Heion Sedai no Idaten-tachi Episode 8 Discussion

Mjhagnnous said:
Gil the new born idaten, but its pretty confusing why does she have 2 appearances maybe I missed something or they'll explain it next episode? however great episode.

AbelNhom said:
All of the fights look on point. And I guess we only have 3 demons alive. And one new Idaten has been born.
The anime has go further than the manga(the one Cool-kyou Shinja illustrated)at this point, but pretty sure it still haven’t caught to the web manga(the one that illustrated by Amahara himself)yet. Hype to see how it will go.

Vindicater said:


There should be 9 right?

The three led by Miku and then then the three children of Brandy and their chosen daemon friends.

Clas1ck said:
What? Mahou is Rin's grandfather? I need explanations 0.0

Ariahs0235 said:
what if Hayato and the others are the same situation as the nun?

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
Demon lord, those 3 who escaped, and the queen's 3 children remain.

Yeah, I feel bad for demons, they never had a winning chance.

Some people seem to be annoyed by the nun, on different websites. Calling her retarded for feeling empathy for the enemy. I feel no such resentment towards her. Idaten are heartless killing-machines. Just because you can easily kill your enemy, doesn't mean you should. Heck, even the demon Emperor showed concern towards a human who was a victim of his nazi-empire. Meanwhile, Idaten basically kill for sport. Thousands of humans are killed indiscriminately, obliterated by Rin, even though no demon poses real threat to her whatsoever.

I'd say, Idaten can go to hell!

Judgment526 said:


It was explained in the episode that a newborn Idaten takes on the name, personality, and appearance of the person whose desire for salvation is the strongest in the moment of its birth.

So yeah, there are two Gils now, one human and one Idaten. I wonder how they would react to each other if they ever met, lol

AbelNhom said:
All of the fights look on point. And I guess we only have 3 demons alive. And one new Idaten has been born.
The anime has go further than the manga(the one Cool-kyou Shinja illustrated)at this point, but pretty sure it still haven’t caught to the web manga(the one that illustrated by Amahara himself)yet. Hype to see how it will go.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
Demon lord, those 3 who escaped, and the queen's 3 children remain.

Yeah, I feel bad for demons, they never had a winning chance.

Some people seem to be annoyed by the nun, on different websites. Calling her retarded for feeling empathy for the enemy. I feel no such resentment towards her. Idaten are heartless killing-machines. Just because you can easily kill your enemy, doesn't mean you should. Heck, even the demon Emperor showed concern towards a human who was a victim of his nazi-empire. Meanwhile, Idaten basically kill for sport. Thousands of humans are killed indiscriminately, obliterated by Rin, even though no demon poses real threat to her whatsoever.

I'd say, Idaten can go to hell!

Clas1ck said:
What? Mahou is Rin's grandfather? I need explanations 0.0

Yea...the Idaten can go to hell and NOT the demons who murder, enslave and rape humans right? Oh yea...I should feel so bad for the demons whose sole purposes in this world are to be a threat to humanity, whom also actively exploit them!

People were right to be annoyed with the nun for several reasons. Instead of being thankful first and foremost for having her life saved by one of the gods she literally worships, she found it more important to feel "empathy" for a demon who wanted to kill her for killing her sake, and slap one of the gods she worships.

This brings me to her hypocrisy. She's so mad that the Idaten "casually" ended another life right? Does she realize that that demon would've done the same fucking thing to her? Not only that, but Prontea made a fantastic point. Would she have the same opinion had Prontea struggled and fought the demon and barely win the fight? Keep in mind the end result is the same, except the Idaten would've taken some damage and probably almost died. She would find that to be more "morally just" despite the being who won is now injured, unlike with what happened in reality. This is proven by how she held no resentment towards Hayato despite the fact Hayato couldn't care less if she lived or not, but because he almost died fighting the Emperor, in her eyes it was okay what he did. This is the height of hypocrisy. She thinks her petty morals are more important than her own damn life.

Idaten aren't "heartless killing machines either". Idaten literally only exist to purge the world of the threat of demons. They literally do this based on instinct because it's the will of the humans. Don't forget, that they manifest because of the cries of humanity. They don't "kill for sport". They're apathetic at worst. Sure they don't care about what happens to a few humans, but it's much better than demons, who literally only exist to destroy them.

Don't even get me started on the Emperor showing "empathy" on his deathbed. Where was this "empathy" when his kind were hunting down humans, enslaving the women and literally raping them non-stop.

