Yuukoku no Moriarty 2nd Season Episode 9 Discussion

theGodde said:
This is not how you reference popular works. This was the worst possible way to pay homage to the Dark Knight.

Literally everything good about these past 2 episodes have been taken from tDK. Let's outline the plot. A man named MR WHITELY is London's WHITE KNIGHT (hehe see what they did there guys), and in the first episode he is shown standing up for justice and being a brave man - just like Harvey Dent. He has a sympathetic figure that represents his tie to humanity. Then the sympathetic figure is killed, and he brutally murders the killer, AND THE BLOOD IS SPLASHED ACROSS EXACTLY HALF OF HIS FACE. Get it guys. He's like two face because of the blood. He is then killed by the anit-hero to cover up his evil nature and sacrifice him as a pawn for equality and democracy. JUST LIKE THE DARK KNIGHT.

now there are several reasons why this is poorly integrated into the story. 1: it is actually the first time William is actually portrayed as a full-blown anit-hero. In season 1, he was a villain while also being the main character. In the first half of season 2, he was the hero who was saving the day from Milverton. And now he is literally just Batman. There are so many skilled ways this good have been integrated into the story. If they got rid of Milverton, we could have had Moriarty be the villain, the house of lords be a corrupt force that kills off Whitely's family, and Sherlock is investigating these crimes alongside Moriarty. Then when Moriarty finishes up at the end, Sherlock becomes his arch-rival. But because of th way the story has been structured, this other villain from the second season is now Moriarty's arch-rival.

Why did they do this then? there is one obvious reason. What Moriarty did was morally grey. It made us call into question whether he was truly a good guy. And god forbid we ever start to question the motivations of the main character. That wouldn't be interesting and complex at all. No, we can't have that. Instead, let's introduce a throwaway villain THAT IS MORE EVIL so that we can make Moriarty look good.

This is the same storytelling as the Rise of Skywalker. The writers couldn't handle the concept that Kylo Ren couldn't be redeemed and had to be responsible for his own actions. So they introduced Palpatine AGAIN so that all of Kylo Ren's bad behaviour could be blamed on Palpatine and Kylo Ren could go back to being good again.

By introducing another villain who is more evil than your anti-hero, you are destroying all the moral complexity the show once had. This has ruined all the things I liked about the first season.

r_justo said:

Soo what you are saying is that we would expect Bane in the future?? (Noice!)

Now for this point forward you literally say soo many things right... and many others wrong, but soo wrong!!



Ok... First of all the 1st season is the "introduction season", which means just that, after that things would always change, no escape from that in no existing series whatsoever. Second, actually making a "rival" or an "villain" for Moriarty is more than expected, what wouldn't be expected was a new character go to the top of his thing without the competition of the other "rivals" that do the same as him.
If there could be better approaches? Yh, maybe. But they preferred to go to the "popular way" making reference to everything that is good (Jack the reaper, James Bond, Batman, and the show goes on).


And you are going for the big guns!! BUT YOU ARE WRONG!!! (It was me, DIO!!=D)
You are SOOOOOO wrong with this one... The Rise of Skywalker was always a huge SW-killing mistake from the point when they changed The Last Jedi producer and in consequence the originally planned story... It was THAT film that ruined tRoS and not the movie itself. They killed the Original villain (Smoke, if I'm not mistaken) they deconstruct every character (Rey and Kyle, Luke, Finn, and many others) to the point of no return. THEN, they saw it was a HUGE mistake and gone back to the Original producer, and the first thing that he made when he realized what they did was put his 2 hands on the top of his head and rip out a bunch of his few remaining hairs!! The rest was just patching up with ducktape the better way they could, and with a lot of pressure from everywhere, the fans, the haters, the studio, the Bosses that made the original mistakes and don't want to be responsible for them and throw them to the others while pressure them for it to be solved... A mess!
That SW Trilogy was a mistake after mistake in 2,5/3 of the movies... Plz, don't compare what can't be compared... In the near future, producers will use that for research to "how to not do a series of movies", that's how bad SW was treated...


As I said before creating a rival for Moriarty to show what he's worth is completely expected and even necessary if you ask me. Be a villain because no other is, it's just like Rey being good because she's the only Jedi around (Talking about SW -.-). The first season is an introduction and surely it has shown what would be expected for the normal day between Moriarty vs Sherlock, but even without all this anime additional fan series stuff, in the original Sherlock always knows that he had Moriarty as a foe but also and more important the government as a foe as well. A major part o his solved crimes were provided by the elite and not from Moriarty actions, also part of Moriarty actions was also against the government as well, not introducing this in the series would be a huge mistake.
Again if they could do this better... Sure! But this way is more... EPIC!!! (What is Jojo without those stands and character's names?)

theGodde said:
I don't think it's at all expected or necessary. At this point there has been over 100 years of Sherlock Holmes related media, including books and tv shows depicting Moriarty as a sympathetic figure. And in none of them did they ever think of introducing competition for Moriarty.

