There're some concerns regarding how Steins;Gate mechanics functions and I'd be much appreciated if anyone here could provide plausible explanations. On the other hand, I'm also glad to answer any questions from you guys.
My post attempts to give a solution to any potential plothole and will include spoilers for both the anime and the game. It's also a pretty long read, and thus, if you hate wall of text, you can ignore this.
Notes:
For the sake of readability, I'll do the coloring in some parts.
+ The sentences that are statements taken from the game/anime, wiki, and other reliable sources will be colored red.
+ The sentences that are questions/concerns will be colored blue.
This flowchart can be used as a reference as well:
C1. Worldline (WL) and The Present:
The premises about WL are as follows:
The universe consists of a very large, or infinite, number of “world lines” existing in superposition.
Each world line is a self-consistent history with a certain divergence value.
Only one world line is “active” at a time and determines the actual state of the physical world.
Which world line is active can change, if an action contradicts the predetermined events of the current active world line. In that case the new active world line is chosen to be as similar as possible to the previous one, but without contradictions.
The physical world reconstructs when the world line changes.
Divergence on inactive world lines is fixed and everything follows its predetermined path.
The active world line also has a predetermined future, corresponding to the zero-divergence events it contained when it was inactive.
My question is how does S;G define the concept "The Present"? There seem to be two possible cases, but I'm more prone to the first:
The first suggests that there's only one instantaneous moment of the active WL that is actually active. That moment is considered to be the present, and every other point on the time axis is either past or future.
In this case, does that mean the present is which contains the Okabe we follow?
The second proposes every instantaneous moment of the active WL exists simultaneously. As such, the present is a subjectivity that depends upon the observer. That would make an infinite number of the present then, and the Okabes on the 10th, 11th, 12th, and so on both possess their own respective presents. In this case, are all Okabes equal? In other terms, could both of them be able to mess with the worldline?
C2. Attractor Field (AF) and Convergence:
Here're the premises about AF and Convergence:
An attractor field is a cluster of world lines that lead to a single converging point.
Convergence refers to a phenomenon in which multiple world lines within the same attractor field converge to the same result.
One of the biggest convergences in this series is the death of Mayuri, which happens in a multitude of ways. There's WL where Moeka shoots here, there's WL where Moeka crashes her by car, there's WL where Nae accidentally thrusts her into the train, etc.
From what's stated in C1, AF and Convergence evidently aren't the mighty forces of destiny that force a certain event to happen. Instead, a bundle of WLs with similar outcomes constitutes an AF.
Yet, in Luka's ending in the VN, at the 16th, Mayuri collapses out of the blue, and it's not like she suffers a stroke or has a history of CVD to begin with. Her death is attributed to an unknown reason that seemingly cannot be explained logically and naturally.
What is the best solution to this conundrum that doesn't contradict any rules?
C3. D-Mail:
Again, I'll mention the premises about D-Mail:
D-Mail can be used to cause the active world line to change, by contradicting historical events.
When D-Mail is sent, the universe selects an inactive world line that already contains a historical event with similar effects to the D-Mail’s arrival, then overwriting that one cause with the D-Mail’s arrival.
From those premises and the ones in C1, we extrapolate that there're an infinite number of WL that contain the D-Mail arrival, and the universe will "somehow" pick one that is closest to the previously active one.
Taking the story as an example, in the events in which Okabe sent his past self the winning Loto Six number, there's an AF that consists of those WLs where he didn't win; at the same time, there should also be another AF that consists of those WLs where he won. Apparently, the AF where he lost is more stable and closer to the currently active WL, and thus it's reasonable the universe would choose it, right?
However, in the events of Luka, the D-Mail literally moves the WL to the AF where Luka was born a girl instead. While it can be explained by the Butterfly Effect and Chromosome Abnormalities, it also raises another issue. For the universe to choose such a WL, there should be absolutely no WL where there's a D-Mail arrival and Luka was born a boy. As a matter of fact, this would contradict the concept of WL mentioned above.
Have I made a mistake somewhere, or is there any specific rule that I'm unaware of?
C4. Reading Steiner:
The premises of Reading Steiner are described as such:
Reading Steiner is the name that Okabe gives to the ability to remember the events of other world lines.
When a world line shift takes place, everything is reconstructed to match the new active world line, including people’s memories. However, Okabe’s mind is seemingly an exception to this rule, allowing him to retain knowledge of the world’s genuine history.
This quality is also not entirely unique to Okabe. Many more people, perhaps everyone, can remember other world lines to some extent. These memories manifest in dreams, or feelings of deja vu.
