Shin is one of the best male mcs in recent years in LN adaptations(This thread has spoilers from LN)

Thigh_Tide said:
Using PTSD to excuse the bastard's lack of personality is both an immature and offensive misunderstanding of the condition.

If you can get attached to that complete literary failure, you must be as shallow as he is.

Exotic_sprinkle said:

As a person with C-PTSD,let me tell you something,we have a lot to deal with inside our head.We don't need to overcome our emotional numbing and barriers we have built to keep our trauma responses in,just so people like you can think we have a personality.Also as obnoxious as you sound,even you should know it's offensive to assume all of us will behave the exact same way after surviving whatever major trauma that gave us our condition.
But even if you disagree on Shin being a good charecter or overall credibility of 86,his arc actually portrays a major trauma response realistically.That is Freezing.Being stuck,unable to move forward,imagine his future,isolating him from his acquaintances thinking it's best for them.This conflict resolution was done in a haphazard way.But in no way it's a bad portrayal.In fact I think Shin is too good for his own series.If there's no romance and we spent more time inside his head,he'd have more depth to his development..

Ikarus101 said:
PTSD has little to no correlation with personality I don’t have it, but 4-6 years back I remember my parents letting me talk to a homeless Desert war vet who had PTSD. He got around town in an electric wheelchair because he refused to get into a car or plane and almost never talked to anyone. In the last 2-4 years for comparison I have seen a bunch of homeless vets in the city I live in most of which couldn't care less about anything to include their own lives causing them to do anything to make enough money to feed themselves or end themselves. PTSD isn't a joke and can't easily be sterotyped and the very fact that it is treated as such is why so many vets become homeless or end up offing themselves

Thigh_Tide said:


Yes, that's essentially what I was getting at. Simplifying PTSD into a way to excuse superficial characters like the OP did is horribly and shockingly disrespectful to those suffering with the condition.

Exotic_sprinkle said:

Wrong.Don't go spreading misinformation.Milize and Nouzen are both actual protagonists of this series.In fact I'll say Shin has a much much bigger impact on the storyline both in the future and present.Without Shin the 86 and Lena will be nowhere.Tbh I sometimes find Lena to be idealistic to the point of bring naive.Her treatment of Shin and his ptsd was problematic af at times.And her white saviour complex with the whole 86 is the one complain I have with 86 in general.So no,Milize definitely doesn’t work out very well as the FMC.If you think Shin is a kirito clone and Lena is well written we read a different LN altogether.

Exotic_sprinkle said:

He gets a lot of inner monologues in volume 2,3,5 and 6.So I am assuming you'll understand his charecter a bit better in season 2.Or you'll end up disliking him even more lol.

Exotic_sprinkle said:

I am suffering with this condition.I never found Shin's potrayal to be neither shocking nor remotely disrespectful to my condition and suffering.Of course my response to certain social situation won't be like a normal person who has never experienced a major trauma.My trauma affected certain facets of my personality that's visible to other people.If I seem apathetic at times,can't open up to people and can't carry on a convo,according to you that's a lack of personality and superficiality and I am using my C-PTSD as an excuse to hide my lack of personality and that's offending to other C-PTSD sufferers?!!!Dude,just stop speaking on our behalf.You are way over your head.You have no idea what it means to have ptsd.You are grossly generalizing us and calling some trauma responses lack of personality and repeatedly trying to tell me,a C-PTSD sufferer,what is offending and shocking to my community.

Piromysl said:
Hardly.
He is just yet another generic OP Gary Stu light novel protagonist with no personality.
Basically yet another Kirito Clone, but not that bad.

This is excusable, because Milize is supposed to be an actual protagonist of this series and she works out very well.

MuZe- said:

But would you say Milize is any better than Shin as a protagonist? If Shin is a generic Gary Stu then Milize is also a goody two shows who doesn't have much to offer as a character. But she's cute ig.

Piromysl said:


Shin is the most generic archetype of a modern LN protagonist, who excels at everything, is "cool and level headed". It's almost like he is a self insert and we have seen this thing in 3/4 LNs already. There is literally nothing unique about this guy and I honestly don't understand what people see in him.

