Toaru Majutsu no Index III Episode 25 Discussion

Elisile said:
@Tsukumo_Yuuma Well I haven't read the light novels, and I'm not well- versed in anime directors lol. So, I really didn't know what to expect, good or bad. But once Index and Touma were randomly shipped to England about halfway through the season, I honestly kinda started losing interest. I *think* I understand why they went there? Something about thwarting a terrorist plot between UK separatist groups, or trying to prevent a war between Britain and France, or something like that? But then things quickly got convoluted when the princess tried to take control? But see, I don't even remember the name of the princess, aside from the fact that she wields that Curtana thing. And my memory as to why the story even shifted to Britain is shady. Am I just stupid, or did they rush this stuff? And of course, everyone who the series built up to be a villain is now a good guy, which further muddies the waters. Why even get invested into a good vs. evil narrative if you know that all the bad guys are just gonna get redeemed anyway? It's almost like there's no point. It makes the redemption arcs of characters like Accelerator almost seem less impactful.

Elisile said:
@Tsukumo_Yuuma Yeah the Battle Royle arc was an absolute mess; I had no idea who all these random groups were or why they were suddenly fighting. But at least I got to see characters who I cared about, like Accel and the other members of GROUP and ITEM (even if I think that the ITEM storyline overall has been poorly handled in the anime). But with the British arc, the only two characters I even knew were Touma and Index. Kanzaki and the Amakusa would show up every once in a while (if I remember correctly), but otherwise the new characters were all rushed and I honestly couldn't have cared less about them or that whole arc in general.

As for the "good guys" stuff, my problem is that the anime sets these characters up as the antagonists. So, William Orwell (Acqua) might not *technically* be a bad guy anymore, but when we initially saw him, he was on a rampage to capture and maim Touma at all costs, and it was up to our heroes (Touma and the Amakusa) to fight him until the bitter end. And if Fiamma isn't a 'bad guy', then the anime has certainly failed to communicate that. He might have good intentions, but his ways of going about them are pure evil. Then with the Curtana Princess, did she even have a good intention? I thought she just wanted to consolidate England under her power or something? Idk.

Anyways, what I'm getting at here is that, for us audience members to actually feel vindicated about morally ambiguous characters getting redemptions, we actually have to feel their internal struggles. We have to see their growth and development. We have to understand their complexities. It doesn't work when Acqua was trying to harm Touma one second, and is then randomly saving him the next, or Curtana Princess was trying to rule Britain and counter France 30 seconds ago, but is now working hand- in- hand with the French. And if the answer is "Well yeah but everyone's facing a common enemy now in Fiamma and Russia", then 1) that's kinda lame and 2) that would set Fiamma up as the definite villain, who should not be redeemed in 1 minute of a pep- talk from Touma, like virtually everyone else so far has been.

Tiau said:

Well first off, Acqua actually tried to spare Touma and specifically didn't really maim him all that much to give him a chance to peacefully surrender, as Acqua was never interested in going to all out war. He thought that if he acquired IB(the main excuse the others used to fight with Academy City) then this would all die down. The reason why he stopped is indeed because of Fiamma but also as his flashback does note, the place he truly cares about was also in danger due to the coup which is much more important to him than Touma.

As far as Carissa is concerned, literally all she wanted was her homeland to be safe since she considered its current state of being in alliance with Academy City(hated by everyone else) and having treaties with the french and others would lead it to downfall. The only reason why she really wanted to go against the french is because she assumed they were at fault for the terrorism. And when she fought them in the current arc, that was because they sided with Fiamma while she did not, once it was revealed that Fiamma didn't care about his own allies then of course they would stop fighting each other. It's not even a matter of it being lame or not, why continue to fight when your entire purpose is no longer relevant?

Elisile said:


First off, Acqua wanted to capture Touma and slice off his right arm without his consent. If Touma didn't come peacefully, Acqua would have captured him by force and fought against anyone (the Amakusa) who stood in his way. So if being willing to capture someone and cut their arm off isn't considered "seriously maiming them", then I don't know what is. The Amakusa, Touma, Kanzaki, everyone was fighting against Acqua. The anime set him up as a villain, or at the very least as an antagonist.

As for Carissa, I'll admit to ignorance. That arc flew right over my head; all I gleaned from it was that she was power- crazed and would stop at nothing until all of Britain was consolidated under her control, no matter who she had to kill in the process, including members of her own family.

Just because a character might have good intentions, or might not think that what they're doing is wrong, does not mean that it still isn't wrong. Many people have warped minds and lose touch with the boundaries of right and wrong. Their subjective, screwed- up perception(s) of the world does not justify their actions or change the objective realities of right and wrong. It's the often- flawed "what I'm doing is for the greater good" mentality, essentially justifying any wrong action being taken in the process. That usually leads nowhere good.

Anyways, you must have a much better comprehension skill for this show than I do. Especially in the English arc, I could hardly get a grasp on what was supposed to be happening before they'd just switch to another character's POV, and then another's, and then another's, and then another's..... all while trying to keep up with subtitles translated from a different language and trying to understand the complex geopolitical nature of why a show about Japan is now in England and talking about French terrorists lol.

Elisile said:
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Anyways, you must have a much better comprehension skill for this show than I do. Especially in the English arc, I could hardly get a grasp on what was supposed to be happening before they'd just switch to another character's POV, and then another's, and then another's, and then another's..... all while trying to keep up with subtitles translated from a different language and trying to understand the complex geopolitical nature of why a show about Japan is now in England and talking about French terrorists lol.

Elisile said:
@Tsukumo_Yuuma Lol thanks. I thought I was going crazy.

Tsukumo_Yuuma said:

np , even Tiau has read the LN btw , so he understands the anime more easily.

Deknijff said:
low-key kind of wondering why Misaka is here. She came for Touma but that isn't really working and whatever else she is doing that could be important I could easily see just Accelerator or Hamazura doing instead
hmmm but I guess it doesn't really matter since its not harming the narrative and is cute seeing her talk to 10777. Would of preferred 10032 to be honest if a Sister was just going to be there when the author was thinking of including one