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| I will admit, the different animation style did surprise me at first, but I personally really liked the decision here by A-1 and the huge amount of freelance animators used for the episode. The fluidity of the movements of the servants as they battled each other to the death, coupled with the hugely satisfying soundtrack, made the battles really exciting and thrilling. =) Now if only some of the critics here actually explained in detail as to why they think the episode was "poorly" animated. If it's not to their tastes, then fair enough. If it isn't that then an explanation would be necessary. =/ Other than that, it was a great episode. We're one step close to Shirou now, so I hope that Ruler can win her next fight. =) |
MarlyTT said: That's because you don't understand what "animation" means. jtpetino said: This; animation should be judged as a whole, not by one frame. From what I saw people commenting and talking with friends, several free-lancers were hired to make the episode, so it wasn't a matter of style and innovation, but lack of money, in this case, I reinforced that it was a badly done episode in question of animation, not of story. I'm analyzing the episode in general, not just a single frame and I'm not the only one to criticize. Was it a good episode? WAS. Was it well done? Don't. I hope that the animation improves in the next episodes, and I'll continue to criticize if it continues like this, however, it's a little thing the fall in the animation in few episodes, so it doesn't shocking for the series. I can upload reviews from friends, more pictures, gifs or videos and compare to past episodes to demonstrate my discontent. Adding, for me, the only part where the animation was good, was when Jeanne arrived in Semiramis room. Could be better? Could. But there were financial problems, but that doesn't stop me from criticizing. |
JalterDec 11, 2017 9:44 AM
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Jalter said: MarlyTT said: That's because you don't understand what "animation" means. jtpetino said: This; animation should be judged as a whole, not by one frame. From what I saw people commenting and talking with friends, several free-lancers were hired to make the episode, so it wasn't a matter of style and innovation, but lack of money, in this case, I reinforced that it was a badly done episode in question of animation, not of story.[color=#b642f4] I'm analyzing the episode in general, not just a single frame and I'm not the only one to criticize. Was it a good episode? WAS. Was it well done? Don't. I hope that the animation improves in the next episodes, and I'll continue to criticize if it continues like this, however, it's a little thing the fall in the animation in few episodes, so it doesn't shocking for the series. Uuuh...this a bizarrely uninformed post to make; those "free-lancers" were up and coming hot names in the industry. It cost them more to make, not less, being in every sense, an industry event. And really, you said you can post pictures (and you did post a picture) to complain about the animation, that's really quite silly. Like, the art style and character appearances are subjective, but the animation was far from bad. And really, when industry famous names like Mob Psycho 100's CD Kameda, JJBA 3D Openings director Naoki Yoshibe, Flip Flappers CD Takashi Kojima, Shelter director Akai, Genius realistic animator Hirofumi Okita, Tatami Galaxy's Yuasa Masaaki, etc, have all praised the animation in the episode, all the complaints just look pretty frivolous in comparison. All of those people know more about animation and what makes it good than random fans on the internet or your friends. So yeah your criticism falls quite flat. |
Jalter said: MarlyTT said: That's because you don't understand what "animation" means. jtpetino said: This; animation should be judged as a whole, not by one frame. From what I saw people commenting and talking with friends, several free-lancers were hired to make the episode, so it wasn't a matter of style and innovation, but lack of money, in this case, I reinforced that it was a badly done episode in question of animation, not of story. I'm analyzing the episode in general, not just a single frame and I'm not the only one to criticize. Was it a good episode? WAS. Was it well done? Don't. I hope that the animation improves in the next episodes, and I'll continue to criticize if it continues like this, however, it's a little thing the fall in the animation in few episodes, so it doesn't shocking for the series. I can upload reviews from friends, more pictures, gifs or videos and compare to past episodes to demonstrate my discontent. Adding, for me, the only part where the animation was good, was when Jeanne arrived in Semiramis room. What are you even on about? You think they will outsource their work to animators from different studios if they don't actually have money? Just re-iterate what you said. THESE GUYS WILL HIRE ANIMATORS FROM OTHER STUDIOS ON TOP OF THEIR OWN ANIMATORS IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AND THE DEDICATION? Like really? Please stop talking out of your ass if you literally have no idea what animation is about. And every single pic of yours are in between frames that aren't ever meant to be viewed as standalone. You can criticize the artstyle because those pics resort to THAT.It has nothing to do with ANIMATION. FYI,there is a distinctive difference between artstyle and animation. |