Normal people have their active WL's memories overwritten on the previous one and can only recall a bit of their ex-memories. Meanwhile, Okabe retains his memories across the shift of WL, yet, he doesn't have any idea about his memories in the new WL. It's obvious that Okabe's power is something completely opposite to everyone else's.
Since Steins;Gate makes reference to JoJo the most, and Faris also possesses an ability called "Cheshire Break", can we assume that Okabe also is one of such individuals (a Stand user) ?
C5. Time Leaping:
Now, these are the premises about Time Leaping:
Time leaping refers to an action that sends the sender’s memory data to the designated time on another world line, which then becomes active.
The newly activated world line will be one where the immediate effects of the time leap are consistent with that world line’s predetermined events.
A line from chapter 3 from Okabe: "One thing’s for certain, though - My consciousness leaps to the past along with my memories."
By specifying this, should the memories be considered the same as consciousness, or perhaps the memories instead encompass the consciousness?
In chapter 9, Okabe causes someone, who is later revealed to be Nae, to attempt to use the Time Leap Machine:
"The Time Leap Machine is still faintly warm. I knew someone used it. So, did they time leap?
Just who... I don’t know. Someone other than me used the Time Leap Machine. This is the first time that’s happened. Just to make sure, I check the settings on the connected X68000, but it’s useless. Just like with D-mails, the setting history has been erased."
When the WL shifts, the sending evidences disappear, so how in the world has the setting been erased while the machine itself is still warm?
C6. Physical Time Travel and Loop:
The premises about Physical Time Travel can be listed as such:
Physical time travel refers to the use of a time machine to transfer a person into the past. The physical time traveler will arrive only on world lines where their presence causes no immediate inconsistencies.
As long as they take no actions to significantly contradict the expected events of the current world line, the time traveler will simply become part of its history as time progresses. The versions of the time traveler on inactive world lines will be forced to behave this way, because divergence cannot change on inactive world lines by definition.
Next, these are the premises of Loop:
A loop could be considered a feature on a particular world line. The loop does not trigger reconstruction because reconstruction is a process to avoid paradoxes. Put another way, the time traveler does not change history but maintains it, so no divergence changes take place.
Since an infinite number of different world lines preexist and how their histories were first created is not specified, it's possible that there're world lines whose history includes a loop.
These rules pretty much help to explain the failed attempt to save Kurisu of Okabe in the ending. His act of time traveling ironically is already a part of the loop on WLs where Kurisu is stabbed. When Okabe returns, he receives a D-Mail that tells him to trick the old version of him to believe Kurisu is dead in order to shift the current WL to the S;G WL.
There's the AF where Okabe doesn't receive his future self's D-Mail, and it's where S;G 0 events take place. Meanwhile, the opposite of it is the AF where Okabe receives his future self's D-Mail, and it's where S;G events take place. My concern here is quite similar to the one I wrote in section C3. In the S;G universe, every WL is predetermined, but the chain of events in true history, which can be only experienced through Reading Steiner, is not. It's unpredictable and depends upon the action taken in the present.
So what is the concrete reason for the universe to make a choice to shift the active WL to the WL in the latter AF instead of the former AF?
It should be noted here that Okabe's action does not immediately trigger the reconstruction function. Only after he gets on the time machine with Suzuha and goes back to "the present" does the universe start to behave accordingly. The moment he lands is also the moment the WL shifts and Reading Steiner triggers.
After that part, there's a line in the game in which the reporter said: "Makise (Dr. Nakabachi) is currently under investigation by the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department as a suspect in the July 28th stabbing of a young man-- "
I want to mention one more time that the S;G WL is a WL where the version of Okabe here saw an unconscious Kurisu lying in the blood puddle. And the Okabe that is stabbed is the Okabe MC who later goes to the August 21st.
So who exactly is this supposed young man?
Another thing with S;G WL is that there's no WW3, SERN's dystopia, and both Kurisu and Mayuri survive.
Is there more than 1 WL that satisfies those conditions, or is S;G WL something ultimately unique? I mean, technically, there could be infinite WLs as such according to the rules, right?
A question for you before I try to answer, did you read the rest of the Science Adventure series besides Steins;Gate? Your usage and definition of the terminologies are surprisingly consistent with the nature of this world which is revealed through the rest of the franchise
I know exactly why you are confused. You are overthinking things and bringing up questions that even the author has given barely any thought on.
The reason you can't answer why certain things don't make sense is because they were never meant to make sense.. it's an anime, it's not that deep. 99% of people aren't going to understand that crap nor want to. Everyone however, understands not to mess with time and the consequences that is has when it does. Beyond that, no one cares.