Milize is a naive kid with delusions of grandeur, which may eventually evolve into pathological altruism.
We are yet to see whether she will be willing to risk her position, status and privileges as a result of repercussions for sympathizing with 86 and so far, she has shown the signs, that she is doing this merely for her own self-gratification. She also is manipulative and shows disregard towards others in pursuit of her own goals.
That's an complex and interesting character with a severe flaws, that would impact the progression of the story and shows a lot of potential for character devolopement. Those two are incomparable.

I'll honestly vote Milize as the best protagonist of 2021 so far.

Exotic_sprinkle said:

Oh I get it another Lena simp.It's totally understandable how you are ignoring her generic white saviour archetype and flaws citing them as massive room for improvement.While Shin who has human flaws and massive trauma in his past,has literally improved over 8 volumes and is almost unrecognizable by the end of volume 8 gets dissed by you because you think his anti social tendencies and ptsd equal to having no personality.You are literally disliking him for doing his job and being a good protagonist.His action and esper power carry the series forward.He's a child soldier who sought glory and pride in death learn to live with his trauma,learns to let people in and finally leaves the battle field in his mind.If Asato has written one good charecter worth mentioning in 86 it's definitely Shin.There's a lot to love here.Honestly I am proud of him.

Also let's not forget how Asato Asato literally tried to fight racism with 86 but used exactly the same white saviour archetype for the FMC.All she does is command 86 staying within her safety net,treats them as human beings instead of subhumanoid pigs and gets heralded as the queen of 86.The white woman who saves the oppressed masses.That's not good writing.That's following white people fantasy stereotype 101.If anything Asato Asato is self inserting herself into Lena.That's your best charecter of 2021.A literal white saviour waifu bait you are trying too desperately to give hidden layers to because she has none.You are too predictable.Tbh I should have known when you were trying to dislike Shin too hard that you’d hype Lena up and sure enough.

Thigh_Tide said:


You have misunderstood. Having PTSD is not having a lack of personality. Shin as an individual has no personality, and attempting to excuse this by citing PTSD is inaccurate to both the condition and to the nature of characterisation. It's less using trauma to develop an interesting and meaningful character, but relying on it to divert from the lack of thought put into the writing.

You yourself have pointed out how the series fails to handle its own narrative and doesn't delve at all into an internal quandary, and that's just further indicative of the failure on the author's part to effectively construct both him or the work as a whole. He's inconsistent, he's ill-defined, he's passive and he fails to develop. That's not a good character, and that's not PTSD.

Thigh_Tide said:
Using PTSD to excuse the bastard's lack of personality is both an immature and offensive misunderstanding of the condition.

If you can get attached to that complete literary failure, you must be as shallow as he is.

addie1998 said:


He was not emotionless when he was a kid for sure

He became emotionless because of the war

He showed a psychotic attitude when he finally found his brother

He was crying so hard when he achieved his goal

And then finally we see him showed a very peaceful face and was engaging more and laughing with his comrades.

Did we watched the same show?

Thigh_Tide said:


I defined what a personality constitutes for a fictional character earlier in this thread. None of what you have listed demonstrated Shin having a personality.

addie1998 said:


Personality refers to individual differences in characteristic patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving.
Are u drunk dude? 🤣 okay

-Shin feels that it his responsibility to shoulder the deaths of his comrades. He had always been the last and only person left alive until he had met Raiden Shuga. Thus, even after meeting a companion that could survive along side him, he always felt it was his duty as the survivor to silently carry the tags of the fallen to his final destination.Even once letting go of his comrades on the border between San Magnolia and Giad, he still uses their deaths as an excuse to return to the battlefield. Shin's ability to hear the voices of the Legion places enormous mental strain on him even when he has become accustomed to listening to the constant wails of the dead. The weight of both his responsibilities and the effects of his ability have contributed to his stoic nature and lack of mirth.

-Shin has a strong desire to protect his companions, even if he sometimes does it in the wrong way. This is demonstrated in when he chooses to face the Shepherd alone to put his brother to rest, as well as when he forcibly takes control of the Spearhead Squadron's last Juggernaut and attempts to hold off the Legion so that the rest of his squadron can escape to Federacy territory.