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Insertanamehere said: Uuuh...this a bizarrely uninformed post to make; those "free-lancers" were up and coming hot names in the industry. It cost them more to make, not less, being in every sense, an industry event. And really, you said you can post pictures (and you did post a picture) to complain about the animation, that's really quite silly. Like, the art style and character appearances are subjective, but the animation was far from bad. And really, when industry famous names like Mob Psycho 100's CD Kameda, JJBA 3D Openings director Naoki Yoshibe, Flip Flappers CD Takashi Kojima, Shelter director Akai, Genius realistic animator Hirofumi Okita, Tatami Galaxy's Yuasa Masaaki, etc, have all praised the animation in the episode, all the complaints just look pretty frivolous in comparison. All of those people know more about animation and what makes it good than random fans on the internet or your friends. So yeah your criticism falls quite flat. Yeah, I may be uninformed, but I know what I saw in the episode was a drop in animation, and I'm here to find out what happened and to discuss it. The names you quoted and the series that featured similar animations were exceptional, incredible, and I felt it in this episode, but with less intensity. And for such incredible battles, I was disappointed. Simple. |
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laidellent said: What are you even on about? You think they will outsource their work to animators from different studios if they don't actually have money? Just re-iterate what you said. THESE GUYS WILL HIRE ANIMATORS FROM OTHER STUDIOS ON TOP OF THEIR OWN ANIMATORS IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AND THE DEDICATION? Like really? Please stop talking out of your ass if you literally have no idea what animation is about. And every single pic of yours are in between frames that aren't ever meant to be viewed as standalone. You can criticize the artstyle because those pics resort to THAT.It has nothing to do with ANIMATION. FYI,there is a distinctive difference between artstyle and animation. I'm sorry for being rude, maybe I said something wrong, because English isn't my native language and I'm always wrong. But as soon as I am, the series is in financial problems and I'm disappointed. |
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| The animation was LIT AF, but with all honestly It felt like a clusterfuck of colors, not in a bad way ofc, It reminds me of Mob Psycho 100 fight that was really good, rather than looking visually good this kind of animation works well mostly because it looks fluid and smooth, It might be confusing considering how the other fights have been done, but it wasn't that bad either. |
| "We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes." ~Blackwall |
| Karna really lived up to his hype.The animation was good too.Excellent episode. |
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| Was this episode animated by Trigger or something? It looked completely different from the 21 episodes before - and i like it! |
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| what a huge list of animators, they really went all out with sakuga animation Karna fight was really worth a wait and Achilles all np was showed, now waiting for the infamous mordred and sisigou badass fight. |
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| God damn I haven't cared about this show since the start but this episode had me fucking going. So much shit going on, amazing animation, everyone fucking dying, amazing music, explosions galore. Truly amazing episode. I can only hope the next three can come close to matching this, what a turnaround this show would be from the mediocre first half. |
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| Seeing Ruler banish the spirits in Jacks world really unhinged her but to think that Atalanta's noble phantasm was like that though. Lancer requesting that Sieg and Calues rescue their masters was surprising. Rider stepping in to take care of Atalanta himself though was a surprise considering his wounds. The fights between Lancer and Sieg and Ruler and Atalanta sure were impressive. Achilles lending his noble phantasm though was a pleasant surprise as was Astolfo's survival. Though he was an enemy Lancer to the end fought with honour and courage and gave it his all. Astolfo's last words to him was heartwarming though. Though Rider succeeded in stopping Atalanta it was sad seeing that Atalanta knew that her path was wrong but couldn't accept the actions of what Ruler did. Well at least Rider was able to stop Atalanta's madness in the end and that they will pass into the next world in peace. |
