Vinland Saga Episode 18 Discussion

RealTheAbsurdist said:


I think according to Canute and the priest, love = accepting all; not discriminating against anyone.

RealTheAbsurdist said:


I think according to Canute and the priest, love = accepting all; not discriminating against anyone.

ttcchen said:
there is. A story cannot exist without a plot. You are not understanding the fundamentals of writing.

Cyber_Icarus said:

It's not. The main focus is the characters and their struggles. The war is just a part of the show's setting. It's not the main focus.

emraanash said:



for me anime is all about connecting with characters. when they cry I cry, when they laugh I laugh.. but in case of vinland saga I didn't find it.

I know its a seinen anime , and there is a lot of seinen anime with simple plot ....... check out parasyte the maxim from madhouse so simple yet so powerful. and parasyte had 24 episodes.

RealTheAbsurdist said:


I don't understand. Now, I don't know much about the historical war between Denmark and England, but...the characters in the show are fighting the enemy. We're seeing them fight individual battles, win, and so forth. Isn't that showing the war?

emraanash said:



war should have been the main focus....... there aren't many characters...

death604 said:
episode was meh tbh.

i do like the priest's speech about discrimination, but the character development made for Canute was utter trash tbh. you simply don't make a 180 degree shift in character at a drop of a hat, character development is built up overtime.

also what the fuck was with that berserk thing? its kinda stupid tbh, he's too far gone to the point that he was about to attack the thing he needs to protect and then he gets snapped back to reality by someone he isn't really close with? by him frowning his face, and lecturing your about shit? what the actual fuck?

last thing is the fact that Thorkell was having a hard time against Thorfinn was a complete facepalm.

i'd give it a 2/5

Cyber_Icarus said:

yes you do. that's how trauma works, plus he's been struggling with his beliefs for quite a while now so it didn't come outta nowhere.

how is this a bad thing exactly? i love the nitpicking in the thread lol

Franck_Nicolas said:
i m surprised everyone of you love this episode because to me it s the worst one of the series so far.

you talk about character development, i just see characters suddenly and drastically changing their behaviour without reason

the fight was okay but too shonen-ish

also the prince's speach was over dramatic...

Alpha_Druid said:

^ this. Exactly my point.

death604 said:

rofl, you don't suddenly make a complete change of your character as if your previous character doesn't impact you.

that shit doesn't make sense even if you have a trauma or PTSD you don't suddenly change charactrer at a drop of a hat as if your previous character that had that trauma didn't affect you anymore. that shit is blatant poor writing.

also btw what trauma exactly are you talking about?

Vindicater said:


I found the choerography of the fight good but the fact thorfin was not destroyed in the first 10 seconds has created such a weird strength paradox.

Thorkell can beat 20 men by himself but can barely beat a teenage boy?

So Thorfin should be able to kill 20 men easily?

One of these characters has had their development warped due to this fight.

Tokyoboy07011 said:
Talk about character development! Canute finally looking like he serves a purpose and his facial expressions this episode were amazing! This isn't a shounen so it makes sense the Highlight is Canute's development but im pretty sure we will see Thorfinn Vs Thorkell more next episode ?(Btw i found out the word used in manga was "Prejudice" instead of discrimination, honestly idk the difference but prejudice seems fitting)

death604 said:
basically you can't form your own arguments(or is it a cry for help lol)? his argument doesn't even connect to the discussion we are having i.e. Canute's incomprehensible sudden change in character

Cyber_Icarus said:


@najumobi explained it better than me. also no need to call me a kid lol. we are just discussing cartoons here. chill.

RealTheAbsurdist said:
@death604

I think the quote below explains it best:



That...makes a lot of sense, now that you explain it. But I think the story could've done a better job at showing specifically that Canute wasn't afraid of the violence around him. I do think it's definitely confusing why people think Canute's philosophical transformation was spontaneous, because as you said, the anime had quite been building up to it. But then again, most of us are watching this anime weekly, so we could be forgetting a lot of details.

