, Yuu, that pink haired guy that looks like Tsuki from Haikyuu!!, I've seen all of them receive multitudes of praise, including male characters we've barely seen and that barely had lines. If people hated there being "more than one male character", why does everyone love these ones? Yeah, I thought so. Just because some people criticise poor traits (or often just feminine traits) of male characters doesn't mean they're poor discriminated against souls. It means you've been paying too much attention to homophobes, which is of course any attention at all. |
| Well, she occasionally swallows... |
| Oh lord. straggy said: If you can't see the link between homophobia (homophobia against men specifically) and sexism against men, you're already a lost cause.lmao, this entire post is so wrong. Those people shouting that aren't shouting that because they hate men (lol, where did you even get that idea?), they're shouting it because they're homophobes. It's not really that hard to understand. Absolutely mind boggling. straggy said: Straight off the bat you're full of shit.Look at all the 900 million shows with basically nothing but male characters that are adored universally. No such show exists. straggy said: What?How blind to the truth you gotta be to wanna disprove an entirely true statement and deny sexism exists that you'll make up a bunch of stuff about how some obvious homophobia is some sort of man hate? I'll be nice though and explain this to you, since you're either very in denial or someone has been feeding you some hella bull on what's actually going on here. Oh god no, are you one of the "you can't be sexist against men!" morons? Please... no.. straggy said: "People hate it when men step out of their allowed cages and act in ways that aren't stereotypically masculine. OH wait, but that has nothing to do with men. Nope nothing at all. No, it's actually all about WOMEN."First of all you've gotta look into why people thought this was a yaoi. That's pretty much because Yoichi acts in a cowardly way that is perceived to be feminine. He's not manly/tough/anything someone'd expect a man to be in the context of the stereotypes that society tells them men should be. He also clings to Yuu more than once, in a way that comes across both as something a damsel in distress would do, which is again a "female" role in the eyes of society, and that comes across as romantic. He's between his legs, rubbing against him, clinging onto him tightly... Yeah. Damsels in distress are also usually love interests in stories even despite this, meaning Yoichi took a love interest role in a lot of people's eyes even without these close scenes, hence their first reaction is yaoi, especially since yaoi is an incredibly common user of these tropes even without putting straight romance into the picture. Look, for example, at Okane Ga Nai - a small, cowardly, feminine man has to be saved by a dark haired hero. They then become love interests. Similar points come up with Mika, a young doe-eyed boy with fair hair (both being traits associated with women) that offers himself up to a man (in a way that can easily be deemed as sexual - vampire bites in general are often seen as sexual acts, which I'm sure you'd know if you've seen basically any vampire media ever), is later seen as a damsel to Yuu that has to be saved (when his arm is cut off and he's stabbed by Ferid), and that later expresses a large amount of desire to be with Yuu and that let's his thoughts be utterly dominated by Yuu. These are all very gay and generally homoerotic tropes in action and some people don't want this gay "tainting" their anime because they're straight up homophobes. At no point did any of this go to hating men. If it went to hating any gender, the fuckton of feminine tropes pretty clearly indicates it'd be women anyway, which quickly debunks everything you've said so far. Fuck off. I'm done reading your shit. |
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| She felt too forced to me. But She's a ok character though. |
smelldemon said: SakurasouBusters said: How can you hate her, she's adorable, caring and playful? They just want another boring notice me senpai girl with big boobs. I though most people would like her considering they want something different but no they prefer the overused stuff. She is the only reason that keeps me watching this show (ok, art too) |
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
rsc-pl said: smelldemon said: They just want another boring notice me senpai girl with big boobs. I though most people would like her considering they want something different but no they prefer the overused stuff. She is the only reason that keeps me watching this show (ok, art too) ^This + story seems interesting for me which made me look up the manga. Her character is at least new to me (fresh one) which made me adore her since ep.1 I am sick already of the loli type though > Hestia I am looking at you. |