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| The animation was solid this episode, it was a weird change but very pleasing... Fight scenes were epic, one of the best I have seen so far in 2017. I thought last weeks fight between Archer of Black and Rider of Red was epic, but it was nothing compared to this weeks. Can't wait for this series climax, Hype! Edit: A lot of Trigger vibes in the animation, is this maybe a tease of what to expect from upcoming anime Original Darling in the FranXX by A1 & Trigger.... who knows |
CeddyyBearrDec 11, 2017 12:46 PM
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| Thoughts and i have lots: The animation was so different. It was very odd to see, not bad but not particularly my taste. All I can say is holy shit if ufotable did this show like the rest of the fate shows it would have been absolutely fucking crazy. So much bad ass action in one episode they wouldve killed it. Second thought is about the servants particularly the ones that died. Through the whole show i never felt attached to anyone like fate/zero and fate/stay night made me attached to servants. They didnt show us anything about these servants personalities past their role in this holy grail war and it was a bit disappointing. HOWEVER THIS EPISODE THEY FINALLY DID. Karna - Biggest bad ass in the show imo and wow is he OP. He actually had them save his old masters even though he wasnt their servanr anymore! He fights his opponents with honor and wishes Sieg the best when he is defeated. Probably my favorite servant in this show and now it is sad to see him go. Atalante - Ok she likes kids i fucking understand from the last 7 episodes. But this episode to see Achilles do her in and for her to admit to him that she knew she couldnt save them and hated ruler for doing the right thing when she KNEW it was the right thing but wasnt what she believed in was awesome and finally some more meat to her “i want to save kids” character. No wonder she went insane. Achilles - Keeps his promise to his teacher and saves Atalante from her insanity very well knowing it might cost him his life. True to himself to the end. It is very sad to see these characters finally get a personality apart from the bland cookie cutter traits they display in the holy grail war just to be erased from the show. Up until jack the ripper this show was very bland with just mindless fighting but its gotten a lot better recently especially in this episode. Which brings me to another thought. Sieg. He defeats Karna (thanks to Astolfo) even though Karna wouldve torn through him 99/100 times. I dont really like characters like Sieg so its rather disappointing thinking he will win Jeanne the war if thats what happens. He shouldve died 1000x by now. Shirou 2.0 much? And my final thought. What the fuck is Shakespeare going to do to Jeanne??? Its really got me thinking about what he did to Frankenstein and very interested in what he will do to Jeanne. Tbh im surprised he made it this far into the show and for him to be the final servant she faces is very intriguing. Hyped for this altercation it better be good even though i can see a generic “Sieg saves her from her bad dream” ending to it. |
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| I'm afraid that I'm going to have to join the group that disliked the animation. I thought it was poorly done. I don't mind if you liked it, but if you're going to say that was the best animated fight scene in the Fate series, you must be out of your mind. Movements were not fluid; background art was ridiculously poor. I thought they were on the moon for the entirety of the fight. Just because there was some flashy blue and red colors coming out of their weapons doesn't mean it's well animated. Hopefully they fix it up later. I enjoyed ufotable way more |
| lol lots of triggered weebs about that poor animation comment anyways, I hope we see some cool shit from saber of red next ep. |
Woodfall said: Karna - Biggest bad ass in the show imo and wow is he OP. He actually had them save his old masters even though he wasnt their servanr anymore! He fights his opponents with honor and wishes Sieg the best when he is defeated. Probably my favorite servant in this show and now it is sad to see him go. And my final thought. What the fuck is Shakespeare going to do to Jeanne??? Its really got me thinking about what he did to Frankenstein and very interested in what he will do to Jeanne. Tbh im surprised he made it this far into the show and for him to be the final servant she faces is very intriguing. Hyped for this altercation it better be good even though i can see a generic “Sieg saves her from her bad dream” ending to it. Karna is someone Gilgamesh acknowledged he'd have to go all-out against. He's sort of a foil for Gilgamesh, who looks down on the weak and hoards all treasures, while Karna is known as the Hero of Charity, willing to give even his most prized possessions away to beggars. No idea what's gonna happen with Shakespeare, but it should be noted that Jeanne has EX Rank Magic Resistance, being a Ruler and all. Saber was able to negate magic from a top-tier Age of the Gods witch with A rank in UBW, so Shakespeare shouldn't be able to do much to Jeanne directly with magic. |