-In contrast, he has a distinct lack of care for himself. He compares himself to the Legion, calling himself a ghost, aimless and wandering like the Legion that had lost their country.Consequently, he often throws himself into dangerous situations without regard for his own safety, somehow surviving through luck and combat skill. This tendency grows worse in Run Through the Battlefront. After he had put his brother to death, he had not particularly cared about his own life.He began to care about his survival again once he had a wish he wanted to fulfil, which was to take Lena to see the ocean together. This wish, coupled with the realization brought upon by the Sirins during the siege of Revich, made him reflect on his near suicidal fighting style.

-Shin is known to be an avid reader, reading various types of books to take his mind off of the voices of the Legion. He has a dismissive attitude towards maintaining the condition of his Juggernaut, an aspect of his that leads to many arguments with Chief Mechanic Lev Aldrecht.

If this still doesn't demonstrate his personality and i don't know wtf are u on about...

Thigh_Tide said:


Again, none of this shows a personality.

The first point you make highlights the author's inability to engender personal development, for instance, as you mention several events that should drastically alter a character's temperament in a well-written piece, but with Shin being a flanderised, empty character, no such changes are made to him. Your second point also shows this, by noting the character settle into the same, repetitive role, another symptom of the author's failure to make him any more profound than a mere archetype. The third comes close to saying something of value, by attributing a short-term goal to him, but this again just highlights that for the majority of the storyline, he had none. This is shallow, plain and simple. And finally, him reading again fails to tell anything of his character, since as you say, he's reading only as a result of his previous, one-note characterisation.

Where you appear to be going wrong is by assuming that facile tropes amount to a well-written character. This is, of course, not the case. As I mentioned earlier, and I referred you towards, Shin's major issues come from his mishandling of his position in the storyline. He is supposed to be the deuteragonist, yet is completely extraneous to much of the narrative. His mindset isn't explored to any degree, we never see any sort of growth, we don't even know what his views on critical aspects of the plot and world.

He's a character with all the depth of a saucer, a bad attempt by a bad creator. But you think that having 2 or 3 stereotypical quirky anime traits equates to good writing, so you're oblivious to that.

Thigh_Tide said:
Using PTSD to excuse the bastard's lack of personality is both an immature and offensive misunderstanding of the condition.

If you can get attached to that complete literary failure, you must be as shallow as he is.

addie1998 said:
Man you really are genius living on his own bubble

I just saw your list and i can't trust anymore of all the things you said 😂👎

addie1998 said:
In the first place why are u even here when you completely drop the show after ep3 it doesn't make any fxxking sense...

And you're here making a bad take when you didn't even finished the show huh? Please stop confusing people my goodness i fall for you 😆

Thigh_Tide said:


This isn't a rebuttal to anything I said. You're trying to disregard my viewpoint, not explaining why you think I'm incorrect. If you're not going to make any further attempts to do so, I will assume that you have accepted that your view is wrong.



This is once more an attempt at disregarding rather than responding. As above, I'll assume you concede until you provide a counterargument.

Furthermore, this is an inherently fallacious point. You are saying that because you disagree with my opinions on other shows, my opinion on this show is incorrect, but that assumes that your own opinions on said other shows are correct, yet nothing suggests that is the case.



You're moving the goalpost. Whether or not you think I should "be here" is irrelevant to whether or not I am right. Not to mention, the fact that you question this rather than returning to the matter at hand suggests you cannot back your view up any longer, which lessens your credibility and further supports mine.



Again, these aren't rebuttals to anything I said, but attempts at diminishing the entire argument. Nothing suggests I am making a "bad take" or "confusing" people other than you disagreeing, which is, as mentioned, in no way an objective measure of "correct." The same is the case with "not finishing" the show - no part of that means my view is incorrect, but you imply as such in lieu of having any way to further argue your mistaken point.

In short, if you don't have any way to disprove what I said in my previous response, I'll assume you admit you're wrong.

addie1998 said:


Says the person who gave
High school dxd a 9
Monster musume a 9
Goblin slayer a 9
Cautious hero also a 9
Blame movie a fxxking 9 what?

You dropped hxh aot & vivy wow you're the whole circus dude 🥳