I agree the show is complex at times and quite accurate however, you don't need to be a scientist to understand this show. You can frankly fail science in school and still understand everything.. the show wasn't made to be dissected in the way that you are trying to dissect and analyse it. So don't, you're simply wasting your time posing questions and problems to answers that never existed.. because it's an anime, not one of Einsteins thesis.
I know exactly why you are confused. You are overthinking things and bringing up questions that even the author has given barely any thought on.
The reason you can't answer why certain things don't make sense is because they were never meant to make sense.. it's an anime, it's not that deep. 99% of people aren't going to understand that crap nor want to. Everyone however, understands not to mess with time and the consequences that is has when it does. Beyond that, no one cares.
I agree the show is complex at times and quite accurate however, you don't need to be a scientist to understand this show. You can frankly fail science in school and still understand everything.. the show wasn't made to be dissected in the way that you are trying to dissect and analyse it. So don't, you're simply wasting your time posing questions and problems to answers that never existed.. because it's an anime, not one of Einsteins thesis.
@Fenyy Get the fuck out of here with this sensible and rational take, who do you think you are?
/s
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that.
A question for you before I try to answer, did you read the rest of the Science Adventure series besides Steins;Gate? Your usage and definition of the terminologies are surprisingly consistent with the nature of this world which is revealed through the rest of the franchise
@SciADV_Maniac For now, I've only read Chaos;Head Noah besides Steins;Gate, but I'm planning to check out Chaos;Child and Anonymous;Code too.
I know exactly why you are confused. You are overthinking things and bringing up questions that even the author has given barely any thought on.
The reason you can't answer why certain things don't make sense is because they were never meant to make sense.. it's an anime, it's not that deep. 99% of people aren't going to understand that crap nor want to. Everyone however, understands not to mess with time and the consequences that is has when it does. Beyond that, no one cares.
I agree the show is complex at times and quite accurate however, you don't need to be a scientist to understand this show. You can frankly fail science in school and still understand everything.. the show wasn't made to be dissected in the way that you are trying to dissect and analyse it. So don't, you're simply wasting your time posing questions and problems to answers that never existed.. because it's an anime, not one of Einsteins thesis.
Fenyy said: I know exactly why you are confused. You are overthinking things and bringing up questions that even the author has given barely any thought on.
I admit that I was overthinking stuff, yet I don't see anything wrong with that. Otherwise, these kinds of guidelines, maniacs never existed in the first place.
Fenyy said: The reason you can't answer why certain things don't make sense is because they were never meant to make sense.. it's an anime, it's not that deep. 99% of people aren't going to understand that crap nor want to. Everyone however, understands not to mess with time and the consequences that is has when it does. Beyond that, no one cares.
Steins;Gate is indeed an anime, but it's also adapted from the game. The anime cut a lot of sci-fi parts that made the source material excel. It's deeper and more niche than what it appears to be. And your statement about 99% perhaps can be applied to every field and subject.
Fenyy said: I agree the show is complex at times and quite accurate however, you don't need to be a scientist to understand this show. You can frankly fail science in school and still understand everything.. the show wasn't made to be dissected in the way that you are trying to dissect and analyse it. So don't, you're simply wasting your time posing questions and problems to answers that never existed.. because it's an anime, not one of Einsteins thesis.
You completely miss the mark of my thread. My post simply aims to discuss and interpret the series in a logical way, it never means to judge your enjoyment from the get-go. And the parts that I dissect are the mechanics of the series, it's the same as trying to analyze how Death Note functions. You know when people keep coming to ask for the watch order or claim writing plothole, it's that questions and problems exist.
I know exactly why you are confused. You are overthinking things and bringing up questions that even the author has given barely any thought on.
The reason you can't answer why certain things don't make sense is because they were never meant to make sense.. it's an anime, it's not that deep. 99% of people aren't going to understand that crap nor want to. Everyone however, understands not to mess with time and the consequences that is has when it does. Beyond that, no one cares.
I agree the show is complex at times and quite accurate however, you don't need to be a scientist to understand this show. You can frankly fail science in school and still understand everything.. the show wasn't made to be dissected in the way that you are trying to dissect and analyse it. So don't, you're simply wasting your time posing questions and problems to answers that never existed.. because it's an anime, not one of Einsteins thesis.
Oh boy. This series has deeper planning than you would ever think. And by "series", I mean the Science Adventure series, a series of visual novels (and other related materials) in which Steins;Gate is just the 2nd part (from 6, currently)
It's not "just an anime". Its source material is part of a pretty well thought-out game series
I'll try to tackle question 1 here, because there's a lot going on. The present in Steins;Gate can most easily be defined as "the current perception of the one with Reading Steiner". There isn't really an objective present, hell, Okabe even causes changes to his own past that is perceived as the present with the video D-mail. World lines reconstruct themselves, so every instance of time travel will have always been true once it has occurred, the present only matters to Okabe, who doesn't get reconstructed.
anonymous;code will literally answer all your questions. there's an explanation for all this physics defying stuff that let's all the sci;adv stuff be possible
So any Anime plot, ever, isn't worth thinking about, just because it's "not real"
Interesting.