Moekou said: Inugirlz said: Fate has an awesome concept but the delivery is shit. Maybe the LNs are really just so much better? EDIT: I mean VNs. Are there even LNs? Fate/Apocrypha is a series of light novels so I have no idea how it's handled there. For the original Fate/Stay Night visual novel though, you had a menu and glossary like regular video games, where you could read many pages of info on each weapon, hero, and their various abilities, many of which are optional knowledge and viewed at your own leisure if you're interested in mythology, but not necessary for story comprehension. The visual novel overall has more text than the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy, so a lot of the non-critical information gets cut out in adaptations. Most Fate adaptations, even acclaimed ones like Fate/Zero, do not have time to explain some of the details of how certain conceptual abilities work, such as how Rather than not having the time for many explanations its more like they deemed it unnecessary or not top priority--why they believe that, I will never understand. Actually its probably not that complicated. Action and sex sells. Information dumps don't? But that just seems like an excuse to me, there's ways to give out key info without it being overbearing. Thanks for the info tho. I do remember reading a bit of the UBW VN (or a summary of it). |
Moekou said: Woodfall said: Karna - Biggest bad ass in the show imo and wow is he OP. He actually had them save his old masters even though he wasnt their servanr anymore! He fights his opponents with honor and wishes Sieg the best when he is defeated. Probably my favorite servant in this show and now it is sad to see him go. And my final thought. What the fuck is Shakespeare going to do to Jeanne??? Its really got me thinking about what he did to Frankenstein and very interested in what he will do to Jeanne. Tbh im surprised he made it this far into the show and for him to be the final servant she faces is very intriguing. Hyped for this altercation it better be good even though i can see a generic “Sieg saves her from her bad dream” ending to it. Karna is someone Gilgamesh acknowledged he'd have to go all-out against. He's sort of a foil for Gilgamesh, who looks down on the weak and hoards all treasures, while Karna is known as the Hero of Charity, willing to give even his most prized possessions away to beggars. No idea what's gonna happen with Shakespeare, but it should be noted that Jeanne has EX Rank Magic Resistance, being a Ruler and all. Saber was able to negate magic from a top-tier Age of the Gods witch with A rank in UBW, so Shakespeare shouldn't be able to do much to Jeanne directly with magic. Dang I didnt know that. That just makes it even worse that Sieg defeated him then! Hmm they seemed to be hyping up that Shakespeare is a bad match for Jeanne but i didnt think of that magic resistance. Wonder what will happen then |
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| Finally another exciting episode! Loved the animation too. The whole Jack the Ripper part was so lackluster to me that I struggled to enjoy the series since it started, even if it's mostly the characters I enjoy in Fate in general. And Achilles being a big damn hero these past two episodes. No wonder I saw so much fanart with him and Atalante, that was really beautiful at the end. Inugirlz said: That wasn't the only ridiculous "quick fix" in their fight. How did that Megane get on the hanging gardens (?) where Karna and Sieg were fighting, when we last saw him on the plane with his sister as Chiron disappeared? He found the red masters fairly quickly too. But it’s absolutely ridiculous that the injured Rider was able to make it just in the nick of time to save Sieg from a situation where he so obviously should have perished. I’m calling bullshit. Even if they explained how Rider got there so fast, the fact of the matter is using that “just in the nick of time” trope to save Sieg is a cop out. |
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| That was a fantastic episode in terms of the animation! I wonder what the budget for something like this was. It's a shame that the other elements of the show doesn't match the production value that is put into it. |
| Animation went totally SHAFT on us. Soly Hhit! I felt sorry for Atalanta, though. Jack The Ripper's backstory had gotten to her too hard. Mordred and Shishigou are a no-show in this episode. I was still rooting for Sieg as well. |
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| the animation was great, too bad the directing and story is still shit. |
| N.etorare T.echnical R.esearcher |
| Shitty plot armor, meh animation. Renew my rate 2/10. Ma boy Karna lose to trashtolfo and Shietg |
| had such kill la kill vibes waching fightscees... |
| dank meme |