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Red_Keys said: Objurgo said: Yeah, this person has no idea what the fuck they're talking about.I whole-fully disagree. I mean, how many people are like, "EW IS THIS SHOW A YAOI????" simply because of the fact that it dares to have more than one important male character. I know what I'm talking about. Btw I wasn't talking about the genre, I was talking about the characters themselves. When people hate yaoi, most just don't like the genre itself. I was talking in general when I made that point. And yes, People do find it harder to like female characters. They lose interest in them comparatively quicker. for example - if there's a guy who's arrogant and proud (not necessarily bad. just cocky), most would call him arrogant, a few will say he's a jerk etc. But when it comes to female character with the same amount of attitude, she will get called a bitch way more often. Not very fair. MAL top 10 is filled with male charas, not a single female chara to be seen. The first girl we see is Gasai Yuno and she is at 12th position right now. There are onlu 17 (correct me if I'm wrong) girls among the top 50 and most are in the lower range. It's a fact that people are always biased to cool male characters as compared to cool female characters, they tend to gain fans a lot quicker. Suppose there's a show with about 30000-50000 views If a girl is cool and is well-written, she might get like 1000 favs at best. Now, if there was a guy in its place, he would get 2000 favs. Men are favored as compared to women. Sexism does exist, denying it would be wrong. PS - I am no homophobe, I support lgbt rights. |
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| There are currently 15 posts out of 120 in this thread saying negative things about her character, and that's not counting the same people posting multiple times. Coincidentally, there are also 15 posts saying that she is specifically the best character in the show, often worded in a way so that the male characters are cast in a negative light (e.g., "she's the only one who doesn't suck"). And that's not counting generally positive comments about her, no, those are just the ones who specify that she's the best thing about this show. Please. Now, I could go back and count the number of posts talking about how bad the male characters are (even though those are completely off topic), but honestly I don't feel like reading through 120 posts again. TragicRomance said: Can you give an example?And yes, People do find it harder to like female characters. They lose interest in them comparatively quicker. for example - if there's a guy who's arrogant and proud (not necessarily bad. just cocky), most would call him arrogant, a few will say he's a jerk etc. But when it comes to female character with the same amount of attitude, she will get called a bitch way more often. Not very fair. TragicRomance said: This would maybe be valid if people were only allowed to have one favorite character.MAL top 10 is filled with male charas, not a single female chara to be seen. The first girl we see is Gasai Yuno and she is at 12th position right now. There are onlu 17 (correct me if I'm wrong) girls among the top 50 and most are in the lower range. It's a fact that people are always biased to cool male characters as compared to cool female characters, they tend to gain fans a lot quicker. Suppose there's a show with about 30000-50000 views If a girl is cool and is well-written, she might get like 1000 favs at best. Now, if there was a guy in its place, he would get 2000 favs. Men are favored as compared to women. Say I have 10 favorite characters: 9 girls, and 1 guy. Another person has 10 favorite characters: 9 girls, and 1 guy. Now, lets say that no girls overlap (i.e. there are 18 separate female characters), they each have 1 favorite. But both have the same male character in their favorites. Bam, he shoots to the top of the list because he has 2 favorites, and all the other characters only have 1. The characters in the top 10 are all from super popular shounen shows. The fact that they're all male shows us nothing except for the traits that people generally find desirable in a male character, and also that popular shows are popular. TragicRomance said: I'd like you to quote where anybody even implied this.Sexism does exist, denying it would be wrong. |
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| Eh, she's just boring, like the rest of the show. In my opinion it's just her voice actor that agitates me, even after half a season it puzzling how she sounds so off. |
| Why do people have such bad taste? Anime isn't subjective anymore. |
| If current MC just disappeared and she took his place -- the story will only turn to better. A wonderful character indeed. |
Red_Keys said: TragicRomance said: I'd like you to quote where anybody even implied this.Sexism does exist, denying it would be wrong. sexism is everywhere, even when it isn't. |
| She's best girl. |
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| Purple hair girl is the best character of the show. |
| Big Order (TV):great anime or greatest anime? |
| She's the only character I don't wanna strangle. But still pretty close tho |
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| Shinoa just gets better and better. OP, you're crazy. |
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| really? shinoa is literally the only character who's bearable. she's the only reason why i haven't dropped this show. |
| what are you saying op? NihonFalcom said: She's best girl. |
| ...I think all the Female in this anime suck, then again this anime is clearly for Female audience |