It's not necessary, it won't break the audience's suspension of disbelief to say that Moriarty and Sherlock are unique, and they're just smarter than everyone else. In fact, that's what made Moriarty so interesting in the actual Sherlock Holmes book series. Moriarty was the only person (other than Mycroft) smart enough to brush wits with Sherlock - and nearly win. By introducing people who are almost as smart as Moriarty, you are eroding his uniqueness, as well as ruining the ethical dichotomy they had going. This would be like if you introduced another villain in Batman: Dark Knight for Batman and the Joker to team up and defeat. It ruins the PURPOSE OF THE JOKER. He is Batman's arch nemesis in the same way Moriarty is Sherlock's. By taking the focus away from their established rivalry, it ruins the entire purpose of bothering to introduce Sherlock in the first place.

If you are going to create a series about Moriarty and ignore Sherlock Holmes, then what is even the point of making this series based in the Sherlock universe? Just make an original story that rips off Sherlock - since they're basically just copying all the pop culture stories at this point. It's not epic, it's just lazy.

r_justo said:


Hey! You said your opinion and I said mine. The thing is, no matter what WE say, this series is pleasuring ppl here and there, so it's not bad at all.
As for Batman and the Joker, it's well known that the Joker was a team player when HE wanted, especially with other villains, I don't know if you know but Batman is not known only for the Joker! There were MANY other villains with almost as much importance as the Joker (one of them even more important at some points, especially because of his daughter). Stop complaining about stuff that is not related! Oh! BTW the Joker ALSO attacked other Villains to mark his domain (also known tbh)!

If it is necessary? I think it is! An awesome villain doesn't just APPEAR!! It needs to be created, to grow, to get BIG!!! If you have a story with the hero side, you can easily skip that with minor to no consequences, BUT if you do the Villain side, you CANNOT skip that!! Even Luke lost his mentor! Bruce lost his parents, and Simba lost his father! And all of them struggle before they became the heroes of their stories! To think the Villains are different... It is just stupid! AND it cut their stories in half... A loss-loss situation!

theGodde said:
Yes. People like where Moriarty the Patriot is going. I see absolute dog shit being given 10/10 reviews on MAL all the time. The point is not that some people enjoy something, but that there are a lot of people who enjoy it. Even then that doesn't make something objectively good. The writing of SAO is absolute dog shit but people still like and enjoy it to this day. So saying that because people like MtP doesn't make it instantly good. It's a lazy series that runs out of ideas and rips off western media in the hope that its domestic audience won't know the original source material.

Now the reason why I used a lot of Batman references isn't just because the show ripped off tDK, but because I used to read a LOT of comic books. And I can tell you now, whenever villains team up, it tends to produce a story that is very sub-par. The best Batman stories had a singular villain/villain syndicate. Think Batman: Night of the Owls or Batman: the Killing Joke. They always had a singular foe that the heroes had to overcome.

As for villains needing to be created, Moriarty emerged fully formed at the start of the show. His creation was shown to us in his backstory. How he had this ideology but he didn't have the power, skills, or resources to execute it. And by the end of S1 we've seen all his backstory, he has already been created. The show is about testing Moriarty's resolve and beliefs as he proceeds to execute them and change the country. Moriarty has had NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT since S1 and that's ok. If Moriarty was constantly learning and changing, that would actually hold the show back. The thing about Moriarty is he has already struggled. He has already suffered, and he has already lost things. There is no need to introduce this villain.

The reason why I'm so adamant about this is because I am a writer. I look at this and I see all the bad writing techniques and flaws. But what's worse is that I see what this series could have been. I see all the hints of originality and intrigue. But they are wasted as the author spends his time ripping off other, better shows without understanding why it was that they did certain things. This is closer to a Sherlock Holmes fanfiction than it is a fully fledged story. If you don't understand what I'm trying to say - I don't want to tell you that I just know more than you - but the fact is that you are only looking at the surface level, rather than the deeper themes and plot (or more accurately the lack of it) in Moriarty the Patriot.

However I respect your opinion. You obviously enjoy the show and my opinion shouldn't take anything away from your enjoyment of the show. You are allowed to enjoy a show that I think is bad. I'm not the authority on what shows people are and are not allowed to watch. I just want people to think deeper about the media they watch, and maybe learn and appreciate more about the process behind it.

If you've read this far, thank you for being patient enough. I'm sure you've already got some kind of rebuttal in your head, but I'm not making this argument to prove you wrong, I just want you to understand how and why I see MtP the way I do.

KANLen09 said:
The White Knight of London, MP Adam Whiteley's got trouble coming for him, starting from Charles Augustus Milverton himself, while James Bonde follows from behind. Pretty stoic that Adam would go a strong head against the scheming blackmailing king mastermind rep of the House of Lords.

As expected, Milverton doesn't cave in to pressure, and even worse, the act of right-hand man Inspector Sturridge's killings made him a scapegoat of a murder-class case. From a highly esteemed MP for the people, stooped down to a murderer because of the Devil's Temptation of blackmailing evil aided from Milverton.

Fred has having his own set of issues, and Milverton's hired henchmen has identified both him and Louis, this conflict is about to happen soon.

With all the world against him, the new villain has no one to turn to except the Moriarty Family. And the best man, the Lord of Crime, William himself is put to the job voluntarily to see this case to rest...through the usual stage of events of putting the blame on William himself to atone for his crime-committed sins as a white knight for the country he fought so hard for equality.

A necessary evil to turn the tables on the good side, what a show to change the country for good and eradicate Milverton's pure evil.

prynnyo said:
Amazing episode, Whiteley really made me think about Harvey Dent, so much resemblance.