Is it a plothole or am I just being dense?

Aug 20, 2024 11:12 AM

#2

Zarutaku

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Sep 2016

13641

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_paradox

Aug 20, 2024 11:30 AM

#3

itzswxzy

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Dec 2022

329

habib_kun said:
I have finished watching Steins;Gate for the second time today. I didn't notice it on my first watch. I will try to explain my confusion through an example.

In order to reach the beta worldline, Okabe had to undo all the D-mails. For instance, Rukako sent a message to her mother's pager telling her to eat plenty vegetables. As a result, Rukako became a girl. To undo this, Okabe sent another message to Rukako's mother's pager. His mother thought the previous message to be prank and he is a guy now. My question is, couldn't Okabe sent a D-mail to himself(Okabe) telling him to never allow Rukako to send the first D-mail? It is same for other D-mails as well.

What am I misunderstanding here?

I mean yes and no? Its sorta an intrinsic plot hole or contradiction if that makes sense. In a media revolving around time travel sci fi, most of the time you will find a paradox or two occurring.

Aug 20, 2024 11:32 AM

#4

Hickykissy

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Apr 2023

427

it's not possible cause it will occur a time paradox. Don't worry u just don't have enough IQ to understand steins gate because u never listen to your psychics teacher just like me.

Aug 20, 2024 12:09 PM

#5

Cawambar

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Apr 2021

123

No I don't think this will work. Once they sent the dmail on rukako's mom pager, they shift to another worldline. In this new worldline, Okabe did not send a dmail to rukako's mom. The dmail comes from the prevoious worldline. This is also why the other lab members don't remember Okabe sending a dmail. I might be mistaken somewhere but this is my interpretation after having watched this anime 3 or 4 times.

Aug 20, 2024 12:19 PM

#6

watsym

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Mar 2023

795

From what I remember, the event of sending the d mail doesn’t exist once the timeline changed, only the result. This is because in the new timeline there would be no reason to send the d-mail, as it’s result already happened.
That’s why in episode 1 the sender doesn’t have the message, only the receiver has it. The d mail has time traveler, but the event of sending doesn’t happen in the new timeline, only in the previous one.
You have say a timeline A send the message, at that time timeline A is deleted and what happens after the message is received doesn’t have to happen again. The message will still exist because it already time travelled to timeline B, but the cause doesn’t exist.
Instead of a deterministic timeline, it’s a non-causal one, where an event only has to happen in one timeline and the past is changed.

Aug 20, 2024 12:26 PM

#7

its_Chilly

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Jul 2023

25

I think it might cause something like a grandfather paradox?
Tho it’s been a really long while since I watched Steins gate so I don’t really remember much

its_ChillyAug 23, 2024 7:41 AM

Aug 20, 2024 1:48 PM

#8

killzone3abc

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Jan 2021

105

Cawambar said:
No I don't think this will work. Once they sent the dmail on rukako's mom pager, they shift to another worldline. In this new worldline, Okabe did not send a dmail to rukako's mom. The dmail comes from the prevoious worldline. This is also why the other lab members don't remember Okabe sending a dmail. I might be mistaken somewhere but this is my interpretation after having watched this anime 3 or 4 times.

this is how i remember it as well

Aug 20, 2024 4:36 PM

#9

Bolona07

Online

Jul 2023

326

habib_kun said:
I have finished watching Steins;Gate for the second time today. I didn't notice it on my first watch. I will try to explain my confusion through an example.

In order to reach the beta worldline, Okabe had to undo all the D-mails. For instance, Rukako sent a message to her mother's pager telling her to eat plenty vegetables. As a result, Rukako became a girl. To undo this, Okabe sent another message to Rukako's mother's pager. His mother thought the previous message to be prank and he is a guy now. My question is, couldn't Okabe sent a D-mail to himself(Okabe) telling him to never allow Rukako to send the first D-mail? It is same for other D-mails as well.

What am I misunderstanding here?

I’m guessing he just never thought of that

Aug 20, 2024 5:31 PM

#10

Alchemist_Senpai

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Feb 2022

104

That’s a good point, I respect your attention to detail.
I definitely would not have thought of that, but maybe it’s because I watched all of steins gate as well as the specials in one day ahahah.