| Nonsense, she's voiced by Saori Hayami and we all know she can make any character awesome. |
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TragicRomance said: Red_Keys said: Yeah, this person has no idea what the fuck they're talking about. I mean, how many people are like, "EW IS THIS SHOW A YAOI????" simply because of the fact that it dares to have more than one important male character. I know what I'm talking about. Btw I wasn't talking about the genre, I was talking about the characters themselves. When people hate yaoi, most just don't like the genre itself. I was talking in general when I made that point. And yes, People do find it harder to like female characters. They lose interest in them comparatively quicker. for example - if there's a guy who's arrogant and proud (not necessarily bad. just cocky), most would call him arrogant, a few will say he's a jerk etc. But when it comes to female character with the same amount of attitude, she will get called a bitch way more often. Not very fair. MAL top 10 is filled with male charas, not a single female chara to be seen. The first girl we see is Gasai Yuno and she is at 12th position right now. There are onlu 17 (correct me if I'm wrong) girls among the top 50 and most are in the lower range. It's a fact that people are always biased to cool male characters as compared to cool female characters, they tend to gain fans a lot quicker. Suppose there's a show with about 30000-50000 views If a girl is cool and is well-written, she might get like 1000 favs at best. Now, if there was a guy in its place, he would get 2000 favs. Men are favored as compared to women. Sexism does exist, denying it would be wrong. PS - I am no homophobe, I support lgbt rights. Stop saying things without backing anything up properly. "Female MCs are harder to like" You say on a forum where the majority of DPs are of females and there are arguments on who 'best girl' is. "All the top characters are male" You say about the MCs that all belong to the most popular anime out in the world at this time. "People do find it harder to like female characters. They lose interest in them comparatively quicker." Where is this comparison you speak of? I haven't seen it you certainly didn't link one for me to read. Every time I looks at episode discussion forums, for example, Danmachi. Everyone talks about Hestia's stupid string, or Owari no seraph, where everyone talks about 'copy-paste' scythe girl. You seem to just want there to be something wrong just for the sake of portraying yourself as the protector of what I assume you think to be the 'little guy.'. er.. 'Girl. PS - Stating that you're not a homophobe is like the current day version of saying "I don't hate black people, I have a black friend" :P |
ObjurgoMay 18, 2015 5:15 AM
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| Unbelievable but Shinoa became one of my favourite animegirl. I hope her character won't change and I REALLY hope there won't be any romantic thing between Yu and her because they don't have the chemistry at all. But they could be the best friends ever. |
Risu-nee said: Unbelievable but Shinoa became one of my favourite animegirl. I hope her character won't change and I REALLY hope there won't be any romantic thing between Yu and her because they don't have the chemistry at all. But they could be the best friends ever. Hahaha, NOPE |
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| Not understanding the Shinoa praise. Nor do I see how she's unique. Her supposedly funny/trollish nature has been done with female character before her existence. The thing is.. She's not funny. The creators try too hard to make her come across as likable and funny yet she's immature and cringeworthy. Not to mention she hasn't done anything useful since the show started. The tsundere got more depth and action than her in one episode. Shinoa is like Holo the wise wolf except one is well written and actually funny and the other is not |
TheGrandSage23 said: Not understanding the Shinoa praise. Nor do I see how she's unique. Her supposedly funny/trollish nature has been done with female character before her existence. The thing is.. She's not funny. The creators try too hard to make her come across as likable and funny yet she's immature and cringeworthy. Not to mention she hasn't done anything useful since the show started. The tsundere got more depth and action than her in one episode. Shinoa is like Holo the wise wolf except one is well written and actually funny and the other is not I find her aggravating. And she's the squad leader now. Starting shit is not a good quality for a leader. Especially if you want your subordinates to take you seriously. |
| She really annoying . Gladly our mc doesn't show to love her . She made me wanna puke. |
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| Tbh, all the characters of the show blow cock majorly. There are only characters that are less annoying. |
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| Male mc is more annoying though. |
| save all the cute girls from ntr manga |
robis798 said: Tbh, all the characters of the show blow cock majorly. There are only characters that are less annoying. not as much cock as you on a typical workday evening. |
| She's fine.Better than those tsunderes. |