| Garbage. I'm thouroughly disgusted by the shit quality of this episode. I'm taken aback by it, it's really bad. Just smacking in a division of animators doesn't mean you can skip every 2 frames and change styles in seconds. It was a blend of everything which just makes it really bad. If you liked this, then you must "enjoy" modern art and all that artsy ugliness that looks like a random piss of paint on blank paper. This was really bad to watch. |
| You know I like spicy foods, I like sweets, ice cream, many kinds of alcohol. I like sweet and sour chinese cuisine, I like chicken, burgers, pizza, hot dogs, chocolate, fruit. BUT I DON'T THROW IT ALL IN ONE POT, MIX IT AND TRY TO DIGEST IT IN ONE GULP. This is at least what this ep felt like. |
MarlyTT said: Jalter said: I can't believe I saw a Fate series. This was, simply, the worst episode animation I've ever seen in my life. Neither series from 1900's are so bad. I didn't understand what that was. Free-lancer work? There was no time to make a decent animation? Was it by style? Did Type-moon want it to be like this? I had been disagreeable since the beginning of the series, with some scenes poorly worked, but today, I was disgusted to watch, it was horrible for me as a fan. That's because you don't understand what "animation" means. dont ever judge just by one frame this is 2d not 3d animation also we going to get another carnival phantasm , cant wait for it with fgo theme with a little bit of school life and animated by ufotable |
| Enjoyable episode, sad to see Karna go, but he went out like a bro. The art style change was a bit weird, and I'm guessing they did it because Karna is absurdly overpowered, but it was still awkward and undermines Karna's power in a way for the viewer in a way. This anime would be much better if they explained the mythology of the characters to the viewers. Along with how Karna's personality played a role in his defeat, similar to Gilgamesh vs Shirou. |
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| Right now we all know why every single episode before this episode went bad... BECAUSE ALL THE MONEY goes to this episode i never felt a battle in anime that so long and so satisfying FULL ALL OUT WAR !!! karna is OP... tell me if im wrong |
EtoileSosso said: Oh damn the animation and art style change was weird.... In a positive way. I don't understand why some call it terrible. Okay, it is different from what we had seen before but if we look at it in an objective way, it is one great animation. Btw, this Karna vs Sieg fight should be crowned best fight of the year. I have seen many of these but only a few could surpass this one. yea definitely people calling it terrible or outright bad dont know much about animation lol if you look at the works of mob psycho or even kill la kill these certain types of rough animation without much cell shading, mainly just flat colors with little shading always focus primarily on that raw animation aesthetic whenever you see that shit from a capable studio just know its about to get LIT , and someone was talking about the names of the animators behind this eps man i bet it was packed i need to check to see also rewatch this fight again in higher hd |
| I know a lot of people are saying it was great animation or whatever, but to me if the animation is distracting and makes me pay more attention to it then the story and whats going on then they've failed as animators. In what should have been a great episode, I was more focused on the animation and how different it looked then what was actually going on. Animation is something you shouldn't be thinking about, it just adds to the story. Was the animation good in a vacuum? Yeah. But this kinda artsy animation works better in an anime short to show at a festival then randomly changing the complete artstyle to accommodate it in the middle of an established TV series. Kitoge said: background art was ridiculously poor This also really bugged me. Its like they teleported out of the places they were fighting previously into these big open areas of nothingness. Like when Atalanta and Achilles fought, they were just flying at eachother for miles for some reason... where'd all that space come from? And they didn't have any kind of backgrounds either. |
RyanSaotomeDec 12, 2017 3:09 AM
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| Great episode, but I think Red Rider Achilles sold out his team big time. Not only did he give up one of his weapons to the trap girl, but also stopped Red Archer Atalanta from killing Ruler. This will probably play a big deal in the finishing episodes if Amakusa Shirou's faction loses. On the other hand Red Lancer Karna was based to the end, dude was fighting 3 people. |
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| I don't care that much about animation If you just ignore the animation, the fights here feel more intense and better than the one from fate/stay night UBW. Karna vs sieg fight was so amazing !!! A-1 probably does not have big budget for this anime because it is not popular like the overrated fate/stay night. When A-1 has good budget for anime they can produce amazing animation like SAO2 |