Aug 20, 2024 5:40 PM

#11

Domukelis

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Nov 2023

15

Cawambar said:
No I don't think this will work. Once they sent the dmail on rukako's mom pager, they shift to another worldline. In this new worldline, Okabe did not send a dmail to rukako's mom. The dmail comes from the prevoious worldline. This is also why the other lab members don't remember Okabe sending a dmail. I might be mistaken somewhere but this is my interpretation after having watched this anime 3 or 4 times.

yup that's correct

Aug 20, 2024 5:59 PM

#12

SciADV_Maniac

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May 2016

1358

Cawambar said:
No I don't think this will work. Once they sent the dmail on rukako's mom pager, they shift to another worldline. In this new worldline, Okabe did not send a dmail to rukako's mom. The dmail comes from the prevoious worldline. This is also why the other lab members don't remember Okabe sending a dmail. I might be mistaken somewhere but this is my interpretation after having watched this anime 3 or 4 times.

watsym said:
From what I remember, the event of sending the d mail doesn’t exist once the timeline changed, only the result. This is because in the new timeline there would be no reason to send the d-mail, as it’s result already happened.
That’s why in episode 1 the sender doesn’t have the message, only the receiver has it. The d mail has time traveler, but the event of sending doesn’t happen in the new timeline, only in the previous one.
You have say a timeline A send the message, at that time timeline A is deleted and what happens after the message is received doesn’t have to happen again. The message will still exist because it already time travelled to timeline B, but the cause doesn’t exist.
Instead of a deterministic timeline, it’s a non-causal one, where an event only has to happen in one timeline and the past is changed.

The correct answers, OP. The rest are BS

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Aug 20, 2024 7:08 PM

#13

certifiedbinger

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Jan 2021

1884

The whole point was to get back to the original timeline by crossing '1' on the divergence meter.
Sending more DMails will only make things worse, even if he's trying to undo the damage, it was pretty obvious.
Im surpised at how many people here think this is a legitimate plot hole, like were y'all even watching? DMails essentially ruined his life, and you think sending more was going to help?

Aug 20, 2024 8:09 PM

#14

xZabuzax

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Nov 2016

3671

Reply to certifiedbinger

The whole point was to get back to the original timeline by crossing '1' on the divergence meter.
Sending more DMails will only make things worse, even if he's trying to undo the damage, it was pretty obvious.
Im surpised at how many people here think this is a legitimate plot hole, like were y'all even watching? DMails essentially ruined his life, and you think sending more was going to help?

@certifiedbinger To be fair, D-Mails indeed ruined Okabe's life, but it also helped him recover his life back, to fix things up, he needed to send more D-Mails to undo the previous D-Mails.

So essentially, sending more D-Mails did help =)

Aug 20, 2024 8:40 PM

#15

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562326

Alchemist_Senpai said:
That’s a good point, I respect your attention to detail.
I definitely would not have thought of that, but maybe it’s because I watched all of steins gate as well as the specials in one day ahahah.

I noticed many new things on my second watch. Still, I am sure there are many things that I haven't noticed. I think I will try taking notes on my next rewatch.

Aug 21, 2024 12:48 AM

#16

ORV_Omar

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Apr 2024

90

I think if he sends that message to himself he would have to undo it later on again so it's better to send it directly to the mother

Aug 21, 2024 5:12 AM

#17

ANIk_003

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Sep 2022

613

watsym said:
From what I remember, the event of sending the d mail doesn’t exist once the timeline changed, only the result. This is because in the new timeline there would be no reason to send the d-mail, as it’s result already happened.
That’s why in episode 1 the sender doesn’t have the message, only the receiver has it. The d mail has time traveler, but the event of sending doesn’t happen in the new timeline, only in the previous one.
You have say a timeline A send the message, at that time timeline A is deleted and what happens after the message is received doesn’t have to happen again. The message will still exist because it already time travelled to timeline B, but the cause doesn’t exist.
Instead of a deterministic timeline, it’s a non-causal one, where an event only has to happen in one timeline and the past is changed.

My exact understanding is summerized here. 👆

Aug 21, 2024 6:11 AM

#18

Wizzyard

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Nov 2021

67

well you can think about it this way, what if the dmail that he sends in addition to stop himself diverge the time line to another one thats not the betaline but even deeper in the alpha line? The only risk free way to go at it is to undo all the events and return back to the original time line (take this with a grain of salt i dont remember much of sg)

Aug 21, 2024 5:20 PM

#19

Natedog22

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Apr 2023

73

habib_kun said:
I have finished watching Steins;Gate for the second time today. I didn't notice it on my first watch. I will try to explain my confusion through an example.