You know, when you have nothing to say to a specific topic, it's sometimes just fine to not say anything.
(Do not try the "You too!" angle, please. Spare yourself that fourth grade defence and regain some dignity)
I'll try to tackle question 1 here, because there's a lot going on. The present in Steins;Gate can most easily be defined as "the current perception of the one with Reading Steiner". There isn't really an objective present, hell, Okabe even causes changes to his own past that is perceived as the present with the video D-mail. World lines reconstruct themselves, so every instance of time travel will have always been true once it has occurred, the present only matters to Okabe, who doesn't get reconstructed.
@Timeline_man Your idea is very similar to mine, that only one instantaneous moment of the active WL does present "The present". Reading Steiner works like God Eyes that observe the world. There's no guarantee and confirmation, but I guess it's safe to assume Reading Steiner will be shifted to another WL's Okabe when the current Okabe meets his demise. And when "The present" moves to the point where Okabe's live status probability reaches zero, the ability will be bestowed upon another person.
So any Anime plot, ever, isn't worth thinking about, just because it's "not real"
Interesting.
You know, when you have nothing to say to a specific topic, it's sometimes just fine to not say anything.
(Do not try the "You too!" angle, please. Spare yourself that fourth grade defence and regain some dignity)
@Merve2Love Not "any anime plot ever" but "something so irrelevant" in the plot, miniscule details that almost nobody cares about, because they aren't even real.
I know it's hard for us to master Reading Steiner
ZarutakuFeb 18, 6:20 AM
DesuMaiden said: Nobody resembles me physically because I don't even physically exist.
@Timeline_man Your idea is very similar to mine, that only one instantaneous moment of the active WL does present "The present". Reading Steiner works like God Eyes that observe the world. There's no guarantee and confirmation, but I guess it's safe to assume Reading Steiner will be shifted to another WL's Okabe when the current Okabe meets his demise. And when "The present" moves to the point where Okabe's live status probability reaches zero, the ability will be bestowed upon another person.
@kizumi91 That's an interesting idea, but I don't think Reading Steiner is exclusive to Okabe, per se. In some scenes of the VN, it seemed like Reading Steiner might not be as simple as having it or not, but that there are people with certain degrees of ability to sense worldline changes. It's been a while, but iirc, Faris seems to have some, if a much lesser, ability to know that the worldline has shifted. But ultimately. the "present" is a matter of perception, future and past are just concept to refer to a difference of time from the time you are currently perceiving. Okabe has the strongest form of Reading Steiner for the time being. Of course, we have no idea where it came from or how it manifested, so who would have the ability that strong after Kyoma's death would be anyone's guess.
@kizumi91 That's an interesting idea, but I don't think Reading Steiner is exclusive to Okabe, per se. In some scenes of the VN, it seemed like Reading Steiner might not be as simple as having it or not, but that there are people with certain degrees of ability to sense worldline changes. It's been a while, but iirc, Faris seems to have some, if a much lesser, ability to know that the worldline has shifted. But ultimately. the "present" is a matter of perception, future and past are just concept to refer to a difference of time from the time you are currently perceiving. Okabe has the strongest form of Reading Steiner for the time being. Of course, we have no idea where it came from or how it manifested, so who would have the ability that strong after Kyoma's death would be anyone's guess.
@Timeline_man I actually tried to analyze Reading Steiner in section C4 of my long post. The nature of Okabe's Reading Steiner and others' are entirely opposite. Okabe's Reading Steiner allows him to retain memories from other previous WLs; meanwhile, it's only the memories of the current WL with a tiny fraction from the old WL to people. Hence, Okabe's one is a special, unique one. Perhaps Reading Steiner can be interpreted as a phenomenon representing "The present".
So im rewatching it with my girlfriend and i can say it is brilliant. So what im gathering from my 2nd watch , the 1st time you watch this you view it as our main character so all the confusion and information your getting is from his lens ,your learning information like he is and processing it as such . Now on my 2 nd watch everything is clicking because im viewing it as our main character who experienced and has the knowledge of what the intended message was. Things I missed my 1st watch makes more sense now especially when you understand who is talking to who (tried to explain without spoilers because it literally was a whole new experience re watching) My 1st watch I was like ehh it ain’t bad but I don’t get it. And things that deal with time often confuse my brain because like it said there becomes infinite streams and I want to figure out which is which