Gabisu said:
I will argue for him, being specific, from a point ago Canute was a spoiled and cowardly person, right? From Ragnar's explanations, Canute grew up in a scenario full of self thinking people (as in episode 13 a flashback showing Canute, a child in the face of castle deaths), in the midst of this power struggle, people don't think of each other, this point drives his train of thought in this episode.

While raised by Ragnar, he learned good manners, was still close as shown his characterization episodes ago, but even learning good manners, he was stopped in time, enough to hear the priest himself questioning God, Canute is angry with supposed "hypocrisy" of the priest, for he was in fact questioning after innocent people died cruelly.

Episodes after Ragnar's death surfaced shaking Canute completely, he was alone there in that world, lost not only his father figure but the person with whom he showed his true feelings, after all he never had a love of a Father, his Father himself despises him. Then comes the mutiny, in which everything turns to Canute, it's the cause of everything, and once again people are killing each other for no reason, as Thorgrinn himself did this mutiny thinking about himself, he didn't think of any more. people, only followed Askeladd, which strengthens the dialogue of everyone thinking about himself (but clearly differently).

Canute's whole dream was a message of independence for his own, since that's why he decided to look into the present (obviously a punch from Askeladd didn't help him), and upon waking up he comes across the war scenario again, while the priest decides to argue with him, Canute's mind exploded with all this, it was as if he were a medal, he was alone, while listening to the thoughts of the priest, he decides to question God himself, after all alone he would have to depend God's? Would he need to wait for his salvation? Seeing that Father was the first to question God and all the dialogue about being tested in this world influenced Canute thinking, he was fed up with seeing the same landscape, people killing themselves for futile reasons, and how God would do nothing to change this landscape, he decides to want to change, to at least want at least a paradise on earth, and of course he is the prince, he may have a chance to become a king, so he relies on what was given to him from the beginning. , he will need to fight fairly to get what he wants, after all he tired of waiting for God, of course I can not say that this was realistic, but the epiphany was consistent with what was shown and interconnected at these points.

bonus: This scenario represents why Thors quit his life as a warrior, I think one of the things that most drives this thinking is when a soldier Thors has just killed says a woman's name (In the first episode, a man says the word '' Maria ''), could it be his wife? The daughter? Who knows, but there could be a dear person in his life, he had someone to go back to, which is why this line of thinking makes Thors think of his family and abandon everything, just as Canute thinks of people in general. and want to end it all, '' as a king's duty '', on the one hand someone tries to escape the battles, on the other, someone tries to end them, but the general context of these scenes is always the same, about the The subject of war brings no fruit to humans, only trauma or horror, this killing is meaningless, it is just a small thing I have interconnected, so you can ignore my point.

Of course I would say that this is an awakening, not a development, for me development is when he takes action and shows a new perspective on the universe, more he walks. This promised deliverance that he himself must find, since he has always grown up in the midst of death, always refusing to wait for a miracle, he decides to change things.

It is not a dialogue about how a King should act politically, but as someone who should guide people to salvation, after all if you want this to end, you must have the will and action to change the whole landscape.

RealTheAbsurdist said:


I agree that Canute's sudden confidence is jarring. But I remember it has been shown in quite a number of scenes that Canute was questioning God.

Luthandorius said:
The change in personality was a bit too sudden for Canute. Would have been better if he started with being more extrovert and trying to act like a leader but asking Askeladd or others for advice. But I guess since Askeladd was "busy" watching the fight between Thorkell and Thorfinn ... Canute just got the leadership superpowers and probably now is a better leader than Askeladd from 0 to 100.

death604 said:


dude, the issue isn't the cause, but his sudden change in character. what happened was that his change in personality from this guy who can't even talk to anyone other than ragnar, and is overly cautious of what he says due to his standing into this insanely confident, and unfazed leader that is from the looks of it gonna talk to thorknell for diplomatic reason. you gotta be kidding me if you believe that shit isn't an abrupt 180 degree change in character.

which again points toward the reasoning why i find this episode bad i.e. bad character development. instead of a gradual change of character you're slapped with this surprise mdafakas he's an ideal leader now.