thepathDec 12, 2017 5:44 AM
| WHAT A FUCKING BEYOND GODLIKE ANIMATION HOLY SHIT MY EYES. RIP Karna... The best servant on this series is defeated by some half-assed Siegfried/Sieg plus fucking Astolfo. This episode made me really love Karna more. Karna GOAT. |
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RyanSaotome said: I know a lot of people are saying it was great animation or whatever, but to me if the animation is distracting and makes me pay more attention to it then the story and whats going on then they've failed as animators. In what should have been a great episode, I was more focused on the animation and how different it looked then what was actually going on. Animation is something you shouldn't be thinking about, it just adds to the story. Was the animation good in a vacuum? Yeah. But this kinda artsy animation works better in an anime short to show at a festival then randomly changing the complete artstyle to accommodate it in the middle of an established TV series. This is one of the most retarded things I've read in this thread. I honestly can't believe the bullshit you people write to justify your reasoning that the episode was badly animated. You have industry veterans who have nothing to do with Fate, come and praise the episode because of the outstanding animation. You think you know more than them? Just say you don't like this particular style of animation because it doesn't suit your preferences instead of calling the animators a failure. |
Z4KDec 12, 2017 7:12 AM
| Episode 21: amazing animation Episode 22: wtf? Naruto vs Pain quality animation They completely wasted the chance to make an awesome fight episode and made this thing... I hope that the remaining three episodes won't get this quality bullshit. Also, I wonder how dreadful Shakespeare will be in the next episode, since so far he was pretty much useless. |
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Inugirlz said: I'm so fed up. I know it's the usual thing that happens in anime but Sieg's side is receiving too much of what I call Protagonist Status! All this damn special treatment! The Red side literally would've mopped the floor with the Black side if things went straight. So many times Red had the upper hand and then Black got some special treatment. And it's not even like the Black side is morally better, um hello the Yggme-whatevers- mass produce homunculi and throw them away like garbage. Had multiple psycho masters (the kid, that pink haired chick, that green haired chick etc) But really I'm just salty because Karna totally should've won. He had the graciousness to even give Sieg an excuse for allowing his servant to help. Hell nah, he cheated during an honourable one-on-one battle that Karna already gave a handicap for. Y U DO THIS KARNA!!! Meh, he has happier that way. Didn't really care about the cause or winning, he just wanted to do his own shit. I understand, but still wish he was given the OP status/results he deserved. Such a polite, awesome servant. Other things to note: Atlanta is a crazy bitch and I hate how Achilles went down with her. Like again, another servant that could've been mopping the floor with someone else from the Black side but decided being a hero was more important xD (Well it is but still) Also I know Rider is everypersonunderthesun's best girl (guy!) but c'mon he should be dead by now. Literally he's still just here for plot/fan service purposes. I know it's too much to ask for because PLOT, but I seriously want Caster to end Ruler. And no I don't want Sieg, Mordred or ANY OTHER PERSON TO COME TO HER DAMN RESCUE I've been looking through comment after comment searching for someone, ANYONE, to agree that the writing is going absolutely downhill just to accommodate the "cool" protagonists. I'm alright with Red Team losing due to smart play from Black Team... but throwing out NP and Command Seal after another with no consequences, having Red members switch sides, and having Ruler (the neutral servant) basically ruin everything is just too much for me. Alfonso is a GREAT character and he was a total badass. AND HE SHOULD HAVE DIED taking out the defenses for his team. Likewise, if Sieg had died stopping Karna and providing Ruler a chance to protect the Grail, I would have been totally okay with his random OPness. If Sieg and Ruler had not been in the anime, I feel like its other Servants would have had better character development and the tension would have been much higher. We already all know how this will end because every encounter always goes in Ruler and Sieg's favour. |
| wow, the quality drop are very notable. it's like watching Naruto VS Pain all over again. Karna is my fav hero in this series, and yet he defeated by a mere homoculous. what a joke. why Achilles suddenly switch sides!? am I the only one here that actually wishes for Amakusa Shirou to win the war? Somehow I can see Achilles have a feelings toward Atlanta, are they have some history in the past? where's Mordred? What's the true power of Shakespeare? |
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