The demons are just as bad as the humans they allow to literally go around mass raping people...arguably even worse since they enable it.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@SkyhighCFC
Lol, don't be so dramatic. Just because I say "Idaten can go to hell" doesn't mean I have to support the opposite side, in this case - demons ffs.
You're wrong here. Nun obviously worshipped her own version of god. The emperor also mentioned this to her that the "gods" are different from who she thinks they are. It's obvious that she considered god as a merciful being, so, even though she was saved by a "god", she was likely shocked to discover how these "gods" behave. Idaten casually killing demons is not what she expected the gods would do.
I think she will give own answers to this in the next episode. But, yet again nun simply can't believe gods can be that merciless. She's not surprised that gods are OP, but I don't think her version of god included a brat who gives 0 shits if humans die in a crossfire of his duel. Her showing empathy towards the emperor is no surprise to me at all. People who devote themselves to fate are not usually vengeful and mad to begin with. As I mentioned in my original comment, Emperor is indirectly responsible for the nun's rape, but personally he chose not to endanger her during the fight with Idaten. You can't pretend that that doesn't matter - Even the emperor says this "He didn't finish me off, he simply wanted to win the fight". Demon showed EMPATHY similar to a human, while all Hayato cared about was winning the fight - like some anti-demon robot. Is it that hard to imagine why Nun wouldn't care about robo-Hayato and care about the emperor instead? Hayato may be a god in a sense that he fights demons, but nun basically has to be thankful that he wasn't accidentally killed by him or by Rin's casual swordplay.

I think you're just biased against demons. First of all I'll start with admitting that NOT ALL Idaten are hertless killing machines. Paula is likely not hertless, and Ysley "rehabilitates" demons instead of simply killing them FOR SPORT like Prontea does; Hayato is also more sattissfied by victory, rather than a kill. You can call Idaten's rampage "instinct" if you so desire.
Also, Idaten, or should I say Rin, killed more than just "a few" humans while she slashed the city with her sword.
I also failed to see how demons literally exist to destroy humans. They did manipulate and exploit them, and were planning on conquering the world, but saying they want to destroy humans is far fetched. Once again, I'm not justifying demons by saying this.

You make it sound like an evil leader or any criminal is incapable of doing anything good once in a while. Emperor may be responsible for countless atrocities (and it's yet to be determined by the show whether he WAS responsible for anything or not. Demon lord or the queen could've been in charge, while the emperor could've been more like a figure-head, like Japanese Emperor of ww2 - in other words, he wasn't REALLY in charge.), but in that particular moment he didn't choose the EASIEST way, and INTENTIONALLY avoided attacks that would endanger the prisoners and the nun. PERSONALLY nun has no reason to hate the emperor. He may have been a leader of the country whose soldiers raped her, but PERSONALLY he did nothing else but spare her life, even though he totally didn't have to as an "evil demon". That action has to amount to something. Don't forget, for a religious person to see a demon who cares, and a god who doesn't, must be a world-shattering experience that likely influenced the slap she gave to Prontea later. Nun starts to believe that DEMONS CAN BE REDEEMED, though she didn't say this to Prontea.
Again, not going to disagree with demons being bad, but...
HECK, the emperor didn't even press the NUKE BUTTON, remember??? And he didn't do it despite realizing that the war was lost. Meanwhile, Rin casually "nukes" parts of the city without even knowing if she'll hit demons with those attacks or not. If that's not "heartless killing machine" attitude, I don't know what is. Therefor, Idaten can go to hell lol. What a miserable existence...

CaptainLelouch84 said:
Interesting show so far but it really needs better exposition and a 2nd season to fully explain the idaten, the demons, the demon lord and the humans in this world. Unfortunately surpassing the source material already I don't hold much hope of this. Hopefully it won't have a rushed ending and time skips to avoid answering questions or telling the audience what's the deal or what's going on. Gil Idaten will probably not have enough time in 3 episode to change much of anything, the apathetic all powerful Gods Idaten who don't really connect with humans like Eternals in Marvel or the evil demons who want to use humans for their own ills but because they're much closer to humans to traditional demons or Idatens, they have taken their traits and clearly show concern or feelings for humans at times like the emperor. Also will we ever see the origins for Hyatato, Ysley, Prontea, Paula and Rin after Gil's idaten was born? We'll see I guess.

But I fear with more time needed to unpack this show, it won't complete that mission in 3 episodes or get a 2nd season for it.