RealTheAbsurdist said:


Yeah, I 100% agree, even though I love this anime to death.

RealTheAbsurdist said:


I would understand that, if Canute became more confident after a while after his enlightenment.
I'm caught up with the Vinland Saga manga, but I may have forgotten those other things, so...spoil me, I guess? (Just put spoiler tags for the others)

death604 said:
your post didn't address how the sudden transition of Canute's personality makes sense from this guy who can't even speak to anyone other than Ragnar because according to him he was cautious of his standing as a prince to this guy that suddenly is a confident, ideal, and unfazed leader that from the looks of it is now gonna talk to thorknell about diplomatic stuffs

Gabisu said:

the whole cause drives change, I said right there is as if the canute's own mind exploded, just as Thorfinn went from a sensible, silly child to a boy who only sees a thought around him, the anger that culminates in his own his character. Here is the scorn that culminates in Canute, he just changed his perspective, and his poclamation (the scene with Bjorn) is like a release, he's being naive, but it's still understandable, he wants to stop it all by himself, after of absorbing ideas, is it so hard to understand that someone who has never had another person to show you the world, changed your perspective in front of someone "wise"? Just as there are people who change their mind and perspective repeatedly (here in this thread) because of words.

1-Fatherly love
2-Reaction to cruelty
3-obfuscation of this reality with the love that is given
4-Being put into battle to die
5-Being spoiled and loved as always
6-Keeping closed in various situations
7-For the first time he opens to the point of discuss with Thorfinn
8-Seeing a massacre and pray for the victims
9-Refuses to accept that someone is questioning God
10-The Death of the Love He Had Before
11-Shaken at death
12-In your dreams still proving fragile
13-Still in his dreams he breaks free and looks at reality
14-Discuss the first idea of ​​love with the priest
15-Understand this idea and show indignation
16-Wish for the scenery to change
17-He is disappointed because he will not change
18-He decides to change it himself
Just thinking about God's promised paradise
20-Try to act on Bjorn's figure as a test of God
(Remembering the fact that they are all barbarians who kill themselves because they want to)
21-Decides to follow this thought and go to Thorkell, even if it is wrong
22-He needs to get strong if he wants to talk to these guys without losing his composure

I made all the tickets easier for you

Jaegerbomb_106 said:

I see your point, but how I see it, I think that the reason he lost all his cautiousness is because he has nothing left to lose. After he lost Ragnar, and heard what the priest said, he no longer cared about his current place in the world as prince, and instead is trying to make a new place for himself and others. He had actually realized that he had already lost his place, because there was no one left who he was important to in his eyes. There are a few more things that bring sense to his sudden change, but it would be going into spoiler territory.

najumobi said:

Ah. I see what you're getting at. Why he's confident now, while earlier he was cautious?

He said he was cautious but that was a while ago when they were in Wales (EP13), at least several weeks ago, before winter began and hundreds of miles from where they are now. Since then, he stood by while a village of people, and then his father-figure died for him.

He was already "book smart", knowing the role and significance of being in the royal family. And he's showed he at least had the fortitude to defy his father by signing a treaty (diplomatic stuff). But Ragnar unintentionally enabled his bystander mentality. Thorkell asks the prince a question, but Ragnar answers. Gratianus asks the prince a question, but Ragnar answers. This is why Asklaad killed him.

It's more complicated than this, but even on the surface level you get the picture of someone who is fed up with being bystander, while people, in this case Asklaad's men, are dying for him. The priest actually says this to him.

death604 said:

again its like you guys aren't even reading the posts. the issue is about the abruptness of the change of personality he's become a polar opposite of his previous character in a snap of a finger simply because he had a revelation moment? that shit doesn't make sense nor is even believable. there was no development to his character that shows he's gonna point towards this type of personality which makes it a bad character development

RealTheAbsurdist said:


Shouldn't that all have been hinted before Canute's enlightenment?