robis798 said: Tbh, all the characters of the show blow cock majorly. There are only characters that are less annoying. |
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| But, she's the best character :v |
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| At first I didn't like her at all. Now she's my fav character after Mika. Now I really DO NOT like the blondie girl. |
| I don't really mind Shinoa but I kind of prefer Mitsuba for Yuu. I know this won't happen, though and that Shinoa will most probably be Yuu's love interest but I'm hoping. No matter how obsessed Yuu is with Mika, I don't see this show going the BL route. Oh, forgot to mention that I kind of like the idea of Mika/Shinoa. |
HatsumiShinogu said: I don't really mind Shinoa but I kind of prefer Mitsuba for Yuu. I know this won't happen, though and that Shinoa will most probably be Yuu's love interest but I'm hoping. No matter how obsessed Yuu is with Mika, I don't see this show going the BL route. Oh, forgot to mention that I kind of like the idea of Mika/Shinoa. I agree,I find it impossible to see the BL route happen,but a platonic relationship I can see a little bit. Mika and Yuu's relationship is not necessarly romantic,but is for sure something. I also like Mika/Shinoa in a weird wayI'd like to see more moments with them together. |
fst said: robis798 said: Tbh, all the characters of the show blow cock majorly. There are only characters that are less annoying. not as much cock as you on a typical workday evening. What I do in real life does not concern you. :x |
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MorteTorment said: Ok guys, he gave ZERO reasons for disliking her. This is something that a troll ends up doing, and you guys fell for it. Boy, you really set us straight. |
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| She's my favorite character in the show but she does have a certain aura of arrogance about her, I'll give you guys that, whoever said it. However, I don't hate every arrogant character so I'll let that pass. Being arrogant doesn't always classify a character as sucking from my point of view (as a character or as a fighter, but of course some arrogant characters end up sucking at fighting to teach them a lesson). I didn't even realize she was the main female character until a couple episodes later based on how she's not like how they normally behave, but it's not a law that the female main character must have in a certain archetype. |
Important_NobodyMay 23, 2015 8:51 PM
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| I think i like her character, mischief, tease MC but deep and incistive sometimes. Definitely she will be MC interest if you read Manga :v although all MC cares now is about kill vampire :v |
Naruto, SAO, SnO, Golden Time brings me to anime and manga |
Titans20 said: Mettie7 said: But, she's the best character :v How? If the best answer is that she's funny then that's pretty sad. As I stated before she needs: 1) character or not to be a comic relief character 2) actually do something 3) not be annoying at the wrong times. Similar problems I had with Bolin from LOK but he got better If this chick is supposed to be a leader then have her try to be one We know more about the tsundere than her and got more action out of her in one episode than Shinoa in 7. I want to like the character but she doesn't do anything but try and be funny. The cast maybe generic but at least the anime tries to get more out of the main cast(Yuu Yoichi Mika and Mitsuba) as of this moment Shinoa is just....there You pretty much hit the nail on the head.. The majority who likes her is pretty much because she's comic relief.. That barely fits the atmosphere and comes across as a Bolin type character except he had growth and depth to him in later seasons.. From a storyline/plot perspective she does indeed suck as she's pretty much the cheeky cheerleader on the sidelines who does nothing but troll. Its not arrogance whatsoever. It's just the fact she's not really funny and the way it's set up in the anime it forces it down our throats to the point it gets unbearable. People say she's the only character that doesn't suck but never give valid reasons as to why. The other characters are at least given some sort of insight about them. We see what they are what they go through and what they want. Cliche sure but I take something over nothing. As it stands Mika and Yoichi are the characters I take interest in.. Shinoa doesn't stand out at all. She's just.....there And to some people I might seem like I'm bashing her but it could be some are overhyping her. I haven't seen anything in her I haven't seen in numerous female characters. She has a sense of humor and a somewhat trollish nature. That's nothing new especially since numerous female characters share those characteristics. As I said before if Mitsuba was getting more action and insight to why she is the way she is in one episode compared to Shinoa who we know nothing about nor does absolutely nothing except try too hard at being "funny and cute" thats pathetic writing. Worse when she's supposed to be a main character. And if she's only there to be a potential love interest then how in the world is she the best character? She has none of her own |
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