- I mean considering you were so sympathetic towards the demons and seemingly so opposed to the Idaten can you blame me for assuming that?

- Ok so let's assume you're correct that she thought her god would be different. Cool. Did she not still receive the salvation she asked for? Assuming she believed in a different god, she should still be more thankful than anything else because from her perspective, she should be seeing it as her god providing her indirect salvation, meaning her prayers were answered.

Instead what we saw was a knee-jerk reaction from her because of her self-righteousness.

You're wrong about her not caring for Hayato btw. In the manga she showed an active concern for Hayato's well-being despite the fact he explicitly told her that he didn't give a shit whether she died or not. Do you see the hypocrisy here?

- I'm not even sure we're watching the same show here.

"Biased against demons"? I'm not biased towards anyone in this show, because all 3 parties involved (Idaten, demons and humans) have all showed major character flaws. I'm simply stating the facts.

Idaten are an interesting case. I'll admit that Ysley killed humans and reeducated demons for sport. But I think he's more of an anomoly.

Idaten's personalities are probably heavily influenced by the thoughts of those they manifest from. Something that is a certainty though is the fact that Idaten hunt and kill demons based on instinct. This was literally explained in the show. Their sole purpose is to eradicate the threat of demons. The show literally also explained that the demon's sole purpose is to be a threat to humanity's existence. How is what I'm saying far fetched when this is literally what we've been told.

Rin did kill a lot of humans, but in the grand scheme of things, in her mind it's only a few. In her mind, she'd rather kill a thousand humans if it meant killing all the demons in one fell swoop than to kill no humans but to let say a hundred demons escape. The Idaten are apathetic towards humans except when it comes to preserving their species from extinction from demons. This was also explained in the show.

- Whether or not the Emperor was in charge of anything is irrelevant.

But my point here is that you shouldn't be trying to paint this guy as some misunderstood good guy.

Empathy towards humans clearly isn't something that's common among his race, nor is it something he'd normally feel.

- You're painting all Idaten under the same brush as Rin here. Did you conveniently forget that Ysley and Prontea were shocked that Rin wouldn't care if she killed humans in her rampage? Not all Idaten are the same.

Likewise not all demons are the same. You make all these excuses for the Emperor

but conveniently choose to ignore the fact Rin was carrying a trauma and fear for centuries that clearly influenced the behaviors she displays in the show.

What you fail to understand is that everyone in this show has flaws and all of them are very different from each other even if they share the same race.

The Emperor not pressing the nuke button was indeed a redeemable moment, but does that wipe away the fact he enabled all the atrocities that went down in Zoble? Of course not.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@SkyhighCFC

"Yeah, I feel bad for demons, they never had a winning chance."
"I'd say, Idaten can go to hell!"
You can assume what you want in your head but it's always better to ask for answers instead. This is basically "so what you're saying is..." argument. If I say I don't like color black, doesn't mean I like white. Assuming that I do - is ludicrous at best.

I don't know why you think "she should be more thankful" considering how Idaten never intended to rescue ANYBODY, and even when one happed to rescue a nun, he said he'd give 0 shits whether she died or not; and all this happened MOMENTS after the rescue. Yeah, I'd be incredibly grateful too...
It's baffling why you'd say this. The nun clearly believed in a merciful, protector-god; not some... god-like kid... who runs around killing/fighting "presumably redeemable in nun's opinion" demons, while saying "I don't give a shit if humans die in process or not".

Ok, so Nun turns out to be a very caring and kind person. This also says a lot about what kind of religion she would follow and what kind of god she would believe in. My point though was about nun showing concern towards a demon and an enemy, because in the end the said enemy basically saved her from the "I only care about fights - god"! Nun's belief must have shattered at this point. A god that isn't the god she envisioned, and a demon who basically did the god's job! What a twist! That slap she gave to Idaten was like "You call yourself a god?". She may not yet realize this, but I think she refuses to acknowledge Idaten as gods, despite them being akin to gods - meaning, overpowered and unkillable.
If you're confused than fret no longer - we do watch the same show; end of discussion.

Sure you do...
-You expected nun to be thankful to Idaten despite the fact Idaten almost killed her in a crossfire multiple times (including Rin's actions). Doesn't matter if some demon was about to kill her as well. Nun already witnessed how demons can be good, so seeing a "god" so casually kill someone who may be just as good as the emperor - is infuriating and requires a slap!
-You claimed only "few" humans died as if to "justify" Rin's erratic actions. It doesn't matter if Rin considers a thousand or a million dead humans as "few".
-You claim Idaten don't kill for sport when some obviously do and you admitted this later.
-And, you even expressed how you don't care about the emperor's last decision, because he's a demon who's supposedly responsible for warcrimes hence all his efforts are equal to null.