In order to reach the beta worldline, Okabe had to undo all the D-mails. For instance, Rukako sent a message to her mother's pager telling her to eat plenty vegetables. As a result, Rukako became a girl. To undo this, Okabe sent another message to Rukako's mother's pager. His mother thought the previous message to be prank and he is a guy now. My question is, couldn't Okabe sent a D-mail to himself(Okabe) telling him to never allow Rukako to send the first D-mail? It is same for other D-mails as well.

What am I misunderstanding here?

Both are valid solutions to the problem, so it really doesn’t matter in my eyes which solution the writers had Okabe employ. Maybe it’s a slightly more complicated solution than necessary but it’s not a plot hole

Aug 21, 2024 5:50 PM

#20

Gwennyn

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Mar 2022

264

this comment section is dense lol, don't listen to any of these explanations. it isn't complicated at all. when okabe sends a dmail, it shifts the worldline. this means that in the worldline okabe lands in, he never sent the dmail. it was only received by the person he sent it to in the old worldline. which means he can't tell himself not to, because he literally didn't do it in the first place.

Aug 21, 2024 11:34 PM

#21

Buny0058

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Nov 2022

930

Gwennyn said:
this comment section is dense lol, don't listen to any of these explanations. it isn't complicated at all. when okabe sends a dmail, it shifts the worldline. this means that in the worldline okabe lands in, he never sent the dmail. it was only received by the person he sent it to in the old worldline. which means he can't tell himself not to, because he literally didn't do it in the first place.

Exactly. I was looking for this explaination and i’m glad somebody had it.

Aug 22, 2024 12:11 AM

#22

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562326

man, I was being so dumb. It's so simple. In the worldline where Rukako is a girl, she never sent a message to her mother. How can Okabe stop her when she didn't send the message in the first place?

Aug 22, 2024 12:11 AM

#23

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562326

Gwennyn said:
this comment section is dense lol, don't listen to any of these explanations. it isn't complicated at all. when okabe sends a dmail, it shifts the worldline. this means that in the worldline okabe lands in, he never sent the dmail. it was only received by the person he sent it to in the old worldline. which means he can't tell himself not to, because he literally didn't do it in the first place.

yes, you're right. Thank You

Aug 22, 2024 12:12 AM

#24

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562326

Cawambar said:
No I don't think this will work. Once they sent the dmail on rukako's mom pager, they shift to another worldline. In this new worldline, Okabe did not send a dmail to rukako's mom. The dmail comes from the prevoious worldline. This is also why the other lab members don't remember Okabe sending a dmail. I might be mistaken somewhere but this is my interpretation after having watched this anime 3 or 4 times.

you're right. I understand now

Dec 3, 2024 10:24 AM

#25

BigBoyAdvance

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Jan 2007

1903

So it's like this: the mail was sent in worldline X, but it was received only in worldline Y. I guess?
I've got several questions that I don't think the anime answers. When Okabe sends a dmail, does his memory get copied to the divergent worldline? Or does it get sent there and disappears from the previous world? What happens to the previous Okabe? Does he die, does he live? Does he realize that he managed to change the future, but in another timeline? Does simply nothing happen in the old timeline and Okabe doesn't know if he succeeded? If so, does he continue sending more dmails, thus creating more timelines and more copies of his memory? It all sounds terribly problematic. It would be much easier if only 1 timeline could exist at a time, and when Okabe sends a dmail a new timeline is created while the old one gets deleted. Or the old one gets deactivated while a new one is activated. I don't fucking know man.

Dec 4, 2024 2:29 AM

#26

SciADV_Maniac

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May 2016

1358

Reply to BigBoyAdvance

So it's like this: the mail was sent in worldline X, but it was received only in worldline Y. I guess?
I've got several questions that I don't think the anime answers. When Okabe sends a dmail, does his memory get copied to the divergent worldline? Or does it get sent there and disappears from the previous world? What happens to the previous Okabe? Does he die, does he live? Does he realize that he managed to change the future, but in another timeline? Does simply nothing happen in the old timeline and Okabe doesn't know if he succeeded? If so, does he continue sending more dmails, thus creating more timelines and more copies of his memory? It all sounds terribly problematic. It would be much easier if only 1 timeline could exist at a time, and when Okabe sends a dmail a new timeline is created while the old one gets deleted. Or the old one gets deactivated while a new one is activated. I don't fucking know man.

@BigBoyAdvance Your guess is correct. Worldlines are not parallel and they are not branching out of each other either. Only 1 worldline is active at any given time, the rest are existing only as quantum mechanical pro abilities.

This is clarified in the visual novel which is the source material, and also further deepened in the rest of the Science Adventure franchise

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