For someone who states "facts" you obviously criticize demons more and paint even the most redeemable one of them as bad. Also, you seem to assume that demons sole purpose is to destroy humans. That may have been true for the brainless demons of 800 years ago, but not current demons with intelligence. Things change...
So? Anomaly or not, he kills for sport and that's a fact you initially denied, hence why my statement about you being biased is justified. If you're stating the facts, don't claim that emperor's last decision doesn't mean much since he's PRESUMABLY the cause of war and terror; while sugarcoating Rin's atrocities with "she's killing few humans" or with "Ysley is an anomaly"

I said what I said because you're wrong. Show did say that demons were a threat to humanity, but it was talking about savage demons driven by instincts - one that was killed in episode 1. Even Idaten are not that black and white (apart from Rin perhaps), so for you to assume that demons have to be a threat "just because demons" is biased yet again. The whole Nun-Emperor scene was meant to prove this point!!! Emperor, a demon, A THREAT TO HUMANITY, refused to endanger a random human girl and then refused to nuke the city despite having nothing to lose. Demons are not that simple. If there's one, there can be more. The show itself contradicts your "demon's sole purpose is to be a threat to humanity's existence" argument.
I don't know why you're explaining this to me? Sounds more like an excuse that justifies "Rin, the killing-machine". Why should it matter what Rin thinks when killing humans and demons. My point stands. Demons are more human-like than Idaten are; hence why I said I felt sorry for them. Meanwhile, Idaten are more akin to "heartless killing machines", than humans; hence why I said they can go to hell - because I don't really care what happens to them, since they don't care what happens to humans unless demons are involved.

Just to make it clear, I think demons and Idaten are both a threat to humans on a grand scale and should both fuck off! STILL, I feel sorry for SOME demons, because boiling ALL of them in a single pot is simply unfair. Idaten can go to hell because demons managed to become sentient and one even showed empathy towards humans. Meanwhile Idaten are like drones who have no interest in integration with humans and couldn't change their POV despite having no natural enemy for a while. It's hard to picture what Idaten will do once, or if, demons are gone; they'll probably destroy the world by accident or after getting bored.
How is this not a biased statement? What if the emperor was a simple figurehead? His actions would still be irrelevant? How so???
Nor should he be labeled as a monster! At least not yet!
"Don't even get me started on the Emperor showing "empathy" on his deathbed. Where was this "empathy" when his kind were hunting down humans, enslaving the women and literally raping them non-stop." - You used this statement to downplay an obvious act of kindness. At the same time you expected nun to be thankful for the rescue that happened "randomly on the hunt" and almost ended with her death thanks to the erratic actions of the "savior".
There's not enough info for you to claim it's not "something he'd normally feel". Man didn't have enough screenplay, and when he did he showed empathy even though demons supposedly shouldn't do that. I think that speaks volumes. I will have 0 respect for Idaten unless they realize what the nun realized - demons can be redeemed.
I don't know why you'd say this when I already stated that: "First of all I'll start with admitting that NOT ALL Idaten are hertless killing machines. Paula is likely not hertless". I think you got too emotional after reading the word "biased" and accidentally skipped this very important phrase.
Because I was talking about the emperor in particular, not about all demons in general! I expressed how emperor was a more decent being than Rin and Hayato; hence why it's understandable why nun felt sorry for demons despite getting raped by the soldiers of their army. You just assumes that I had to like/support/side with all the demons in this show...
I have no problem understanding why Rin's killing demons without question, but she has spent 800 years in a world dominated by humans and still couldn't advance beyond demon-killing-machine state of mind. There's nothing to discuss about a pale and boring character as Rin. Same can't be said about the Emperor. Boring drones like Rin can go to hell, alongside with boring psycho-demons who have only murder/rape/violence on mind.
No, you just failed to read.
Once again, WE DON'T KNOW THAT. Dude may have been an emperor with no power whatsoever. Just because he was on the "evil side", doesn't mean he has to be evil. You assume you know the story of the character to help taint his image - this only proves that you're biased.

P.S And, just a reminder - we're having this discussion because you ASSUMED that by saying: "Yeah, I feel bad for demons" and "Idaten can go to hell" - I had to be siding with ALL the demons.